[rich d]

Just hit my short term (which was a bit more mid term than I thought) of being able to hang all holds on fingerboard for 8secs with two arms. Should I now be working towards one arm dead hangs, or should I be putting weight on, or should I be doing both.
Currently bouldering a puntering 6c, getting close to 7a. But have very limited time outdoors (one quick session a week) so most of my time is on board and rockrings for pull ups.

Cheers Rich

[dave]

i wouldn't necessarily go for adding weight right away if you've only just reached your goal. maybe instead set yourself the goal on a particular hold of hanging it for 5-8secs, and do 6 reps of this with 3 mins rest between hangs, then reduce the rest as you get stronger, or mix it up with another hold, of carry on for longer etc.

[GCW]

I would suggest adding weight straight away is a good recipe for injury.

It depends on what your regime is where you go from here.

[rich d]

Cheers Dave, I've been able to do the hangs for a couple of weeks now, so feel a little consolidated, doing three hangs with 3.3 mins rests. Will try to rduce time down further over next couple of weeks before adding weights. I already mix up the holds, this was how i got down to hanging the smallest holds. Keeps some of the boredom at bay.

[nik at work]

Whilst I profess to know nothing of training (Uncle tells me I don't do it) I'd suggest you broaden the scope of your training beyond fingers and pull-ups. Body tension is where it's at IMHO. I'm really guessing here as I've never done them but I suppose levers and the like are good for this? I'm sure Paul B, Dylan and Uncle will be along shortly with a structured training program and accompanying diet regime 

[Dr T]

I'm sure Paul B, Dylan and Uncle will be along shortly with a structured training program and accompanying diet regime 

I for one would certainly be interested in an UncleS fingerboard work out....

[rich d]

just starting to work towards levers, mainly after seeing the start of uncle's superb video. they feel nearly impossible. Would be interesting to see what some strong people do on their boards.

[Paul B]

I suppose levers and the like are good for this? I'm sure Paul B, Dylan and Uncle will be along shortly with a structured training program and accompanying diet regime 

I can't profess to knowing much about deadhanging as I've done very little (I really should make an effort to do some open stuff this winter), Uncle is your man on this.

You're on the money with the levers though. Obviously you can start off with hanging knee raises, then hanging leg raises, hanging L-sits, L sits in the rings (in a support, my efforts at this are laughable), front lever tucked, front lever one leg extended bicycling, full on front level then I think you step up to John Gill style one arm front lever. One exercise that I've rarely seen attempted by climbers is a back lever (in the rings) which kind of fits in around ring L-sits. (There's a full progression article in the Crossfit Journal if anyone is very interested).
Oh one more that I've missed, the Ice Cream Maker:

This is one of the best exercises you can do on the Elite Rings. Don't be deceived by the cute name; this exercise would scare the pants off Ben and Jerry

Annoyingly the site has changed and I can't find the video...

I have to say that in one of my injury phases I spent a fair bit of time doing an upper body/core rings workout and I really noticed a difference. I'm not saying it's better than plain old lever progressions, I'm sure it isn't however its a lot more interesting.

They've changed the site and I can't seem to find the workout list anymore sorry.

[saltbeef]

its all fingers fingers fingers

I disagree, I can do front levers etc but the thing that connects you with the rock is your fingers. For a holistic approach arm strength and core should be included, but the most important single thing to train is finger strength. If you can't hold the holds who gives a shit if you can't do a pull up of front lever. Like dave said consolodate on the holds you're using for a few weeks(3). then think about adding weight/one arming. be careful. (i wish i listened to my own advice)

[richdraws]

I agree with saltbeef but here is some front lever reference anyway;

http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/
http://www.beastskills.com/FrontLever.htm

[richdraws]

Have you tried the back lever Paul? I have not done any for a long time and I was wondering if you feel they would benefit a rock climber.

[Paul B]

its all fingers fingers fingers

Good point but then again different body types struggle with different things in climbing. People who are naturally heavier struggle with fingers. Light crimp waifs struggle with power.

Work your weakness - I wish I listened to my own advice  

Rich - yeah (I found the back lever to be a lot easier than the front which has a lot of sag in it), my core was fairly weak when I started doing rings so in that respect, yes I think it was of some use.

[unclesomebody]

Specification too early can, and often is, a hindrance to climbers. It's like a recreational cyclist deciding to follow the training plan of Miguel Indurain. What you need to make sure of is that all your skills progress uniformly. It's annoying to reach 8A finger strength but have 7A arm strength. No, it's more than annoying, it's plain stupid and reflects a misunderstanding of the concepts of training for climbing.

What I would suggest is a frank appraisal of the boulder problems you want to do. Assess the limiting factors. Then work your weaknesses. But this is almost ancillary to the fact that progressing from 7A upwards can often be best done by climbing on rock and not trying to train specifically. This is because climbing on rock will develop your finger strength, your tension, your technique, your understanding of movement, and also your knowledge of your own climbing. You could get all these things via different strata of specific training, but I would suggest that it may not be necessary at this point.

One other thing to note is that you can't accelerate training for climbing much like you can accelerate training for other sports. Fingers take time so give them respect otherwise you'll do far more harm than good.

