[douglas]

Is there a good reason not to indulge in a spot of powerlifting before (rather than after) a fingerboard session? Just thinking of the body fatigue impacting the finger workout but I can't see why. Any advice appreciated: I've never lifted before. Cheers.

[shark]

Depends what your priorities are. Unless there is a pressing reason not to, my rule of thumb (once warmed up) is to start with the thing I most want to improve at so I can give it my best effort. If its real priority I would ideally not follow it with anything unless I had to in order to maximise recovery/compensation. I think fingerboarding especially max strength hangs lends itself to a morning session and do other stuff later in the day if you can organise it.

[douglas]

Thanks, Shark. I had in my mind that that sort of approach was optimal but the gym is on the way home from work and the fingerboard is at home so makes sense to try it the other way around. I did try morning finerboard sessions during a period of unprecedented psyche but my joints became creaky and I tore a pulley so I 'can't be arsed with that shit no more'.

[Nibile]

I've lifted only three times kind of seriously, but each time I barely had enough left to walk home.
Plus, each fingerboard session leaves me pretty worked in my whole upper body, not only fingers and forearms, despite not doing  many sets.
So I'd say not to mix them, but in case you have/like to, fingers first.

[douglas]

Okay, thanks. I can't say I feel the same after a fingerboard session, but then I don't ever do pull-ups. I'll give it a try training different days. I thought the two exercises would be quite exclusive, but perhaps not.

[Sasquatch]

I'd agree with Shark/Nibile.  Sometimes you don't notice the impact the FB session has on your core/back/arms.

[douglas]

Cheers.

[mloskot]

I've searched around myself how to combine gym and fingerboard/climbing sessions, especially those related to power and max strength, assuming full time work

AFAIS, instead of interleaving gym/fb on separate days, an optimal solution would be resistance training in gym in the morning, then fb/climbing in the evening on the same day. Then, full day is dedicated to recovery, what is important. That's my interpretation of "less is more", after climbstrong.com, some studies show: "10 minutes of hard-paced running at the end of a strength session resulted in an almost 20% sacrifice in gains."

[douglas]

As it stands, I've not been combining the lifting with fb work. I've been hitting the gym for a couple of weeks and today was my first session lifting near my limit. I came home and collapsed onto the couch! So I've been training body Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and fingers in between.

[mloskot]

So I've been training body Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and fingers in between.

That is still a dilemma for me and I've been trying to wrap my head around this, so I asked some questions around, for example, Steve Bechtel:

Q: Would I be better off training the antagonistic muscles to climbing on “off days” or add them at the end of a climbing workout?

A:  Anatgonist training is great, but doing too much of it on “off days” can delay recovery. How much is enough? Too much? Hard to say. I think sticking to lower-volume and higher-intensity exercise is the ticket. Strength benefits are greater and the metabolic damage is less.

If you can do it on climbing days and follow both with a full day of recovery, you’re probably better off.

[Nibile]

As I said, I prefer not to mix, because: a hard fingerboarding session would hinder a powerful lifting session, and vice versa; but also because I find it very efficient to train every day, at various intensities, rather than thrashing myself one day and taking the following off.
So each different session allow me to train one day more, in general with a higher intensity.

[Sasquatch]

So I've been training body Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and fingers in between.

That is still a dilemma for me and I've been trying to wrap my head around this, so I asked some questions around, for example, Steve Bechtel:

Q: Would I be better off training the antagonistic muscles to climbing on “off days” or add them at the end of a climbing workout?

A:  Anatgonist training is great, but doing too much of it on “off days” can delay recovery. How much is enough? Too much? Hard to say. I think sticking to lower-volume and higher-intensity exercise is the ticket. Strength benefits are greater and the metabolic damage is less.

If you can do it on climbing days and follow both with a full day of recovery, you’re probably better off.

There's no such thing as antagonist muscles.   

[mrjonathanr]

Mine feel pretty antagonised just looking at a Beastmaker.

[Monolith]

Tuppence worth.

I had a regime that was giving me the best gains I can care to remember a few years ago.

I had my campus board set up with fingerboard and bench press/free weights. It felt like a workout from hell and the object was to go around each of the 'stations' in turn completing a given set of reps/hangs/pulls etc. It was mostly an experiment in whether Mike Mentzer's principles of super high intensity training might usefully be transposed to the climbing training environment.

Initially you would start on the campus board starting with the most basic laddering exercise up and down from 1 through to 5. You would then progress to the fingerboard - do ten pullups and twenty straight leg raises. This was followed by 10-12 second deadhangs x 3 sets (repeater style). Coming straight off this, you would take a captains of crush number 2 and do three full closes with each hand. After this, you travel to the bench and give 6-8 reps at between 65-75% one rep max. Rest 5 mins and repeat the circuit again but varying/increasing the intensity of the campus routine to suit the session. I did this for quite a number of weeks and tended to walk rather like John Wayne for a few days afterwards (this had nothing to do with the fact that Crouch was essentially living with me).

Although it seemed a hell of a lot to be doing - I was by and large unemployed and in no way was fit to work any sort of manual labour for the subsequent days- I really did feel strong from this, felt good gains coming on and am quite convinced that such a style of workout could have a place for me.

The Beast

[Nibile]

Yesterday I had another proof that fingerboarding is a tricky beast and must be treated as such.
Despite feeling good, I felt I could not match my previous session, which had been last Sunday. The first sets on back3 went very well, but then my fingers were already too tired for front3 and the small rungs.
Before the strong Sunday session I had done very little board climbing on Saturday (2/10 volume), while the day before yesterday I had had an almost full board session.
From Sunday to yesterday I have trained - in different ways and at various intensities - Mon, Wed, and then yesterday. Monday on the board was very very strong.
But clearly yesterday I hadn't recovered enough for a strong BM session.
I can't think about putting together an intense FB session with anything else.
I hope this helps.

[Monolith]

Word Nibile. I think that is what I poorly tried to convey; only light use of the fingerboard in conjunction with weights. No SCIENCE from me mind.

[Styx]

So along similar lines, if I'm going to boulder the same day as doing a fingerboard workout what kind of stuff should I be doing? I'm guessing 4x4's, etc are out and I should be doing volume at my onsight level to continue working strength?

[Nibile]

I think that doing onsight volume doesn't produce strength training.
If you want to climb after fingerboarding, I think you should go on steep problems with big moves between good holds.
Strength is all about quality, not quantity, so you'll have to tailor well your double sessions.

[rodma]

 

So along similar lines, if I'm going to boulder the same day as doing a fingerboard workout what kind of stuff should I be doing? I'm guessing 4x4's, etc are out and I should be doing volume at my onsight level to continue working strength?

And, if your fingerboard session is in any way successful, you'll struggle to boulder at your onsite level anyway. My forearms are normally toast after a proper routine.

[Styx]

Cool, thanks guys.

I normally do a fingerboard session after lunch then in the evening I've usually recovered just enough to do a pull up workout which leaves me feeling pretty wasted but I was tempted to replace the pull ups with some bouldering instead but that sounds like good advice Nibile, thanks.

[Nibile]

There's a lot more that you can do, so many bodyweight excercises for core tension for example. I generally do front lever pulls after or during fingerboarding.
Anyway good luck with your training!