[Fiend]

<whine grumble moan etc>

Oh dear. One could say I got my arse kicked, but that hardly does justice to the first class comprehensive man-beating I was un-privileged to partake in.

Okay rewind selecta, late summer 2003, I'm very much a bouldering newbie and my tentative playing around in North Wales goes like this...

Marsh Arete 2nd go, easy.
Heel Hook Traverse flash.
Utopia Central 2nd go, a whisker away from flashing.
Wavelength Groove after a few goes.
The Shelf flash.

All feel pretty fine and nice.

Then a winter bouldering on grit, I improve by a grade or two, much more confident etc etc. Panto's guide comes out, North Wales is bathed in angelic light, I spend a couple of days warming up on routes, go to the Ogwen Valley and...

Caseg Fraith Arete - bloody tricky.

Central Wall Brachrymelon (sp!) - arsing hell I didn't know my fingers could hurt that much. Apologies to any residents of Bethesda who might have been disturbed by my furious bellowing. Two hours or so to utterly fail oh what joy. And it gave me flatulence.

(So I think to myself, go find some classic V4s to attempt....but in the meantime get my momentum back at the Idwal Cottage Crag...)

Sideshow - argh argh and argh. So Earl Crag's Trick Arete goes second go after a solitary warm-up....and this takes me ooooh 20 goes or so to fail. I didn't know North Wales was so bloody reachy and friction dependent....great my two genetic weaknesses combined.

Cracker - ouch and more ouch. More demoralising failure although I could actually envisage this going....in an alternate universe where I have more power and better skin and telescopic arms...

Panto I hate you. But I will be back (when my fingers....and pride....have recovered) and much more humble.


   :?  :x  :cry:  :?  :evil:      :x etc.

[Pantontino]

Remember that I don't always agree with the grades in the book - my job was/is to try and reflect the consensus.

Central Wall I think is about right at V5 though - I find it tricky, but I'm not noted for my crimp strength. It was probably too hot - come back on a cooler/breezier day and you'll romp it. Worth persevering: I do rate it very highly.

The Idwal Cottage crag has never been that popular, thus the range of opinion governing the consensus here was quite narrow. Some of the grades may be out by half, or perhaps even a full V point...or it is entirely possible that you just hit it on bad day and the grades are bang on.

Anyway, good to see some passion being expressed.

[mozzer]

YEah I thought it wa OK when I went there for the first time recently. I quite like the slabs there - nice moves.

[BenF]

I was out in Ogwen last Tuesday for the first time in a couple of years and I too felt that my lilly white arse was kicked a bit, but maybe not more than usual.

Caseg Fraith arete is utterly awesome though, but I couldn't honestly give it more than V3.  The steeper stuff just right (ie Ogwen Jazz, Skunk X etc) I thought pretty tough for the grade, especially the dyno, but it was more than a little humid when I was there.

Humidity is no excuse though for my shockingly bad performance back at Milestone later that day:  couldn't touch Harvey Oswald!  Or much else round there, but I thought Ding Dongs wall was superb.

Also got my arse kicked up on the Sway On boulder although The Ramp was a lot of fun.  Smackhead seems very hard for V8, but hey ho I ain't climbing at all well this week.  Generally I find Welsh bouldering grades very hard in comparison to anywhere else I've bouldered around the world, particularly the mountain grades.  Certainly I reckon a V4 in Wales could get anything up to B8 in the Peak!   Then again maybe I've just spent too long on slopers down at Castle Hill over the last year or so...  I certainly seem to be failing to crimp these days.

[Bonjoy]

Certainly I reckon a V4 in Wales could get anything up to B8 in the Peak!  

 I think what you meant to say was 'Certainly I reckon a V4 in Wales could get anything up to B8 in the old and very outdated Peak Bouldering Guide that no self respecting peaky pays any attention to whatsoever!' :wink:

[Fiend]

I thought Peak B8 translated to V4 as standard?? Or is that Northumberland B2? I get confused...


Anyway, Ogwen Jazz was my one saving grace. I presume you start of the pocket on the arete and the dink, slap up to the crimpy pocket on the right, do something to get the notch just right of the arete, and then mantle using the arete?? If so I did that 3rd go which is a bit more like it although to be honest it's not as characterful as the stuff I was failing on  :?

[BenF]

Haha, yeah true.  

That B grade thing just never caught on and when the guide was being written for the Peak.  I reckon they used a random number generator to grade some areas.  Just spin the wheel to see what kinda grade gets put down...

[BenF]

Yeah, I agree that OJ is not exactly a characterful problem, a bit short and shite really!  Not half as good as CF arete, the wall left of CF arete, or the problems right of Ogwen Jazz.  I somehow managed to flash OJ, but I have no idea how as I struggled like hell on the mantle.  :shock:

[Doylo]

don't worry mate smackheads not a standard welsh v8- not by a long shot!

