[T.H.]

:D  I've just handed in my dissertation.  A ten thousand word masterpice all about the physiological determinants of rock-climbing.

Apparently, if you make your fingers stronger, you will be able to climb harder things.  Now isn't that a revelation.

I tell you, I've spent at least a couple of hours writing this thing, and it's going to set the world of rock-climbing coaching alight.  Neil Gresham is probably quaking in his boots right now.

(except for the fact that I faked all the results) :wink:

[Paz]

Well done lad.  Did you not have to cite Gresham in your references?!

[T.H.]

No, I don't think he's done any research of his own.  If he has, he hasn't had it published in any decent journal, and I wasn't desperate enough to use magazines and websites for information.

I just to refferred to the 'almost non-existence' of structured coaching in the UK.

You climbing later?

[Paz]

I was going to, but I'm just going to the pub now.

[T.H.]

Pub bad, campus board good!

[Trevor N]

I'm doing the exact same study right now for my AS level PE! I was in a funny mood when I chose to do this, as for a short time I valued being interested in a topic more than the ammount of work involved (not like me)!

Where did you find anything for your review of lit? All I could fin was a few breif discriptions of some studies on TFC. Also what tests do you do to measure their physiological attributes? And how did you measure their climbing ability?

I'm planning to test their physical attrinutes by using:

-Dead hangs (with progressively highe added weight) and Grip measuring thingys for static and isometric finger strength.

-Possably pull ups with added weight for Shoulder girdle strength

-Sitting on the floor, feet against the wall, reach foreward type thing for flexability.

-Double dynos for abdominal power (highest point they can sap up the wll, they dont need to catch the rung)

-Bycep and tryceps curls for byceps and tryceps

-And laddering on the campus board (1,2,3... on small rungs) for power endurence.

- and L hangs with added weight arround ankles for core tension (not excess weight, just a small amount of weight held for a reasonably long period of time)

I think some of these might be a bit dodgy (injury induceing), but my study is only for advanced and elliete climbers V4 and abouve, so they should be prepared for it if done properly. What do you think, can you improve on these (I only have what is at the wall, an a few weights and a grip measurer).

I'm testing the climbers climbing ability by setting boulder problems down at the Castle (If you live anywhere near and can climb realy hard get down there there are 9 of them, and will hopefully be tagged with "acid test!" tags by tomorrow!). They are really hard (roughly V3, V6/7, V7/8, V8, V8, V9, V9, V10/11, V11/12!)  but participants have a weak to try them (elliminateing luck, off days etc. as a variable) , and I will mark up not (setting any more), some more stuff between V3 and V6.

I don't think I know who you are, and I probably don't know you, but any awnsers to any of my questions would be a big help!

Cheers

Trev

[Doylo]

:D  I've just handed in my dissertation.  A ten thousand word masterpice all about the physiological determinants of rock-climbing.

Apparently, if you make your fingers stronger, you will be able to climb harder things.  Now isn't that a revelation.

I tell you, I've spent at least a couple of hours writing this thing, and it's going to set the world of rock-climbing coaching alight.  Neil Gresham is probably quaking in his boots right now.

(except for the fact that I faked all the results) :wink:

sounds a tad more interesting than my ongoing dissertation on Margaret Thatcher,when will this nightmare end :!:  :!:

[Trevor N]

Shit, look how much I wrote!

Most of you probably won't read that so:

As I mentioned in my last post I've set 9 new problems (most are very hard) at the Castle (ill be tagged "Acid test!" for those who are in the aria. They are there to try at your leasure, and if any of you wouldn't mind doing the tests sometime next week, then so much the better!

(if anybody is interested in the tests, please e-mail me at NaglerMJ@blueyonder.co.uk, but I will be there for most of next week)

[ian h]

alright trev how dos.

wont be able to help with your studies but good luck all the same hope all goes well.

might see you soonish

[Trevor N]

Alright Ian, I'm ok how are things with you (any climbing in the near future?)?

