[tomtom]

Good topic Bonjoy.

Seconded..

1) Time, I work full(ish) time, have a family and other things in my life. Bouldering is an efficient climbing hit, trad isn't.
2) I can't be injured. A broken ankle would be bad news, anything worse would be horrendous. Obviously I could still break my ankle bouldering, but calculated risk and all that.
3) I'm not young, bouncy and quick healing anymore. A nice thick bouldering mat for me thanks.

I agree with all of the above... Boulderings just so much less faff. You can wander about on your own, meet up with some mates 0- no need for bothering with all that gear and having to find a partner..

For me climbing (bouldering, sport and trad) has the enjoyable elements of adventure, fear, strength, overcoming fear and strength limits - and what I call the aesthetics of movement - the technique, the 'that move feels good' moments.. all of these play a part in why I climb, but as I've grown older the fear part has become less enjoyable so I've moved away (almost completely) from trad...

Finally, and maybe controversially, I think bouldering is more social and boulderers more friendly.. Climbing tends to be done in two's - whereas in bouldering you can have a group of folks trying a problem or two in an area - it just seems far more friendly/social (of course this doesnt mean all chuffers are unfriendly! just my thoughts!)
T

[yorkshirewarcry]

Not much to add re the reasons for a shift towards sport climbing etc but...

On a sunny saturday this summer I was heading out to Chee Tor for a day of trad with a mate.  Drove past Horseshoe car park - rammed!  Every layby up the road also full! 

We arrived at Chee Tor to find nobody else there, and it stayed that way all day.  Sure, it's a bit of a walk-in, but it was a Saturday so most of the people at Horseshit were probably climbing for most of the day.

When we'd finished at Chee Tor we wandered up to Max Buttress to check out a couple of routes and people were queueing for routes. 

Certainly in the peak, in the summer, a very small proportion of people do seem to be out tradding.

[Scraggadoo]

Finally, and maybe controversially, I think bouldering is more social and boulderers more friendly.. Climbing tends to be done in two's - whereas in bouldering you can have a group of folks trying a problem or two in an area - it just seems far more friendly/social (of course this doesnt mean all chuffers are unfriendly! just my thoughts!)
T

I reckon it isn't as simple as that.  When you're up on a trad or sport route, you can't see the holds / sequence and it is considered a bit rude shouting out where to put feet and hands while you're x metres up the route, much to the dismay of walkers / climbers / landowners / rangers.  Reflects on climbers poorly as a whole, whereas bouldering you can do this at pretty much the same level as you're climbing at.  I certainly interact more when I'm bouldering but for the reason above.  Plus, I'm deaf - wouldn't understand you up on the route... 

[tomtom]

Finally, and maybe controversially, I think bouldering is more social and boulderers more friendly.. Climbing tends to be done in two's - whereas in bouldering you can have a group of folks trying a problem or two in an area - it just seems far more friendly/social (of course this doesnt mean all chuffers are unfriendly! just my thoughts!)
T

I reckon it isn't as simple as that.  When you're up on a trad or sport route, you can't see the holds / sequence and it is considered a bit rude shouting out where to put feet and hands while you're x metres up the route, much to the dismay of walkers / climbers / landowners / rangers.  Reflects on climbers poorly as a whole, whereas bouldering you can do this at pretty much the same level as you're climbing at.  I certainly interact more when I'm bouldering but for the reason above.  Plus, I'm deaf - wouldn't understand you up on the route... 

You're right - the process of bouldering can be more interactive and communal (?)

On the other hand I like the way with bouldering you can just do your own thing if you like (which you can do tradding of course if you like soloing/autobelaying..)

[chillax]

I agree with the point (made by a few people) thats its to do with the environment in which you're introduced to the sport. I live in Ireland with great bouldering and trad, but little or no proper sport. This has probably had some influence over the fact that I think bouldering and trad are brilliant and I want to get much better at them, and the fact that I think sport climbing is shit and I wouldn't shed a tear if i never clipped another bolt in my life.

Obviously can't comment on Peak/Yorks as I've never been. But every time I've been climbing in the UK (mainly Pembroke and N Wales), theres been plenty of folk out doing hard trad. Its certainly not dead by a long way. Though I do wish more people would come to Fair Head, its rather tricky to find regular partners up this way! 

[lagerstarfish]

One of the big things that stops me tradding to any reasonable degree is old injuries. Finger injuries really. Hanging around placing gear or working out a move makes my joints hurt and sometimes I can't use the fingers at all - which gets scary.

[shark]

Trad climbing just isn't as fulfilling. Call me a purist, but nothing beats a power scream and the tactile thrill of flesh against metal as you grab the belay.

[tc]

Hard trad climbing is unpopular because it's hard to do. And the bigger the crag, the harder it gets.

