[Paul B]

No not the problem.... that fuel that makes a mess everytime the pump leaks down the side of your car.

So to the point: Its common place to get a re-map these days especially on diesels, I know a few people on here have had their cars mapped and I was just wondering:

Does anyone know if ECU's hold data regarding when they were changed?
Are the changes blatantly obvious or just little tweaks that would need a lot of looking to find?
If you've had it done did you get a before and after dyno?
Noticed any change in fuel economy (good or bad)?
Where did you get it done, and would you recommend them?

Places like angel tuning have answers to all of these things but i'm not sure they're the best people to trust on this.

The last Punto seemed to just have a bit more grunt than the current one, it smoked more and did better mpg, it got me thinking that it might have had a remap, it might have just been a good example but the more I think about it the more it points towards some kind of tinkering...

[Bubba]

I had a Revo Technik remap done by JBS Auto Designs in Chesterfield, who were great but their website seems mainly set up for petrol models now so not sure if they still do remaps.

Have a look at the Revo Technik FAQ for answers to some of your questions.

Mine did smoke a bit more but in general fuel economy was better when being driven slowly, and a bit worse when being thrashed. Didn't get it dyno'd but the difference was so marked there was no point really.

[Norton Sharley]

No not the problem.... that fuel that makes a mess everytime the pump leaks down the side of your car.

So to the point: Its common place to get a re-map these days especially on diesels, I know a few people on here have had their cars mapped and I was just wondering:

Does anyone know if ECU's hold data regarding when they were changed?
Are the changes blatantly obvious or just little tweaks that would need a lot of looking to find?
If you've had it done did you get a before and after dyno?
Noticed any change in fuel economy (good or bad)?
Where did you get it done, and would you recommend them?

Places like angel tuning have answers to all of these things but i'm not sure they're the best people to trust on this.

The last Punto seemed to just have a bit more grunt than the current one, it smoked more and did better mpg, it got me thinking that it might have had a remap, it might have just been a good example but the more I think about it the more it points towards some kind of tinkering...

Most re-maps involve bypassing the original ECU or modifying ECU data with an additional unit rather than what is technically a re-map, ie. actually changing the data.  So no ECU's don't hold data. 
Cos' they involve an additional unit which is simply plugged in it is totally reversible so when you haven't told your insurance company about the 20% power boost and you crash your car you just have to remember to unplug and remove the additional box before the cops get to you.
Additional power = worse fuel economy.  You are unlikely to see better round town economy without a reduction in round town performance.  Fact.

Not had the op yet on a car, remapped my CBR400 and it went like shit off a shovel!

All cars' performance output varies massively depending on type of useage, how clean injectors and fuel pump are, whether you use expensive or cheap or even the viscosity of the oil you use etc etc.  If you're really that bothered about performance you'd start with these not £500 on a 're-map'. 


And you wouldn't have a Punto, lol

[Paul B]

Most re-maps involve bypassing the original ECU or modifying ECU data with an additional unit rather than what is technically a re-map, ie. actually changing the data.  So no ECU's don't hold data. 
Cos' they involve an additional unit which is simply plugged in it is totally reversible so when you haven't told your insurance company about the 20% power boost and you crash your car you just have to remember to unplug and remove the additional box before the cops get to you.
Additional power = worse fuel economy.  You are unlikely to see better round town economy without a reduction in round town performance.  Fact.

Not had the op yet on a car, remapped my CBR400 and it went like shit off a shovel!

I don't mean to be rude but I think your wrong on a lot of your points, modern cars are built to work in any country the manfucaturer decides to sell them, this means that they run on varying air quality, air temp, altitude all of which are non specific to GB. I don't think many companies add extra items these days (chipping added just that, a chip), and the inline (unlplug before the cops get you) box's just tend to force more fuel in and lead to engine damage.

All cars' performance output varies massively depending on type of useage, how clean injectors and fuel pump are, whether you use expensive or cheap or even the viscosity of the oil you use etc etc.  If you're really that bothered about performance you'd start with these not £500 on a 're-map'. 


And you wouldn't have a Punto, lol

These are very obvious, its 200 quid for a rolling road re-map with a PROVEN bhp increase of 50bhp and 55lb/ft on top of:

Performance
Engine Size    1910 cc
Cylinders    4
0-60 mph    9.3 s
Power Output    100 bhp
Valves    8
Torque    260 Nm    192 lb-ft
Top Speed    115 mph

you'd have to do a lot of tinkering to get that increase would you not agree? Even if you change the injectors you would need a remap on top of that to stop the car smoking all the time.


Your punto comment annoys me somewhat, go look at the HGT both diesel and Petrol's and then look up the GT turbo, they're not exactly slow cars are they? And... If i could afford to run and insure something more powerful I would, but I can't and my g/f also needs to commute daily. Its a compromise and a damn good one, there are only a handful of cars that offer the same stats in the same price category, Skoda Fabia VRS, Peugeout 206 HDI.

[Bubba]

Most re-maps involve bypassing the original ECU or modifying ECU data with an additional unit rather than what is technically a re-map, ie. actually changing the data.  So no ECU's don't hold data. 
Cos' they involve an additional unit which is simply plugged in it is totally reversible so when you haven't told your insurance company about the 20% power boost and you crash your car you just have to remember to unplug and remove the additional box before the cops get to you.

No they don't - most good products do actually remap the ECU; you're talking about cheapo tuning boxes which are generally supposed to be a bit pants. Certainly my Revo remap was as it says on the tin, a remap.

