[jwi]

I wouldn't bother with DuoLingo, Roseta Stone, BBC Bitesize, or any course which encourages you to learn Spanish by means of learning phrases.

Duolingo is not centered around learning set phrases. It's just a fancy gaming interface to flash cards for memorising vocabulary, verb conjugations and some basic sentence structure.

[StillTryingForTheTop]

I learnt Spanish using Michelle Thomas method and can't recommend it enough

Yes, I have a few of those to listen in the car, as you say Duolingo doesn't explain structure but I am hoping the combination of the two methods will support each other

[Evil]

2003. For listening, we had a small number of pre-scripted conversations to learn. People memorised the responses needed for the scripts rather than understanding anything. Had the examiner gone even a tiny bit off script, we would have all been completely lost. I can't remember the writing assessment.

That sounds like my A* GCSE French from 1999, which was basically how good are you at memorising a script (speaking) and how quickly can you use a dictionary (reading, writing and listening). I guess I am good at all those things, but terrible at actually speaking French.

I have been trying to learn Spanish over the last few years, but it's very slow going (probably because I struggle to find time for deliberate practice).

[kelvin]

I'm finding the learning of Spanish perhaps the hardest thing I've ever tried to learn.
I have the M Thomas lessons and they got me speaking enough to communicate what I needed to say but seemed useless at helping me to hear Spanish. Duolingo gave me some words but I found the app frustrating, often marking me wrong for the right answer and making you go over stuff that seemed hardly relevent to progress.
So a week or so ago I stumped up for babbel - so far so good. Just working my way through the beginner courses and finding I have huge holes in my understanding.
If I'm honest, I've not put the hours in when I've been in Spain for months at a time climbing, added to the fact of spending time with too many non Spanish climbers who by necessity are using English to communicate and often me as a teacher. I was pretty lucky in Cornudella to make friends with many of the locals (I'm off to Font for a month in Nov with Catalan boulderers) but spending time with them just wrecks any Spanish learning I've managed. Catalan is too similar and I did French for five years at school, so I get immensely confused.

Like I say, one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do

[tomtom]

There are two ways of learning languages (as I understand) and different people learn in different ways.

I have friends who speak many languages - who start by understanding the mechanics and structure of the language - and those who learn mostly by imitation and repetition.

Similar to learning a musical instrument in a logical - follow the instructions way, or just copying tunes.

I’m shit at both

[kelvin]

I hear ya Tom - I've frustratingly not worked out which I am.

I should perhaps clarify my earlier post.  It's the learning of Spanish that seems to be my issue, not the Spanish itself. I've dreamt in Spanish whilst over there and automatically respond in Spanish to the often used phrases. I've thought in Spanish, which was a really odd feeling first time and when stopped by the police have automatically answered in Spanish and Catalan to English questioning.
The problem I have is non of the way of learning I've tried seem to fit me 

[mrjonathanr]

That's interesting sdm, controlled assessment came in 2009 but your scripted oral was pretty much in that style ie parrot-learned pseudo-spontaneous conversation. Gaining independence is a lot harder than learning a script (which is why schools do it) but the parrot approach can be a demoralising experience for pupils.

[Muenchener]

There are two ways of learning languages (as I understand) and different people learn in different ways.

I have friends who speak many languages - who start by understanding the mechanics and structure of the language - and those who learn mostly by imitation and repetition.

Similar to learning a musical instrument in a logical - follow the instructions way, or just copying tunes.

I’m shit at both

Speaking as someone who has used both methods, I can say that in my case it was age/stage of life related.

I got an A in O-level German at school (and Latin, and A-level French) by, basically, sitting down every evening and rote learning a page of the grammar book and/or the vocabulary book.

Moved to Munich 20-odd years later, relatively spontaneously for a freelance contract, wasn't part of a grand plan at the time, and promptly sat down in the evening in my hotel room and tried to do the same again. Found that I simply couldn't do it any more. At 15 to 18 years of age my brain was a highly trained rote learning machine, at 38 I was using it for other more important things and that particular skill had atrophied. So then I applied the talking to people in bars method, which worked. As an adult learner one can never become bilingual, but I'm fully fluent for all everyday intents & purposes.

(For A-level French we also had to read heaps of 17th century literature - and boy were they behind the curve in those days compared to Shakespeare. Molière - utter crap)

[mrjonathanr]

Interesting points Muenchener. You may not have quite seen all there was to Molière to be fair.

[jwi]

...or having been forced to read Shakespeare's sonnets.