[bubbles]

Hello,

I tried to post this on cocktalk, but after three replies thought I might get better answers on a website where people actually climb...

Anyway...

Me and two mates are going to head to California for ten weeks later this year.

We plan to leave the UK around August 20 and leave the US around Nov 1.

We'd like to spend a fair amount of time in Yosemite and Tuolumne, but there are plenty of other areas we'd like to visit, like Red Rocks and the High Sierra.

We are mainly interested in high quality trad routes up to E3/4, but also plan to do a fair bit of big walling whilst in the Valley.

We can afford to hire a car for a bit of trip, but not all of it. I get the impression that buying a car and selling it on at the end of the trip is more trouble than it is worth these days.

We'll all be 23, will that make car hire prohibitively expensive?

At the end of the trip two of us are going to continue on to Patagonia. Does anyone know of a cheap/free place we can leave a big bag full of alpine climbing gear securely for 10 weeks?

Can anyone who has spent a fair amount of time in the area suggest a good itinerary for us?

My current thoughts are along the lines of:
Fly to LA and hire a car.
Weeks 1-3: Spend in the Needles and visit the Incredible Hulk. It won't be quite as hot there then right?
Weeks 4-8: Get rid of the car and spend our time in Yosemite/Tuolumne
Weeks 9 & 10: Hire a car once more and visit Red Rocks, before ditching the car in Vegas and getting a Greyhound Bus back to LA to fly home/on. Red rocks won't be too hot then?

We'll be planning on camping for the whole trip this shouldn't be a problem should it?

Any dos, do nots and top tips to save money would be greatly appreciated.

Also how much would you expect living in the states to cost? We don't want to live a life of luxury, but equally we want enough money to afford decent food and to be able to do the occasional touristy thing when the weather is bad/we're knackered.

Cheers,

Tom

[SA Chris]

Your itinerary seems good, the high sierras at that time will be cooler than other places, but still fucking roasting. TBH if there are 3 of you there for 10 weeks you'd be daft not to buy a car. Assume you all have driver's licences and an address you can use it should be fairly easy to sort out. Just avoid buying in California if you can, you have emissions tests and stuff to take care of.

Otherwise a lot of questiosn you have asked have been answered here. http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,21295.0.html

As far as dumping kit goes, you could see if there is someone living in Bishop who might look after it for you? Ask on the supertopo website maybe? Or contact Wilson's http://eastsidesports.com/eastside/ and offer them a case of beer or something.

[slackline]

Thought this would be about Dinorwig.

Different time of year but this thread will be useful.

[SA Chris]

I'm a slow typist

[slackline]

You wrote more!

[Paul B]

I did think it might be useful to write some of this stuff up for the Wiki actually as I have now hassled an awful lot of people for useful information!

[andyd]

Buy a car. Not all of California requires a smog test, but certainly in areas where you'll get off the plane (most of the San J' valley). Not sure that this is such an issue now is it as most cars run better/cleaner. There aren't many left from the 80s are there? If so, don't buy it.

Tuolumne is not easy to get to from The valley without a car. You'll need to take lots of stuff as it gets super cold up there at night. I made the mistake of biviing up there one night. My skin hurt inside a gortex bag and sleeping bag.

I've been to a fair few sport crags and lots of bouldering venues in the western states if you want to pm me about that, I'll answer any qs.

[T_B]

Looks like a good plan. I've climbed in the Needles and High Sierras in July and it was fine. Hot, but dry. Everyone bangs on about thunderstorms in the HS so be aware of that.

Yes, you want wheels for Tuolumne.

Make sure if you go to the Hulk, you get good beta on the walk-in. It is tricky and potentially epic if u go the wrong way (I speak from experience  )

[Sasquatch]

We can afford to hire a car for a bit of trip, but not all of it. I get the impression that buying a car and selling it on at the end of the trip is more trouble than it is worth these days.

We'll all be 23, will that make car hire prohibitively expensive?

Yes, if you can even find one.  Many hire car places won't rent to under 25yo., and if they do you pay a hefty premium.

I would expect to pay about $150-200/week total including taxes(for a compact which will be pretty tight for 3 plus gear).  So for 4 weeks you're looking at $600-800.  If you can buy a car for $1000, then you've got it the whole time, and you may even be able to sell it and get some back....  Cons-shitty old car vs. shiney new car...

At the end of the trip two of us are going to continue on to Patagonia. Does anyone know of a cheap/free place we can leave a big bag full of alpine climbing gear securely for 10 weeks?

Second the idea of hitting up Wilson's.

Can anyone who has spent a fair amount of time in the area suggest a good itinerary for us?

My current thoughts are along the lines of:
Fly to LA and hire a car.
Weeks 1-3: Spend in the Needles and visit the Incredible Hulk. It won't be quite as hot there then right?
Weeks 4-8: Get rid of the car and spend our time in Yosemite/Tuolumne
Weeks 9 & 10: Hire a car once more and visit Red Rocks, before ditching the car in Vegas and getting a Greyhound Bus back to LA to fly home/on. Red rocks won't be too hot then?

Car decision will drive the rest of itinerary.

We'll be planning on camping for the whole trip this shouldn't be a problem should it?

yes/no.  Yosemite valley has a time-limit on camping. Otherwise, should be good. 

Any dos, do nots and top tips to save money would be greatly appreciated.

Also how much would you expect living in the states to cost? We don't want to live a life of luxury, but equally we want enough money to afford decent food and to be able to do the occasional touristy thing when the weather is bad/we're knackered.

Although Yosemite is awesome and well worth it, it's pretty pricey, especially the food. 
I'd say on the thrifty side you could probably manage to average $10-15/day cost (camping, food, permits, etc.)
If you're not careful I'd guess in the range of $25-30/day.  Not counting car costs, flight, etc....

