[Paul B]

...well its been about 3 years and with a bit of planning from the moment we arrived back, we're both getting itchy feet again.

Nat has her professional review in Oct, and I'm pretty much finished at Sheffield Uni. Unfortunately this time the sabbatical hasn't been forthcoming and her current employer only offers a quit/re-hire if we need it offer (pretty short sighted given they've essentially spent time and money getting her to this review stage but nevermind, they're too big anyhow).

So, it looks that if we're going to go travelling again it'll be completely on our terms. The questions I'd like to ask is:

When would be the ideal time to leave for Europe for a 6 month (ish) trip? Last time we left in July and initially it was harder to find areas suitable (this time we'd be throwing in some more big stuff, Dolomites etc.)

or the other plan

When would be ideal if we were looking for a West Coast trip? This would be shorter (3 months) and mostly involve ropes and stuff so big I need to go to the toilet just thinking about it. 

[shark]

When would be ideal if we were looking for a West Coast trip? This would be shorter (3 months) and mostly involve ropes and stuff so big I need to go to the toilet just thinking about it. 

I started in Hueco in February and headed up via Red Rocks and Mammoth to climb in the Valley in March/April. You could make it 6 month trip but would require renewing your visa whilst out there in which case a trip that started in the Valley in October and involved wintering out at Joshua Tree then heading back to the Valley would be awesome.

[T_B]

Just back from Northern Spain. Good valley sport climbing at Taverga and Ceuvas (Asturias) and Araotz (Basque country), as well as Naranjo de Bulnes (though I think high summer might be good, it was cold last week). Loads of other multi-pitch stuff around. Not many climbers, and hard to find info, but crags not as loose as the Dolomites! You could certainly start there in late summer.

[slackline]

Not sure how much is there, but what about the Picos de Europe?  Alpine routes upto 500m.

[jwi]

(Naranjo is in Picos.)

I have been loosely thinking about doing a long US trip again. 

Rifle looks horrible but I think it would be OK to start there to gain some fitness, then go to Indian Creek for 3 weeks to have a refresher course on jams, while not loosing to much strength (since it is vertical), followed by a longer stay in Yosemite.  After having lost all power in Yosemite turn north and go up to Bugaboos and use all the hard-won fitness on long fast free routes. (Or go to Needles because it is supposed to be absolutely fantastic.)

[duncan]

I can advise on a west coast trip!

If so big I need to go to the toilet just thinking about it means El Cap., which it should, a good work-up could go something like:

Fly to Vegas.

mid-March - mid April: Indian Creek, Joshua Tree, Red Rocks.
early May: Tahoe (optional, go straight to Yosemite if the weather is particularly good or spend more time in Utah if it is particularly cold)
mid May: Yosemite
early - mid. June: Crush!

As Jonas says, try and get in a side trip to The Needles (typically good from late May), a really wonderful place and a great antidote to The Valley which can be a bit of a zoo by then.

Simon is a fan of Yosemite in early season (April) and it is relatively quiet but the weather can be decidedly mixed in my experience.  The lower valley crags should be fine but Astroman, to pick a random example, might be wet.  I think June is a good time for El. Cap unless you are contemplating very high standard free climbing.  You have the longest days and, whilst it is getting hot on the valley floor, the updraft means temps on the walls are still very reasonable. 

[slackline]

(Naranjo is in Picos.)

 

[Johnny Brown]

West coast alternative route would be:

July/ August: Fly to Seattle, buy yankee van, cross border to Squamish, head to Bugaboos and possibly Lotus Flower
Sept: head south via Smith Rocks to Yosemite, ideally via Tuolomne and the Needles (and The Hulk)
Oct: Yosemite. When the snow comes, head south to Red Rocks via Bishop or J-Tree (and beyond my 1st hand Knowledge.
November: Moab, Zion, desert towers etc? Sell van in Vegas, fly home for Xmas

Alternatively you could do this in reverse March - August.

Was in Yosemite for Easter last year (late April) and it was a washout. Bishop was in great nick. The problem with Spring in the Sierras is the passes are shut so you can't go to Tuolomne or the Needles, and Bishop is a 9 hour drive instead of 2. Plus side there is skiing available and its quiet. And wet.

[Paul B]

I'm not sure the finances would stretch for such a long tour of the west coast but then my experience of America is limited and at the complete opposite end of the spectrum (Florida!). Is it easy enough to get a 6 month visa?

I'd also want to be sure that we weren't going prematurely. It'd be annoying to get to these places and find things like Astroman to be outside of our capabilities as a team.

Financially, a euro-tour would be safer and ultimately cheaper (no flights), we lived like dirtbags on our last trip staying in a camp site for around 6 days out of 5 and a bit months. If we did this again it'd likely be quite different as I've got routes/areas in mind rather than a 'sampling everything I can' approach.

