[Jaspersharpe]

Jasper for treasurer!

Of course I'd be happy to help sort out the financial side of things, set up a Ltd Co. etc Unfortunately this comes at the worst possible time of year for me as the tax return deadline looms. After 31st Jan I'll have the time to do whatever might be necessary (and hopefully a bit of my own cash to chuck into the pot!). I realise this might be too late but I'm totally pulled out til then.
 

[dobbin]

BonJoy for President!

Dave as commander in chief of the armies of vitriol!

(actually both are either dads or about to be so will have even less spare time)

Single geeky man with no dependants for King!

[dave]

The problem I have with this coo-op subs idea is that you're pretty much going to shut the door on any new members, the forum will never grow again like it has done and new memberships will probably slow to a trickle.

Picture the scene, you're a boulderer who stumbles upon this forum (a forum amongst lots of other climbing forums all of which as far as I know are free to use). you get involved, and after your 50th post you get an email asking you to fork out a tenner or fuck off. You're going to fuck off, or you're going to try and scam it and re-register under a new username or get your bird to register. or you're going to just read old threads and really ration your input to make sure that you don't go over 50. Either way basically the forum will attract very few new users, the clientelle will stagnate, the forum will die.

All the best and most useful forums I've seen on the net are all ones where its totally free to read and post. This is what people expect of the internet. I feel pretty strgonly that this is why UKB has been so good over the years and attracted such a relatively diverse readership. This place has never taken itself too seriously, but asking everyone to cough up a tenner a year I recon is a step too far and will ultimately shoot us in the foot.

But as bubba has said above which everyone has seemed to ignore, he has already had interest from 2 parties, so how about we see how that pans out before jumping on this co-op subs doomsday scenario bangwagon.

[tomtom]

I was just thinking about this, and we would need to set a donation level which everyone was comfortable with. I.e. you cant have different levels or else you have some sort of wierd wealth based hierarchy (for which I have no doubt a term will exist, someone more cleverer will be along to say as much in a minute). I would argue that you/we dont want to get into the politics of managing a collective where some have more influence than others...

Yup - I think we'd have to run it like a club. Where you have members (those who contributed?) and these vote for people to run it each year (leader, treasurer, tech person etc..). Hopefully the poll will establish a level of payment people are happy with, then this could either be set or set as a suggested contribution.

Personally I dont think you could have it as some sort of meritocracy where those who payed more have more control (that would be like shelling shares - though this could be another option?) - instead have a minimum contribution and that makes you a member...

It could even be set up as a charitable organisation which has financial benefits (esp VAT afaik)... I dont know - I'm not expert on this thing - but first things first lets find out how many and how much people will pay.

[tomtom]

The problem I have with this coo-op subs idea is that you're pretty much going to shut the door on any new members, the forum will never grow again like it has done and new memberships will probably slow to a trickle.

Picture the scene, you're a boulderer who stumbles upon this forum (a forum amongst lots of other climbing forums all of which as far as I know are free to use). you get involved, and after your 50th post you get an email asking you to fork out a tenner or fuck off. You're going to fuck off, or you're going to try and scam it and re-register under a new username or get your bird to register. or you're going to just read old threads and really ration your input to make sure that you don't go over 50. Either way basically the forum will attract very few new users, the clientelle will stagnate, the forum will die.

All the best and most useful forums I've seen on the net are all ones where its totally free to read and post. This is what people expect of the internet. I feel pretty strgonly that this is why UKB has been so good over the years and attracted such a relatively diverse readership. This place has never taken itself too seriously, but asking everyone to cough up a tenner a year I recon is a step too far and will ultimately shoot us in the foot.

But as bubba has said above which everyone has seemed to ignore, he has already had interest from 2 parties, so how about we see how that pans out before jumping on this co-op subs doomsday scenario bangwagon.

Yup - in my eyes once it was paid for etc.. it wouldnt be an exclusive club - anyone could still read and comment on the board for free exactly as it is now - just it would be 'owned' by the (more excliusive) members...

