[Sloper]

Shit, what next the poper shits int he wood, bears are catholic etc.

E\veryone with any sense or options pays the minimum amount due,  Ask Jasper.

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Shit, what next the poper shits int he wood, bears are catholic etc.

E\veryone with any sense or options pays the minimum amount due,  Ask Jasper.

And those of us with a conscience pays the maximum amount due?

[aLICErOBERTSfANkLUB]

Actually. Scratch that.

Those of us with a conscience pay the amount due.

We don't employ people to reduce what we owe simply in order to have the smallest possible liabilty to the state and/or obligations to society as a whole

[slackline]

Shit, what next the poper shits int he wood, bears are catholic etc.

E\veryone with any sense or options pays the minimum amount due,  Ask Jasper.

Watch the program, pay particular attention to the sections where Osborne et al say that they are going to minimise such tax avoidance.  Now refresh your acquaintance with the term 'hypocrite'.

[Jaspersharpe]

As I have said before, there is a big, big difference between using information and professional advice to ensure you aren't paying too much tax and deliberately creating complex offshore vehicles and trusts to avoid paying millions.

You even agreed that this was the case Sloper, don't make me dig up the post!

Also, just because they have the option to do the latter, not "everybody" does so:

Now, I never, ever, expected to find myself in a position where I could understand, from personal experience, the choices and temptations open to a man as rich as Lord Ashcroft. The fact remains that the first time I ever met my recently retired accountant, he put it to me point-blank: would I organise my money around my life, or my life around my money? If the latter, it was time to relocate to Ireland, Monaco, or possibly Belize.

I chose to remain a domiciled taxpayer for a couple of reasons. The main one was that I wanted my children to grow up where I grew up, to have proper roots in a culture as old and magnificent as Britain’s; to be citizens, with everything that implies, of a real country, not free-floating ex-pats, living in the limbo of some tax haven and associating only with the children of similarly greedy tax exiles.

A second reason, however, was that I am indebted to the British welfare state; the very one that Mr Cameron would like to replace with charity handouts. When my life hit rock bottom, that safety net, threadbare though it had become under John Major’s Government, was there to break the fall. I cannot help feeling, therefore, that it would have been contemptible to scarper for the West Indies at the first sniff of a seven-figure royalty cheque. This, if you like, is my notion of patriotism. On the available evidence, I suspect that it is Lord Ashcroft’s idea of being a mug.

[Jaspersharpe]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/oct/26/tax-avoidance-switzerland-agreement

 

[seankenny]

The message here is never read any article in the Guardian that has numbers in it. ie all the business and finance page and any non-fluffy political analysis.
 

Care to disassemble this one:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/oct/31/william-keegan-ironic-labour-legacy

[shark]

I see major outsourcer Serco has had to backtrack on squeezing its suppliers in response to the cuts due to political pressure. Francis Maude was said to have hit the roof. Admittedly Serco could have been more subtle but what the fuck did Maude expect ? Savings magiced up out of thin air ? They are so out of touch with business realities it beggars belief. They want it both ways - happy to put the squeeze on Serco but not let Serco put the squeeze on suppliers. Wankers. 

[Sloper]

Serco and their ilk are cunts and will remain so till I get some nice juicy consultancy fees from them.

[tomtom]

Well if anyone thought that the Liberals had any sway on Tory policies - I think todays announcement on Student fee increases pretty much shows who wears the trousers.

Watching the liberals trying to defend this decision is just so uncomfortable.... New coalition politics? My arse, its just as sneaky and spin loaded as the worst New Labour had to offer.

Creating a 'free' market in HE may well be a good thing in some ways, but leaving students with a £30-40k debt after three years (now with interest at up to +3% of inflation) is really going to cause some problems in future generations... Kind of the opposite of giving someone a nest egg with which to start in life.....

Neo liberalisation at its worst.

[Sloper]

Indeed and anyone who has anything to do with Labour should have that betrayal rammed down their throat.  What did the cvnts think would happen when they let loose the forces of the market in higher education?

Cvnts.

Higher education should be free, end of discussion, so what if its expensive: if you think education is expensive consider the price of ignorance.

And yes I am wholly against the Tory policy here (and with the 1994 expansion) as well as the dishonest and malign Labour policies.

[superfurrymonkey]

[shark]

So whats going on in Ireland ? Has Lenihan lost touch with reality or is Brussels overstating the problem ?

[andy popp]

Don't forget, Ireland is our model for recovery. Its seems to be going swimmingly.

[slackline]

Let them eat cheese! 

[roddersm]

So whats going on in Ireland ? Has Lenihan lost touch with reality or is Brussels overstating the problem ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11768336

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/11/ireland_how_much_punishment_fo.html

It's hard to say. The banks look fecked and no doubt a load of mortgage defaults which is sure to come will kick of another crisis, especially with more austerity measures on the way
.

