[Muenchener]

I'm in need of some recommendations for shoes for long alpine rock routes. This Year's Idea was Miura Laces sized up a bit from my sport climbing size. Performance wise they work fine - I've redpointed one grade off my limit in them - but I just discovered in the Gesäuse that after three or four hours they are a complete failure on the "comfy" front. The pointiness of the toe seems to be fatal even if they are a bit longer than normal.

What I've tried before:

La Sportiva Mantis. Beginner shoe. These were great on the comfiness, even did a (short) Dolomite descent in them once. Not sure how they'd be on the performance front now I'm trying harder things, and in any case they're not made any more.

Tenaya Ra. Didn't like these at all. Comfy and seem to work ok - only shoe in which I've ever onsighted 6b with a rucksack on - but the most insensitive shoe I've ever worn. Couldn't feel what was going on whatsoever.

So, next?

[iain]

I've had this dilema as well, I'm a big fan of Sportiva's generally but don't find them comfy for long days.

Worth trying the Scarpa Vapour which has a wider and more rounded toe box than the Miura (I've got v1's but v2's still have the same toe box). I've only had them on for 3 hours whilst on a route, but worn them longer at the crag/wall and find them really comfy. Sized them a half size up from performance and they're stretching around my foot nicely, could have gone a full size without losing much too.

Only thing is I don't find them that sensitive, compared to testarossa/solutions etc, so might not suit but I haven't found that to be much of a problem so far.

In 6 weeks time I can give you a proper report on how I find them for 500m+ routes.

[fried]

Have you tried the 'pinks'? Straight out of the box they're the most comfortable shoe I've ever worn. If I were ever doing multi-pitch routes I'd go for a pair of these probably a size/ size and a half smaller than street size.

Obviously depends on your foot shape.

[nai]

I'm in need of some recommendations for shoes for long alpine rock routes. This Year's Idea was Miura Laces sized up a bit from my sport climbing size. Performance wise they work fine - I've redpointed one grade off my limit in them - but I just discovered in the Gesäuse that after three or four hours they are a complete failure on the "comfy" front. The pointiness of the toe seems to be fatal even if they are a bit longer than normal.

Katanas? Disclaimer being that I haven't worn them for the purpose but they're less aggressive than the Miura so you should/could get similar performance with a bit more comfort.  In general though I reckon I'd go for velcro fastening so they can be slacked off or slipped off quickly for a bit of relief.

[dave]

I'd go for something lace-up and with a fairly stiff midsole for support, less foot fatigue longterm. Laceups give you more scope to slack them off fully right down to the toe for easy bits, much more so than velcros. I.e. can actually change the volume of the shoe overall, not just how tightly they are tied on around the instep.

Edit: these look like a winner:

http://fiveten.com/products/footwear-detail/14555-anasazi-guide-hero-brown-black

[Muenchener]

I'd go for something lace-up and with a fairly stiff midsole for support, less foot fatigue longterm.

Totally agree, that was the the thinking behind the Miuras but the toe shape seems to be fatal. A Miura with a rounder/broader forefoot would appear to be what I need.

Will definitely have a look at some 5.10s

[alpinebisou]

I've pretty much always worn some version of the anasazis. Last comfort shoes I had were the anasazi high tops, which were great but I think they only made them for a year or two. No longer available.

Recently looked for a replacement, primarily for alpine rock. I wanted something with a bit of stiffness to stop getting tired/crushed feet, rather than a normal shoe sized bigger.

I narrowed it down to (and tried):

Anasazi Guide - super comfortable and supportive and fitted great but very stiff and felt clumsy. Fine if you are not worried about performance.

Evolv Astroman - actually really liked these and they fit quite similar to an anasazi. The shop didn't have my correct size and they are quite hard to find.

TC Pro - ended up buying these. Seem a good compromise between comfort and performance. Quite stiff laterally so good for cracks and support. Edge amazingly and still smear ok. Imagine they would fit well, esp if you like Miuras. Not perfect shape for my foot but still feel pretty comfortable. Horribly expensive.

[DaveyDave]

Wore some Scarpa Vapor Lace for the long traverse at berry head and they were fine comfort wise. Nice and wide, really stiff and not too pointy - got em cheap too. 1 full euro size down from trainers for fairly comfortable but still good enough to stand on little peak lime holds. Heard the velcros are comfier but not as stiff, and might be easier to get off at belays etc. I'd say half size down from trainers for really comfy, 1 size down for a balance, and 1.5 down for really really bad footholds.

[Paul B]

Have you tried the 'pinks'? Straight out of the box they're the most comfortable shoe I've ever worn. If I were ever doing multi-pitch routes I'd go for a pair of these probably a size/ size and a half smaller than street size.

Obviously depends on your foot shape.

I think you need a weird foot shape to make the toe-box of this shoe anything other than awkward. I was seriously unimpressed with the fit and feel of the new pinks!

I've tried quite a lot of shoes for this purpose and my conclusion is whatever you'd normally like to wear but 0.5 sizes larger (or if it's really easy then Moccs).

[duncan]

Recently looked for a replacement, primarily for alpine rock.
...

Evolv Astroman - actually really liked these and they fit quite similar to an anasazi. The shop didn't have my correct size and they are quite hard to find.

