[Sloper]

BTW does anyone know how to use the quote function? 

I think jcm is your man when it comes to quotes.

Yes but only if you're looking for some latin or g(r)eek.

I wonder if the BMC will actually approach him to deal with the Don Whillans Memorial hut or will they prefer to just tak the old farts in blazers approach?

[tomtom]

I really dont think they've got a clue...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jan/07/universities-intake-simon-hughes#start-of-comments

I quite admire what he's trying to do, but he's bonkers if he thinks that is going to work.. 

[Johnny Brown]

Comments are priceless - 'Is he drunk?'

[tomtom]

Theres so many issues with what he's saying I didnt know where to start! But from what I've been hearing he's clearly deluded if he thinks that most places will be charging 6k and only a few 9k... the reverse is most likely!

[Johnny Brown]

Being 27K in debt at 21 is the passport to a life of misery.

[ducko]

personally id say that you successful if you can:

A) afford too live life to a reasonably good standard
B) be in good health and have time to enjoy yourself (i.e climbing)
C) if you have an job you enjoy

myself i work 4 on 6 off so i get loads of time off except i have to work nights which fucks your sleep up but its worth it in the summer.

[tomtom]

The data's a wee bit old but makes interesting reading....

[andy popp]

No big surprises, but undoubtedly interesting to see it. I've worked at three of those: Sheffield Hallam, Royal Holloway and now Liverpool - teaching at SHU, with many more local, state educated and mature students, was easily as rewarding as teaching at RH or Liverpool. Hull does well Tom.

[slackline]

So Independent schools don't do free lunches? 

[tomtom]

Yup - for us 'widening participation' would be bringing in more private school students

God knows how all this is going to work - I think the (stupid) Govt has really created a rod for their own back here... It wouldnt surprise me if some of the top universities (including plaves like London Art colleges and LSE) went private... rumour Oxford is considering it too.. they can then charge whatever they like. That would REALLY widen participation and remove social/economic barriers wouldnt it!

All of the Russel group will charge £9k (else they'll look cheap)... latest gossip is that we're somewhere in the 8-9k range.. 

[tomtom]

So Independent schools don't do free lunches? 

 

One intresting stat (or non stat..) is that every year we plot our graduating students final percentage against their entry A level point scores (not offers - scores). No correlation at all - not even a vague trend..

[andy popp]

All of the Russel group will charge £9k (else they'll look cheap)... latest gossip is that we're somewhere in the 8-9k range.. 

I was very amused this week when the rumours that Cambridge will charge top whack were treated as some sort of newsworthy surprise.

[slackline]

So Independent schools don't do free lunches? 

 

One intresting stat (or non stat..) is that every year we plot our graduating students final percentage against their entry A level point scores (not offers - scores). No correlation at all - not even a vague trend..

Three years is a long time to change your attitude and approach to education, perhaps look at changes over time and include performance in A-levels, first year, second and third years (and optionally even break each year down into their respective halves).

[webbo]

The answer is to do a nursing degree.No fees and you may even get a bursery and you not only end up with a degree but also a professional qualification.which might even get you a job at the end.
Mind you'll probably end up in the NHS and thats a laugh a minute.

[slackline]

Cleaning up others faeces and other bodily excretions is a strong deterrent to many though.

[webbo]

Thats the nice bit of the job.

[underground]

One intresting stat (or non stat..) is that every year we plot our graduating students final percentage against their entry A level point scores (not offers - scores). No correlation at all - not even a vague trend..

Here's an anecdotal account:

I was a model student, loads of A's for my GCSEs, and importantly, liked studying. Not so good at A level due to mathematical inability causing problems in Chemistry and Physics but still liked getting my head down in the books, got over the grades they wanted and started on Microbiology at Aberystwyth. Got there and soon realised my maths was so dire I couldn''t entertain the genetics and biochem modules so switched to straight Zoology, which at the time in a trad place like Aber with old men doing the same lectures they'd done on OHP for years was a soul destrying experience.

However - it was the sudden ability to socialise at will, throw off the old personality traits of the bullying at school, be myself, etc  - that meant I was out every night and not often out of bed in time for lectures etc.

So in my case - relative decline in grades. Glad of the experience - however, in retrospect, I didn't have a clue who I was or what I was doing back then. Again, in retrospect, and bitter experience, I should have been forced into the army or onto a building site for 2 years.