[Paul B]

Cheers for the links Bubba, i've had a read of that, its pretty much what I expected i.e. if they know to look for it they're going to find it.
I was quite impressed with the fiats electronics post impact, it listed:

Engine Failure
ABS Failure
ES Failure
Airbag Failure
Door open - > Drivers 

[Jim]

Avoid getting cheapo tuning boxes and 99p resistors from ebay like the plague. They will fuck your car.
I am holding off getting mine remapped because I might be changing it. If I decide to keep it I will be going here to get it done:

http://www.p-torque.co.uk/

[Paul B]

Avoid getting cheapo tuning boxes and 99p resistors from ebay like the plague. They will fuck your car.
I am holding off getting mine remapped because I might be changing it. If I decide to keep it I will be going here to get it done:

http://www.p-torque.co.uk/

It's like when 5th gear did a test of all the producsts like redex at some uni, they all give a decrease of about 1-5 bhp... Inline boxes are going to cause problems.

Any reason in particular? they only seem to have done the 1.9 JTD, its not quite the same engine as mine.

[Jim]

The bloke came highly recomended. be worth ringing him to ask if he does yours

[Paul B]

yeah I might do that, i've been recommended a fiat specific rolling road day etc for a reasonable amount...Jim will it be ahem affecting your insurance?

[Norton Sharley]

Perhaps I wrote my previous post too quickly?

To re-write a chip you need an EPROM chip which most car manufacturers don't fit, or at least only parts are EPROM like mileage data.  Write anything to the chip and you have a record of something having changed.

Or you fit a new chip.

Or you get a dodgy in line jobby.

Or, if as I thought you were suggesting, you don't want the mod to be obvious then buy top grade synthetic oil and pay for your injectors to be cleaned and your fuel filter to be replaced very often.  And buy decent diesel.  That could easily add 10% power and efficiency.

P.s. you can't chip a CBR400 since it has carbs but none of you noticed that  .  Then it was comlicated by bigger jets and throttle cams!

And I'm very sure that your Punto is faster and better looking than my 221k miles Golf

[Bubba]

To re-write a chip you need an EPROM chip which most car manufacturers don't fit, or at least only parts are EPROM like mileage data.  Write anything to the chip and you have a record of something having changed.

Not sure where you're getting this info from Norton. VAG diesels allow the EPROM to be written to via the diagnostics (OBD) port. You plug in a laptop and reprogram the ECU's engine map. Doing a quick google it appears this is the same for Fiat too....and i'm pretty sure it's the same for most modern engines.

There's no real reason that anyone would detect a different remap unless they downloaded yours from the ECU and compared it to a stock one. It's not like there's a datestamp or version number or anything like that as far as i know.

I'm also extremely dubious that cleaning your injectors, using synthetic oil and premium diesel will give you 10% more power. It won't hurt but it's not going to give you 15hp on a 150hp modern diesel. I'm willing to be proved wrong though on that.

Also, a good remap can give you a lot more than 10% on a modern high pressure diesel engine, but it's the massive torque hike that's more impressive.

Here's a dyno graph for an Audi A4 Tdi 130:

Before:


After:


Quite a noticable change no?

[Norton Sharley]

I'm not doubting the power increases at all.  But if you're going to pay for more power, and why the hell not, why not treat the car to some other extras too that will also help increase power [or rather not decrease it]?  EPROM may only be available as part of the EMS and therefore it will depend on what make and model you have as to whether it is re-writeable or the chip needs replacing, was my point.

What the fuck do I know anyway?

[Jim]

In answer to Paul, No. I like to think they are like me, living in ignorant bliss

[Paul B]

In answer to Paul, No. I like to think they are like me, living in ignorant bliss

 

[Johnny B Badd]

Does anyone know if ECU's hold data regarding when they were changed?
Are the changes blatantly obvious or just little tweaks that would need a lot of looking to find?
If you've had it done did you get a before and after dyno?
Noticed any change in fuel economy (good or bad)?
Where did you get it done, and would you recommend them?

Places like angel tuning have answers to all of these things but i'm not sure they're the best people to trust on this.

1) If the map's on, it will show up, if its being looked for.
2) Pretty obvious driving it, as the power/torque delivery is normally more within a more useable band. On top of that, a generic map will probably give a 20-25% hike.
3) 141 - 173.
4) Slightly better, driven steady, worse when 'caining-it' 
5) AMDTechnik One-Click. You get a unit, plug it in, download the factory programme, send it back, they load a performance programme, send it back to you, you download the programme, job done. You can then switch between programmes at will eg. taking a car in for warranty jobs or selling it, re-upload the standard map. Fine for what it is, but as I'm making further 'mods' at present (200-220bhp), I'll have to get a custom-map done at the end of it.

Sorry, I can't advise you where to go (I'm a VAG man). Try the Fiat forums?

John.

[Paul B]

Sorry, I can't advise you where to go (I'm a VAG man). Try the Fiat forums?

Thanks for the advice, this is all hypothetical you understand

The fiatforums have some good recomendations and some good data to back their claims up. I like the idea of being able to change maps for warranty stuff etc. but the car is now out of that and a generic map seems less appealing than a car specific map.
The mpg is still slowly climbing so I'm wondering if its all just in my head, I remember the car being a lot swifter after its 30,000 mile dealer service which the previous owner had done at quick fit, maybe they just did a shit job of it and hence the reduced performance?