[Stubbs]

Alex Puccio has climbed Black Lung. First female ascent?

Yep, she's killing it right now!

[T_B]

Alex Puccio has climbed Black Lung. First female ascent?

Yep, she's killing it right now!

Those recent posts on Instagram of her looking incredibly ripped are pretty impressive. I'm reading Ste Mac's book at the mo, where he talks a lot about what it means to be a 'professional climber' of an 'athlete'. Puccio looks like an athlete.

[dave]

But what's she ever done on grit?

[Fiend]

Good taste in problems there.

[JackAus]

According to Shauna's facebook, Ned has done Meadowlark Lemon...

[Doylo]

Didn't say if it was the stand or the sit?

[cofe]

Puccio looks like an athlete.

She looks like a C&A skiwear model in that photo.

Impressive stuff on Black Lung.

[Jaspersharpe]

According to Shauna's facebook, Ned has done Meadowlark Lemon...

Nice one, this problem looks amazing.

[jimpopeonarope]

Alex Waterhouse climbed Careless Torque today, Good effort!

[willackers]

Effort! 

[a dense loner]

Oh it was the stand doylo

[slackline]

According to Shauna's facebook, Ned has done Meadowlark Lemon...

About a week before holds broke on it due to people climbing on it in the wet.....

http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/broken-rules-and-broken-problems-in-red-rock-nevada

http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Safety_Health_and_Injuries/Soft_Rock_Wet_Rock_A_Public_Service_Reminder_from_Red_Rocks_1598.html

[a dense loner]

It's ok people writing these things but most people don't give a toss, esp the flying visitors. There's all sorts of advice from people saying stuff tampons into holds to dry them out, the conditions threads on where to climb today are full of it. The only sensible thing to do is not climb on wet rock for a few days but no one heeds it.

[slackline]

It's ok people writing these things but most people don't give a toss, esp the flying visitors.

....

The only sensible thing to do is not climb on wet rock for a few days but no one heeds it.

Presumably though people write articles saying not to climb on wet rock in the hope that at least some who read it heed the wisdom (even if it's just one that's useful, they'll tell their mates etc. etc.), because the authors can't realistically stand around the rocks 24/7 warding people off them.  How effective such articles are has never been quantified but it's at least trying to do 'something' rather than sitting back and waiting for an area to come under tight regulation as happened in Hueco.   

Seems quite reasonable to me that people would try and educate /protect areas that they value, akin to the work the BMC do in the UK and the Access Fund in the US. 

I can't think why people would travel (sometimes a long way*) to climb sandstone in the wet which increases the risk of breakage, potentially rendering them unclimable (at least at the original grade) and ruining their trips aims.

You're probably right though, most people aren't particularly logical and don't give a shit. Consciousness is wasted on many people.

* This is not insinuating that Ned is in anyway responsible.

[abarro81]

I can't think why people would travel (sometimes a long way*) to climb sandstone in the wet which increases the risk of breakage, potentially rendering them unclimable (at least at the original grade) and ruining their trips aims.

Because it's hard to be in an area half-way around the world for a limited period of time, and to them spend the time twiddling your thumbs when the weather is nice? even harder when the weather's been shit for the preceding few days! Not saying it's a good thing to do, but people do it all the time. I've climbed shit in font in the damp, so has everyone I've ever been to font with.

[slackline]

Because it's hard to be in an area half-way around the world for a limited period of time, and to them spend the time twiddling your thumbs when the weather is nice? even harder when the weather's been shit for the preceding few days!

That's life though, can't always have what you want. Just ask those who go mountaineering etc.

Not saying it's a good thing to do, but people do it all the time. I've climbed shit in font in the damp, so has everyone I've ever been to font with.

I have too when I was relatively new to climbing and naive about the fragility of soft rock.  A hold broke on someone too (some low grade thing as we weren't that good and still aren't) so we learnt from it, sacked climbing off for the day and went for a walk instead and waited for the rock to dry.  Not rocket science really  but if I had read something advising against climbing on wet rock and advising how long it takes for the rock to dry then I (not sure about my friends) wouldn't have tried in the first place.  That's not to say everyone would, but some might and that can only be a good thing.

My point was, if anything,  that there is no harm in writing such articles (contrary to Dense's expressed opinion) in the hope that the knowledge is out there for those who are new to climbing to heed (if they can be bothered). 

If those with knowledge /experience just say "fuck it I'm on holiday" then it doesn't set a great example* and I don't see much hope for the areas  the BMC/Access Fund / equivalent try to preserve that so many hold precious.