[fatdoc]

we have a SMF forum expert... a will to pay Bubba out & a timeline

( after end of the month)

this is sounding promising.

we could keep all the other intrastructure (i.e: the moderation) the same.. most of the mods have just been mentioned above anyway..

sorry..not seen the poll yet - but there is a percieved will to sort this from the forum user base... but.. and it's a big one... will the hardcore actually stump enough cash to ensure they still get this place as is??? I think we all agree any outside ownership would ( through no fault of theirs) change the place.

We need to pledge some cash, or we lose this place.

I'm in, as I've said.

co-op subs... only after 50 / 100 /500 posts wouldnt close the door on new members IMO

I'll pootle off to the poll now.

[Bubba]

Once it's sold I'm more than happy to offer any assistance with getting the new developer up to speed and helping with all the server stuff, etc. I'm sure Dobbin is more than capable of all that anyway.

[dobbin]

Oh jesus! what I have committed myself to! seriously, its not like bubs is going to suddenly never speak to me again (!), theres no worries on that front, is the least of our concerns.

Dave, I dont imply any sort of you have to pay to post ever thing. I mean, we form a collective, buy the site, run it as is, and over the years recoup some or all of the cost through banners and click through. If click through pays the running costs then thats the revenue covered and we have just capital to get as much back as we can. Some of this could be from the banner ads, some will undoubtedly be lost forever.

[dave]

word to be clear I recon your idea Dobbin has legs, I recon the subs ideas don't (was replying in general to the posted ideas above not yours specifically).

obviously a sympathetic wholesale takeover by one party would probably be preferable to either. depending on the owner I recon a new ower would have far less impact on what makes this forum work than a subs system.

[Jaspersharpe]

  As stated on the poll thread.

[tomtom]

 

Lets see how many people will poll.. and we'll have to leave it running for a few days.. but all these ideas and this enthusiasm is good.

[slackline]

Being the awkward barsteward I am I'd actually be willing to put in something between £100 and £200 but could only vote for one so don't take the votes as written.

One option that might be worth considering if you want to add a subscription is to offer subscribers something for their money.  Like perhaps, if csurfleet were amenable to the idea, access to a training diary. 

I don't think completely closing the doors by a larger subscription would be wise as dave points out, the forums wouldn't grow (in fact over time they'd likely decrease due to people leaving but no new comers).

If people would like to see a return on their investment (or even just have a pool of cash to cover running costs) then I reckon improving the wiki would be the best approach.  At the moment there are a three forum articles that I wrote about posting pics, using quotes and getting round firewalls etc. and only one bouldering article (the glossary isn't filled in, yet).  Take a look at the common questions new posters ask, "What shoes?", "How can I build a woodie?", "How should I train", "I've fucked my finger what do I do?".  Having these as a resource on the site would add value and attract additional visitors, some of whom would click through (after adding subtle banners to the wiki).

Fear not Dobbin, I'd be more than happy to take responsibility (or share it) for the technical administration of the site 

[dobbin]

Slackline for Chairman of the WIKI!

[magpie]

Dave, I dont imply any sort of you have to pay to post ever thing. I mean, we form a collective, buy the site, run it as is, and over the years recoup some or all of the cost through banners and click through.

I post on a another forum that is run and paid for by members, it's a voluntary thing with no fixed amount and is done on the basis that when we run out of money for hosting costs etc people stick more cash in, not everyone contributes but we've found that if people spend hours a week somewhere then they are usually keen to do their bit to keep it around if they can.  All you need on top of donations are people willing to volunteer their time and skills.  I don't think it would be hard to do something similar here, to raise a lump sum for Bubba and then to cover costs over time.

[Houdini]

Here's a guinea, lad

[fatdoc]

I agree with magpie.

I'm still in some sorts of subs camp, this seems a good halfway house.. I do hear the pleas of stagnation if there is a subs only access system, but some form of ongoing fees / costs will have to met from someone. It's either a 3rd party outright owner or a group of dedicated users.