[Bubba]

I think expense is a factor as well for some people - a comprehensive trad rack costs a lot of money to build from scratch.

[SA Chris]

I think that's another symptom of the wall -> outdoor route.

When I started climbing if you didn't own trad gear you couldn't climb - it was fairly simple. So when you were on low grade routes you could get by with some slings and biners, and in my starter rack was a set of nuts and a 1/2 and 1 1/2 friends. As you went up the grades you built up more bits of kit as needed. Nowadays people expect to hit the ground running (in some cases literally) and spend money on a large trad rack to measure up to the grades they are climbing at. Plus they have spent a chunk of their income going to the wall x times a week!

[Falling Down]

Plus they have spent a chunk of their income going to the wall x times a week!

I never thought of that but you're right. I used to save up for a piece of gear each week when I were a lad.

[webbo]

when i started climbing it was really cheap to do trad as there was only about 2 pieces of gear on the market.

[SA Chris]

Plus one of the 12 Disciples was always happy to belay you.

[tomtom]

Plus one of the 12 Disciples was always happy to belay you.

cheap, below the belt and funny!

[Bonjoy]

Hard trad climbing is unpopular because it's hard to do. And the bigger the crag, the harder it gets.

Personally I find the smaller the crag the harder it gets. Small crags tend to have a lot of solos and poorly protected routes in the higher grades. As a general rule you're far more likely deck of a short hard route than a long one and this obviously weighs on the mind.

[220bpm]

Why so unpopular these days?

Cos most folk have come to their senses and gone back to doing mountain routes.

 

Theres some good answers already in this thread, but alongside these I suspect its a cyclical thing and only natural in the evolution of a sport with several differing disciplines.

[jfw]

i've never really had a a good run of lead climbing to get into trad, i don't have a history or background of doing it.

the biggest confidence booster to my trad climbing was actually a girly sport climbing holiday to costa darauda where we just did onsighting for  a week, i came back being more used to heading off above gear did a VS 5a then my first HVS (erasor slab).

in general its really hard, time wise to get this psychological momentum of climbing which i need to be able to lead. plus i end up going climbing with people loads better than me and enjoying the physical challenges of seconding over the psychological challenges of leading.

edit - i know this has nothing to do with hard trad (other than what is hard for me - i.e. all of it)

[tc]

Hard trad climbing is unpopular because it's hard to do. And the bigger the crag, the harder it gets.

Small crags tend to have a lot of solos and poorly protected routes in the higher grades.

There are plenty of those on the big mountain crags and sea cliffs, too, and the physical and psychological effort involved is in no way comparable to heading out for a day on Stanage, for example.

[Bonjoy]

I'm not suggesting that big crags don't have their fair share of chop routes, just saying that at for instance E5 a larger proportion of 10m routes will be soloes than will be the case with 70m routes. I personally get on better with safe r harder things rather than easier more serious things. While big crags have their own complicating factors like filthyness and distance from the road, as might be the case on a lot of Lakes stuff, these factors aren't directly conected to the length of the route.

[Doylo]

I stopped tradding because i couldn't do sport, bouldering and trad to a standard i was happy with. Tradding was the one to go because i was more into the physical stuff and i reckon if i'd have kept pushing the trad onsighting i would have come a cropper at some point! Not ruling out a comeback one day though.

[Pitcairn]

I think the simple reason is that there is a proportionally higher risk with harder trad routes on grit and limestone.  Of course, not all are dangerous but you are more likely to hurt yourself and most people dont like it when that happens.  Sport climbing and bouldering are generally speaking just safer.  If you sport climb a lot and climb mid 7s to 8s you should be physically capable of onsighting E6 but there is risk involved, and commitment required to do that.  Its easier to sport climb or boulder. 

I trad climb quite a lot now because there are many good well protected lines in Sweden where I live in places like Bohuslän so I can push myself physically without getting into serious positions.

[Will Hunt]

I look forward to reading and replying to this when I get back. In the mean time could you define, please, what Hard/Hardish means? E5 and above? E6 and above? E7 and above?

please say E2 and above, please say E2 and above

[Krank]

i would guess hardish trad was E4 to E6. Anything above would shirley be classed as PROPA hard trad.

[Fiend]

A: Because it's actually HARD. Pushing your trad leading is utterly desperate compared to pushing sport / bouldering even if the moves on the latter are 5000X harder the overall challenge of the former vastly outweighs it.

[tc]

A: Because it's actually HARD. Pushing your trad leading is utterly desperate compared to pushing sport / bouldering even if the moves on the latter are 5000X harder the overall challenge of the former vastly outweighs it.

 

And the history provides the proof. Standards of on-sight trad climbing have only increased v...e...r...y slowly over the last 30 years.