[Norton Sharley]

Honestly Lund you are getting hung up on names here.  Yoga has been around for millenia and covers such a wide range of movements that virtually any other training regime (Planche, Pilates ... ) could arguably be considered a derivative.  Quickly looking at a YouTube vid of Planche press ups - are these not a derivative of a yoga Cobra jump through to handstand (whatever it's properly called) movement?  Isometric exercises are the basis of Yoga - a dynamic movement between static (isometric) poses.

I normally need at least a full day's rest after a good yoga session, the same as for climbing.  If you're not knackered at the end of it you aint doing it right or going to a hard enough class.

And sit ups are only bad for your back if you haven't got the core strength, or awareness, to do them properly. 

Get over the name and go and do some decent Yoga, or at least don't slag us off for doing it.  It's good for posture, strength, body awareness, relaxation and breathing.  All of which are required to be a well rounded climber.  And if you're smart like the Shark you can pick a class full of young students

Having said all of that I could name one well known climber whose stretching regime involves touching his knees with a bent back and drinking tea and it doesn't stop him shaking and wobbling his way up far harder routes than most of us can do.

[slackline]

There are loads slackers.  (Ok if I call you slackers?)

Not at all.

Now, these are pretty selective, and before anyone accuses me of saying that I'm being selective, I googled for various things like "sit ups back pain" and the inverse, but the search terms may have been pretty shit at finding the counter arguments...

Also, I haven't read all the articles all the way through as I'm supposed to be working. 

Cheers for the links.  The beauty of the net is that the information is out there, I could have spent some of my (working) day going around and googling myself, but if you've already read the articles and are referring to the findings in a post then it makes sense (to my academically trained mind) to cite them at the same time (takes you a fraction longer to post, but if 20 people read your post and want to find out what you're going on about then you'll have saved 20 people a load of time looking for things that they might not be able to find as their searching may take them to different articles).  I'm  of telling people to go and search themselves, but if you're going to cite something you should provide the supporting evidence up front (in my opinion anyway).

You may want to try http://scholar.google.co.uk for future searches on the SCIENCE of things (it searches peer-reviewed scientific journals/periodicals and patents, and also sociology stuff etc, etc,).  Searching there for sit-ups back pain gives some hits.

Note also that if you're using google and put double quotes around a search term then you are requesting that Google returns pages that contain exactly the phrase that is between the quotes as opposed to pages that contain the individual terms.

[a dense loner]

there were 3 guys doing yoga tonight at the wall, not london, my core got a thorough workout
sit-ups ave been known to be bad for your lower back for at least 15 yrs
etc

[Lund]

My theory: they start crap, see loads of fancy pants people doing yoga, and spend time they need to be climbing and training doing yoga instead of climbing and training.

I got this far through the thread and have decided to sack it off as it's a load of bollocks - who needs to be climbing (much lesstraining)...christ, it's meant to be fun isn't it?

or is it just the latest excuse to harass people online?

Seeing as you saw fit to punter me over this bullshit, let me retort properly.

You've taken the comment out of the context in which it was delivered - the training (for climbing) - section, and turned it into some wank "who needs to climbing much less training" toss.  I guess you're thinking ooh I only need air and water and food and God and shit.  Yes very clever.

You need to climb if you're going to get better at climbing.  Climbing is accepted by anyone with one fucking braincell as being the best training for climbing if you're not very good at it.  As you improve granted, you can supplement the climbing with other shit - and the point was that I think yoga is a (not very good, but that's what the argument is about) supplement yet the punters I see 4 days in every 7 do it instead of climbing.  That is, they have a 3 hour window for a session, and they spend half of it doing yoga, and most of the other half talking.

So in the context of training, this thread, for climbing, they're doing a toss job, and they need to stop if they want to get better.  Presumably, people reading this fucking board want to get better.

There are some people on here (at least me and dense and char) that actually want to train because we enjoy it.  We're probably a bit obsessed, although the amount of obsession with it varies from time to time.  The fact that people post their daily training routines and progress on here, on their blogs, write in their diary, yada yada suggests that, on some level, it enriches their lives and existences, that they need it to be happy, and fuck me, we all need to be happy right?  So I would say that quite a lot of us NEED to go climbing, some of us NEED to train, and those are the people THIS FUCKING TRAINING BOARD IS AIMED AT.

So, if you're pissed because you do yoga, fine.  Join the fucking club.  But punter me because you don't need to train or climb, on the training board thread, and pretend that everyone is like you?  Cock.

I was going to leave this, and play the maturity card.  But then I saw Dense's post on the other thread about pull-ups on a mono whilst weighing 12 stone and I was inspired.

Now I'm going to fuck off, and decide whether I want to cancel my fucking account on this piece of shit.  I've had it with this bollocks.  Frankly, people like you turn this place, which I thought was for people who actually gave a shit about climbing hard rather than just being on t'interweb, in ukclimbing, and I can't stand that fucking place.

[slackline]

You've taken the comment out of the context in which it was delivered - the training (for climbing) - section, and turned it into some wank "who needs to climbing much less training" toss.  I guess you're thinking ooh I only need air and water and food and God and shit.  Yes very clever.

There we go, corrected that for ya 

Now I'm going to fuck off, and decide whether I want to cancel my fucking account on this piece of shit.  I've had it with this bollocks.  Frankly, people like you turn this place, which I thought was for people who actually gave a shit about climbing hard rather than just being on t'interweb, in ukclimbing, and I can't stand that fucking place.

One of my favourite quotes on t'net from our very own admin...

welcome to the internet where people tend to disagree with each other.

And a rather poignant cartoon to lighten the mood...

