So you don't replace the Darius bolt, then what about Bastille. Do you not replace the bolts when they rot. Both these routes have the same history aid rpoutes with bolts that were later freed using the bolts for protection.Lyme Cryme has a diffrent history in that a new bolt was placed in order to climb it free. (The bolt was the Cryme, it also a play on the Gensis album Nursery Cryme)
Having gone out there these last few years looking at these 'problem' crags, I am increasingly of the opinion what we have is a deterioration of the climbing culture (not just popularity, reputation etc) of a route rather than the physical part.The last couple of years we've had 'reports' of High tor being retrobolted, and everyone shaking their heads with resignation. Now apparently its deserted and crumbling! If you were cynical you might think it was all designed to make it less offensive when it happens...
Above 3 climbed on gear recently. Grade/stars confirmed. Bolts still in (for now)
How did you find getting the old ones out? ... but I do reckon Debauchery etc would be better with a few less...
Some examples; crux of Flaky Wall - the current one has been there for about 25 years and still solid last time I passed it.
crux of Flaky Wall - the current one has been there for about 25 years and still solid last time I passed it
Chee Tor is probably the best limestone climbing around - but nobody climbs on it.
Look at the facts. All the best limestone cliffs in UK are mostly trad. Very rarely climbed on. Any crap that is bolted becomes popular.
There is very little good quality routes for beginners. UK climbers (mostly) lag behind the European ones. In the Peak, Chee Tor is probably the best limestone climbing around - but nobody climbs on it.Compare with Europe - good quality routes on excellent rock are all bolted from 4 .. 9a. All the cliffs are popular and kids aged 9 and upwards out climb most of the UK climbers.
If nobody is ever going to climb the routes on (for example) Chee Tor and with vegetation getting worse year on year what reason do we have not to bolt the routes.
In the past (before bolts were even thought of) people climbed the routes. Nowadays the FA has been long done and is written up. So for a bit of historical significance we exclude all the future climbers from these routes? If Chee Tor was discovered tomorrow I would guarantee it would be bolted.
I have climbed more new routes than most people and I get a satisfaction when people climb the lines I created. A line that is now unclimbable might as well never have been climbed in the first place.
Look at the facts. All the best limestone cliffs in UK are mostly trad. Very rarely climbed on.
There is very little good quality routes for beginners.
In the Peak, Chee Tor is probably the best limestone climbing around - but nobody climbs on it.
If nobody is ever going to climb the routes on (for example) Chee Tor and with vegetation getting worse year on year what reason do we have not to bolt the routes. In the past (before bolts were even thought of) people climbed the routes. Nowadays the FA has been long done and is written up. So for a bit of historical significance we exclude all the future climbers from these routes?