Flash and worked grade - how do they relate? (Read 17926 times)

andybfreeman · January 24, 2011, 05:48:47 pm

For routes i am around the 4/5bang on a 5 grade gap - 6c on sight and 6c+ flash vs 7b+ RP.

I am shit at routes (reading, tactics etc) though

Sadly, as of yesterday my bouldering gap has increased to 4 grade - 6C+ vs 7B+. I think i struggle to give everything and concentrate on the moves on the flash. When I've worked the moves i can stop thinking about that and just try as hard as possible. Of course that's on font grades. things make less sense in V grades as it only looks like 3.5 grades (V5 - V8+) - yet another reason why V grades are shit

lukeyboy · January 24, 2011, 06:12:49 pm

My boulder worked/flash difference is zero (7a/7a)... I'm probably better than I am strong, good at reading routes, and I'm not very good at spending a long time working something. The thing is, the first I've done at that grade I've spent a lot of time and effort working (and some since), and then more recently flashed one/ done a few 2nd or 3rd go, but haven't made the transition up to worked 7b. Getting better at working a problem for a while (and the same for sport) is a big goal for this year...

ksjs · January 24, 2011, 07:10:17 pm

Quote from: Fiend on January 24, 2011, 05:32:35 pm

Edit: is this about bouldering?

yes but it seems to have gone interestingly off topic. it appears that the strength thing in bouldering (and no doubt the fact that there simply arent as many variables or moves that can be worked [save for maybe something really long which probably merits a route grade anyway] ) decreases any consistent / useful link between flashed and worked bouldering grades. having said that there does seem to be a few people mentioning a gap of 3-4 grades.

FWIW the gaps for me are:

- bouldering 4
- routes 4 without continental softness or 3 with (no accident everybodys best onsight is abroad...)

Andy F · January 24, 2011, 07:34:13 pm

Routes - 4 grade difference, bouldering - about the same. But we all know why...

petejh · January 24, 2011, 08:31:46 pm

Routes - 4 grades. Bouldering - 5 grades (V)/ 6 font.

jwi · January 24, 2011, 08:32:22 pm

Quote from: Serpico on January 24, 2011, 05:23:36 pm

Patxi's got a couple (more?) 8c+ onsights to his name, what's his hardest RP? 9a+? 2 grades difference.
I still reckon 3 grades for an all rounder.

I recon 3.5 grades. Patxi is not an all rounder of course, he is an on-sight specialist.

markwellin · January 24, 2011, 09:08:29 pm

I definately think it depends on what routes you generally try. Down here most hard routes are very cruxy. It was mentioned earlier that some hard 8 routes had a crux of v5-v7. I just did a 7c with a v7 crux.

Anyway my numbers are routes - 3 difference
Boulders -3
I've always heard it mentioned as 3 as the norm... And I'm gunna stick to it religiously

Eddies · January 24, 2011, 10:19:02 pm

I shockingly bad at sport so the difference is 5 grades. Finding my way up the chossy limestone crags i frequent and a partner wiling to belay me on my projects has been my major struggle so far

Bouldering, its more like 4grades difference 7a~7c

Doylo · January 25, 2011, 01:33:54 pm

3 for me but i haven't regularly onsighted for years. Personally i don't think onsighting means much in bouldering, its a flash or a redpoint.

chummer · January 25, 2011, 05:19:27 pm

My gap is 2 grades at best, 3 normally. 5 grade difference sounds a bit much to me and I do as much onsighting as redpointing sport wise and don't feel any weaker in either style really.

chummer · January 25, 2011, 05:23:48 pm

shit, just realised it's bouldering but the same applies as above.

AJM · January 25, 2011, 06:05:11 pm

I'm on 4 for routes, but its probably further towards 5 than towards 3. I'm not very good at onsighting, mainly because near me I find it easier to get inspired by harder redpoints than mid-grade onsights.

Sidehaas · January 25, 2011, 07:34:10 pm

Difference of 2 for sport grades (6c / 7a) and 3 for bouldering (6b+ / 7a).

Teaboy · January 26, 2011, 08:42:16 am

Quote from: markwellin on January 24, 2011, 09:08:29 pm

I just did a 7c with a v7 crux.

What route was that, just so I know to avoid, and is that typical of the area?

For me there is only a grade or two difference between my flash and worked grade for boulder problems, this partly becuase I don't spend as long working problems as I do routes but also there are obviously fewer alternatives so the chance of hitting it right first time are much higher on a boulder than a route.

markwellin · January 26, 2011, 09:41:22 am

A the new cuttings on Portland, called plyometrically speaking. It's quite typical there yes because they are boulder problems with ropes. Maybe 7m tops. The start is the crux so you can (and it has been done alot) solo them, but I bet the mats look pretty insignificant up there. Although the top is only about v1.

rodma · January 26, 2011, 12:37:11 pm

Just realised something fundamental.

The grade difference I referred to was only on rock. Indoors there is no grade difference. I'd have thought most people would have a similar flashed to worked grade indoors, if not, a greatly reduced difference.

andy_e · January 26, 2011, 10:44:55 pm

I've never flashed 7a and I've done a few 7b+/cs. Go figure?

Richie Crouch · January 27, 2011, 08:40:12 am

Quote from: andi_e on January 26, 2011, 10:44:55 pm

I've never flashed 7a and I've done a few 7b+/cs. Go figure?

You like to be seen to do things in fine style so are willing to let go, rather than overpower through with bad beta for a scrappy flash!?

galpinos · January 27, 2011, 09:16:34 am

7a and 7b for routes, 7A and 7B for bouldering so two grades for both. The flashes were one-offs though, not a regular occurance.

nik at work · January 27, 2011, 10:10:40 am

Bouldering 7C+ and 8A+ (although the 7C+ was something of a one off, as was the 8A+ thinking about it. Maybe 7B+ and 8A would be a more accurate representation). So 2 or 3 grades difference.
Sport 7a+ and 7c+ so 4 grades difference, but I have only really tried red-pointing and the 7a+ flash was only because my previous best was beyond woeful.
Interestingly (or not perhaps) my trad on-sight/headpoint difference is 0.

andy_e · January 27, 2011, 10:21:35 am

Quote from: nik at work on January 27, 2011, 10:10:40 am

Interestingly (or not perhaps) my trad on-sight/headpoint difference is 0.

And what grade is that, could you remind us, oh Beardy one?

Yoof · May 08, 2011, 12:48:27 pm

Sportwise- I onsighted 1 grade harder than I've redpointed (F7b+ as opposed to F7b)... Though I've not done much sport so it doesn't really mean anything.

Bouldering- Flashed 1 easier than I've worked.

I suppose it comes down to how sequency/ powerful they are, If you find a problem/route with a nice mix of the two and you've planned your sequence you can easily onsight at your limit.

Fultonius · May 08, 2011, 03:31:02 pm

On routes: Best O/S was F7a+ and best redpoint F7c/+ 3/4 difference.

Boulders: Oh...just realised I've never really onsighted anything of worth...hmm - maybe 6C O/S and 7B+ worked so 5 or so. Piss poor boulder O/S record.

AJM · May 08, 2011, 05:33:00 pm

Quote from: AJM on January 25, 2011, 06:05:11 pm

I'm on 4 for routes, but its probably further towards 5 than towards 3. I'm not very good at onsighting, mainly because near me I find it easier to get inspired by harder redpoints than mid-grade onsights.

Turns out I was wrong

I'm going to have my work cut out now if I ever want to get to the heady realms of a +5 redpoint difference, especially given my new level of psyche for onsighting