I would expect anyone operating at the grade of Meadow Lark Lemon would have the experience /knowledge to know this as they will have been climbing for some time. But clearly that's not the case (unless perhaps it was deliberate vandalism as has happened in font).

You can take two approaches to such problems....

a) fuck it, no one listens and people will be selfish and do what they want anyway. No point in writing anything about the fragility of rock at all.

b) try and get educational information out there and at least try and preserve areas.

It's disappointing to me that seasoned climbers like yourself and Dense appear to be siding with the former.  That said I wouldn't blame you if you've given up on humanity completely because the overwhelming evidence is that we're a "virus with shoes" but personally I try to maintain some optimism day to day.

* akin to the problems experienced in hueco and more recently albaraccin or with "tick marks" in general.

[Footwork]

If you were doing nails route in Zion you'd probably wait a bit after the rain. If your life isn't at stake you probably don't care as much.

[andy popp]

Again though, that is hardly a good excuse is it.

I agree with Slackline on this - trying to the message out about not climbing on wet rock (sandstone in particular) has to be worthwhile. Better certainly than saying, fuck it, who cares ...

I was amazed to read these as the opening lines to someone's blog recently:

"It’s August 19th. I am standing below the line My Piano at Nesscliffe. The rock is still damp and the moves seem to just about go. Extra care on the footwork is prepared. I have just broken the ‘thank-god’ hold to place the cams half way up the arête whilst head-pointing. My friend from Chamonix goes up on top-rope to flirt with the line."

By their own admission the rock is damp, they've just broken a hold, friends are still trying it on a rope, and they're contemplating going for the lead. Unbelievable. It seems the message isn't being heard.

[Johnny Brown]

Give us a link, they need the error pointing out methinks.

[Wood FT]

it's also not much fun to climb on in the wet if 'they' want a selfish reason to motivate them not to try

[ferret]

Give us a link, they need the error pointing out methinks.

http://andrehedger.blogspot.com/

[a dense loner]

Sorry slackers you misunderstand the gist of my post. Apart from the rock art hueco is pretty much banned because of the "locals" activities throughout its boom years.

As for climbing on wet rock, the author has suddenly got a conscience cos it's happening closer to home after spending weeks climbing on wet rock in swizzy last year. I've just watched a vid of magic wood, good to the point where someone does steppenwolf, 8B, on what is basically sodden pissed wet through rock the only dry rock in sight is the chalked up holds.

I hate people drying holds etc, to me that shows that the rock is wet. Obviously some rock stands up better to the elements and people trying to tear it apart than others but where is the line?

It's a can of worms basically and there's not a lot that can be done about it. Do you think someone would have listened if you told him not to try that boulder problem on that day? These trips cost a lot of money, time commitments etc. Like balls he would. Is it right? No, of course not.

[monkey boy]

Just to point out, Meadowlark didn't break due to rain. It was 3 days after the rain and the rock was dry. Meadowlark is just a very sandy boulder problem. The hold that came off was rotten behind and it was just a matter of time in my opinion.

Alex should have got in touch with people who were present when it broke, unfortunately her article insinuates that it broke due to dampness when this is not the case.

I should also point out that many people I saw climbing in Red Rocks after rain were locals but people who appeared to not have been climbing for long. The thing is, do these people read these articles? That's what needs to happen. Once people are informed, and I agree with this, then they have to make their own decision.

[Moo]

Having just read Hedgers' blog I'm struggling to decide if it's a piss take or not, I quote....

“Give me the cams, I am going to do it now.” I said softly.

E8 is the big boys league and only few achieved this level – they are the ones with the biggest balls of them all

It’s a dangerous man’s sport and I don’t know why we do this"

[slackline]

Sorry slackers you misunderstand the gist of my post.

Apologies it appears I might have done.

As for climbing on wet rock, the author has suddenly got a conscience cos it's happening closer to home after spending weeks climbing on wet rock in swizzy last year. I've just watched a vid of magic wood, good to the point where someone does steppenwolf, 8B, on what is basically sodden pissed wet through rock the only dry rock in sight is the chalked up holds.

I hate people drying holds etc, to me that shows that the rock is wet. Obviously some rock stands up better to the elements and people trying to tear it apart than others but where is the line?

A geologist would be best placed to answer that, but perhaps the line could be (arbitrarily but with some insight /experience of the local rock type ) drawn somewhere on Mohs Scale .