[neil h]

qoute from cockfax: Just got word form one of the climbers at my centre that Tony Musselbrook has got the third ascent of Chimera 7a at high rocks today. I have not spoken to Tony today but hopefully i will be able to confirm soon. He is defiantly in great form at the moment and climbing well for the British team. Will try and confirm soon.


fair does tony and good effort, but my only point is he has claimed it on his score card as an 8a boulder problem


right or wrong?

[GCW]

Photos HERE and HERE.

Is it worth font 8a?  No idea as I've not been there.  There seems to be two groups on the 7a grade, see earlier threads for details.  Some say font 7b+ is the threshold, others say 8a/+.

Good effort either way, surely?  Let's not get dragged into another grade debate.....

[neil h]

yes i now fine effort. Just wondered what oppinions are are on grading top rope problems, personally i dont see toproping as real climbing. but thats just my opinion

[GCW]

Ha ha.  Can.  Worms.  Open.

I think it partly depends on local ethics. 
Hard problems on sandstone I kind of look on like a sports redpoint.  You work it until you do it.  The (slack) rope is there for your safety on your succesful ascent.  You climb it under your own steam so I'd think of it as real climbing.  Not leading, obviously, but still acceptable.

I assume you are referring to the headpoint solo vs top rope debate?
Where's Fiend?   

[neil h]

Ha ha.  Can.  Worms.  Open.

I think it partly depends on local ethics. 
Hard problems on sandstone I kind of look on like a sports redpoint.  You work it until you do it.  The (slack) rope is there for your safety on your succesful ascent.  You climb it under your own steam so I'd think of it as real climbing.  Not leading, obviously, but still acceptable.

I assume you are referring to the headpoint solo vs top rope debate?
Where's Fiend?   

 

[unclesomebody]

Actually, this isn't the first time he claimed it. He claimed to have done it last year I think, so I'm assuming this is just a repeat (for fun perhaps?).

As for top roping, it is the future. Moves so hard you can't clip on a route 30m long... (you imagined it here first)

[neil h]

Actually, this isn't the first time he claimed it. He claimed to have done it last year I think, so I'm assuming this is just a repeat (for fun perhaps?).

As for top roping, it is the future. Moves so hard you can't clip on a route 30m long... (you imagined it here first)

yes right, he claimed it just before james did it, turns out he tried it just before james did it, but the photos imerged as him doing it.


anyway what you mean, 30m long, I thought you were a 2 move max man myself

[Jaspersharpe]

Chimera's not a boulder problem so it's daft to give it a font grade. It climbs out of the cave, traverses the break left and then has the hard section up the groove which starts at about 25ft off the deck.

http://www.southernsandstone.co.uk/sand/hrphotos/DSC00039.JPG

GCW is right. Doing the hard routes on SS is basically redpointing. French route grades make the most sense and Chimera always got 8b (but that was when only Dave T had done it and everyone else had failed miserably).

So not as hard as font 8a anyway. 

Did he actually claim to have done it before or was it all just hearsay cos of the photos?

[ned]

He didn't claim to have done it before. He had tried it last year, and did ok, but not been back on it till the other day. (i think)

[neil h]

Chimera's not a boulder problem so it's daft to give it a font grade. It climbs out of the cave, traverses the break left and then has the hard section up the groove which starts at about 25ft off the deck.

GCW is right. Doing the hard routes on SS is basically redpointing. French route grades make the most sense and Chimera always got 8b (but that was when only Dave T had done it and everyone else had failed miserably).

So not as hard as font 8a anyway. 

excactly, james reconed about 8a+ (but dont qoute me as I cant really remember what he said), so no were near font 8a, I just dont get the fact that tony is a very good climber, and very talented, but to put font 8a on the score card is just stupid, did he just pick that out of thin air just to get his score card going?

It is his first 8a bloc on the card. By all means equate it to a sport route grade and stck that on your score card.

I can understand the boulder grade, as the route as stated above is only a few moves, as you do 25feet of ewasy climbing to get to it.


Sandstone has always been a bit of a sore point, ask unc about that. His solo of kraite arete, was a very bold move, but then he was slatted for using a bouldering mat. His asscent has gone in the guide as lead with protection. utter bollocks.........

[nik at work]

Slightly off the "is top-roping the work of the devil" topic but...

Never seen this problem in the flesh and the above link is the first photo of the full line that I've seen, so forgive my ignorance but could somebody clear up a couple of points for me.
Is there a groove above the cave start, or is it a crack? And has that been climbed? And is there potential for a direct start to chimera?

P.S. Is the Uncle story above true? Bloody climbers....

[Tom de Gay]

Hi nik - long time! A direct start looks kind of possible... The faint groove above the cave start looks kind of impossible. There are a couple of kind-of-possible slab projects nearby if you have lot of time on your hands.

