[Doylo]

Amazing. Such decisive movement. Difficult to tell he's onsighting at times. Comparing this with the footage of Megos on UK lime really does leave you with the impression that Ondra is in a different league, even compared to someone who has also onsighted 9a.

Goes without saying

[Muenchener]

You're only saying that because Ondra hasn't publicly dissed LPT.

[Doylo]

95 grade 9's and 14 8c+s onsight 

[bendavison]

95 grade 9's

Several of which are 9b's or 9b+'s, of which Megos has done none (I think?)

[Doylo]

95 grade 9's

Several of which are 9b's or 9b+'s, of which Megos has done none (I think?)

Plus Caff did Unjustified quicker than him... Ok ill stop now 

[Moo]

We 're not seriously comparing Ondra with anyone else though are we

[Mark Lloyd]

For all his 9a onsights and 9b red points he still hasn't done Hubble circa 1990 Benjamin "the daddy" moon

[Lopez]

95 grade 9's

Make that 96.

That's 4 9's in 4 consecutive days.

[bendavison]

For all his 9a onsights and 9b red points he still hasn't done Hubble circa 1990 Benjamin "the daddy" moon

Or stretchers wall at Bowden doors.

[Danny]

95 grade 9's

Make that 96.

That's 4 9's in 4 consecutive days.

I have amazement fatigue when it comes to these little nuggets of info. He pretty much 'goes cragging' at >8C+ whilst the best of the rest put together probably don't seem to match this frequency of hard ascents. I exaggerate, but not that much.

The real question is whether Ondra is just the first of many that can achieve this sort of standard, or whether he is just so far ahead that he may never be matched on a regular basis? The past few years give me the impression that it's the latter. Yet look at the standard-at-age achievements of Ashima, Kai and Mirko; he could well be the first of many. It must be strange for the 21+ish generation climbing at the current cutting edge, looking back at this tidal wave of youth ability. Interesting times.

Tangential thought: despite being the 'best climber in the world' for quite a while, Sharma didn't give us the first of any grade (probably, possibly?). Not that that really matters.       

[moose]

Tangential thought: despite being the 'best climber in the world' for quite a while, Sharma didn't give us the first of any grade (probably, possibly?). Not that that really matters.     

Wasn't Realization the first 9a+? At least the first without a whiff of controversy anyway (as I think Akira might have beat it).  And was Jumbo Love the first 9b?

[Muenchener]

the best of the rest put together probably don't seem to match this frequency of hard ascents. I exaggerate, but not that much.

Not very much at all. I checked the 8a.nu database a couple of weeks ago, at which point there were just over 70 ascents of 9a and above logged in the previous twelve months. Adam Ondra: 20, Ramonet: 10, Rest Of The World: the other half-ish

OK, Chris Sharma isn't in there but I don't get the impression he bangs the hard ascents out at quite the same rate.

[Muenchener]

Wasn't Realization the first 9a+? At least the first without a whiff of controversy

That, I think: plus the first obvious major classic at the grade at a non-obscure crag.

See also Joe Brown. Not the first person to climb "extreme" in the UK, but the first to knock out a string of obviously superb classics at the grade all over the place.[/offtopic]

[Clart]

Noooo, Alex Huber did 9a+ long before. Fred Roulings was also doing similar things off difficulty back in the 90's. There was chilam balam (sp?) given 9b+ by Fernandez at the time but slightly downgraded to 9b by Ondra. Always seems strange that these ascents are ignored. Bit like j.dunne, maybe you could only climb hard if your were part of the in-crowd?
Take your point about a whiff of controversy but I believe there is no doubt over Huber's stuff.

[HaeMeS]

@ Moose:
First claimed 9a+: Orujo, Archidona, Spain. Climbed as 9a in 1998 by  Bernabé Fernández, reclimbed after removing 3 of its four artificial holds the grade went up to 9a+. Never been repeated/never got the credits it deserved (because of the artificial holds?).
First confirmed 9a+ Open Air, Schleierwasserfall, Austria climbed by Huber in 1996 and repeated by Ondra in 2008.
First claimed 9b: Akira, Eaux Claires, France by Rouhling in 1994.
First confirmed 9b: Chilam Balam, Villanueva del Rosario, Spain. Claimed as 9b+ by  Bernabé Fernández, confirmed at (soft) 9b by Ondra.

