[Stabbsy]

Maybe it was Jibe’s (?) chain grab (or lack of) on Raindogs that highlighted this, but when I was a yoof in the early 90s on trips to Spain etc you’d just grab the chain. Then I remember hearing it wasn’t the done thing on the continent and stopped doing it.

This. Although it was Raboutou in my story. No idea which one (if either) is right.

If clipping the chain is a problem it should be fixed as it is an entirely artificial problem. Is it even the original chain? I did this years ago and remember the crux well enough but have no recollection of the clip being hard to make.

And this. I remember getting my hands to the New Dawn ledge pumped out of my mind and then shaking out for a while trying to recover enough to clip the draw (not extended!) or do the move onto the ledge. The top was awkward, but you could recover on the ledge so it didn’t really stick in my mind. I’m just assuming I grabbed the chain because that’s what we did then.

[Bonjoy]

About the Mescalito belay, the 1992 YMC guide says, from the New Dawn ledge "Climb up left to the top overlap and pull round this to a hanging belay." So much for history.

[Teaboy]

Probably worth having a discussion about rationalising all the belays around here. A  new one left the current YW lower off would make it easier to clip and free up the existing one for Space Race. If a new belay for Mescalito could be found that also serves Tremelo that would also ease some congestion. I’d also advocate the removal of the Raindogs belay altogether, there is now enough traffic on Rainshadow for it not to be clogged up by people dogging it to death for their first 8a
 

Re. chain grabbing on Mescalito, it was acceptable up to 2006, anyone doing it after that is the absolute worst.

[spidermonkey09]

Probably worth having a discussion about rationalising all the belays around here.

Agreed; the traffic jam at the YW belay that can occur is a pain. I was thinking of putting a new one in for Tremelo to the right of the YW one. Shared loweroffs seem to be worth avoiding if there is space available, and I think there is.

 

[IanP]

I have never thought of chain grabbing as legitimate since I started climbing in 2010 (can't think of any videos of prominent climbers grabbing chains either) so by the sounds of it it shifted sometime in the 2000s rather than the 90s? Interesting that it wasn't the norm everywhere though. Obviously I'm not having a go at Ian or anyone else!

None taken  .

As Teaboy says

 

Re. chain grabbing on Mescalito, it was acceptable up to 2006, anyone doing it after that is the absolute worst.

So thats me, always slightly out of the loop  .

More seriously, it really doesn't bother me, in the UK sport climbing often has to make the best of what is on offer and I like my sport routes to end properly.  I'll continue to ignore horrible belay clips (while being aware that this not the thing these days), at the same time I'll also climb past the belay where obvious finishing holds suggest this.  My only (personal) rule is that you have to decide how the route finishes before the redpoint and no changing just because you're too pumped when you get there.   

On the Mescalito belay , it is a long time ago but my memory is that it really made no sense at all in that not only did you finish pretty arbitrarily before the roof but then the belay was an arbitrary distance to the left. 

[SA Chris]

My only (personal) rule is that you have to decide how the route finishes before the redpoint and no changing just because you're too pumped when you get there.   

Like nominating a pocket when potting the black..

[Serpico]

Re chain grabbing Malham has a gold plated precedent with Raindogs which historically made other grabs seem variably more legitimate depending when you did it and in descending order of legitimacy: Overnite 😀 Mescalito, Frankenstein, Unjustified and Connect 4. Apart from Raindogs doesn’t seem to happen at all now.

Unjustified? That finishes stood on a ledge.
 As for Mescalito, it's a long time ago but just moving it a foot or so rightwards would be enough to make it a steady clip.
It's about the climbing, not the clipping.

[Rob F]

Pretty good couple days for the thread. Started with Shark taking a whopper and ended up with the whole of Malham getting rebolted...

[Adam Lincoln]

Bolt fund is very healthy at moment so ill sort a few belays out when we can bolt again.

Ill get the consensus  nearer time about locations and what needs doing.

[Kingy]

Mescalito is a bugger to strip for a straight up route with the current belay

[Kingy]

For a precedent, the Connect 4 belay was repositioned by the Fund in November after over 30 years in an unreachable position. Has seen several ticks this year now and hopefully will see more attention

[PeteHukb]

On the Mescalito belay , it is a long time ago but my memory is that it really made no sense at all in that not only did you finish pretty arbitrarily before the roof but then the belay was an arbitrary distance to the left.

This. It's an awkward couple of thin sideways moves from easy ground for no good reason. I never considered grabbing the chain, but certainly cursed the belay location plenty of times. +1 for moving it a metre to the right.

[Andy F]

When I did Mescalito (2009) I thought the belay was in a silly position. I can't remember exactly if I clipped or grabbed, but I think it was a clip. It would be better if it was moved IMHO. A few easyish but pointless moves which don't add to the difficulty or quality.

[TobyD]

I never would have grabbed the chain on Mescalito, but I've always thought it's a personal decision. As long as you're honest and upfront about things like this and it doesn't damage the rock or any people, I don't mind what anyone else does.

Some people may be happy with just a clean top roped ascent, that's fine with me, as long as they didn't tell their mates that they'd done it, allowing them to think that meant a lead.

[ian dunn]

The current Mescalito belay was the original Yosemite Wall belay. You used to traverse under the roof to it. When I did it in around 1990 you didn’t grab the chain you just clipped it. The only Chain grabs were; Raindogs, Frankenstein, and Extra Over after John Hartley lifted the belay up but couldn’t clip it!! Though it is possible off the flakes the right! Connect 4 was also a tricky clip / grab but then was changed to Connect 5!

[Rob F]

FFS, everyone's gonna have to do Yosemite Wall again now. 

Be like Wolf Vs Hunter on Gladiators where everyone's battling to tick the belay...

[Fultonius]

FFS, everyone's gonna have to do Yosemite Wall again now. 

Be like Wolf Vs Hunter on Gladiators where everyone's battling to tick the belay...

Just resurrecting this to say - the YW belay seems (as a first timer to the crag) to be in a great place.

Can't fathom how New Dawn gets so much hype, but maybe that's 'cos I'm too shit to do the start and am allergic to polished traverses!  The runout nearly had me taking the big ride.......

[shark]

Nez replaced the Mescalito belay in January placing it at the same height but further right.

Wouldn’t have dropped the redpoint if it had been there last year 

[Fultonius]

Nez replaced the Mescalito belay in January placing it at the same height but further right.

Wouldn’t have dropped the redpoint if it had been there last year 

I'd take the honorary retro-tick!