>I would like to point out that BC isn't the proposer of the motion as JCM suggestsI believe I said the LAST motion. Who was it who doesn't read, doesn't listen and doesn't think again?So is Monster Munch presently bolted, then? Presumably you can tell Jasper whether it's really 8b+, then, right?
I don't think we should have put bolts in in the first place, but once my views don't prevail and they're there, what purpose would it serve me not using them?
If you find me putting new bolts in, you can tell me I'm not standing by my principles.
Quote from: Nemo on October 11, 2010, 06:50:14 pmFundamentally disagree with this – it isn’t my experience of sport climbers at all – especially not in the UK where the vast majority also take part in the other aspects of climbing.90's France?!
Fundamentally disagree with this – it isn’t my experience of sport climbers at all – especially not in the UK where the vast majority also take part in the other aspects of climbing.
Who was it who doesn't read, doesn't listen and doesn't think again?
I'm actually quite interested in what people think of the Gogarth bolt ladder episode. It seems to me quite a parallel, barring the fact that what the perps wanted to do was not sport climbing but aid climbing. What did you think of choppng that?
slack---line, of course I read it. My post to which Nemo had been replying wasn't limited to the UK. Read my '90's France?!', if you will, as 'well you may be right about the [present-day] UK scene, but that hasn't been true at all times and places, has it? E.g. 90's France.'Nemo seems like a bright guy. I thought he'd probably understand that without needing it spelled out.
Bonjoy, thanks for your reply. It's not clear to me that you appreciate that Carn Vellan is a trad cliff with a number of routes on it some of which pre-dated the sport routes, including two three-star routes and a reasonably popular local-classic type of HVS, and that we're talking about bolting a section of the cliff, perhaps one-third?In any case you're taking a different line from Nemo's strict utilitarian approach, which I would have thought would make the Gogarth bolts fine (I'd be interested to hear for that reason what he thinks about them). I think it's a fine distinction to say that Gogarth should 'obviously' be debolted, even though trad climbers aren't and won't be using the bit of cliff in question, because trad climbers have to look at the bolts from North Stack Wall, and that Cornish cliffs 'obviously' should be bolted as long as they'd make good sport routes, because trad climbers don't have to look at them. Leaving aside the fact that (as I say) this isn't actually true in this case, the visual impact is a small part of what the locals dislike about the notion of having sport climbing on Penwith sea cliffs.
“In any case you're taking a different line from Nemo's strict utilitarian approach” - JCM
“Mind, I don't know how I let him get away with that stuff about how sport climbers use sika because they climb on chossy cliffs. You don't see a lot of sika at Blackchurch. Henna, Whitestonecliffe or some bits of Swanage, and I refuse to believe that any sport climbing cliffs are as chossy as those.” – JCM
I seem to be a bit obsessed by this - I have another question. Do we have any sport routes which are on cliffs which are quite so lashed by the sea as this one? Bits of Swanage maybe? I've never seen seas there like the ones you get in Cornwall, though. The bolt stubs that exist from 1995 look pretty damned rusty. I'm just wondering how frequently it would be necessary to re-drill the cliff if sport routes were established. Or is this nonsense and bolts last perfectly well even if they're covered in waves every winter?