From: http://desnivel.com/escalada-roca/los-29-miembros-del-club-espanol-del-noveno-grado
"1. Bernabé Fernández (6 novenos)

El escalador malagueño fue un fenómeno precoz y superdotado. A principios de la década de 1990 realizó las primeras españolas de un 8c (Harakiri, 1991) y de un 8c+ (Mojave, 1994). En 1998, lanzó la noticia de haber encadenado el primer 9a español con Orujo en Archidona. La polémica la cubrió desde el primer momento, debido al hecho de ser una vía notablemente 'manufacturada', con cuatro presas de resina añadidas. Después del encadenamiento, el mismo Bernabé Fernández decidió quitar tres de esas presas y volvió a encadenar la línea, rectificando la cotación hasta 9a+... era la primera propuesta de 9a+ del mundo, para una vía nunca repetida.

La polémica persiguió de forma virulenta a Bernabé Fernández años después, cuando anunció haber encadenado Chilam Balam en Villanueva del Rosario. En aquel entonces (2003), propuso un grado inédito de 9b+, pero nunca aparecieron testigos ni pruebas de aquella histórica ascensión. Adam Ondra en 2011 encadenó el larguísimo itinerario proponiendo un grado de 9b, sin dudar de la ascensión del andaluz ocho años antes."

Edit: Posted accidentally before finishing my typing.

[abarro81]

Never been repeated/never got the credits it deserved (because of the artificial holds?).

 Controversies aside.

Answered your own question there. Lots of scepticism about routes by BF I believe...

[Nibile]

At the time I had a subscription to Desnivel, and despite the fact that they ran the news about Fernandez's routes, they also ran interviews to other climbers, and basically no one believed him. We were still far from the days of "it's either on video or it did not happen" but still, he gave few details of the ascents.
Andrada thought he never actually climbed Chilam. He went there and tried it, and despite the fact that Fernandez had affirmed having tried the route for more than a year, he could not find neither chalk nor rubber marks in any place.
This is what I read.

[moose]

Was the Huber route (or routes) acclaimed as 9a+ at the time or have they been upgraded since - due mainly to Ondra finding them old skool hard?

[Jaspersharpe]

At the time I had a subscription to Desnivel, and despite the fact that they ran the news about Fernandez's routes, they also ran interviews to other climbers, and basically no one believed him. We were still far from the days of "it's either on video or it did not happen" but still, he gave few details of the ascents.
Andrada thought he never actually climbed Chilam. He went there and tried it, and despite the fact that Fernandez had affirmed having tried the route for more than a year, he could not find neither chalk nor rubber marks in any place.
This is what I read.

I seem to remember that he demonstrated some pretty decent links on it to Ondra / Sharma not that this proves anything whatsoever other than that he had obviously attempted it a fair bit.

Bit like j.dunne, maybe you could only climb hard if your were part of the in-crowd?

 

[HaeMeS]

@Nibs: have you seen the video of Bernabe trying Chilam Balam in 1999? Nice pants.

Bernabe has posted several vids of him climbing al least large PARTS of the hard routes he claimed. All of them seem really long i.e. (ultra-) endurance. Once you can do the moves and invest the time... you can climb the route innit? 

More on: http://www.bernabefernandez.com/
And: https://www.youtube.com/user/Rupicandu

@Moose: Open Air was claimed as XI or 9a by Alex Huber at the time.

[jwi]

Once you can do the moves and invest the time... you can climb the route innit?

Absolutely not. That's totally bull. There are plenty of routes on which can do all the moves and big links quite easily but will never be fit enough for.

[Nibile]

I only posted what I read...
 
And despite the fact that the videos show probably fifteen moves on a 60 meters long route, those are NICE PANTS!!!

[Lopez]

First claimed 9a+: Orujo, Archidona, Spain. Climbed as 9a in 1998 by  Bernabé Fernández, reclimbed after removing 3 of its four artificial holds the grade went up to 9a+. Never been repeated/never got the credits it deserved (because of the artificial holds?).

 A bit more complicated than that... He claimed his sequence was 9a, so after he climbed it he sikaed a number of natural holds he claimed not to use, removed a bunch of the resin holds, took the hammer to yet more holds that Andrada was using, and called it 9a+ even though it hasn't been climbed since the facelift. (He re-climbed it before taking anything out but skipping holds)

[SA Chris]

What kind of shit is that to do?

[bigtuboflard]

Once you can do the moves and invest the time... you can climb the route innit?

Absolutely not. That's totally bull. There are plenty of routes on which can do all the moves and big links quite easily but will never be fit enough for.

+1. I've never been good on routes; I thought all the moves on Austrian Oak as an example were pretty easy, but never got close to linking it as only ever trained to boulder and train on a board, ran out of steam way before the top