[cofe]

We need a new car and are looking at options. As always, advice welcome.

It needs to be mid-sized, estate possibly, suitable for climbing (bouldering...), carrying a baby and baby supplies on jaunts, and a couple of mountain bikes. If it can hold 3 people with 3 bikes with some kind of rear seat combination then that's a big attraction.

Needs to be reliable, fairly economical, cheap to maintain (Ford?). Not too bothered about looks and power: something has to give. Budget will be up to £4k probably.

At the moment, looking at: Focus Estate, CMax, Fabia Estate, Octavia Estate, Passat Estate etc etc.

Any recs? Ta.

[Adam Lincoln]

I have a Ford Focus estate. Love it. Economical, fast enough, loads of space. You might just get a new shape one, 55 plate for 4k if you look around. Will run 50/50 bio diesel.
Passat estate is the other option. If you get an older one, you can run on 100% bio. Bit more expensive than Focus though like for like.

[cofe]

what year is your Focus Adam? what's the engine? I've heard the 1.8 petrol is good.

[Adam Lincoln]

what year is your Focus Adam? what's the engine? I've heard the 1.8 petrol is good.

1.8 Diesel. Mine is a 55 plate. Don't buy petrol.

[ChrisC]

The Focus diesel TDCi engines are great.  The old plain TD ones are rubbish, not sure if they still make them, but if they do then steer clear.

[Adam Lincoln]

The Focus diesel TDCi engines are great. 

Yep, that's what mine is.

[Zods Beard]

I'd go for a diesel too. The newer ones perform a lot better, especially when loaded up with kit,people etc. The Ford ones are supposed to be very good, I have a Megane myself, the 1.9 DCI. Great engine, shame about the build quality on the rest of the car.

[cofe]

I won't tell you what car/engine combo we're getting rid of then Zod....!

Focus are looking good to me.

[SA Chris]

Watching this thread with interest too. Think the Pug 306 Estate gave up the ghost on Sunday, 98000 miles on the clock.

Great engine, shame everything else is shit. Don't buy French.

[cofe]

Don't buy French.

Unless you're in a boulangerie, epicerie, patisserie or boucherie.

[Bubba]

Don't rule out the Mondeo - like the Focus but bigger and there's thousands of ex-fleet bargains about.

[BB]

I recently bought a VW passat TDI sport, which I can't recommend highly enough. It was a fair bit more than your budget, but we went for a young one with low mileage. For some reason, they aren't as desirable as golfs and so go for quite a bit less on the second hand market.

[Jim]

not forgetting the charcuterie.
I heard bad things about the 1.8 petrol focus engine. we got the 1.6 but its not the estate, a good little car.
Definately go for the vag 1.9 tdi (red i ones with 130 bhp) either passat or a4.
this is a solid engine that give 50mpg+ all the time unlike the ford or renault engines that only do 50mpg on a good run.
If you do get a vag car then definately get the sport (or now s-line) as the SE drives like a boat.
Mondeo is also an excellent car but may be a touch too big for you

[BB]

not forgetting the charcuterie.
I heard bad things about the 1.8 petrol focus engine. we got the 1.6 but its not the estate, a good little car.
Definately go for the vag 1.9 tdi (red i ones with 130 bhp) either passat or a4.
this is a solid engine that give 50mpg+ all the time unlike the ford or renault engines that only do 50mpg on a good run.
If you do get a vag car then definately get the sport (or now s-line) as the SE drives like a boat.
Mondeo is also an excellent car but may be a touch too big for you

The slightly newer VAG cars have 2 litre diesels and the sport/s-lineis now 140 or 170bhp depending on what variant you go for.

[Adam Lincoln]

this is a solid engine that give 50mpg+ all the time unlike the ford

I get 49mpg out of mine driving 90 on the motorways. Very little difference in mpg for a tank however i drive it really.

[GCW]

Interesting, I found the S-line to be a bone shaker and the standard to be just right.  I know I'm getting old though...........

[BB]

this is a solid engine that give 50mpg+ all the time unlike the ford

I get 49mpg out of mine driving 90 on the motorways. Very little difference in mpg for a tank however i drive it really.

