[SA Chris]

I can't imagine the Tories would set up a system that would be at risk of £4bn pa fraud and then when the risk materialises cut funding from the part of the orgnaisation that's supposed to combat fraud.

Everything GB and New Labour have touched when it comes to the management and delivery of services has turned to shit.

Your answer doesnt answer the question. I wasn't saying that Labour are doing anything right, what i was asking was why you think the Tories knew how to run a business?

Sloper, you still haven't answered the question.

Are you a politician already? Do you want me to get Paxman on your ass?

Did you threaten to overrule him?

[Jaspersharpe]

Thanks for posting that Chris. You just saved me the trouble.

I want to see some hard facts or at least a shred of evidence to prove that a Conservative government would do any of this any better.

Sloper - HMRC are an overstaffed, underqualified bunch of failed accountants. It's totally correct that the government have tried to cut back on the pathetic excuse they have for an investigation department as generally they waste all their time and money attempting to screw an extra £100 from someone who's made a minor error on the declaration of the Co2 emmision level of their company car rather than addressing the major issues.

If they cut back on pointless small investigations which cost more to implement than they ever gain in revenue and instead put their effort into countering billion £ fraud such as the Carousel VAT debacle then that's all good as far as I'm concerned.

I believe that this was the idea behind reducing the staffing levels of HMRC as a whole (there's a fuck of a lot of dead wood there) and reducing the number of investigations into small businesses which are an unecessary burden on the department and basically only serve to screw the little man.

I doubt it'll do a lot of good in reality but it does make sense so I think that's one stick you don't have to batter the government with. Use one of the others as there are plenty but I'm still entirely unconvinced that your Tory pals have any idea how to do things better. Or that they actually want to do anything better that doesn't serve themselves and their mates.

CTC and WTC? Yeah it's all been handled very poorly but the fact is that it's there and it helps thousands of families. More importantly it helps thousands of parents WORK who would otherwise sign on. This positive change to the tax / benefits system would not have been made had a Conservative goverrnmant had been in charge during the same period.

I'll keep reiterating the fact that I hate Brown and I feel completely sold out by New Labour. I still can't believe that the party I voted for went to war for the USA and oil against international law and the wishes of the people who voted for them. But the Tories would have done the same and when you end up with a "lesser of two evils" political system then that's the way you have to vote.

Kicking fuck out of Brown is one thing - enjoyable and very easy. But convincing me that Cameron and his mates could, would or in fact actually have any intention of doing a better job for the people of this country than the pricks we have in charge now is another thing entirely.

And surely that is what you should be doing rather than quoting meaningless statistics about unemployment which we all know are utter bullshit.

[grumpycrumpy]

I listened to great interview with John Humphreys when he'd been asked to defend his differing techniques when questioning David Cameron and Gordon Brown ..... His answer   'well the consevatives haven't got any policies to ask questions about ' .... Sums them up really ....

[Sloper]

Jasper,

We can provide no proof that a Conservative government will do better as there isn't a conservative government, but they have said that they'll scrap the ID card scheme and for me that's a pretty big deal; do you want an ID card?

My point about CTC and WTC was that had the money given to the parent AND the money wasted on bureaucracy been given to the parents the scheme would be a resounding success.  It has failed because of poor policy, design, implementation and management all of which can be laid at the door of Gordon Brown.

As for the unemployment statistics being utter bull, they are the figures of HM Government, are you suggesting that the figures Gordon Brown uses to back up his arguments are crap?

Chris I think the Conservatives are better placed to run businesses because a large nuber of them have, any idea on the numbers on the Labour benches?

Grumpy,

The lack of policy is about being in opposition and not wanting Labour to steal the policy ideas etc  cast your mind back to late '96 and I think you'll find Blair lived in a policy vacuum.

[SA Chris]

Chris I think the Conservatives are better placed to run businesses because a large nuber of them have, any idea on the numbers on the Labour benches?

No, but I believe your logic is flawed.

[slackline]

the Conservatives are better placed to run businesses because a large nuber of them have, any idea on the numbers on the Labour benches?

How large a number is a large number of conservatives?  You ask people for facts/numbers yet provide none yourself, just as you've no evidence to back up your other claims ("conservative would be better", which at the end of they day is your opinion).

