[slackline]

Fair enough, I thought as you have already spent sometime looking into the application you  may already have them.

Sorry, I've already linked what I've searched/found.

[Sloper]

Let's think of the numbers.

How much are you prepared to pay for a 15 second zip wire ride? (Let's compare it to the standard stag day activities which are about £70 per head for two two hour sessions). £20?

Now let's imagine that they're going to have to pay to set up and remove the thing each day and have staff there at the top and bottom and running the harnesses and helmets from bottom to top.

Add in the cost of the stuff to build it.

Add in the cost of the insurance.

I'd imagine you'd need at least 100 punters per day to even break even.

Now who thinks that that is a reasonable prospect?

This just won't fly.

[erm, sam]

Thanks for your statement Darren. I suppose I am undecided having read it. I agree that the goal to get disabled people out into the country side is a worthy one. I personally have no experience of how difficult this is with wheelchairs and paths etc but I can accept that it is challenging.
If the line is to be rigged purely from boulders etc with no permanent fixtures and only 10 times a year for only disabled people who cant do much else in the country side then in itself it isn't the zip line idea is not a bad one.

However I find it hard to believe there is no other spot in the peaks where you could run this, though I have no personal knowledge of where that place would be (of course, that would be too easy).

I also worry that it will indeed open a can of worms as to wider use of ziplines or what have you by commercial groups in the country side. I agree with Dave that "it sets an example that I'm not convinced is a good one for use of national parks."

I have not been down to the plantation in some time so have not witnessed the litter carnage you mention, but I am aware of similar impacts around eg the Surprise View carpark. I would be keen to get involved with a Lovers-of-Burbage-Valley-Clean-up-Weekend or what ever. I suggest a different title is used as the above sounds like a Doggers-Going-Heroin-FreeWeekend, which I'm not sure sets the right tone.

[slackline]

Secondly, you say that the anchors that have been chosen were selected as they don't get in the way of anything etc. That sits at odds to an earlier observation in this very thread (by Nai?). Again, could we have some fact, a photograph perhaps showing which anchor you intend to use?

The post states that four test rigs were set-up, could have been one of the three that wasn't suitable that Nai(?) saw.

[slackline]

Now who thinks that that is a reasonable prospect?

Not everything is about money (although its key to most businesses continuation).  Perhaps enough profit is turned from other activities to run this at a loss to enable disabled kids to give it a try. 

[Sloper]

When it comes to insurance it fucking is.

Personally I'd say the Slate & Nazi approach would be conservative.

No insurance no zip wire.

[lagerstarfish]

As far as "reasonable adjustment" goes, I think the temporary zip wire/rope is a great way for disabled people to enjoy the Peak District. I can see that it could be cheaper and less damaging than building permanent tracks across moorland.

In terms of "bang for your environmental buck" I think this is a route worth exploring. I know that if I was unable to wear out the bouldering landings in the Burbage Valley then I'd accept an aerial rope ride as an equally life enhancing alternative.

A thousand pairs of feet trudging for miles across the moors and polishing up a few classic routes versus a few people gliding through the air, using a couple of otherwise unused boulders and a few meters of approach path. Worth thinking about. Certainly of similar benefit to society in my opinion.

Similar visual impact? Probably. Those paragliders and sightseeing helicopters have more of a visual impact than a zip rope thingy. I know the paragliders are quiet and look good, but I'd be just as happy (if not more so) seeing someone who can't walk or climb getting their thing on using a rope over the valley.

However, the moment that I think such a thing was being used to entertain people with money who can't be bothered to train their capable bodies and minds to the point where they can enjoy The Peak in ways that I consider acceptable then I will be chucking clogs in looms.

Hang on....

if any helicopters or 4x4s are brought down by clogs, it wasn't me

you didn't see anyyyything....

[lagerstarfish]

causual observer who rolls up one day at burbage, sees some guys with a zipline setup and think "hey that looks rad, why don't I go and set one of them badboys up myself

Don't be daft. By that logic you'd get people with off-road vehicles just razzing about wherever they wanted just because they saw somebody else doing it.


Ahhhh, I see your point; if we can't stop those cvnts then we'll never stop the rogue zipwire buccaneers.

I'm sure someone will be along to say something about rules that are not enforceable should still be rules (or the opposite, depending on who shouts up)

Why am I still allowed to post stuff when I started drinking with Jasper at 15.00 and it is now 01.15 ? Shirley there is a rule against this?

Ha!

[Sloper]

They're seriously considering bringing an action for defamation?  Look the chances of that are even more remote that this fuck witted idea ever getting of the ground.

As for your views that the work of Kier 'improving' access goes, in my mind this merely indicate that you're a retarded  with no idea of aesthetics, ethics or indeed very little else.

Playing the 'inclusion' card is the last resort of the moron with no meaningful argument just as patriotism is the last resot of the scoundrel.

[lagerstarfish]

Playing the 'inclusion' card is the last resort of the moron with no meaningful argument

Ha!

So, Lord Sloper; you have revealed yourself to be prejudiced against stupid people who can provide no rationale to their wrong opinions.

If people like you had their way then there would be no Reality TV Industry at all - then where would we be, eh?

Anyway, you're quite right. Nobody should have to resort to the "inclusion card". It is always be possible to explain such things in terms of ethics, aesthetics and logic. However, this takes time and effort from both sides and it is just a better use of everyone's time to refer to the already worked through principle of "inclusion".

[Sloper]

Yes I am prejudiced against morons who spout shite  .

The inclusion argument is just one that induces near apoplexy in me, whether it's 4x4  's using it to defend their destruction of the environment or twats saying that they've every right to top rope the fuck out of bold routes which are routinely climbed properly by total punters.