Oh yeah, forgot...

I get 45mpg out of my 2litre 140horse passat, but that's a long term combined urban/extra urban average. On the motorway it's 48-50.

[Jim]

the newer 2.0tdi vag engines are no were near as good as the older 1.9

[Paul B]

I think the don't buy a Petrol mentality is a bit out dated. The number of miles you need to do on a diesel to recoup the extra cost of the engine isn't small. True, its less of an issue buying second hand as someone else has taken that hit but its far from clear cut and a petrol engine might offer you more for your money. The lack of any kind of torque on the petrol might make it feel a bit boring to drive compared to a diesel.

Since owning VAG vehicles I've been very impressed. They think about a lot and the build is extraordinary. Having said that, Bubba's mondeo is a lovely thing and I wouldn't be put off buying one.

Cmax was my first suggestion. I think they're meant to be quite good to drive and if the build is like Bubb's mondy then that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

I'd second Audi SE's being a shit motion sickness inducing ride. The sport and s-line go slightly the other way.

There are other VAG group cars, skoda, seat etc that might offer even more for your money although I do think Fabia estates need bigger wheels, just to give you some confidence they're not going to fall off and bounce around the gaping holes in the arches.

[cofe]

what's sensible max mileages for some of these diesels then? 50k? 70k? Do they all have timing belt done at 70k?

CMax are interesting, although seats look like they might fold in an annoying way.

[john horscroft]

Leftfield suggestion?  As you saw the other day Cofe, I've got a Fiat Doblo.  Enormous load capacity, (two mountain bikes in the back without removing the wheels and still room for four people), bullet proof JTD engine, cheap as chips to buy and it goes well on the motorway in spite of being as aerodynamic as a brick.  Still getting 50+ mpg on a long trip.  I've had no problems with mine and it's now 8 yrs old. 

[BB]

the newer 2.0tdi vag engines are no were near as good as the older 1.9

I'd be interested to see the SCIENCE behind that. As far as I'm aware, the 2.0 common rail diesels are lighter, more powerful, more economical, produce more torque than the 1.9 and don't sound like a tractor running over a bag of spanners. I'm speaking from the experience as well as the figures as I also own a 1.9tdi golf.

[SA Chris]

You can't beat a good bit of vag.

[Obi-Wan is lost...]

If you want reliable and cheap, you've got to go Japanese. Don't get me wrong I like most VAG cars but you pay over the odds for VW and Audi. I won't buy another SEAT, don't believe people when they say they are built as well as VW or Audi, they aren't. And French/italian is just not an option if you want reliability (sorry!)

My Dad has a Passat estate about the same age as our Accord tourer (2004), in his view (and mine) the Accord is much better built. My 2.2CDTI diesel has a chain not timing belt, and they don't even touch  that until 120k. Even then it's only an inspection. Fuel is average for a big car 40-50mpg, but we do tend to load it up.

There's a few higher mileage ones less than £4k

[Bubba]

what's sensible max mileages for some of these diesels then? 50k? 70k? Do they all have timing belt done at 70k?

If there's a full service history then don't worry about mileage too much. I bought mine with 111k on. I realise that may be too high for some people but 70k is nothing for a modern diesel.

Mondeo has a timing chain so effectively never needs changing, not sure about the Focus and the VAG engines.

I'd be interested to see the SCIENCE behind that.

I think Jim has mentioned on here before that the issue is reliability.

The lack of any kind of torque on the petrol might make it feel a bit boring to drive compared to a diesel.

That's it for me really. Diesels are much better to drive than the equivalent price-point petrol. And then there's the remap potential too.

. Having said that, Bubba's mondeo is a lovely thing and I wouldn't be put off buying one.

Thanks Paul You only went 400yds in it too! I'm very happy with it - on our recent holiday we did almost 3k miles of everything from 130mph autobahn to tight bumpy Croatian island roads and it was happy on everything. It is big so not great for urban parking but big is good if you have kids.... a bigger, heavier  will generally fare better in a collision than a small car.