[SA Chris]

Another bonus of having your own car of a decent size is you can stock up on non-perishables at a supermarket (good Vons in Bishop) before you hit the Yosemite.

[Offwidth]

Hello,

I tried to post this on cocktalk, but after three replies thought I might get better answers on a website where people actually climb...

Pretty bold entrance that. Posts 4 and 5 were minutes after 3 and well intended. Don't damn the whole site because of some who live there (or make people think twice about trying to help next time).

[jwi]

Weeks 9 & 10: Hire a car once more and visit Red Rocks, before ditching the car in Vegas and getting a Greyhound Bus back to LA to fly home/on. Red rocks won't be too hot then?

I guess the long routes in Red rocks will very warm but basically OK in the end of October. I've only done Levitation 29 which is straight in the sun in the end of November and it was perfect weather wise.

[andyd]

Levitation 29 can be super cold in the wind on a cold November's day!

[tesla]

A friend of mine from work climbs all over Cali at the kinds of grades you mentioned, and often produces 'trip reports' which might give you the odd tip / some pictures for psyche etc, they're up at: http://valchev.net/peter/trips/index.html

e.g here's a quick write up with some pics of Positive Vibrations at the Hulk: http://valchev.net/peter/trips/pv2012/index.html

Red Rock should be alright in Nov, and there's always stuff you can do that's shaded anyway. The thing to note with California in general is that lots of it is basically desert, it can get really hot in the day and the temperature plummets at night.

Thunderstorms are a killer in the High Sierra, often rolling in during the afternoons out of the blue. It's easy to get yourself into trouble, so ignore the weather at your peril.

Lovers Leap at Tahoe is probably also worth a visit.

[tesla]

oh, and reading the thread over on the other channel you said you might get a camper van? There's no free camping in Yosemite National Park boundaries, but you can camp / park up for free not far from the park entrance at a place called Hardin Flats. From there it's about 30-40 mins driver into the park to the main valley floor / Camp 4 / El Cap, less to some other crags.

In fact anywhere you can find 'BLM' (Bureau of Land Management) owned forest / land you can camp for free, with some restrictions (e.g. fires, and being not visible from roads IIRC)

Coming out the other side of the park along Highway 120 (through Tuolumne via Tioga Pass) and down to the town of Lee Vining there's also BLM land / free camping, and places to get food (the Tioga Gas Station actually does really nice food - www.whoanellideli.com). It takes about 25-45 minutes to get up to Tuolumne, depending on where you sleep and your destination.

You probably want to stay in the park if you can, but these are good options when arriving / leaving or if you're just there for a short time, and camp site spots in the park are sometimes hard to come by. Don't try wild camping in the park, the rangers are on top of that, and will enjoy waking you up, fining you and making you pack up all your crap up at 2 in the morning. =)

[bubbles]

Cheers for all the helpful responses.

Does anyone know any thing about buy a car in LA/San Fran at the start of the trip and selling it on at the end?

Any idea how long this would take to do? And how easy/quick it would be to sell it at the end.

Cheers,

Tom

[Offwidth]

I'm pretty sure you need a california drivers licence these days to buy a car in California (foreign nationals can apply). I think there are complications in NV also. I'd go on Supertopo and ask about this if no one knows exact details here.

[Paul B]

Monkey Boy did this recently (bought in CA), one thing you need in CA is a 'smog' certificate.

If you post on Supertopo do you mind linking back here as I have similar questions?

[jmews]

I'm not sure whether or not you need a drivers license to purchase, but be sure to get the previous owner (if private) to smog the car before you buy it. This is common practice anyway, but a less than scrupulous buyer might try and take advantage and ask you to take on the certification. The problem then is that you cannot register the car without smogging it (emissions test), will be liable for the work needed to pass the test, and will not be able to sell the car until the it passes the test.

[tesla]

I'm pretty sure you need a CA licence before buying a car here, at least from a car dealer, not sure about private sales. You might also need one to insure it (i.e. the insurance company will require you to have one), and you need that before you can drive it anywhere.

The Department of Motor Vehicles is the CA local government body that does driving tests, issues licenses etc. You might be able to get in touch with them over the phone directly and get your questions answered. Their web site is at: http://www.dmv.ca.gov

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/buyinfo.htm and is their page on buying a car.

[jmews]

I was able to insure a car registered in CA with a uk license. I did have a CA license holder on the policy too, though.

[bubbles]

Cheers for all the tips so far.

If you post on Supertopo do you mind linking back here as I have similar questions?
[/quote]

Here is what the kind people of Supertopo have to say: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2040981/Brits-in-California-Where-to-go-in-what-order

Jim Donini give me beta... fucking Jim Donini! Legend.

[Offwidth]

Just finished reading that thread: some good stuff. Mind you, you've got a lot to live up to now, so no holding back and letting our nation's reputation down.

 "My advice is predicated on these Brit's being up to that standard, but it's nothing out of the ordinary to climb the Nose and NWF, on your first trip.

It was standard BITD, I remember, Moffat, Woody, Peter Donavan, Ron Fawcett, Sean Miles, Leo, Patch, Derek, etc, etc.

The Brit's having a long history of coming to the Valley and handing us a large smack down. The Grit and heads up trad leading, and just the basic boldness of the Brit's quickly (with a few tricks on hauling and jugging) translate to wall climbing. IMHO"

[Paul B]

Here is what the kind people of Supertopo have to say: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2040981/Brits-in-California-Where-to-go-in-what-order

Cheers, it looks fairly simple to buy a car then?