[psychomansam]

So I've been climbing three years now. Yes I need to get a bit stronger all over, yes i need to carry on working on technique and yes i need to lose weight, but by far my biggest stumbling block is weedy fingers. I have read lots of training advice and threads on here, but think it could be helpful to ask some advice...

Bouldering 2-4 times a week at the moment indoors. Spent the last couple months trying to focus on some fingery problems and as a result managed to tweak a tendon in two fingers a few weeks back. Have a history of elbow tendon issues but the finger one is new, though healed now. I have managed in the last couple of months to really improve sloper strength further, which at least involves fingers, but small/tiny holds throw me off every time. I try to open hand as much as possible, and very rarely full crimp in an attempt to avoid injury. This means when i do full crimp i'm weaker than a watered down shandy

I have obviously improved finger strength a little bit. I know i'm working them because they feel a bit stiff and achey the morning after bouldering, but essentially they're still shite.

My questions then:

1. Is there anything i can do to help finger recovery after training, i.e. the stiffness/aching/fingers feeling weak?

2. There's a fingerboard in the house. Should I use it, and if so, what can i do that just focuses on finger strength and is the least likely to cause injury?


Thanks guys
sam

[ducko]

obviously do lots of streching before and after your climbing sessions, i personally like to have a hot bath after a hard climb it always seems too leave me feeling better the next day think its down to the heat,

as for finger boards from what ive heard its best to start easy on them, everything in moderation obviously as the fingers get stronger the intensity of the training can be increased, im sure theres a finger board training guide on beastmakers website

[Serpico]

My questions then:

1. Is there anything i can do to help recovery after training, i.e. the stiffness/aching/fingers feeling weak?

2. There's a fingerboard in the house. Should I use it, and if so, what can i do that just focuses on finger strength and is the least likely to cause injury?

1. The cartilage in finger joints has no direct blood supply, it needs synovial fluid to lubricate the surfaces of the joints and diffuse all the necessary nutrients that way, so before and after climbing, and between each problem open and close your hand to lubricate the joints, squeezing a rubber ball also helps.
Ice your fingers when you get home, and put your hand in a warm Wheat bag for 15mins on rest days.

2. 3 and 4 finger open-handed dead hangs. 5-8 of each for 8-15 seconds with 1 minutes rest in between.  Remember point 1. in between hangs.

[Adam Lincoln]

My questions then:

1. Is there anything i can do to help recovery after training, i.e. the stiffness/aching/fingers feeling weak?

2. There's a fingerboard in the house. Should I use it, and if so, what can i do that just focuses on finger strength and is the least likely to cause injury?

open and close your hand to lubricate the joints, squeezing a rubber ball also helps.

I always wondered what you were doing. Thought it was some kind of anger management...

[Fultonius]

obviously do lots of streching before

Err no, stretching before exercise has been wideley discredited. There is no scientific evidence indicating any improvement in performance or any injury prevention effect.

In addition, there are studies showing a significant reduction in stregth for up to an hour after stretching.

[Johnny Brown]

However flexibility is a MASSIVE advantage to climbing hard. If I can't stretch before or after, when should I stretch?

[grimer]

... around...

[Fultonius]

However flexibility is a MASSIVE advantage to climbing hard. If I can't stretch before or after, when should I stretch?

I never said don't stretch after. Stretching for flexibility is perfectly valid (and something I should probably do more off) but stretching as part of a warm up routine doesn't have many benefits and some major drawbacks. If you want to get flexible, do something easy to warm up on a rest day and do your stretching then. Or, if you want to do it on a climbing day, just move the 10 minutes of stretching you're doing at the start of the session, to the end.

[ducko]

fair enough, i still find that streching before climbing helps my forearms last out and helps my initial climbing but thats just me, by streching im not talking about a full on yoga session.

[Fultonius]

Feck, ignore this.  (The accidental post, not the previous post)

[Lund]

Are we having another yoga/stretching argument?  Oh GOODY.

Hmm, to get back on topic a little...

If your fingers hurt after training, then it's not a good thing, that's a sign that you've strained/stressed ligaments etc - that's not what you need to train per se to get stronger.  I dunno how the ligaments and tendons respond to stress to get stronger and thus be more injury resistant though.  But certainly - it's not like aching thighs after hill sprints shows you've worked out.

The bit that needs to feel worked is the FOREARM.  That's where the muscle is.

How to train?  Look at the beastmaker website and follow the instructions.  And be prepared for it to take a while.

[tomtom]

try and open hand everything.. the above posts are right - the muscles doing all the work are in the forearm...
I'd go for loads of non crimped deadhangs..

[SA Chris]

Look at the beastmaker website and follow the instructions.  And be prepared for it to take a while.

Look up repeaters. Do them until you feel ill. In both senses of the word.

[Paul B]

I'd go for loads of non crimped deadhangs..

Not training crimped is outdated I'd say. Stop fearing the crimp, embrace all grips. Even Ned crimps these days, sometimes.

[Lund]

I'd go for loads of non crimped deadhangs..

Not training crimped is outdated I'd say. Stop fearing the crimp, embrace all grips. Even Ned crimps these days, sometimes.

Maybe... but even if you're right... it's likely that he's got a decent crimp but rubbish open hand.  Also given history of tendon issues, maybe open handed is the way forward.

[Paul B]

it's likely that he's got a decent crimp but rubbish open hand.

Why? I know people that are the opposite of this. Open handed isn't the way forward, you need all grip types.

[tomtom]

it's likely that he's got a decent crimp but rubbish open hand.

Why? I know people that are the opposite of this. Open handed isn't the way forward, you need all grip types.

Swings and roundabouts.. you do need to use both types - but the thread was about tendon safe training and I think that every time I've tweaked/strained/pinged a pulley its when I've been crimping.. 

So I tend to train only with open hand - and crimp when necessary on problems (famous last words but no pulley injuries for maybe 2 years now..). But this does have shortcomings - I suspect this open hand tendency enhances my general lime shiteness - whereas on grit the friction allows you to get more purchase with an open hand..

I never really thought about how I tend to open hand everything until a couple of recent occasions when people have mentioned it... 

[psychomansam]

Thanks for the advice people:

On the open hand/crimp thing... I've generally avoided crimping, first because i just didn't like it and then because i know it's bad for tendons. This is all very well, but it's now a big weakness and the finger tendon injury the other week was caused by attempting to crimp hard on something thus upsetting my rather surprised tendons...

So the plan for now is:

1. Rest fingers a bit, spend another week or two being shite on routes instead of boulders
2. Try and keep fingers warmer on off days. Wear gloves more. Maybe buy a wheatbag or some such thing, any recommendations?
3. Warm up better and stretch a bit after sessions, stop pretending i don't need to do back physio exercises any more. Are dedicated finger stretches worthwhile? ( i'll google that)
4. Start doing dead hands til i'm dead
5. lose weight so i'm not loading them like the lump i am
6. Avoid throwing/grabbing/slapping unnecessarily (except in the bedroom obv..)
7. Be awesome

Any additions?