[Pantontino]

V8- ? What is this that I see before my eyes? A new revolutionary grade, or just a typo?

[Fiend]

ROFLMAO  :blow: Doesn't the world have enough revolutionary new grades already??

[Doylo]

v8 minus does have a nice ring to it doesn't it. You might have to invent a new font grade to go with it though si, could get a bit messy.

[BenF]

There's a whole host of new, revolutionary V8 grades waiting to be discovered and applied... V8*, V8!, V8# etc etc.   Careful use of the keyboard could even negate most other V grades, creating a grading scale consisting almost entirely of V8s.  Then we would have a system nearly as confusing to visitors as the British objective system.   :wink:

[Nigel]

V8! etc, what a great idea! I'm gonna start using them. :up:

[Jim]

Back to welsh V4, they are very strange, either have flashed them or struggled like hell to work out how to do them and even then finding them very hard

[Fiend]

Back to welsh V4,

You mean Welsh V8—³;  , surely??

P.S. I don't know, not enough experience.

[Pantontino]

Jim, what V4s did you cruise, and what did you get spanked on?

(and how tall are you?)

Just collecting data for the ever developing consensus thingy.

[a dense loner]

i will speak for jim since he's not replied, he/we got spanked at sheep pen, think it was a case of being a bit selective wi the holds at first. i was wi him the next day n have no idea what he cruised  :wink: wavelength boulders seemed a lot easier than sheep pen for correspondin grades. sheep pen seemed a lot more burly, prob just felt harder cos we were a bit shocked, n it was intermittent rain n he had to put up wi my moanin etc.

[BenF]

Hmm, grades...  

I was up at Utopia, Pieshop, Wavelength, the Dome and the Meadow on Saturday and again felt I was working hard for the grades, but not as hard as I have to work in Ogwen.  Did the superb Lordy, Lordy which felt fairly soft but most other stuff was pretty tough.  Meadow Roof was nails to be honest and I wouldn't have argued with V5/6, but then again I'm a weakling who hates steep cellar moves.

We thought the stuff at Utopia was about right, if a bit soft around the middle (ie the central line and the eliminate just left of the flake).  However the Pebble is hard or am I just missing the most efficient sequence?

[Fiend]

Further ramblings...

Orion Boulder (it's not that much of a hike, 10 minutes top and fairly gentle!)...

SS  Crack on the left - more like VS than V2  

Arete on the right - felt fine, quite a nice problem, finish not nearly as bad as it looks.

Groove in the middle - EVIL! You don't get many bloody holds to play with do you lol. And the footwork required for success makes a mockery of most grit slabs... Definitely hardcore V8—³; ...awesome problem though  

[Pantontino]

Totally agree about Seren - a contender for the best of its grade!

VS for the crack on the left from a sitter? Well, I served a long and arduous gritstone apprenticeship and I thought it was tricky. Maybe it has cleaned up a bit? Maybe I was having a bad day?

[TobyD]

t' caseg groove's a bit tricky an all ain't it?  Not that i'd argue with V5, mind.
Don't think...  (?)  seemed absolutely brick, though it was a bit warm.  
central wall at braichmelyn seemed fine to me, and the arete SS seemed quite soft at V6 but maybe crimpin deviancy just suits me.  

thought all of the above absolutely world class brilliant.

[BenF]

So the discussion continues...

I agree with jim, who I think said that Welsh V4s seem to either be easily flashable or utterly desperate.  Meadow Roof being a fine example of a hard one - took me a while to work out how to get to the sloper and eventually I used a huge drop knee to the right.  But then again I'm a weakling who was having a bad day that day!  :!:

We went back up the pass last saturday (ooh that sounds a bit rude) so I can now give my tuppence worth about a few more problems.  Did Boysens Groove which of course was just as utterly sublime as I expected it to be.  The Witch felt easy-ish for V7 on the same boulder, but a fine traverse nonetheless.

Back down at Utopia I got up the Pebble following an initial collision with the boulder underneath and have to take this opportunity to praise this problem for its fine technical moves, one of my favourites.  Fair at V6 too methinks.

[Pantontino]

Lots of people have complained about Meadow Roof - I say: lets bump it up to V5!

It is quite full on, even if you manage to master the 'roll-over' move to catch the sloping shelf with your right hand.

[BenF]

Re: Meadow Roof...  yup, its quite full on!  My mate went straight up to the sloper at the start, but he is six foot four, whereas I got to enjoy the wicked "roll over" move you describe.  Lovely way af getting to the sloper with the right foot high out right yeah?  I'd recommend it as a better way of starting the problem than powering straight up.