TC Pro - ended up buying these. Seem a good compromise between comfort and performance. Quite stiff laterally so good for cracks and support. Edge amazingly and still smear ok. Imagine they would fit well, esp if you like Miuras. Not perfect shape for my foot but still feel pretty comfortable. Horribly expensive.

Do you mean for Chamonix granite or Eastern Alpine Limestone or both?

I tried Astromen, which seemed like a good granite crack shoe good for the NIAD but couldn't imagine wearing them on the S. face of the Marmolada for example.

TC Pros are not currently available in the UK (not a barrier for Muenchener). Interested that they work for someone usually who uses 5.10s

The Anasazi guides are as sensitive as wooden clogs.

A Miura with a rounder/broader forefoot would appear to be what I need.

I've tried quite a lot of shoes for this purpose and my conclusion is whatever you'd normally like to wear but 0.5 sizes larger

I had the same issue with Miuras. The answer is a pair of whites 0.5 or 1.0 size up from your red point shoe depending on length versus difficulty of the climbing. They are even the right colour. If you find a pair in 10 or 10.5 let me know!

The new Verdons might work if sized up and the new Quantums sound like they have been designed for hard multipitch routes. As ever with 5.10 it's a complete lottery until you've tried them on.

[fried]

Have you tried the 'pinks'? Straight out of the box they're the most comfortable shoe I've ever worn. If I were ever doing multi-pitch routes I'd go for a pair of these probably a size/ size and a half smaller than street size.

Obviously depends on your foot shape.

I think you need a weird foot shape to make the toe-box of this shoe anything other than awkward. I was seriously unimpressed with the fit and feel of the new pinks!

I've tried quite a lot of shoes for this purpose and my conclusion is whatever you'd normally like to wear but 0.5 sizes larger (or if it's really easy then Moccs).

I do have strange, narrow feet. The only things that fit me are greens/ whites/ pinks ...and Miuras, which is why I thought Muench might have strange shaped feet too.

[alpinebisou]

@duncan. I was thinking mainly for the granite. TC Pro feels like it would work for both, in fact have climbed some limestone in them and they felt good although you have to adapt a bit. Astroman maybe not so much.

[psychomansam]

Tenaya Ra. Didn't like these at all. Comfy and seem to work ok - only shoe in which I've ever onsighted 6b with a rucksack on - but the most insensitive shoe I've ever worn. Couldn't feel what was going on whatsoever.

So, next?

Like people say, comfort normally means buying a slightly bigger shoe. For lots of occasions this is fine.
But the other issue is that the longer you have to stand on 'holds' the more it strains your feet and tootsies. The answer to really extended periods is basically thicker-soled, stiffer, more supportive (but less sensitive) shoes which take the strain off your feet. My experience with these type of shoes is that I hate them at first. For quite a bit. But after a while they wear and soften up at the front, providing some feeling, but maintain a decent amount of stiffness. Currently have Scarpa Vantage. Hold some old-skool 510s before.

[Fultonius]

I tried TC Pros in the shop and just couldn't imagine feeling confident in them, too wooden and clumpy - are they better in real life?

I've just done 3 big routes in the dolomites in a pair of Scarpa boostics (550m 7a+, 400m 6c, 350m7a+)- genuinely perfect shoe for me on anything from F5+ to Font7B and everything in between as long as it's fairly steep, sized snug not baggy. I wore my Vapour Velcros on the marmolada as thought slab climbing might just kill my feet.

I prefer velcro so I can pop my heels out every belay.

Reading what Sam just said, I'm more in line with what Dave Macleod once wrote - something along the lines of "better a softer downturned shoe than a a stiff, clumpy flat shoe"  a subtle down turn flattens out enough but provides support without losing sensitivity.

[jwi]

Pretty much +1 on what Fultonius says, but climbing 10-12 hours in somewhat soft shoes is not for everyone. Like hiking in the mountains in flipflops, it takes a few years of fairly high volume climbing to make the feet strong enough.

[blamo]

I have had some luck with the TC Pros.  They are sort of a mix between a bad crack shoe and an overly stiff clumsy sport climbing shoe.  They definitely aren't a pure crack shoe, but they aren't horrible.

[shark]

Used to be Lynx's but Evolv Bandit lace ups have been good on this trip whereas Toby's weapon of choice are Muiras half a size too big carefully worn in.

[bubbles]

Scarpa Vapour Lace ups would be a good bet. Nice and stiff with a pointy enough toe box. Possibly the best shoe I've ever owned. My pair have just worn through the rand after their 2nd resole... Not sure if it is economical to resole them again. My pair are tight with thin socks on and snug without.

I had a pair of Astromans and hated them. I just couldn't trust them on small holds. My grade dropped wearing them to same as it is when climbing in Sportiva Trangos...

I've recently got a pair TC pros which I like. They took a while to brake in properly. They are good for cracks and smearing. They aren't as stiff or as pointy as the Vapour Lace though. They are very well made shoe however and will probably last many resoles.

Another, slightly left field option, is the Evolv Valor. These are nice and stiff and pretty cheap. I did a lot of US granite in them back 2013. Maybe get them for the start of the winter season and use them in the wall. Then get Torquil to resole them with descent rubber come the springtime...

My one experience of Muiras Laces is that a slightly too big pair is very soft and offers next to no support.