On the other hand, it'd be unlikey (or a long time before it happened) that'd I'd manage to see so many areas of the west coast with the cost of flights making shorter trips a bit too much $$$, without doing it as a tour.

Once this is done I'd be going after a 'proper' engineering job which would probably scupper us both for a while.

[duncan]

And another thing...

If you have 3-6 months free, I definitely think you should go somewhere like the west coast (or Australia, or S. America) rather than Europe.

As they get older, most people somehow seem to acquire obligations that make long trips much more complex to arrange. Some even get Proper Jobs!  The most harassed business executive, like shark or pre-retirement thesiger, can usually manage a week or two away and this is fine for Europe where distances are short and the climbing familiar.  A two week trip to a single west coast venue is still worthwhile but the cost-benefit analysis gets weaker. 

Granite and desert sandstone crack climbing is an art and one that does not come instantly to many people.  I think it is hard to perform in Yosemite in particular if you are on a short trip.  Taking time to learn the art will result in a more satisfying trip as you will feel like you are climbing closer to your potential.  Unless you are a really strong and experienced team, I think a good strategy is to start somewhere relatively small and uncommitting (Indian Creek in spring, Squamish or Tuolumne in summer) before heading for bigger things. 

[Paul B]

November: Moab, Zion, desert towers etc? Sell van in Vegas. get that pesky wedding out of the way by means of a drive-through chapel (seriously considered this option), fly home for Xmas

[slackline]

November: Moab, Zion, desert towers etc? Sell van in Vegas. get that pesky wedding out of the way by means of a drive-through chapel (seriously considered this option), fly home for Xmas

Do it! I got married in Australia we only told our parents a week before hand so as they didn't have time to make it out.

A wedding is about the people getting married, not vicarious family.

[richieb]

A few years ago we flew in and out of Portland Oregon, had a week at Smith, a week at City of Rocks (Idaho), a couple of days in Salt Lake and a few days around Tahoe.   Something like this could be a good alternative route to the valley. Or you could loop down through Utah.
Its a long drive east to City of Rocks but we had a great time there. Good variety of granite cracks/faces/trad/sport for honing the granite skills for the valley. 
Ideally we would have flown into and out of different places but I think it was alot more expensive at the time.

[SA Chris]

Spring in the Sierras can be a problem. I was denied access to The Needles in late May due to snow closures. It was a bad (good?) year for snow though. On the other hand I believe there was so little snow last winter the Tioga didn't close?

If I had three months I would head to western US without hesitation. Most European destinations are practically weekendable but getting to the US and once set up with a vehicle it makes sense to make the most of it. And you can dirtbag it at amazing levels. Plus the weather is generally more reliable.

[Johnny Brown]

+1 to the old men's warnings about doing something big whilst you can. If you're getting into a career when you get back you never know when you'll get another chance. I've not done a trip longer than three weeks for many years and don't see it being likely in the next ten either. And I'm my own boss.

[Paul B]

+1 to the old men's warnings about doing something big whilst you can. If you're getting into a career when you get back you never know when you'll get another chance. I've not done a trip longer than three weeks for many years and don't see it being likely in the next ten either. And I'm my own boss.

that's fine, however if finances dictate that it HAS to be Europe I'd rather get that under my belt rather than none of all.

[Bonjoy]

Like the others said, go as big as you can now as it gets exponentially less feasible as you get older and more commited. AKA mortage your future a bit if you both have decent earning prospects.
Our first trip was on a round the world ticket and worked out very cheap, but we did slum it big time and worked for several months in Oz. Oz and NZ were cheap due to 2nd hand cars being low cost and easy to sell on (at a profit in one case!).

Regards when to go. If it’s Europe I don’t think you can do better than last time. You will always end up with months at the start and/or the end which are less than ideal for where you want to be. Good to have to worse months at the start of the trip when you are building fitness and then have the best at the end when you are going full guns. However if you think you might run out of motivation (some folk burn out on big trips, I’ve never had a prob with this) then this strategy risks wasting the best months, so you might want to go the other way.

[SA Chris]

that's fine, however if finances dictate that it HAS to be Europe I'd rather get that under my belt rather than none of all.

Surely that's obvious?

I think though that over a 3 month or longer period you will probably get more climbing done per pound spent than you would on a Euro trip.

I've got a copy of Tim Toula's "Rock 'n' Road" Atlas (which is far from perfect, but very useful for planning) if you want to borrow it for some ideas. I've actually climbed with him too!

