[Fiend]

See title. I'm after somewhere that will make a feasible winter sun sport climbing destination in winter, likely December / January, that ISN'T limestone. Granite or Sandstone would both be good, or anything else that's pretty distinctive. Maybe not conglomerate tho.

Preferably with a functional guidebook and reasonable logistics (flight transfer accomodation etc).

Have previously done Tenerife (very cool) and Corsica (very cool), Pedriza and Pfalz are on a list but not a winter one as they are too cold / snowy. So I need some suggestions please.

Also, if anyone wants to come along, I'm recruiting early

[duncan]

Morocco Anti-Atlas region?

Tafraoute.

Trad. quartzite. I've not been but friends have and rated it and their photos looked good.

Fly to Marrakesh and rent a car.  Marrakesh is great of course.

[Falling Down]

Try contacting Andi Turner, he was telling me about some amazing sandstone sport climbing in Belgium (I think).  It may be a Spring/Autumn venue but it's worth asking....

[duncan]

San Bartolo.

Also quartzite.  Good climbing rock, somewhat like Arapiles.  Mostly sport, some trad. and some bouldering.  David Munilla guide Escalar en Cadiz.  Much of it is quite easy and probably not a full week's worth of climbing unless you're projecting 6b.  Plenty more climbing in Andalucia of course but all rather limey.

[duncan]

How adventurous are you feeling?





I don't think Fatima has a guide but Escalade au Sahara by Thomas Dulac is beautifully produced and inspirational.

Insect Overlord 2 might also have some suggestions for non-Euro limestone. 

[SA Chris]

Tarifa?

Or is that the same as San Bartolo.

never been, but quite fancied it.

Conglomerate is pretty cool stuff to climb on, don't think of the euro stuff as being anything like the Scottish stuff.

Riglos, Monserrat and Meteora in Greece are options if it appeals.

[lagerstarfish]

Wherever you go, don't forget that I offer coaching at £64/hour and only charge £1/mile (each way) outside of Heeley.

I also offer homoeopathic belaying at the same rates.

[tomtom]

Wherever you go, don't forget that I offer coaching at £64/hour and only charge £1/mile (each way) outside of Heeley.

I also offer homoeopathic belaying at the same rates.

I'm going to snitch on you to the IO's... I think its time you started paying for your advertising young man 

[Stabbsy]

Red Rocks? Never been, but it looks good. I'd guess you could get cheap flights to Vegas.

[SA Chris]

Confused now. Fiend do you mean Non European Limestone, or Non Eurolime, as in something other than limestone but still in europe

[butters]

Confused now. Fiend do you mean Non European Limestone, or Non Eurolime, as in something other than limestone but still in europe

I assumed that it meant "something other than limestone but still in europe".

[account_inactive]

Try contacting Andi Turner, he was telling me about some amazing sandstone sport climbing in Belgium (I think).  It may be a Spring/Autumn venue but it's worth asking....

That will probably be Freyer.  If so it's a limestone crag.  Berdorf in luxembourg is good (sandstone) but probably won't be sunny

[SA Chris]

Confused now. Fiend do you mean Non European Limestone, or Non Eurolime, as in something other than limestone but still in europe

I assumed that it meant "something other than limestone but still in europe".

Me too, but the Red Rocks suggestion had me thjinking I had interpreted it wrong.

And I think the spelling is Freyr (not to be confused with me) and it's deffo limestone.

[webbo]

and its extremely polished limestone in places.as for berdorf arn't there restrictions only allowing folk who are related to the luxemborg royal family to climb there or theres only 3 climbers at a time allowed or something similar.

[Paul B]

tickets needed for groups greater than 3 I believe. Why you then wouldn't just become 2 x 2 is beyond me.

[duncan]

Confused now. Fiend do you mean Non European Limestone, or Non Eurolime, as in something other than limestone but still in europe

I assumed that it meant "something other than limestone but still in europe".

That is what I assumed but it was more fun to ignore the but still in europe.

Fryr is Stoney Middleton and High Tor with a really excellent cafe on top.

There is more sandstone in Alsace such as Gueberschwihr.  There was an article in an old OTE about the region. Wasn't this where Jean-Mihn Trin etc. came from? 

As Dylan says though, Eastern France is not going to have great weather.  The only European, or close by, places I've been with consistently good weather in December were Sicily, Tarifa/San Bartolo, Morocco and Egypt. 

How about Sinai?  A quick google finds this.  Weather should be cool and dry.  Cheap flight to Sharm el Sheikh and off you go.  This mostly guesswork, I've not climbed in Egypt, other than up pyramids.

[Fiend]

Cheers for ideas. Haven't been online much, will reply later.

[Fiend]

Okay have had a look at some links and stuff...

Morocco Anti-Atlas region?

Tafraoute.

This looks good. A bit too multi-pitch for me but there's some cool looking single pitch stuff to mix in. It reminds me a bit of some of the SA stuff which is appealing. The new page has useful travel information, so I'll consider this as an option.

San Bartolo.

Yup sounds too easy, would prefer F6b upwards.

How adventurous are you feeling?

Not quite as adventurous as those bloody great big towers

[Fiend]

Red Rocks? Never been, but it looks good. I'd guess you could get cheap flights to Vegas.

Hmmm interesting. I might want more time in America to do it justice but I guess there are some good options over there - and a lot of appealing non-Lime.

There is more sandstone in Alsace such as Gueberschwihr.  There was an article in an old OTE about the region. Wasn't this where Jean-Mihn Trin etc. came from? 

How about Sinai?  A quick google finds this.  Weather should be cool and dry.  Cheap flight to Sharm el Sheikh and off you go.  This mostly guesswork, I've not climbed in Egypt, other than up pyramids.

That Alsace place - despite the shoddy website - looks okay. Not amazing but definitely non-Lime and seems to have a good choice. Seems to be very busy on what looks like a late Autumn day, which is promising.

Sinai looks cool rock but too big mountain multipitch for me.

Insect Overlord 2 might also have some suggestions for non-Euro limestone.

Ah yes ... plugtastic plug here. Fiend should really visit one day as he (unknowingly) picked the guidebook cover pic.

Heh, well, that sounds cool. The pictures in the thread definitely look appealing! As does having a decent guidebook. All I need now is IO2 to buy IO2jr Black Ops for Xmas to keep him busy, take a week off family and work and give me a guided tour


Okay so that's 3 to look into: Atlas, Alsace and maybe UAE. Will have to see what support I can drum up from potential partners...

[duncan]

San Bartolo.

Yup sounds too easy, would prefer F6b upwards.

Since San Bartolo appears to be back on your radar, here are my more detailed thoughts for anyone interested.

I thought it was an interesting place to climb and well worth a visit but not a "destination" if you know what I mean.  The routes are mostly short but good and interesting due to the metamorphosed sandstone.  The rock is very similar in quality to Eldorado Canyon (Boulder) or Arapiles though, alas, not in size.  There are around 220 bolted single pitch routes in my 2001 guide; nearly all 7b or easier, 2/3 under 6c+.  There are also around 30 x 3-4 pitch easy trad. routes that ramble up the other side of the crag.  There is bouldering but I didn't investigate this.  Probably a week's worth of climbing at 6b-7b.  There was not much in the higher grades in 2004, there may have been development since then.

I think Malaga is probably your nearest major airport.  The alternative is Seville but that's further from the other climbing in the area.  We rented a flat in a nondescript holiday development near Cape Trafalgar for a couple of days.  There should be plenty of similar in the area; I've no specific recommendations.

The area has some of the best winter weather in mainland Europe in my experience although we only stayed 3 days so perhaps we were just lucky.