Basically the 'inclusion' argument is founded on the devaluation of the thing that people are seeking to experience to the degree to which makes the whole exercise not only jejune for the person who is included by also devalues the experience for those that have made the effort to experience it in all it's glory.

If the 'inclusionists' had their way the Paralympic marathond would be 50m with a stair lift.

[Ian W]

Let's think of the numbers.

How much are you prepared to pay for a 15 second zip wire ride? (Let's compare it to the standard stag day activities which are about £70 per head for two two hour sessions). £20?

Now let's imagine that they're going to have to pay to set up and remove the thing each day and have staff there at the top and bottom and running the harnesses and helmets from bottom to top.

Add in the cost of the stuff to build it.

Add in the cost of the insurance.

I'd imagine you'd need at least 100 punters per day to even break even.

Now who thinks that that is a reasonable prospect?

This just won't fly.

There's one of these temporary zipwire thingies been floating around the north east of late, and it isnt aimed at the stag do market; is been used mainly for sponsored / fund raising type events. I.e. "get some adrenaline for free, min sponsorship £100" type jobbies. They did one at Alnwick castle and one over the River Tyne, amongst other places.

I've no objection at all to this type of thing in these locations (man made, no impact, only there for a weekend, but in a national park? No ta. I don't use Burbage, but I can translate the look to many places I do use, and my vote goes for somewhere else, as per many previous posters. The phrase "thin end of wedge" springs to mind.

[philo]

wouldnt mind it at the top of kyloe in to the car park, fuck the walk out!

[andy_e]

Ooh or a toboggan run...

[smithaldo]

long time lurker, but this caused me to be a first time poster....

I reckon david lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company are involved in this application somehow, to make a well rad film about someone fuelled by over-caffeinated sugary drink company and/or pepsi max taking it to the edge,

Or perhaps callum also wants easier access to obvious dry tooling venues in the peak, as dry toolin is well rad at the moment too yeah?

[psychomansam]

Just a little note to adventures are us to say...

Have read your "blog" and does nothing to change my mind. There is simply no need to use burbage valley as a site for a zip wire.

By all means improve paths and allow some access for the disabled, but neither they nor anyone else need a zip wire in a national park.
A national park is a natural environment. A zip wire is a fake adrenalin high in an environment of simulated danger, is not a true adventure and has nothing to do with nature or beauty.

I also find your tone concerning threats of libel to be infantile and repulsive. This country has oppressive libel laws which need to be reformed. Nice to know you're on the side of the oppressor. I'm ashamed to know you work in the outdoor environment. You obviously learn little from it.

Sam

[Falling Down]

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I was relatively open minded about the proposals until I read the so called press release and other material.  Playing the 'access for all' card to justify a zip wire is beyond cynical and threats of litigation are just downright unpleasant.

[slackline]

long time lurker, but this caused me to be a first time poster....

According to the records you posted twice on August 23^rd 2006, but that was quite some time ago.

I reckon david lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company are involved in this application somehow, to make a well rad film about someone fuelled by over-caffeinated sugary drink company and/or pepsi max taking it to the edge,

Lama visited last year as part of the Mammut team and made a rad video (no bolts were placed as far as I'm aware).

Or perhaps callum also wants easier access to obvious dry tooling venues in the peak, as dry toolin is well rad at the moment too yeah?

Thats just stupid and as with the Lama/over-caffeinated sugary drink company comments contributes nothing other than demonstrating that you too don't think the zipwire is appropriate, which would have been far easier to say.

[Falling Down]

Hi everyone my name is Darren Thomas of Adventures Are Us Limited.

Darren, just out of curiosity, are you the same Darren Thomas who claimed several very hard first ascents in the valley in the early nineties?

[Johnny Brown]

Tis indeed.

[john horscroft]

A national park is a natural environment. A zip wire is a fake adrenalin high in an environment of simulated danger, is not a true adventure and has nothing to do with nature or beauty.

I also find your tone concerning threats of libel to be infantile and repulsive. This country has oppressive libel laws which need to be reformed. Nice to know you're on the side of the oppressor. I'm ashamed to know you work in the outdoor environment. You obviously learn little from it.

Sam

Nicely put Sam.

[shark]

Will the punters be gagged ?

[clm]

once theyve zipped these disabled punters down into the valley bottom, how do they plan to get them out? Rough as owt down there.

[smithaldo]

Apologies, I come in peace.... didnt realised I had posted before.

The lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company reference was to the patagonia debacle where they went to make a film and drilled alot of shiny new bolts and a general mess as well which they got rightly condemmed for. But also wasnt there a furor about the mammut teams visit and the mess they left too? or was that the year before, I cant remember.

I suppose the previous post was a very poorly made attempt at the point that the idea of these things is often alot different from the reality in terms of local impact, and/or as others have stated, the thin end of the wedge.

The callum point was my (now) obviously poor attempt at ironic humour at what is to me quite obviously a barmy idea.

I was quite surprised at the adventure unlimited chap's reaction to the responses here though, surely he knew it would  create a shitstorm?

[slackline]

Apologies, I come in peace.... didnt realised I had posted before.

No offence intended.  Posting history is linked in the profile pages.

The lama and over-caffeinated sugary drink company reference was to the patagonia debacle where they went to make a film and drilled alot of shiny new bolts and a general mess as well which they got rightly condemmed for.

Yes I clocked that hence the comment about not having left bolts. 

But also wasnt there a furor about the mammut teams visit and the mess they left too? or was that the year before, I cant remember.

No idea, don't remember hearing anything.

Please don't let my pedantry put you off from participating in the site.