Paul, I did try to do back levers a while ago on the door frame/pull up bar (after seeing a picture of a girl doing them). I got shut down so hard that I almost refused to believe it was possible.

Oh, one more thing. Don't take what malc said out of context. Remember who Malcolm Smith is. He has immense core strength, immense arm strength, immense tension, etc etc and by professing fingers, fingers, fingers he was surely insinuating that to make further progress he needed immense finger strength (so as to have uniform immenseness!). He didn't mean to say "Everybody neglect everything except fingers"

[nik at work]

If you can't hold the holds who gives a shit if you can't do a pull up of front lever.

It is very simplistic to state that weak fingers is the reason behind not holding the holds. Good body position, footwork, body tension to hold the efficient position etc etc etc are critical. How often have you worked a problem for 30 minutes say and gone from falling off the holds to doing the move? I'd wager lots of times. And do you think you've developed extra finger strength in that half hour? Of course not, if anything you will be weaker, but your body as a whole climbing tool is working better. Strong fingers are great but Uncle is spot on when he says the whole body needs to be at the same level or else it's just stupid.

Of course if you do have very weak fingers I take all of the above back and wish you luck with your deadhang regime....

[Nibile]

broaden as much as you can the range of holds you train on. flat crimps, incut crimps, slopers, slopey crimps, pencil lines drawn on the board. think long term. it took me two years just to get close to one of my fingerboarding aims. meanwhile and before, i crushed problems beyond my prevoius imagination. it's just the start, take your time, set your goals right, dedicate yourself to the cause and prepare yourself to be facing hard hard times. success, failure, psyche, depression, everything is part of the game, you have to keep your calm and keep going, blindly going on.

[rich d]

Cheers guys, words of wisdom as always. Thanks.
I know I should get out climbing more, but work and family restrict what I can do - or more accurately what I'm willing to sacrifice to do.
Fingerboard is the most climbing specific home based exercise I can fit in, until I get a board up in the summer.
My aim is to get on rock twice a week. My technique isn't too bad, as I've been climbing  bumbling about for years, and my arms are a fair bit stronger than my fingers, which is why the board seems to be the best thing at the moment.
Trying to increase my core, and general fitness will help, so trying levers - as much as a party piece as anything else. And skipping - which still makes me want to throw up.
Like the idea of not putting weight on, and consolidating for three weeks.
Any tips for increasing rock over ability, apart from doing loads of it and comitting to it?

[Paul B]

Paul, I did try to do back levers a while ago on the door frame/pull up bar (after seeing a picture of a girl doing them). I got shut down so hard that I almost refused to believe it was possible.

  That's brilliant. I had a girl (strong one) point and laugh at my L-sits and then the next day going up to the school a small crowd was leaving, they all had a good laugh as well. 30 seconds of stretching before sessions soon fixed part of the problem.

[saltbeef]

"Everybody neglect everything except fingers"

you misunderstand me. everything in its right place. but he did say

"Fingers, fingers, fingers. No World class climber has weak fingers but many get away with weaker bodies."

and

"Make finger strength the number one priority in your training, work on your weaknesses and never drink on an empty stomach."

wise words

[GCW]

I think it's important to think what exercises do what, and be specific.  Too many people bang on doing pull ups on smaller holds (sounds like you aren't).
Use hangs appropriately, ie statically for finger strength.  This will improve your finger strength and reduce the risk of injury.  By all means practice locks and one arm pulls with assistace on bigger holds, but don't combine the two.

And make sure you warm up and down very thoroughly.

[slackline]

Any tips for increasing rock over ability, apart from doing loads of it and comitting to it?

Perhaps Pistols (one-legged squats) might help increase balance and strength 

[Nibile]

Any tips for increasing rock over ability, apart from doing loads of it and comitting to it?

Perhaps Pistols (one-legged squats) might help increase balance and strength  

uncle was doing a few ones when we were in font, and i got shut down. i mean, really badly. then just a few days ago in the gym i tried again and could do them: i found out my weakness was technique... could you imagine?

[a dense loner]

rich when i fingerboard i drop fingers and find this very helpful. ie if i was holding 2 crimps for 8 secs i'd start holding one hand four finger and one hand 3 finger, then change round. then 3 finger, 2 finger etc. going down to 2 fingers each hand, after a while. the same thing open-handed and on pockets. having little personal goals is key. some people fingerboard once a wk and say it works for them. however i used to do it up to 5 days on, 20- 30 mins a time, mostly 2 sessions a night. i did the first one as soon as i got back from work, had tea etc then one about 9ish. crimping first session open-handing/pockets the last one. bear in mind tho that i have no friends and am very boring company. if you have beams in the house i would throw a pinching session in as well. i have found that sticking to one range of motion in a session works far better than combining, which is good if you just want to tick along with the stage where you're at.
i'm not a fan of pull-ups

[richdraws]

Deadlifts baby - heel hook your way to glory. 

[rich d]

nice ideas dense. Just done my new routine, reckon I've got a new set of goals, 1.30 min rest. and dropping down to two fingers on ridges and slopers - by stepping down as you suggest.
I do like the fingerboard for deadhanging as it's an easily measurable thing to see improvements.

Is it counted as obsessional when you start doing graphs from your excel log?