I'm starting to wonder if one of Shark's minion's, in collaboration with Alan James, placed that bolt during 'a quiet week for news'.
Quote from: galpinos on June 04, 2014, 04:06:48 pmQuote from: Oldmanmatt on June 04, 2014, 03:51:34 pmNah... As an outsider, very much pro-Sport. I cannot see any justification to bolt something which can be easily protected, where gear can be easily recovered by a short Abseil, on the basis that there used to be a peg/stake of dubious reliability. Why were people using a dodgy stake anyway, if abing to recover gear was straightforward? A 20m buttress? Less than half a rope? And I see from Rockfax that it's not overhanging above, correct? Is it possible to ab in an stand safely in the cave (attached to ab rope, not off belay)?It's not quite as simple as that.The top of the crag is pretty chossy so abbing into the cave invariably involves knocking stuff down onto the ground below (and anyone down there)This is a much overstated "fact". I saw someone abb off the top recently and they didn't knock anything down.
Quote from: Oldmanmatt on June 04, 2014, 03:51:34 pmNah... As an outsider, very much pro-Sport. I cannot see any justification to bolt something which can be easily protected, where gear can be easily recovered by a short Abseil, on the basis that there used to be a peg/stake of dubious reliability. Why were people using a dodgy stake anyway, if abing to recover gear was straightforward? A 20m buttress? Less than half a rope? And I see from Rockfax that it's not overhanging above, correct? Is it possible to ab in an stand safely in the cave (attached to ab rope, not off belay)?It's not quite as simple as that.The top of the crag is pretty chossy so abbing into the cave invariably involves knocking stuff down onto the ground below (and anyone down there)
Nah... As an outsider, very much pro-Sport. I cannot see any justification to bolt something which can be easily protected, where gear can be easily recovered by a short Abseil, on the basis that there used to be a peg/stake of dubious reliability. Why were people using a dodgy stake anyway, if abing to recover gear was straightforward? A 20m buttress? Less than half a rope? And I see from Rockfax that it's not overhanging above, correct? Is it possible to ab in an stand safely in the cave (attached to ab rope, not off belay)?
It's not a blame game. I pointed out the obvious - that the routes go to the top but the various editions and versions of the guidebook(s) make it clear there's a common HVS cop-out.....In this context, the more people who just climb to the ledge, following a suggestion that it makes a good HVS to there, the more demand there's likely to be for a solid retreat anchor. Skip forward in time and a commonly-used lump of iron anchor dissapears and someone thinks there should be something equally 'ferrous' and solid to replace it. Is this really any surprise?!I'm starting to wonder if one of Shark's minion's, in collaboration with Alan James, placed that bolt during 'a quiet week for news'.
This is a much overstated "fact". I saw someone abb off the top recently and they didn't knock anything down.
Galpinos meets Dave:
Guidebooks guide. In your place I would have mentioned the 7a. The routes are good, they are not cop-outs (the HVS physical challenge is arguably bigger than the E2/3 challenge for respective leaders of those grades) and they are not really commonly ascended.It may be inevitable that pressure for inclusion of a safe replacement anchor builds a little and one day the wedge might even get a millimeter thicker and sway the BMC area meet on a specific like-for-like replacement basis, under the rules, but that won't be anytime soon and may never happen. The rogue bolts I'm aware of go in and get quickly removed roughly biennially in the peak (normally on the top of crags). We also have bolts on top of popular pinnacles that are not really needed. Yet the BMC area debates are honest, robust and well informed (this isn't the first time someone made a detour to suss things out on the day and it was JB who pointed out that several UKC folk did ask for it to stay). Hiding things to counter demographic changes in the ethics of the climbing population I think is unhelpful and may even be counterproductive (that was part of the market edge Rockfax used when they started... pushing back against a rigid establishment).