[Livingstone]

Hi,

I'm going to Europe this autumn/winter and got a van, a partner and a bucket-load of psyche! I'd like to know: where would you go?! Where's best?! Got space for sport, trad and winter gear so taking the lot.

Sport: Ceuse, Gorges du Tarn, Montpellier, Riglos, Rodellar, Siurana and El Chorro all look good!

Trad: There's some big hills in the dolomites, would be rude to drive past the Tri Cime and Marmolada etc!

Mixed/Ice: In condition in Dec? I expect so, where's good to go?

All opinions and thoughts needed, would love to take in the best of Europe!

Thanks

Tom

[psychomansam]

Don't forget to stop off at Font on the way there and  back.

Verdon looks amazing. One day!

[Livingstone]

how could i forget verdon! of course! thanks
font is cool, and although we didn't have a pad for half the time i was there, it would mean chucking one in the already cramped van! might have to stop by on the way though, good shout!

[jwi]

Those are all very good destinations. psychomansam mentioned Verdon, and I fail to see how you could improve upon Verdon.

You may also want to consider Chamonix for trad climbing.

For sportclimbing, Frankenjura is not particularly awful if you climb 7b+ and up.

[Livingstone]

Thanks for the info.
Frankenjura looks awesome, but is a little out of the way from the france/spain stuff I was thinking of. Still, a great recommendation, I'd love to go there!

Have you climbed much in Llieda or Tarragona in Spain?

Thanks

[jwi]

yes

[Paul B]

Val di Mello
Verdon
Riglos
Vilanova de Meia (do a few routes on the way to terradets etc.)

[Livingstone]

Cheers for the help. What did you think of Terragona and Llieda then?! Amazing world-class crags worth going to?! cheers

[jwi]

Depends on what kind of grade you climb and what kind of climbing you like.

Siurana is the best. 7a>9a. Visit Montsant when you want to give the skin some respite. Arboli is strictly speaking not part of Siurana, but don't miss El Falco or El Dard
Mariudoms is a small but good sector for winter climbing. One of few crags in Tarragona that is protected from rain.
Margalef is super-popular for some reason. I would maybe understand if I climbed 9a
Santa Linya is awful, but maybe good for 9a>, I wouldn't now.
Terradets has good multi-pitch, and good sportclimbing 7c>8b (sector Bruixes and Regina)
Around Alt Ugrell there is loads of climbing. Tres Ponts is a very good sector, but good only for a few days.
Camarasa has good climbing in the 7s.

Further north in Catalonia (Barcelona/Girona)
Montserrat is very good for vertical-ish pocket pulling on conglomerate 7a>8a (5000 routes)
Sadernes is a very nice mini-Rodellar with crags on both sides of the canyon and a nice river in the middle. 3>8c.
I love St Llorenc del Munt, but it is an acquired taste
Montgrony is a classic destination. I don't rate it that high, but possible in the middle of the winter on sunny days.

[abarro81]

Santa Linya is awesome, if slightly chossy.

[psychomansam]

Googling Santa Linya + kneebar gets 48,000 results.

 

[Livingstone]

Thanks again for the info, appreciated! Will be sure to check to hit Siurana and surrounds. So psyched!

Final question: Would you go any further south than Siurana area in december? Or is it warm enough? We're going back home in mid-dec, but want to follow the warmer temps south.

[abarro81]

Final question: Would you go any further south than Siurana area in december? Or is it warm enough? We're going back home in mid-dec, but want to follow the warmer temps south.

Depends on the year. If you've got a van you don't need to plan that - just see how it goes and what you're psyched for at the time.

[jwi]

We agree on this.

[Paul B]

Siurana is the best. 7a>9a.

In contrast I found Siurana a less than thrilling place to visit. It's overrun by people from Londinium town and the climbing felt distinctly British which isn't why I drove to Spain in the first place. I guess Margalerf (which I thought was great but suffering from the "free camping no toilet" approach) is probably starting to suffer from its popularity and readily available guidebooks now too?

If you have an up to date 8a.nu scorecard then I'd guess Santa Linya is for you, after all P1+P2+P3 equals a higher placing in the 'world rankings' than just P1+P2 which you did last week.

Pick up a copy of the Lleida guide by POD, that should give you plenty of places to look at and determine whether or not they suit you.

We didn't need to drive all the way down South on our trip as it was comfortably warm enough for the most part but Barrows is correct, if you have a van then you don't really need more than a rough plan. Also, there seemed to be a large gap between the Northern climbing and El Chorro which put us off (after 6 months psych was starting to slide a little).

[abarro81]

If you have an up to date 8a.nu scorecard then I'd guess Santa Linya is for you, after all P1+P2+P3 equals a higher placing in the 'world rankings' than just P1+P2 which you did last week.

Yes, no-one would climb there because the climbing is FUN. Just because there are extensions and soft grades. Obviously. The same goes for the rest of Spain. And France except for Buoux (but extensions there are OK 'cos they're at Buoux). And the UK except for Comedy

Also, there seemed to be a large gap between the Northern climbing and El Chorro which put us off (after 6 months psych was starting to slide a little).

Costa Blanca and Chullila are part way. We did Barcelona to Wild Side in an evening.

[Paul B]

Yes, no-one would climb there because the climbing is FUN. Just because there are extensions and soft grades. Obviously. The same goes for the rest of Spain. And France except for Buoux (but extensions there are OK 'cos they're at Buoux). And the UK except for Comedy

Weren't you the one getting psyched by the prospect of La Rage, I certainly wasn't?

I was more implying that you have to enjoy wanting to link various bits to other bits to 'enjoy' the most it has to offer, I didn't even comment on the (relative harness/softness of the )grades of said links etc. (feeling grade defensive?). Again, I wouldn't go to Euro-land to climb the same section of rock repeatedly when there is SO much rock available (just my 2p), and the route in the wings weren't all that great (IMO).

I spent a while the year before last redpointing three Peak routes which shared a start. Those first moves began to kill my will to redpoint by the end.

[Livingstone]

Ta very much. Yeah, we've got a van, 3 months and a bucket-load of psyche. will go with the warmth and psyche! grade-wise, currently 7c RP and looking to push it more. The aim of the trip is partly to visit the classic crags, and partly to get cranking and tick some harder routes! I guess the current, loose plan is: Ceuse, Gorges du Tarn, Verdon, Rodellar, Riglos, Llieda/Tarragona ish!

[petejh]

Good plan - start on solid Ceuse grades getting stupidly pumped on enduro 7c and by the time you reach Lleida you'll be - 1. fit as a fiddle and 2. the grades are softer (so I hear), hence you'll be pathing up everything. Just in time for Senza Piombo in January 

[Livingstone]

I agree! Soft grades on the continent, who'd thought it?!

2014: the year of the SmashFest.

[abarro81]

SmashFest.

That word is almost worth puntering for.

[Nibile]

Spain is in Europe, but Europe isn't Spain, grade wise.

[Livingstone]

You love it really Yeah my experience of Spain agrees!