Anyway, all these conservative MP's/ex-business people must all be quite egaliatarian to have been running such successful business when they decided to give it all up to become politicians. 

Have you registered here yet Slopes?

[Simon S]

 :agree:with Sloper on this one!

As far as I can see the whole tax system is totally over burdoned with burocracy and staff (all of whom are on generous pensions). Brown has made it this way, overcomplicated and expensive to administer.

The econmy is in meltdown and the one thing for which he has heralded as his (only?) success will be his downfall.

I genuinely feel that the conservatives will do a better job in government. 

[grumpycrumpy]

Not sure I completely agree with you there Sloper ...... Labour in '96 did have policies as far as I recall .... All that this Consevative party can say is if they were in power they would do things differently .... Not how ... And appear to only interested in the zeitgeist ...   

[jed]

Sloper you seem to be quoting facts and figures from all over the shop.
I would be very careful about these so called studies and research, alot are bullshit.

I am not a lover of labour, but I am a hater of the conserative goverment.

Just look at what happened the last time the conservatives were in power?

But as I said before all politicians are twats.

[Sloper]

Yes, let's look what happened,

We got the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 which got rid of the old 'judges rules' which allowed almost arbitrary pre charge detention and introduced a system where for most offences you could be held for only 24 hours before the matter being dealt with by a Court.

Reform of the unions, banning of secondary picketing and flying pickets.

Realisation that you can't go on subsidising loss making industry.
Realisation that where the industry had been lost you needed to put something in its place, ok this took time but look around places that did stick their political head in the sand and refuse to move on.

Realisation that low inflation and controlling public spending were vital, let's face it Gordon Brown recognised this and stuck with it until he needed to borrow his way out of trouble.

The removal of state monopolies and privatisation (yes breaking up British Rail was a mistake) but do you remember the old GPO, British Gas, Heathrow BEFORE privatisation?

Of course the last Conservative government wasn't perfect, no government, company or person is, but I would respectfully suggest to just say 'Im a hater of the Conservative government is about as cogent as saying I'm a hater of black people'.

[jed]

I think sloper is a Lord, or maybe david cameron trying to gain swing voters.

Why do you know such boring shit?

 

[jed]

I'm a hater of black people'.

Are you ok sloper this is a strange thing to say in any context.

[granticus]

   Oh! No!    I can't resist... 

All this talk of change, that one party will do a better job than another, that so and so did this and made that mistake...  Listen to yourselves..  You're all sold and guilty of being deceived into believing you're really a part of a true and functioning 'Democracy'. 

To quote a lost hero Mr Bill Hicks  'who shall I vote for the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right?'.

The question you should ask is, who is really pulling the strings?  The reality is that whomsoever happens to be in power will be subject to the immense forces of those that installed them there in the first place.  This is as Chomsky put it 'the shadow of business over society'. 

A politician might (just maybe) start out with some integrity and ideals but these will soon be erroded in pursuit of power.  When they do manage to get into a position of power, they'll realise that they don't in fact have any!

In conclusion, if you wish to muddy yourselve in the world of Politics and buy into what you're being sold (so called 'Democracy').  Go for your life but be aware of the truth of the situation.  If your intentions are all about making your society or community a better place then get on and do something.  True change will come from your personal action and a real input into your society ie. how you treat the people around you and what you do for them/ with them.  Whining on about the latest bit of spin to be spewed from some government or shadow government office or another, statistics that show this ..., mistakes that were made by the others, look how great we are etc. etc. etc..., is not going to help anyone.  Truth is the majority of politicians are as clueless as the rest of us and are doomed to fail from the start.  Politics a filthy horrible world that demonstrates our most digusting behaviours, enjoy it Sloper you can have it and keep it.

[grumpycrumpy]

Not sure if all politicians are twats , but I think they are best summed up by the king of Brodignag from Gullivers travels .... I'd quote it here but I really can't be arsed ..... Those who have read it know what I'm on about , and those that haven't , grumpycrumpy says  ..... check it out ....

[jed]

Your right, there not all twats

Just the majority!

[Bubba]

Sloper's teapot: