[shark]

A decent mix of society at school is the best way to grow up in my opinion but this is another story and way off topic really.

 

Even at undiverse schools kids form cliques so in the round are diverse schools a positive multicultural melting pot experience or in reality internally fragmented reflecting divisions in society which can furthermore cause problems with education and schooling especially where their are a number of languages.

[johnx2]

Kerouac or Molly Bloom?

[Jaspersharpe]

Even at undiverse schools kids form cliques so in the round are diverse schools a positive multicultural melting pot experience or in reality internally fragmented reflecting divisions in society which can furthermore cause problems with education and schooling especially where their are a number of languages.

Yes I find it better when people can speak English properly. 

[shark]

Even at undiverse schools kids form cliques so in the round are diverse schools a positive multicultural melting pot experience or in reality internally fragmented reflecting divisions in society which can furthermore cause problems with education and schooling especially where their are a number of languages.

Yes I find it better when people can speak English properly. 

 

[SA Chris]

I'm not even sure undiverse is a word?

Anyway, this sounds dangerously like a thread that could become political, and I'm not an expert so I won't comment.

[Jaspersharpe]

Seriously, what I meant was that I reckon you get more of idea what real life is like and a more balanced view of society if you go to a school where there are kids from a variety of backgrounds.

We specifically moved away from where we previously lived because we didn't want our son going to a school where the majority of the teachers efforts were put into zoo keeping and teaching kids to speak English.

Just so we're clear.

[SA Chris]

What diversity are we talking about anyway; purely ethnical, or including social, financial, religious, gender, areas of interest, etc etc etc.

[Jaspersharpe]

I just answered that in my previous post. God, people on here are so thick.

[rich d]

Disclaimer to the mods - I'm not a teacher or a social scientist - feel free to delete my post.last year we moved from an area with a primary that had zero diversity apart from 3 kids from a travelling background, everyone else was british white(pinxton near mansfield)to an area that is more diverse (west bridgford nottingham). However we didn't do it to make our kids into better/socially aware humans. We did it so that our kids went to a school with better sats, higher expectations, better teachers and peers with higher expectations in life, as all decisions about my own children this was a totally selfish decision of what we believe will give them the best options (which probably means better exam results to us). (I'm sure this puts us into the "burbs" or "twats" category according to the where to live in sheffield thread)

[SA Chris]

I just answered that in my previous post. God, people on here are so thick.

I wasn't talking to you, I was asking the OP. It's all me me me me me with you isn't it

[shark]

I just answered that in my previous post. God, people on here are so thick.

I wasn't talking to you, I was asking the OP. It's all me me me me me with you isn't it

  Ask Jasper, it was his quote 

[Durbs]

It's a tricky one - kids when young are probably at their most open/tolerant to meeting people of different backgrounds, but equally playground politics can be brutal.

As you all probably now know I'm in the seedy ghetto of Surrey. Half of my primary and all of my secondary school was in Surrey and I can't actually recall having any black kids in my class throughout this. A few Asian & Indian mates, but no african/afro-carribean ones.
It was a comp school, so had a fair range of kids from the various strata of social classes.
However I'm fairly certain this didn't turn me into a massive bigot.

Personally, I don't think diversity at school leads to a greater world-view, i think this comes down almost entirely to the parents and possibly peers (and thus their friends' parents)

[tomtom]

Vaguely related...

Working in a University - I believe that one of the (often unsung) benefits of going to University - is moving from a.n.other small town to a melting pot of all sorts of races, beliefs, orientations, substances and other stuff.... In other words diversity. This, I think, is certainly a good thing.

[Jaspersharpe]

I am really confused. Jasper has moved to a better school catchment area for his kids' benefit but is now experiencing a moment of self-doubt as he realises he has turned into yet another hypocritical middle-class wanker <or insert some other standard ukb terminology>. Is that correct?

No, no moment of self doubt. I've always been a middle class wanker.

[SA Chris]

Well all of my schooling I was at a more narrow a spectrum diversity speaking then could be experienced just about anywhere; all white European descent, all English speaking and I don't think it benefitted my education in the slighest, nor harmed my view of society. As it was the kids were as uncontrollable as you could imagine in spite of regular canings, cliques formed everywhere and bullying was rife.

[Jaspersharpe]

No not at all. The schools we moved to get away from weren't diverse as such, they were just shit.

Where he is now is a much better school but it also has kids from lots of varying backgrounds, which I like.

Like rich d this was of course purely a selfish decision based on the fact that we believe he will get a better education where he is.

Also, the sprog is almost certainly clever enough to pass the scholorship exams for the local public school but I wouldn't send him there because I don't think school is all about exam results, primary school especially.

Sorry I wasn't being clear was just trying to point out that my idea of diverse probably wasn't what shark was thinking it was. 

[johnx2]

ok as I started with a cheap shot (should have mentioned Proust) here's an attempt at a constructive post a la recherche du spit-bombs perdu...

I went to inner city(ish) comps and am surprised when I see school photos that in all of them five or six classmates are black or asian. Didn't really think about this at the time. Kids tend not to in my experience - geeks are geeks / sporties sporties /trendies trendies, whatever (mentioning northern soul would date this...) We were late 20s before I asked my best mate thru secondary school anything about his erm, ethnic background).  Did I benefit beyond keepin' it real bragging rights? Dunno. On economic diversity, I certainly copped a hard time for being middle class, albeit I was a twat, and this was not successfully kicked out of me.