To avoid duplication I'll post on this subject on this thread - as having the much needed poll with an active thread under it is causing me some confusion!!

[dave]

but some form of ongoing fees / costs will have to met from someone.

bubba has already said that the click-through ads pretty much cover the running costs.

[slackline]

To avoid duplication I'll post on this subject on this thread - as having the much needed poll with an active thread under it is causing me some confusion!!

Good choice! (The poll requests that discussions are kept to this thread  )

[Fiend]

I would contribute.

I quite like the idea of UKB being bought and owned by an "across the board" spectrum of top posters, who could include the following:

Slackline - tech support
Dobbin - tech support & forum hunk
Lagers - someone to laugh with
Jasper - someone to laugh at
Dave - to keep it hood enough
Bonjoy
Johnny Brown
Paul B - to keep Johnny in check
Magpie - token burd / fluff
R-man - in charge of lists

That'll do for 10.

[magpie]

but some form of ongoing fees / costs will have to met from someone.

bubba has already said that the click-through ads pretty much cover the running costs.

If people are willing to donate their time to be moderators and to do odd bits of sorting out technical stuff, which it sounds like a core of people are, then all you really have to cover are hosting costs, which aren't really much at all (as far as I understand it).

Plus, if the site did require regular injections of cash, it would only be small amounts, a few hundred quid, which is easily raised by asking everyone who posts semi-regularly to chuck in a few quid, which is less in your face and off-putting than paying a subscription, I think.

[Fiend]

I post on a another forum that is run and paid for by members....we've found that if people spend several hours a week day somewhere then they are usually keen to do their bit to keep it around if they can. 

Corrected that typo

[Falling Down]

It's a funny coincidence but I usually make a donation to UKB via PayPal at this time of year but was hunting for the PayPal button last week and couldn't find it.

Perhaps if there was a more prominent 'donate' section to the site it would see more voluntary submissions and avoid the need for a subscription.

I'd be happy to donate/write off 100 or 200 quid up front to ensure the forums continued in their current format, run as a not for profit entity, owned and managed by a co-operative.

Cards on the table, I contacted Bubba to say I might be interested in buying (before you all ask, no I don't have ten grand lying around  ) , but I'm struggling to see how I could return that level of investment without turning the site into something much more commercially oriented.  The Co-Op buy-out and then run the site on a donation model is a much more attractive proposition all round IMHO.

[north_country_boy]

Dobbin's idea sounds like a good one, and i'm sure there is potential for all involved to make there investment back over a short period of time.

The Bleau.info idea for the UK could also work, but on a wider scale with the current crop of regional bouldering websites, Northwalesbouldering, Yorkshiregrit, LakesBloc, Dumby.info etc providing detailed info. for areas and UKB being a central Hub for all things bouldering, the potential for a PeakBouldering website has been discussed for ages, this may be the perfect opportunity for this to start and run alongside UKB via the collective.....

Oh one more thing, what is Dense's role going to be? 

[nik at work]

I'd be willing to "buy" a share of UKB as a no return investment (although should the site become a huge commercial success I'll happily retire as a dotcom zillionaire). I'd also be happy to pay ongoing costs to keep it running. I would be wary of charging subs as this will IMHO prevent the site growing, but I'd be happy to make ongoing voluntary contributions. Also if I can contribute in some other way (i.e. time spent doing stuff) then I'm happy to do that. If it is purchased as a collective it does need to be done properly and with people having the same (or similar) expectations.
I think Bubba has put a huge amount of work and effort into this site, not to mention money, and he should see a return on that.
Interesting times...

[nik at work]

Perhaps if there was a more prominent 'donate' section to the site it would see more voluntary submissions and avoid the need for a subscription.

I think a big thermometer type thing a la "The Church Roof Fund" as seen in numerous towns across the land on every page, as funds run low the thermometer gradually obscures more and more of the page. Also maybe we could get Dave to do a gangsta/evangelical sermon on the goodness of giving which runs in a constant loop...