Introduce a 'National Service Gap Year' and you'll see the trend improve...

[mrjonathanr]

So Independent schools don't do free lunches? 

There's no such thing. I thought you knew?

[slackline]

So Independent schools don't do free school lunches meals? 

There's no such thing. I thought you knew?

Corrected to match the nomenclature used in the data.

[mrjonathanr]

I was very amused this week when the rumours that Cambridge will charge top whack were treated as some sort of newsworthy surprise.

There is no way Oxford and Cambridge can run a one-to-one tutorial system and not be hideously expensive on labour costs alone.

Slack-line: if your family can afford 5 figure annual education costs you may well be above the threshold - and a bursary is free by definition. PS 'free lunch' ...'no such thing as a...' 

[tomtom]

There is no way Oxford and Cambridge can run a one-to-one tutorial system and not be hideously expensive on labour costs alone.

They can't. So they have a way. Its a seemingly little known fact that Oxbridge get EXTRA on top of the existing teaching grant per student. I believe its in the order of £1.5-2k per student. (existing teaching grant etc.. is c.£6k.. rising for science STEM subjects etc..)

This is an Oxbridge only extra - no other university seems to be able to get away with it have it. Dont ever pity Oxbridge for 'doing more teaching' as they get paid extra for that.... This all seems to be a hangover from the collegiate system whereby students are taught both in their colleges and departments (certain colleges being affiliated to certain subjects etc..). I have no idea if this 'grant' will be scrapped as well.. I doubt it seeing as most of the Govt (old and new) went there...

Personally I think its ferking scandlous that they have been able to do this for years - but it just seems to slip under the radar all the time.

[mrjonathanr]

.. Oxbridge get EXTRA on top of the existing teaching grant per student. I believe its in the order of £1.5-2k per student. (existing teaching grant etc.. is c.£6k.. rising for science STEM subjects etc..)This is an Oxbridge only extra - no other university seems to be able to get away with it have it. Dont ever pity Oxbridge for 'doing more teaching' as they get paid extra for that....

No, I don't pity them, I don't think my post suggested that.

Personally I think its ferking scandlous that they have been able to do this for years - but it just seems to slip under the radar all the time.

Ahh, I see, to achieve a level playing field you'd like to reduce funding in higher education.

[tomtom]

It wasnt directed at you MrJR.. my views are a general Oxbridge Rant - they've been getting away with (in my view) being ABLE to get more than anyone else for ages.. 

The level playing field would be if Oxbridge were not able to get more money per student than any other UK university - or conversely if any other UK university were able to access the same grant that Oxbridge can - which they can't..

You're getting the wrong end of my stick! 

[mrjonathanr]

You're getting the wrong end of my stick! 

No I'm not, I'm being terse because I'm having a bad day and you're knocking my alma mater for doing something well. Sorry.

The level playing field would be if ... conversely any other UK university were able to access the same grant that Oxbridge can - which they can't..

That's a bit more like it. Aim high. Lower common denominators won't raise standards.
Seriously though, the so-and-sos who want to drive higher ed towards an American funding model need opposing IMHO

[tomtom]

More fuckwittery from the Government. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12577227

The Higher Education White Paper was due to be published by March 2011. But universities minister David Willetts said he was delaying it in part to see how "price-setting works this spring".

Actually, it was due to be first published in Dec 2010...

In other words, they've made such a balls up of implementing the Browne reprot that they're now not sure whats going to happen when the fees can/will be raised to 9k, so they're going to see what happens for a year before deciding what to do properly... in the meantime HE institutes have to make decisions about future funding with no idea what is going to happen!

More from the backrooms of a.n.other institution...
The govt seems to have shafted itself again, but saying that if too many universities charge 9k it will cut the teaching and research grants (T&R)... so.. as this would be a uniform % cut across the board this THEN incentivises every HE institute to charge what they can, to try relatively compensate for the (assumed) drop in T&R. Word on the HE street is that Russel group are nailed on to charge 9k, and very few will charge less than 8...  To be honest, working in a not Russel group University this makes things better-  we remove any potential price market/stratification and simply raise the fees accross the board from 3k to 9k...

Gosh, who'd of thought that implementing a half baked policy would have led to the institutions if impacts on finding ways to exploit/get around it? After all, its not like they are famous for thinking or coming up with ideas is it??