My kids were brought up in Hackney, going to a v good primary school (interest: my wife was chair of governors), 50 mother tongues, full of life.  We bailed to Ilkley as secondary school approached for our eldest, to find the local school a mediocre sea of  blond heads ala Midwich fucking Cuckoos.  Diversity = some kids don't have their own horse* My kids subsequent complacency-based educational performance let's say as kindly as I can,  is unlikely to have been worse had we stayed in London. I blame the parents**.

On the upside for me it meant the threat of promotion was greatly reduced and I got to climb after work, shitly, in the glamorous quarry and midge valley; break bones on a bike and basically lose it to surfing. Hey ho. The end.




*Real pub conversation: a guy I'd ridden with occasionally telling me his son got into yachting kind of inadvertently, after he'd noticed they'd got a spare yacht at the back of the garrage.

**Research I'm sure I could google, that'll probably be posted before I can finish typing this, apparently shows that it's all about parental involvement and expectations. Arse to that.

[Dolly]

Also, the sprog is almost certainly clever enough to pass the scholorship exams for the local public school but I wouldn't send him there because I don't think school is all about exam results, primary school especially.

I wouldn't asssume that is necessarily one of the main "alleged" benefits Jasper. Here's an interesting excerpt from an article by Robert Crampton from The Times (educated in a state school in Hull) about how, inter alia, private schools maybe one of the last bastions of a rounded education as state schools need to grade chase in order to stay where they are in the all important tables


Most of us — about 93 per cent of the British population — who didn’t go to private school have an image of them that, if it was ever accurate, is now woefully out of date. We think of Flashman, bullying, toffs, snobs, a narrow focus on rugby, rowing and Latin, braying voices, the old-boy network. We think of exam factories charged with coaching the sons and daughters of the old rich, or coating the children of the aspirational new rich with a veneer of culture. I shared this view, broadly, until about a decade ago.
Around that time, as I met more and more people who’d been to private school, it began to dawn on me that these places weren’t like that. Many had, rather, become the guardians of a liberal education ethos that was being eroded in state schools obsessed with chasing a higher place on the league table. I realised that if you send your children private, you’re buying privilege all right, but not necessarily the marginal privilege of an extra A star; more likely, the immensely more valuable privilege of a child enabled to develop whatever talent they have.

[Dolly]

Sorry I realise that is off topic

[andy_e]

Most of us — about 93 per cent of the British population — who didn’t go to private school have an image of them that, if it was ever accurate, is now woefully out of date. We think of Flashman, bullying, toffs, snobs, a narrow focus on rugby, rowing and Latin, braying voices, the old-boy network. We think of exam factories charged with coaching the sons and daughters of the old rich, or coating the children of the aspirational new rich with a veneer of culture. I shared this view, broadly, until about a decade ago.

That's my experience of private schools from someone who went to one...

[tomtom]

Robert Crampton from The Times (educated in a state school in Hull Willerby)

(though it may well be as comprehensive an experience as one of the city schools)

[Dolly]

Sorry, I only read what he wroted

[tomtom]

Sorry, I only read what he wroted

Soz Dolly - that probably came across a bit arsey... I had a post lunch pedanticness fit.. (rather than a snooze)

[Dolly]

no worries 

[Johnny Brown]

Most of us — about 93 per cent of the British population — who didn’t go to private school have an image of them that, if it was ever accurate, is now woefully out of date. We think of Flashman, bullying, toffs, snobs, a narrow focus on rugby, rowing and Latin, braying voices, the old-boy network. We think of exam factories charged with coaching the sons and daughters of the old rich, or coating the children of the aspirational new rich with a veneer of culture. I shared this view, broadly, until about a decade ago.

That's my experience of private schools from someone who went to one...

I went to 3 private schools over the years, and know lots of others who did. In my experience the above types represent a fairly tiny minority, albeit one who seem to have a knack of getting into power. I suspect you and others will have met plenty of others without realising - its not something most, bar the above stereotype, tend to advertise. I've had enough folk label me a cunt before I'd had chance to speak that I soon learnt to keep quiet about it. Given recent posts this feels a bit like coming out...

Diversity was I guess fairly limited though mainly by intelligence due to strict entry exams. That means the old-money nice-but-dim type are entirely absent, but full-fee scholarships are open to anyone. Culturally they are perhaps more diverse than you might expect; boarding schools particularly are full of overseas students on government scholarships nowadays, mainly from the 'tiger' economies, but again, they are entirely based on intelligence not privilege - i.e. there was a kid in my science class who grew up in a 'mud hut' in Malaysia. The majority though, are middle class Caucasians for sure.

Despite the entry requirements my secondary school was never that fussed about league tables. Exactly as described in Dolly's quote it was all more about individual potential/ small class sizes/ range of sports etc, (though all told they were pretty keen on Oxbridge entrants). The stinking rich are not the majority, most parents were hard working types trying to better their kids prospects. My Dad has always been keen to point out that he worked damn hard for it, and my education is the only form of inheritance I can expect.