[Sasquatch]

Since it looks as thought you'd be looking to leave some time in November-Januaryish, much of the west coast is out. Starting out during this period your best bets are Heuco for bouldering, or starting out at El Potrero in Mexico, then coming back to the states.  El Potrero is really cheap and would be great in Jan/Feb except for the shorter day.  Awesome long multipitch sport stuff = Great for building up day-long fitness for long stuff plus getting multipitch logistics down.  Then head to J-tree/Red Rocks/Bishop, then to the valley.

I'd imagine you could do 6mos pretty cheap if you did:
Jan/Feb - El Potrero - Cheap camping
Mar/April - Red Rocks (nice blend of sport,trad and boulder and long and short) - If you look for it you can find free desert camping.
April/May - Bishop (Yosemite for short spells) Bishop is cheap with free camping and easy access, yosemite is expensive.
June - Squamish (nice blend of sport,trad and boulder and long and short) - If you look around you can find free/cheap camping or couch surf with a local.

[SA Chris]

Since it looks as thought you'd be looking to leave some time in November-Januaryish, much of the west coast is out. Starting out during this period your best bets are Heuco for bouldering, or starting out at El Potrero in Mexico, then coming back to the states.  El Potrero is really cheap and would be great in Jan/Feb except for the shorter day.  Awesome long multipitch sport stuff = Great for building up day-long fitness for long stuff plus getting multipitch logistics down.  Then head to J-tree/Red Rocks/Bishop, then to the valley.

I'd imagine you could do 6mos pretty cheap if you did:
Jan/Feb - El Potrero - Cheap camping
Mar/April - Red Rocks (nice blend of sport,trad and boulder and long and short) - If you look for it you can find free desert camping.
April/May - Bishop (Yosemite for short spells) Bishop is cheap with free camping and easy access, yosemite is expensive.
June - Squamish (nice blend of sport,trad and boulder and long and short) - If you look around you can find free/cheap camping or couch surf with a local.

Not only weather, but a loooooong haul from California, passing City of Rocks, Smith Rocks and many other places along the way.

[Sasquatch]

Would the main point of the trip be "long stuff" i.e. mulitpitch, bouldering, Sport, Tour of everything?  The suggestion I made was aimed at the "long stuff" idea.  Even bishop has fantastic long stuff, depending on the snow year you can easily get up into the Sierra's in late April/early May and Tuolumne is a short drive as well, so Bishop works well to base from.  June is a touch early for Squampton, but see for yourself - http://www.theweathernetwork.com/statistics/cl10476f0.  It's not terrible, just not as good as July/August.

If you're looking at Boulder/Sport/Tour, the suggestion would be very different.  The nice thing about these, is that each area (barring Potrero) has quality sport (single- and multi-pitch), Quality trad (single- and multi-pitch), and quality bouldering. Plus you climb on limestone, sandstone, and granite. 

Anyway, the drive from Bishop to Squampton is about 18-20 Hrs, and you could easily stop over in Smith for a couple if you wanted to break it up (although IME, Smith in June will be very hot).  For some reason I'm not sold on City of Rocks, didn't impress me all that much.

Any which way you go, good luck and have fun!! 

[Paul B]

Would the main point of the trip be "long stuff" i.e. mulitpitch, bouldering, Sport, Tour of everything? 

I'm open to suggestion but "The best of the best" seems about right, for instance I wouldn't want to miss out on Bishop. Hueco I'm not so fussed about, it'll suit me I'm sure but the bureaucracy associated with it sounds like it'd ruin my time there.

[Sasquatch]

I'm open to suggestion but "The best of the best" seems about right.

Best of the Best of the West - IMO

Bouldering
Hueco - in spite of the regs, North Mountain is pretty easy to manage, and has plenty of quality.
Bishop
Joe's Valley
RMNP
Squamish

Sport
Ten-Sleep Canyon, Wy
El Potrero
St. George Limestone - Wailing Wall, Cathedral, Arrow Canyon, VRG, Etc.
Smith Rocks

Trad
Joshua Tree
Indian Creek
Tuolumne
Needles

Multipitch
Yosemite
High Sierra's
RMNP
Squamish
Red Rocks

I think Europe's sport climbing is so much better, there's not much point in coming here to sport climb...
he bouldering and trad stuff in the mountains are pretty incredible though. 

[Paul B]

Hueco - in spite of the regs, North Mountain is pretty easy to manage, and has plenty of quality.

Its not just the entry passes that put me off, the whole scene sounded like my idea of bouldering hell.

[Sasquatch]

Hueco - in spite of the regs, North Mountain is pretty easy to manage, and has plenty of quality.

Its not just the entry passes that put me off, the whole scene sounded like my idea of bouldering hell.

Makes sense.  I've not been down in many years, but from what I gather if you reserve camping in the park itself it's a pretty mellow scene...  and the area's plenty big enough to avoid "the scene" while bouldering.  So all in all could be doable, but why chance it.