Thick skin, wheat/chaff, etc. etc.

(Don't take the karma system too seriously either).

[GCW]

Lund- you speak a lot of sense, but don't let one incident turn you off.  Besides, it'd be very dull if everyone agreed

[slackline]

And a rather poignant cartoon to lighten the mood...

  just correcting myself.

[lagerstarfish]

the punters I see 4 days in every 7 do it instead of climbing.  That is, they have a 3 hour window for a session, and they spend half of it doing yoga, and most of the other half talking

based on my observations, I think this is inaccurate.

They probably spend 20 to 30% of their time looking in mirrors and a similar amount of time in the sauna/steam room. leaving 40 to 60% of their time to be split between talking and yoga-ing.

[Stubbs]

  That is, they have a 3 hour window for a session, and they spend half of it doing yoga, and most of the other half talking.

I'm glad the people at The Castle do that, if they didn't they might be bouldering, and I'd have to wait longer for a go!

[saltbeef]

poor lund
he's been given a hard time for being flippant.
i agree with him. and lee.
most of the goons i see doing yoga at walls in manc then fucking sketch their way up some jugs. shock loading their joints all the way up.
that is not to say everyone who does yoga and climbs is shit.
but i fail to see these guys rinsing out 8c at the crag. certainly i've not witnesses them.

now to the crux.
i'm sure there are better ways than yoga for core strength. i can't see olympic gymnasts rumbling up to the gym and doing 8 hours of yoga. no they're on the rings and shit. granted handstands and stuff do make an appearance in yoga.
i like yoga, but i don't think its the best use of time to climb harder.
certainly since i've been at work i stopped doing yoga and did more fingerboarding and ab exercises and my grade has gone up. (yes a case study of 1!)
and yes i do sit ups and i've never had a back problem( i'm obviously gonna pop a disc out now). in fact i view my core as being my strong point and am a big fan of front levers

anyway back to picking on lund

[Johnny Brown]

Now I'm going to fuck off, and decide whether I want to cancel my fucking account on this piece of shit.  I've had it with this bollocks.  Frankly, people like you turn this place, which I thought was for people who actually gave a shit about climbing hard rather than just being on t'interweb, in ukclimbing, and I can't stand that fucking place.

Genius - one of the funniest things I've read here in a long time.

The best thing is Lund seems genuinely annoyed by punters doing Yoga? WHY? As I said earlier, maybe they want to. There are a lot of training obsessed idiots in climbing who don't seem to have the perspective that most people boulder for fun, not power. Why do you care what they want to do. Get a fucking grip.

If you REALLy want to get better at climbing Lund, why not leave Lundon and live somewhere decent for climbing? Or do you enjoy training more than climbing? Wanting is often better than getting after all.

[Paul B]

But then I saw Dense's post on the other thread about pull-ups on a mono whilst weighing 12 stone and I was inspired.

I think we've found the route of the problem, being inspired by Dense isn't a healthy thing.

[shark]

If you REALLy want to get better at climbing Lund, why not leave Lundon and live somewhere decent for climbing?

Lundy ?

[Norton Sharley]

Slackers:  Please add to the UKB Wiki the definition of a "Lundy" (apart from being the island full of lovely granite climbing) as being someone who really wants to climb hard, is a training beast, but lives in London?

[a dense loner]

i think you'd be a bit upset johnny if u walked round the corner to westside n found a few guys gettin down with the dog

[Johnny Brown]

Not at all, I blundered into a certain individual doing Tai Chi at the Secret Garden once and it made my day. Especially when he proceeded to burn me off using imaginary holds. Its not the Castle after all.

[lagerstarfish]

people boulder for fun

And here we see further corroboration of Long's corollary of Godwin's Law

Long's corollary: As an online discussion about climbing grades or training grows longer, the probability of involving "climbing for fun" approaches 1.
It should be noted that this probability increases at a faster rate (by a factor of between 10 and 10⁴) if Long himself is involved in the discussion

:SOCIALSCIENCE:

[lagerstarfish]

Slackers:  Please add to the UKB Wiki the definition of a "Lundy" (apart from being the island full of lovely granite climbing) as being someone who really wants to climb hard, is a training beast, but lives in London?

An excellent idea.

Lund should be proud of his legacy.

Are there degrees of lundiness - "I feel a bit less lundy since moving to Watford" - or is it going to be a noun only?

[a dense loner]

Not at all, I blundered into a certain individual doing Tai Chi at the Secret Garden once and it made my day. Especially when he proceeded to burn me off using imaginary holds. Its not the Castle after all.

excellent, u saw zaf at his local's local bouldering hotspot which just so happens to be the only place in the peak where snake hips will get u up everything, apart from which he's also very talented at that kind of thing. i saw the same guy at burbage north shaking like a shitting dog up an overhang with no footlocks or heelhooks which i then cruised in trainers, it wasn't the secret garden after all. no medals required just another slant on the discussion. this threads great

[Norton Sharley]

Are we still talking about yoga or just technique? 

[Jim]

this best thing about this thread is that no-one is really sure what they are arguing about

[saltbeef]

i am and so is my wife

[Jim]

I thought you were in a civil partnership with the local milk-man.
Question

[a dense loner]

i haven't got a clue what i'm talking about or where this discussions going, but in for a penny...

[Jim]

this is what I think is going on:
question as to wether or not yoga is good for core strength, universal NO as shown by poll, Lund trying to say that yoga isn't really going to make you a better climber, Johnny thinks people go climbing for a bit of fun/healthy exercise. Dense has something good to say for once and saltbeef has run out of lube for his rubber fist.