[cha1n]

Hey

I'd just like to clarify the starting hold on Eclipse. I'd had a play on it the other day, perfected the sequence and was hoping to wrap it up today when a bunch of locals came along and said that it started off of the big undercut in the roof (same as the Arabesque starting hold I think).

This came as a shock to me as all of the internet videos show people matching (essentially) the small crimpy undercuts and jumping feet up before making the move out to the face. Now I initially thought that perhaps they hated me for being English and wanted to annoy me but they all started sessioning it starting from where they said it started.

Now in a way, I was pleased that these extra moves were added as they're nice moves but it was enough extra pump to mean that I never climbed it today and now others are saying the Frenchies were bullshitting and actually starts on the crimpy undercuts. Can anyone clarify please? Hoping to finish it off tomorrow!

[dave]

I always took it to start from matching on the poor undercuts - LH one is a crozzle thing, RH one is a pinchable bit. BUT pulling on here is desperate for shortarses so they tend to start a move or two back. The old pink Godoffe guide gave you a beta rundown on it, showed pulling on from the matched poor undercuts. If its good enough for Jackie....

[willackers]

I was told by a group of locals that it starts where Dave said, apparently the ground (sand) used to be higher so it hasn't always been a problem for shorties. The only reason people now start further back is because of the ground, if you can't reach those holds then stack the mats.

[cha1n]

Thanks for that info, very clear now. Annoying that I wasted another session though... Oh well, tomorrow!

[willackers]

Good luck!

[ghisino]

The two starts are ok but there is an obvious difference as the match on the crimp when coming from the big undercling isn't easy.

I've heard there's a small half grade difference between the two versions and agree.
hard 7b+ from the crimps, 7c from the undercling.

if I was forced to choose one of the two and drop the other I'd opt for the undercling- big obvious hold and same as arabesque.

btw if starting from the crimpers and tall/elevated enough, you could logically start half move further:lh crimp and rh on the edge of the roof just below the sloper...

[cha1n]

Thanks.

I could agree with the grade difference. I made unusually quick progress on the shorter version and I'm also working some other 7Cs at the moment (fourmis rouges, big boss, etc) that seem much harder.

As you say, the moves into the small crimps whilst not harder than the moves after are still an extra 3 hand moves on small holds, in a horizontal roof, so it's hard to believe it doesn't add any difficulty to the problem. You've also done some more moves from the full line total eclipse!

Anyway, I think I'll try it from the small crimps to warm into the problem and maybe try it from the big hold if I'm feeling strong.

I won't be going out until later though as it's roasting in the sun!

[Richie Crouch]

I thought it was spot on at 7C from the crimpy undercuts pull on. Things like symbiose, sale gosse and vandale are all easier imo.

[a dense loner]

I have to take umbridge there ghisono. You could logically start a lot of boulder problems on different handholds however that's not where they start. The confusion here lies in which set of undercuts it starts, well there is no confusion really it's the crimped ones like it has been since the first ascent. Some people have just moved the goalposts

[ghisino]

I thought it was spot on at 7C from the crimpy undercuts pull on. Things like symbiose, sale gosse and vandale are all easier imo.

weird. i wouldn't call sale gosse easier, even though i've done it and not eclipse (but i've had many less sessions on eclipse...and only a very short one in recent times).
sale gosse is more straightforward but i'd say that the minimum requirements to have a meaningful session on it, in terms of strenght and "talent" (and conditions) are higher.
I can only see it feeling easier for the very strong doing the two problems in a few tries.

anyway bleau.info has had this same topic twice,  in 2005 and 2013 and the two answers were:
1)-you can start from the crimpers if you are tall, but don't stack pads
2)-in my old topo it says 7b+ from the crimpers and 7c from the pocket, but you won't be able to start from the crimpers if you're less than 1,90

it would be interesting to have a really old vid...was it in the real thing or "bleau!" ???
edit: "bleau" does indeed show christophe laumone cruising...total eclipse!!!

[Monolith]

And they say Font isn't eliminate!? Pinches Wall has fewer rules 

Good luck with your trip and the send! 

[Stubbs]

So you're only allowed to start off the crimps if you're tall?!

[Kingy]

So you're only allowed to start off the crimps if you're tall?!

  Shorties need not apply. Best get the stepladder out... I'll get my coat...   

[Boredboy]

A discriminatory boulder problem! Surely it could be broken down into a specific set of rules like - 1 pad crimp start 5.10 and above, 2 pads crimp start 5.7-5.10, a small stool 5.5-5.7, < 5.5 fetch the ladders 

[ghisino]

And they say Font isn't eliminate!?

whoever says that probably isn't a bleausard!

countless examples including:
-the most contrieved lines ever in bas cuvier, sometimes not even in the topos but well known by the oldies with name and grade (eg this slab in between la chicoree and thye crack left to it...a problem that's half a meter wide?)
-the fact that despite older locals insist that you should always start on a piece of carpet on the bare ground, on some problems an elevated start is standard...but then you have the "official cheatstone" just in front of them! (hypothèse, partenaire particulier)
-the late Charles Deneux aka Charlie (RIP) used to walk around l'elephant and give unasked (yet good) advice to the climbers...he could get quite upset if you altered his beta. 

[cha1n]

No success unfortunately! I don't climb very well second day on which is a shame as the conditions were better yesterday.

Another set of locals were there yesterday and were giving me abuse about starting on the crimps "no locals climb it from there" etc. I got to the last move a few times which is annoying as it's not that hard in isolation. I have a good photo of me on the last move with the local climber who was moaning at me in the background looking like he wants to kill me...

Back to Rempart for a few days I think, maybe try it again next week.

[blacky]

I thought it was spot on at 7C from the crimpy undercuts pull on. Things like symbiose, sale gosse and vandale are all easier imo.

Agree - that's where I started and it felt similar to Noir Desir difficulty wise but harder than La Berezina, both of which I did on the same trip. Need to get back to font 

[SA Chris]

I have a good photo of me on the last move with the local climber who was moaning at me in the background looking like he wants to kill me...

Success on a hard problem, and annoying locals in the process, sounds like a double win to me.

[blacky]

Was he wearing moon boots and odd tights? Post it up!

[Bonjoy]

I always thought the deal was that we maintain a cultivated ignorance about font rules, we deliberately stay crap at speaking french so we can take advantage of the french pomposity/coyness about putting the rules in print, and thereby avoiding doing things that make problems harder. Voila!

[rodma]

The best rule I was given by a local was that you can kick off the ground to do the first move on carnage,  but only in the summer.  When it is cooler you must pull on prior to doing the first move.

[cha1n]

Can anyone give solid evidence on where this one starts?

I haven't tried since my last failure (too hot) and am hoping to do it on Sunday but a friend is winding me up regarding my 'cheating start'. From what I can see, the evidence seems to point to a crimpy undercut start but most of the french + short people seem to start = to arabesque...

[JohnM]

Start by telling the moaning locals to get out of your way and then whip the sand off your mats in an aggressive manner using a Union Jack tea towel and then pull on wherever you want.

[Stubbs]

If you see two magpies fly over the boulder start on the crimps, but if you hear a lark calling from the wood you must start lower.

[rodma]

Ffs just start on the big undercuts like the rest of us shortarses

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk