[Fiend]

My motives are like everyone else's, posting my opinion on the subject. And I don't believe it has to be an either / or situation.

[Jim]

this is marmite fiend, your in or out. No middle ground 

[Fiend]

Marmite....is okay, I quite like it 

[slackline]

Marmite....is okay, I quite like it 

So you don't quite dislike it then, and are therefore "in" on that front 

I'm curious as to what someone who's agnostic on this topic actually does?

Have you taken homeopathic remedies in favor over conventional medication that has been prescribed by your doctor (or even as an adjunct)?



After all, you can sit on your fence all day, but you're going to have to get down off of it somewhen (and yes there are holes in said that allow you to pass from one to the other freely).

[cofe]

I'm curious as to what someone who's agnostic on this topic actually does?

not give a fuck? 

[slackline]

I'm curious as to what someone who's agnostic on this topic actually does?

not give a fuck? 

Ah, but Fiend has recently had a medical condition that needed treatment, which did he opt for, science-based medication or water with engrams?

[dave]

or marmite?

[Clart]

Bottom line, my taxes go towards this horseshit  .

[Clart]

This is also worth a watch:

[Fiend]

- or

[slackline]

- or

Thats lame!  You're saying you're agnostic, but you're not!  You've had to choose a treatment regime for your condition.  Even if you went with a scientific medical treatment it would be interesting to here if you supplemented it with homeopathy.  Fair enough if you don't want to share all of your personal medical history online, but you have chosen a regime of treatment (and did post about it on these forums).

For anyone who's really interested there are a number of systematic reviews on homeopathy in the Cochrange Library.


Asthma

Until stronger evidence exists for the use of homeopathy in the treatment of asthma, we are unable to make recommendations about homeopathic treatment.

Dementia

The researchers did not find any good quality trials and so cannot say whether it is or is not effective for treating this condition. As no information is available on how much homeopathy is used for dementia, it is difficult to say whether it is important to conduct more trials.

Osteoarthritis (Not completed, proposal for review only)

attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder or hyperkinetic disorder

Overall the results of this review found no evidence of effectiveness for homeopathy for the global symptoms, core symptoms or related outcomes of attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder.

adverse effects of cancer treatments

Two studies with low risk of bias demonstrated benefit: one with 254 participants demonstrated benefits from calendula ointment in the prevention of radiotherapy-induced dermatitis, and another with 32 participants demonstrated benefits from Traumeel S (a complex homeopathic medicine) over placebo as a mouthwash for chemotherapy-induced stomatitis. These trials need replicating. Two other studies reported positive results, although the risk of bias was unclear, and four further studies reported negative results. The homeopathic medicines used in all eight studies did not seem to cause any serious adverse effects or interact with conventional treatment. No cancer treatments were modified or stopped because of the homeopathic interventions.

Oscillococcinum for preventing and treating influenza and influenza-like syndromes

It is claimed that Oscillococcinum (or similar homeopathic medicines) can be taken either regularly over the winter months to prevent influenza or as a treatment. Trials do not show that homoeopathic Oscillococcinum can prevent influenza. However, taking homoeopathic Oscillococcinum once you have influenza might shorten the illness, but more research is needed.

Induction of Labour

The review of trials found there was not enough evidence to show the effect of a homoeopathy as a method of induction. More research is needed.

In general not very positive for homeopathy working, although most acknowledge that more well designed studies are required.  This begs the question of why those who produce homeopathic treatments aren't funding the research to prove that their products are as effective as they claim to be?  This is after all exactly what the big pharma companies do!

[jfw]

What's a more worthy cause than fighting big business taking advantage of people so desperately ill that they're prepared to buy into this snake oil crap?

It's a vile way to make money and should rightfully be fought against.

I think this could describe the majority of drug companies/big pharma - not just homeopathic distributors

[Fiend]

Gah, can't you lot get back to bullying Johnny Footwork 

Oh well, since I was asked a direct question:

Slackers: Personally I am taking conventional medicine as I often do. I have taken homoepathic medicine occasionally in the past and would do so again in addition to conventional medicine. I don't believe the lack of clear scientific proof FOR something automatically translates to conclusive proof against it. The end.

[slackline]

Gah, can't you lot get back to bullying Johnny Footwork 

Oh well, since I was asked a direct question:

Slackers: Personally I am taking conventional medicine as I often do. I have taken homoepathic medicine occasionally in the past and would do so again in addition to conventional medicine. I don't believe the lack of clear scientific proof FOR something automatically translates to conclusive proof against it. The end.

 

Then as per the cartoon below (religious logic) surely the producers of the homeopathic medicines have a responsibility to demonstrate that they work in a reliable and reproducible manner (just as the laws, both UK and EU, oblige pharma companies to do with their drugs), rather than sitting back and saying "You can't prove it doesn't!" (which unlike religion can and has been investigated and has shown that its a bit flaky).

[chris20]

Homoeopathic treatment = no more homosexuals ??    http://shelleytherepublican.com/

got to be a piss take!?

[Jaspersharpe]

No he's just gone to a meeting of the Gritstone Association of Yeomanry Showponies.

[Johnny Brown]

No, I've been at work. Gruff, I appreciate this is an emotive topic for you and respect your opinion. My opinion differs.

I've already said I don't 'believe' in homeopathy, and I'll add to that that I've never used it and would be unlikely to. However I have said I wouldn't write it off entirely, and I certainly wouldn't support it being banned. Slackline's sources above, such as:

Two studies with low risk of bias demonstrated benefit: one with 254 participants demonstrated benefits from calendula ointment in the prevention of radiotherapy-induced dermatitis, and another with 32 participants demonstrated benefits from Traumeel S (a complex homeopathic medicine) over placebo as a mouthwash for chemotherapy-induced stomatitis.

would suggest my position is sensible. Most of the rest Slack-line quotes suggest more research; only one stated 'no evidence of effectiveness'. It would appear the professional scientists are also aligned with my position. You may think they are being diplomatic by saying 'more research needed', they arent; they are acknowledging the inadequacy of the research. True science doesn't extrapolate 'weak evidence' to 'its all bullshit', as you lot seem to.

[slackline]

No, I've been at work. Gruff, I appreciate this is an emotive topic for you and respect your opinion. My opinion differs.

I've already said I don't 'believe' in homeopathy, and I'll add to that that I've never used it and would be unlikely to. However I have said I wouldn't write it off entirely, and I certainly wouldn't support it being banned. Slackline's sources above, such as:

Two studies with low risk of bias demonstrated benefit: one with 254 participants demonstrated benefits from calendula ointment in the prevention of radiotherapy-induced dermatitis, and another with 32 participants demonstrated benefits from Traumeel S (a complex homeopathic medicine) over placebo as a mouthwash for chemotherapy-induced stomatitis.

would suggest my position is sensible. Most of the rest Slack-line quotes suggest more research; only one stated 'no evidence of effectiveness'. It would appear the professional scientists are also aligned with my position. You may think they are being diplomatic by saying 'more research needed', they arent; they are acknowledging the inadequacy of the research. True science doesn't extrapolate 'weak evidence' to 'its all bullshit', as you lot seem to.

In which case they shouldn't be being marketed as "Treats X, Y and Z" until proven to be effective in doing so!

This is my stand point, and why I don't think they should be on the market at all.

And two-studies with a combined sample size of 286 is the sort of thing I'd expect from cosmetic companies, it also doesn't indicate how much of a benefit there was (effect size) and whether the benefit was of clinical significance (haven't actually read the original articles myself).

[cofe]

[Sloper]

No, I've been at work. Gruff, I appreciate this is an emotive topic for you and respect your opinion. My opinion differs.

I've already said I don't 'believe' in homeopathy, and I'll add to that that I've never used it and would be unlikely to. However I have said I wouldn't write it off entirely, and I certainly wouldn't support it being banned. Slackline's sources above, such as:

Two studies with low risk of bias demonstrated benefit: one with 254 participants demonstrated benefits from calendula ointment in the prevention of radiotherapy-induced dermatitis, and another with 32 participants demonstrated benefits from Traumeel S (a complex homeopathic medicine) over placebo as a mouthwash for chemotherapy-induced stomatitis.

would suggest my position is sensible. Most of the rest Slack-line quotes suggest more research; only one stated 'no evidence of effectiveness'. It would appear the professional scientists are also aligned with my position. You may think they are being diplomatic by saying 'more research needed', they arent; they are acknowledging the inadequacy of the research. True science doesn't extrapolate 'weak evidence' to 'its all bullshit', as you lot seem to.

The point is JB, the evidence isn't weak it's non existant, I'm using evidence in legal manner that is, is the evidence of a quality on which one can place reliance and does it make the matter at issue more or less probable.

Self referencing and solipsistic observations are not of a quality on which one can rely, nor do they make the matter (i.e. whether there is a causal effect) more or less probable.   

The trials routinely quoted by supporters of homeopathy are, without exception so flawed as to make Falling Down's view of Man Utd seem impartial and my assessment of socialism beyond criticism.

If there was any evidence that showed that homeopathy or indeed any of the alternative therapies worked they would cease to be 'alternative'.

[slackline]

Forgot to mention the Cochrane Review Library is free for all to read.

What you'll find is that the reviews they have done each will have considered more primary research papers than they report on, but many will have been discarded because their protocols/methods were shit.  Thus be wary of primary research papers claiming they found significant effects without reading their methods sections.

THe Cochrane Library is an excellent resource funded in part by NICE (National Institute for Clinical Excellence) who use the results of reviews to inform health policy.

[dave]

JB, the bottom line is homeopathic "remedies" contain no active ingredients. FACT. What are you expecting further research to uncover? Placebos are already pretty well researched as it is.

I have in my hand nothing. I can mime eating an object in my hand. Would you suggest that the theraputic properties of the nothing i've just ingested be researched? Of course not. Further researching homeopathic shit is only wasting resources. You might as well ask for research in flying pigs, or the pope being catholic.

[Johnny Brown]

Jesus, have any of you read what I've written? I'm not supporting it, I'm just suggesting that banning it is misguided. Certain people will seek out such remedies. What hippy-placebo-alternative would you prefer? One with ingredients?

[Fiend]

Cofe has won 

[Jim]

What hippy-placebo-alternative would you prefer? One with ingredients?

Yes. It would also have to taste good