[The Sausage]

Hi Rich, sorry for dropping you in it re: MA grade! However, really enjoyed reading your 'justification'.

[jonjon]

Everything got 8a+ in the day, that's why we had graded lists, so you could see which of the 8a+'s were 8B.

If Rockfax continue their grade creep it wont be long before flying buttress direct is harder than Monumental. 

[uptown]

Everything got 8a+ in the day, that's why we had graded lists.

Looking in the seminal power of climbing list -
Masculine, Monumental, Mandella(sic!), Zeke, Culloden were all 8b (all now 8a+?)
Magnetic and Predator get downgrades thrown at them regularly.
Well Dunne and The Ripper would propably suffer too if people did them.
Funny - it turns out the only limestone 8b we really had back in 1991 was a boulder problem.

 

[saltbeef]

culloden is down to 8a! in the new recent developments. don't know anyone who's done it to propose the downgrade?!

[Andy B]

I thought Zeke was still 8b?

[Johnny Brown]

culloden is down to 8a! in the new recent developments. don't know anyone who's done it to propose the downgrade?!

medwards?

[Adam Lincoln]

culloden is down to 8a! in the new recent developments. don't know anyone who's done it to propose the downgrade?!

Britains tallest sport climber?

[Ru]

culloden is down to 8a! in the new recent developments. don't know anyone who's done it to propose the downgrade?!

No it's not it's 8a+ in Recent Developments. Zippy thought it was 8a and it was 8a in the draft. I did it late last year and thought it was still 8a+ so I told Simon to upgrade it again. Apparently the crimp is a bit bigger now it has been reglued back on, but I thought this was done years ago. I'm not sure if Zippy had actually been back on it.

Zeke is still 8b, but bottom end, especially if you do all the clips on lead or do the downclimb.

[uptown]

I thought Zeke was still 8b?

Direct - apparently yes, but the left-hand "90's version" clocks the 8a+ downgrade.

[Ru]

Zeke is 8b either way I reckon, but bottom end via the LH way. A fairly big hold snapped off it a while ago, but after the downgrade. This was the razor sharp crimp, which used to be a decent first joint edge that you could easily clip off apparently. Neil Pearsons said that he pulled it off whilst doing said clip.

 The RH (original) way hasn't been done for years I don't think. I pulled a tuft of grass out of one of the pockets on it last year.

[Andy B]

I thought Zeke was still 8b?

Direct - apparently yes, but the left-hand "90's version" clocks the 8a+ downgrade.

Of the 15 ascents on 8a.lookatme 15 took 8b. Did they all go direct or climb the easiest sequence?

[Jaspersharpe]

culloden is down to 8a! in the new recent developments. don't know anyone who's done it to propose the downgrade?!

medwards?

He proposed an upgrade to 8c+.

[jonjon]

Logical conclusion to all this 8b talk is we'll have no 8a+'s in the Peak  except of course Entree?

[Jaspersharpe]

And Revelations. 

Culloden definitely used to be 8b but it wouldn't take much of an improvement to the crimp (if it's the one I'm thinking of) to make it a LOT easier as it's basically a three move boulder problem on stilts. I'd have said it was about 7C+/8A in it's original state IIRC. Obviously no idea what it's like now.

[uptown]

Interesting that Neil Mawson did MA yesterday and reckoned it to be one of the easier 8a+'s on the crag. He also notes that Devonshire is "definately stretching the 8a+ grade" and that R'n'P is "Prob 8b anywhere other than the peak." All food for thought (and debate) I'm sure.

[Bonjoy]

Bizarre, R'n'P seemed a very steady 8a+ to me, much easier than MA. I guess one must suite me and the other not. Either that or other people are making a meal out of R'n'P, or I'm making a meal out of MA, or both. I give up.

[dave]

I guess one must suite me

Does it pay for you to stay in a posh hotel room?

[The Sausage]

I guess one must suite me

Does it pay for you to stay in a posh hotel room?

He's made a replica for relaxing on in his front room.

[Doylo]

Interesting that Neil Mawson did MA yesterday and reckoned it to be one of the easier 8a+'s on the crag.

A few folk have mentioned to me that MA is the pumpiest of the 8a+s. If this is true i'm not surprised its the easiest for Inspector Mawsons. He is a stamina jock after all!

[sharpholds]

I'll get back into my box in a jiffy I promise, but I couldn't resist a wee post...

Surely time to man-up guys? MA was only ever mid-rank 8a+ at max. About the same as Four Door? Sure it's technical and sequency and involves thinking a bit rather than just pulling down - and fair enough if ur a bit on the short side it's definately harder - but MA 8b? I wish! Get thee onto 42 or Monsterosity if ur looking for something with an edge to it or Klem's Snatch. Love Amongst... or Waddage must surely be about the bottom 8b's not MA?

Back into my box now... BTW, still sulking re Nemesis getting down-graded all those years ago. It felt 'ard to those of us who didn't have campus power and were taught to climb with three points of contact...

[Ru]

Surely time to man-up guys? MA was only ever mid-rank 8a+ at max. About the same as Four Door?

8a+ it is then. Who says you can't grade things without going on them. It's already 8a+ on my massive list of uk sport routes of 8a and above.

[Andy Harris]

Mt Peak 8b's of that era were downgraded by Messers Welford & Barker who had a habit of doing them in 10mins.

They downgraded Culloden from 8b after finding a toe hook out right. Now I couldn't for the life of me work this out and it only felt like a middling 8a+ without it anyway. I suspect Ben M used a rather innapropriate sequence on the 1st ascent

They even downgraded PUTP to 8a where it stuck for years.

42 was one of the only ones that stuck up.

[gme]

But wasn't 42 graded 8b+ until Nic nearly flashed it.
Great to see that nothing has changed in fifteen years and we still argue on grades.
The old rule should still stand that if there is any doubt at all about the grade down it goes

[uptown]

The old rule should still stand that if there is any doubt at all about the grade down it goes

But as Sharpholds said himself.....

where are the skeleton's in the Peak? Well for a start, ask yourself if the 8b/8a+ boundary is in the right place at present, 'cos with only eight 8b's and with thirty five 8a+’s you might well wonder if a different system is being used. You might redress the balance a tad by upping Boot Boys, Superfly and Albatrossity Direct to 8b, to name but three of the proper ‘ard 8a+’s. And by the way these figures assumes that Revelations weighs in at 8b which is more that a bit controversial to say the least!

I shall mostly be trying 42, Snatch or Love amongst tomorrow. 

[Bonjoy]

But as Sharpholds said himself.....

where are the skeleton's in the Peak? Well for a start, ask yourself if the 8b/8a+ boundary is in the right place at present, 'cos with only eight 8b's and with thirty five 8a+’s you might well wonder if a different system is being used. You might redress the balance a tad by upping Boot Boys, Superfly and Albatrossity Direct to 8b, to name but three of the proper ‘ard 8a+’s. And by the way these figures assumes that Revelations weighs in at 8b which is more that a bit controversial to say the least!

Indeed.
Just to add to the confusion I found Albatrossity Direct way easier than MA.