This whole thing is just trainspotter bullshit.
Fiend's argument: Grade obsessed nonsense. I've never noticed a huge gap between HVS and E1 - ok, there are easy E1s and hard HVSs but that's the same at any grade, live with it. There's a lot of "grade debates" surrounding HVS/E1 firstly because it's a grade that a lot of people climb at and secondly people desperately want to escape the "low grades" and become "extreme" (duuude!) for personal prestige. I was chuffed when I did my first E1 but I wasn't going round trying to upgrade HVSs or invent a new grade before I was good enough to do proper E1s.
Provides a smoother transition to E-grades
Eh? Bollocks to that, if you can't climb E1 yet then you're not good enough. The grade is just a number, nothing magical happens between HVS and E1, it's just one is slightly harder than the other. Jesus :roll:
Reduces the importance of E-point collecting
The sort of people who collect E-points in that way are still going to do it - it doesn't change a thing, they'll just go for E1 and harder, and ignore E0s, just as the currently ignore HVSs.
Fits into a historic continuum
Does it fuck. There's no Hard HVS, or Mild E2 is there?
Charles' argument:
WTF? :shock:
Basically his argument is that because he's crap at climbing a particular style of route, he wants to invent a new grade for it. Utterly ridiculous. If you can't climb a severe crack at Froggatt properly when you can climb crimpy E2s that's your fault that you're not a well rounded climber, not the fact that the severe is incorrectly graded :roll:
I remember having a tussle on the first 2 pitches (VS !) of Coronation Street when I was happily climbing E4's of a different style. I didn't immediately think "oh, these pitches are incorrectly graded" but rather realised that I was out of practice with thrutching up slimey offwidths.
Why E0? Because it's a grade descriptive of something that lies outside climbing
Errr....no, it's just a grade that lies outside of your bag of techniques. Deal with it.
It's not about the "grade". It's just about the fight. It's "E for Effort".
E has always been for effort (mixed in with danger), I fail to see what's new here. Just coz you had a tussle, it doesn't mean somebody else wouldn't piss up it.
Most UK climbers have a nightmare when the get on US granite offwidths of the same grade they're used to climbing at, because the locals possess a different skill-base.
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