Lenihan is adament that they have enough cash until well into next year but they'll be fecked if theres more bank bailouts needed.

However I suppose the 12.5% corporation tax is a big sticking point in terms of gettin eu help. If this is raised they'll be even more fecked as growth in IT and banking etc from oversea companies is about the only thing going for them at the minute.

It's hard to say if this is just eu bully boy tactics and media hysterity or Ireland is really on the brink of collapse.

[shark]

Don't forget, Ireland is our model for recovery. Its seems to be going swimmingly.

Has it been touted as such ? I recall Alex Salmon etc presenting it as a model for an independent Scotland before things went tits up.

I wonder where the UK would be now economically if we had adopted the Euro and the tied ourselves to Central Euro base rates ? Almost certainly worse off.

[roddersm]

Don't forget, Ireland is our model for recovery. Its seems to be going swimmingly.

Has it been touted as such ? I recall Alex Salmon etc presenting it as a model for an independent Scotland before things went tits up.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article733821.ecehtt
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/sep/23/ireland-austerity-budgets-comment

Osbourne wanted to model the UK economy on the Irish one when he was Shadow
cancellor  and has repeadly hailed Dublin for making such big cuts.

[tomtom]

Don't forget, Ireland is our model for recovery. Its seems to be going swimmingly.

Has it been touted as such ? I recall Alex Salmon etc presenting it as a model for an independent Scotland before things went tits up.

I believe it was Iceland 

[Jaspersharpe]

[tomtom]

Indeed - but dont forget it could get worse than Katona...

[Sloper]

The joke used to be what's the difference between Irelance and Iceland? 6 months and one letter.

Having said that we're acutally in a not too (thematically) different spot with the big difference is that we can't call on our German and French friends to bail us out.  The difference between the UK and Eire could be a few more letters and another year.  Time will tell.

Devaluing £Sterling was supposed to lead to an export led recovery.  This hasn't happened.
Inflation remains worryingly high and pressures are unlikely to reduce.
Growth remains weak.
Structural deficit is still hanging aorund our necks.
Anyone who thinks the property bubble has shrunk to a base is deluded.

In short if it's shitty on the liffey things could be a lot wore on the thames before the wheel stops spinning.

[superfurrymonkey]

"Look, one thing that has to be made clear at the very beginning is that the main reason for these large deficits is not excessive government spending, but falling tax revenue through the collapse in private sector demand. So if we are in a full implement situation, cutting government spending might create room for the private sector to come and create jobs and so on.

But the very reason why we have this deficit is the private sector is not investing, and cutting deficits is not going to make them invest because the root cause of their unwillingness to invest is the problems with their balance sheets. This cut is not going to solve the problem.

But more importantly, in the short run, that is viewed that it is the best if you cut the deficit as much and as quickly as possible. There’s no economic logic. The British government, you know, says to cut the deficit down to basically zero in four years’ time. But four years makes sense in calendar terms, but in economic terms, it doesn’t make any sense.

If you want to cut this deficit, you have to cut to the state of the economy. So maybe in some cases, you can cut it in two years, maybe in some cases it will have to be 12. Unfortunately a lot of deficit hawks have a hidden agenda. They basically want to rollback the welfare state and they’re using it as an excuse to do it."
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/11/19/economist_ha_joon_chang_on_currency

[granticus]

 

The cuts are underpinned by a political ideology that can be implemented at this time with strong arguments that they are necessary.  Those who think the state should be 'skinny' are taking advantage of the existing situation without pausing for thought about where this might leave us.  Whatever your political beliefs might be it is pretty clear from looking at our nearest neighbour that savage cutting will not have a positive affect on our economy.  May I refer y'all to my post near the start of this thread, if we continue to follow the Irish road to recovery we will find ourselves up shit creek with a turd for a paddle

The head of the Irish equivalent of the TUC made a very interesting speach about the effects of an age of 'austerity' on the economy over there and it wasn't very fUKcing rosie.

I hear that folk in Ireland are crossing the boarder to do their shopping where they can afford it.  Maybe we'll end up crossing the channel to do similar...

[Sloper]

Grade A ignorant bollocks.  Shoppers have been going over the border from eire becuase the value of £Sterling hs collapsed against the Euro.

As for cutting hard and fast it worked for Howe despite a huge number of economists saying it wouldn't and further Eire's problems are quite different to ours.  Try looking up 'structural deficit' for starters.

So by all means argue again the government's policies but please try to do so on the basis of something other than sub jcb rhetoric and a factual vacumn.

If you think a big state is then asnwer ask the Castro's, becuase even they've decided it's not really that good an idea.