If the ground was 20 feet higher this would be one the best boulder problems in the country! That would be quite some patio work though, so for now you have to do fairly easy climbing (5c?) to get stood in the break. From there a really hard move rocking into the groove and a few sketchy 6b/c moves to the top - so more like climbing a boulder problem than a route. Perhaps Dave T would have given it a boulder grade had they been in more widespread use at the time.

Had I pulled my finger out (rather than injuring it) I'd probably have said Font 7c+ - so 8a isn't too fanciful really given the difference conditions can make on sandstone. Then again, it can't be 7a 'cos Johnny says I can't climb 7a.

[GCW]

Then again, it can't be 7a 'cos Johnny says I can't climb 7a.

Aye, but Sloping Beauty is only 6c!!

[nik at work]

Tom, how are you?
Still in the 'ole shmoke?
Cheers for the info, not that I'll put it to any practical use in the forseeable future....

It's hard to be angry when the climbing is so good.

[Jaspersharpe]

The crack going to the right from the top of the cave is Moving Staircase 6b. It's ok when it's dry which wasn't very often when I was there. As Tom says the faint groove thing above the cave looks impossible but a direct start will probably go.

Not surprised about the Krait Arete story as the ethics there are strange but strict in their own odd way. I certainly never totally got the hang of them in 10 years of climbing there. Thing is that a mat wouldn't do you a lot of good on the easy but dodgy finish anyway and that's the necky bit imvho. I was going to solo it in 1990 but reversed from the top move to the break as the sandy finish (that I'd slipped off on a top rope before) wouldn't get out of my head. You really wouldn't want to fall off there mat or no mat which is why I bottled it (and I had the thing that wired I could do it in trainers, missing out holds etc etc). The crux is low enough to jump off anyway so it's really only the middle section that a mat would make a difference on and that's easy. Still those are the vagaries of SS ethics. 

It's a good effort in my book for what it's worth. 

  Has anyone done my old project to the next to The Beguiled at Eridge Green? That was of similar difficulty and quality to Chimera.

[neil h]

A nice pic of unc falling of kraite arete on his first solo attempt





I was looing at a direct start to chimera, but to hard for me around 8a+ mark I recon, but since then someone has broken the starting side pull


Whats the project at eridge

[Jaspersharpe]

The line just left (if I remember correctly) of The Beguiled. Had a hard start using a crack/layaway thing with the left hand, left foot on a high edge right foot smearing. You had to get a little pinch with the right and then go again for a better pinch (crux). Then some more tricky stuff on pockets and a still tricky finish. It was reachy and very sustained for it's height (16 year old beta so I dunno how accurate  ).

I did it in two secions but never finished it (Dave T had a few goes on it too). The start was often damp which didn't help but I'm surprised nobody's done it (don't think so anyway).

It'll be a brillant route 8a+/8b I reckon.

[Lostboy]

Just to say, Cracking effort the Mussels, very impressed that boy is cranking.     Just to clear a few things up- as Ned said he didn't claim to do this last year, so I don't know why people on this forum claimed he had????? Tony has bouldered 8a before and is familiar with the grade so it's more than likely he put it on his scorecard because he felt that it equated to that level of difficulty and was unsure what to do about top roping.  Besides if you don't agree with him go do it and prove him wrong, I guess the climbing world could always benefit from less armchair down grading, it's easy to do but as we all know ....... bollocks.

[Jim]

I fairly sure the difficulty of this problem/route is not the debate here, its wether or not it should be given a boulder grade

[account_inactive]

Well done Tony

That line is amazing.  Kinda like the groove at Cratcliffe but pebble dashed with sand

Does it really matter if it gets a Font/Sport grade?  Same thing as long a you don't fall off.  I think that we have some dual stuff here in the peak like PUTP which you are practically toproping until after the crux

Anyway, well done that man/boy/student

[ian h]

The direct start to chimera has been tried loads by the boulderers , but it is very thin . like neil said i would have thought ft 8a+ minimum. the thin groove above the cave i doubt will ever be done .

also Jaspers project at eridge has been tried a fair bit but never been done.

there are loads of projects around southern sandstone its just they are all really hard

great effort on chimera though

[dobbin]

Does it really matter if it gets a Font/Sport grade?  Same thing as long a you don't fall off.  I think that we have some dual stuff here in the peak like PUTP which you are practically toproping until after the crux

Anyway, well done that man/boy/student

The crux on PUTP is after bolt 1 and therefore not top roping. Just.

The rules for Students making ascents of hard problems/routes state that whichever god fearing tax payer took them to the crag gets two grades for each ascent claimed. For example, I take Ned Freewilly to Rubicon, he climbs 8a+ which = V12. This gives me V2 for nothing. Ned gets V10. I have to empty the car of stolen traffic cones. Therefore as Mr Mussels taking V11 he actually only takes home V9.