[Andy F]

Keith, what about Insomnia at Dinbren? Should be in condition for long periods over the winter, looks ace.

In Yorkshire there's always Climb of the Century on the upper tier at Malham (may go to 8a+ in the new guide - Adam?), a very sustained wall climb, or The Yorkshire Ripper at Kilnsey, which is super sustained technicality and climbs amazingly.

[Doylo]

Good one Andy, Insomnia - fairly reliable conditions, really good and soft for the grade.  And closer than Yorkshire!

[Adam Lincoln]

In Yorkshire there's always Climb of the Century on the upper tier at Malham (may go to 8a+ in the new guide - Adam?)

100% 8a+ in new guide.

[Doylo]

Lincoln downgrades something!

[ksjs]

But a 3 hour drive both ways every week isn't a hassle!!! You're bonkers Keith. You know all too well that N Wales conditions/tides ain't a problem when you're local, Kilnsey gets wet and Malham's often too hot.  I concede the 8b's here probably don't suit you though. I'd say Predator and get saving up that petrol money   

Yo Chris! I know what you're saying but there is some truth in the sense that it can get a bit tiring / frustrating waiting for tidal windows and non-greasy conditions to co-incide. Perhaps I'm just unreasonably impatient but it almost feels easier to get in the car and 'know' you're going to be able to get on the thing you want to try rather than getting down to LPT, warming up, getting clips in etc only to discover smeg. My thinking was that I'd head up for 2-3 days at a time so and if I set that against 3 return drives to The Orme (35 min for me each way) it maybe doesn't look so ridiculous.

The other thing, and this is probably the deciding factor, is that there just aren't many 8bs around here; excluding slate there are 7 I think:

Corinthian Groove
SUL Extension
Seagull's Dilemma
Melancholy
Youthanasia
The Brute
Temple of Gloom

Take out tidal and bouldery options and you're left with Corinthian Groove which I know nothing about (so maybe bouldery for all I know, is it an extension to Mr Whippy or something?) but I'm not really inspired enough by it to invest the time, not to mention that it can be pretty exposed there. Even if I did opt for tidal stuff I think there's quite a few folk who wouldn't question any of the routes mentioned at 8b+. So not ideal for a first 8b anyway.

Is 8b in fact a chink in North Wales' armour? 

I'm super keen for some Yorkshire action / mini-trips and Predator does sound / look very good - time to save those pennies.

[ksjs]

I'd say Youthanasia but it looks like it'll be getting upgraded

Obviously you can't really say from the ground but the last section looks the living end on that!

[chummer]

Serpent Vein: This could be the one Keith! 45 metres of beautiful dolerite, not at all conditiony (compared to LPT), close to home, one of the best 8b's in the country with a 'V8/9/font 7b+ crux'.  What are you waiting for!! This, the brute or Youthanasia will be my choice for my first 8b if it's going to be in N.Wales.
/quote]

I was just thinking the same thing....and it's only 10 mins from your house Keith, winter can be great on the slate eh, especially the friction on the dolerite, oooh....nice still day, rough dolerite, slightly overhanging, doable crux, Caff used to rave about the quality and it's still waiting for a second ascent....it's a no brainer!

[chummer]

quote, unquote...I am so shit with computers....

[ksjs]

Come to think of it Keith's said he's super keen to go back to Ocean of Emotion and Alberta Rose. Speaking of whom .....

As you know or at least can tell from this thread I like a bit of convenience sometimes (even if it's 3 hours away) so I was slightly dubious when Pete kidnapped me to belay him on Ocean of Emotion late this year; I had a go and it is gobsmackingly good, amazing position and perfect climbing, must be amongst the best at the grade in the country.   

Pete assures me that Aberta Rose is superb too, this will be top of my list when business starts again so it'll be getting done, sooner or later... Honestly everyone, get down there!

[ksjs]

Keith, what about Insomnia at Dinbren?

Hi Andy, Good thinking but consensus seems to be 8a+ on this and, if I'm being honest, I'm not really motivated by a few metres of climbing on the end of another route.

[ksjs]

Look at the options for N.Wales -

My point exactly! Hadn't read this when I replied to Chris but yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Don't get me wrong I really really want to do some of these: The Brute looks sensational, Melancholy (sp?) was made to be climbed and I might wet my pants if I got to the top of Serpent Vein (could be dank and depressing over winter in there though but certainly worth keeping in mind - not sure what my 7b+ strength will be like after x metres of technical slate [but it's not, it's dolerite!] ?)

Thanks all for thoughts and suggestions - will be looking for people to share the Yorkshire love so let me know if you're at a loose end and fancy a few days up there.

[Doylo]

 Stiff upper lip is classic,soft and non tidal.only problem with that one is the grease

[davej]

Seem to remember  there's a peg protected 8B in the ogwen valley somewhere???

[Andy F]

Keith, what about Insomnia at Dinbren?

Hi Andy, Good thinking but consensus seems to be 8a+ on this and, if I'm being honest, I'm not really motivated by a few metres of climbing on the end of another route.

It may well have been down at 8a+, but hold breakage on the route it starts up has pushed it back to 8b. The 'few metres of climbing' look amazing from the ground, with no let-up to the belay.

[Adam Lincoln]

Keith, what about Insomnia at Dinbren?

Hi Andy, Good thinking but consensus seems to be 8a+ on this and, if I'm being honest, I'm not really motivated by a few metres of climbing on the end of another route.

It may well have been down at 8a+, but hold breakage on the route it starts up has pushed it back to 8b. The 'few metres of climbing' look amazing from the ground, with no let-up to the belay.

That hold breakage doesn't make any difference, you get a rest before Insomnia proper anyway.

[JohnM]

I agree.  I'm can't decide whether it is soft 8b or hard 8a+ but the hold breakage is not really a factor.

[Doylo]

Matt Donnolley did it recently and reckoned soft 8b

[Doylo]

Corinthian Groove
SUL Extension
Seagull's Dilemma
Melancholy
Youthanasia
The Brute
Temple of Gloom

Seagulls is 8b+, same as W Mussel.  Youthanasia also is likely to get 8b+ as Pete gave Wild Youth 8b+ and there's no real difference. 
So that leaves, Stiff upper Lip, Melanchollie, The Brute, Temple of Gloom, The Hole Truth, The Mink, Carinthean Groove and 3 at Dinbren.

[holgerman]

Keith, what about Insomnia at Dinbren?

Hi Andy, Good thinking but consensus seems to be 8a+ on this and, if I'm being honest, I'm not really motivated by a few metres of climbing on the end of another route.

Who has actually done Insomnia to consent on it? Full Tilt felt easier maybe it is should get 8a in the new guide?

[JohnM]

Holger are you still even allowed on this forum  As far as I know it is only Rob Mirfin who thinks it might warrant 8a+.  Hardly a consensus unless there are quite a few other people I don't know about who also think 8a+.

[ksjs]

Holger are you still even allowed on this forum  As far as I know it is only Rob Mirfin who thinks it might warrant 8a+.  Hardly a consensus unless there are quite a few other people I don't know about who also think 8a+.

Maybe I was being a total idiot in taking the UKC logbook votes as anything meaningful but 4 out of 4 people apparently voted 8a+. In reality this could mean anything however, I could get my cat to vote, I could get friends to vote, I could use someone else's account to vote twice etc. Why would you do any of those things, people are strange though?

Apologies if I've upset anybody's pride 

[ksjs]

It may well have been down at 8a+, but hold breakage on the route it starts up has pushed it back to 8b. The 'few metres of climbing' look amazing from the ground, with no let-up to the belay.

I'm sure the climbing is good but it just doesn't inspire me in the same way as a fully independent, longer route does.

[RichK]

Holger are you still even allowed on this forum  As far as I know it is only Rob Mirfin who thinks it might warrant 8a+.  Hardly a consensus unless there are quite a few other people I don't know about who also think 8a+.

Maybe I was being a total idiot in taking the UKC logbook votes as anything meaningful but 4 out of 4 people apparently voted 8a+. In reality this could mean anything however, I could get my cat to vote, I could get friends to vote, I could use someone else's account to vote twice etc. Why would you do any of those things, people are strange though?

Apologies if I've upset anybody's pride 

Corrupt voting is a plausible explanation for Insomnia baring in mind the FA & the  UKC voting shenanigans for Grooved Arete (Kilnsey) around the same time . Didn't a certain Ex Yorks school teacher have his whole class register on UKC to downgrade GA following Insomnia FA'ist RP of said route  

[BenF]

Didn't a certain Ex Yorks school teacher have his whole class register on UKC to downgrade GA following Insomnia FA'ist RP of said route

       That is indeed what the certain ex teacher claims to have done.  An awesome bit of online heckling and exactly what the databases were designed to be used for...

[Serpico]

Didn't a certain Ex Yorks school teacher have his whole class register on UKC to downgrade GA following Insomnia FA'ist RP of said route

Urban myth. The truth about GA is that it's now significantly easier than when first done due to a small block coming off and leaving a good incut where previously there was only a little crimp in the middle of the crux.