Don't think you will se me that soon, seeing as I have to be down the castle so much, I couldn't realy justify another climbing session (big Psychology coursework and another PE one to be handed in directly after half term (in for marking before), and I'm probably going to font during easter!). Then I'll have 3 weeks before I have to sit 4 exams!    

[ian h]

yeah not bad recovering after op nicely.

had a nice little trip to font. few nice probs but nothing hard.

still have to take it very easy at the wall though. i'm just still at the traversing around stage. think it will be quite a while before i can push myself.

font at easter sounds good you got a hit list?

[Trevor N]

Yeh but thereare about 40 problems on it, and I won't be able to do most of them (even if I tryed them all week)!

[T.H.]

Alright Trevor.

You don't know me, and I don't live down your way, but I will be next year so maybe we can catch up then.

What I'll do is e-mail you a copy of my dissertation, just remember you can't use the results because they were a figment of my imagination.

However, I've got loads of proper journal articles about the very thing you are investigating.

Also, I think my critique of the testing methods I used (which were based on previous studies) is pretty good and sould be useful.  I'll give some thougts to your testing methods as well if you think it will be useful.

Be warned, the reason I had to fake my results was because hardly anyone was willing to take part in my testing.  And noone can say there aren't a lot of climbers in and around Bristol.

[Trevor N]

Cheers that'll be great! and please feel free to critasise my methods as much as you like, it will be very useful. I can still change anything to do with the physical testing (I haven't started yet), and anything I can't change will be good as part of my analysis, so that would be a great help!

I thaught getting participants would be hard too, but out of the 6 people I have asked so far, everybody has agreed to take part!

[Paz]

Fantastic, apparently I'm an advanced and elite climber.  cheers trev.

[Dutch Master Killa]

Im in the middle of writing my bastard dissertation at the moment :evil:  "Rock climbing injuries and the psychological rehabilitation". Sounded interesting at the time but just cant be arsed now! Trevor your physical testing sounds pretty good for alround testing if not a bit gruelling!  Also on your lit review if you cant find loads on climbing fitness try and get some info on grip strength, flexibility etc. and try and relate it to climbing.  Dunt know what you've got in the way of journal but www.pubmed.com is a good search engine for journals and you can get some full text articles on it.  Also www.bjsportmed.com has quite a few journals on.  Good luck.

[T.H.]

Dutch Master Killa

I've got to do another dissertation next year too (don't ask).  I'm thinking of doing it on climber's knowledge of injury prevention and treatment, including that of your average punter, advanced climbers, and instructors.  Maybe include something on your average physio's knowledge of climbing injuries too.

Use all this to reccomend changes in BMC and ABC policy.

I've already got about 10 journal articles on climbing injuries and rehabilitation, but maybe you could PM me your reference list? :D

[paulh]

good job with the problems trevor, they are sick hard, and reading your torture schedule, I'm wondering what I've got myself into ...

Paul

[Trevor N]

paulh- Yeh but are they too hard? Most of the very good climbers are nowhere near anything I have given harder than V6/7! I didn't take into account when setting, that the problems will probably suit me, so the stuff that feals V9-11 to me may well be harder! Ah well, if the results look abit funny I can always tweek the way I "score" people (how much each problem is worth, how many problems count etc.) untill they look ok!
Also, are they ok to see (where it goes)? I got told off a bit for using differet types of holds on the same problem (they have to be e.g. red pusher, or blue liveing stone etc.).

ps I promice to make the testing as non-gruleing as possable!


Dutch Master Killa- Cheers for the sites, I havent used them yet but I'm sure they'll be very useful.

Can you (or anybody elce) thik of any ways of making my testing less taxing?

Paz- Another study classed elite as E1-E9 (not advanced and elite, just elite!)! Sory about that!

Cheers Trevor

[Paz]

I'm still smilingcos I'm a smug bastard

[mireeves]

Didn't Moon go to Oslo University alot to train with a sports scientist over there, I have vague recollections that there was a board with sci-fi esque sensor and stuff.

Anyone looking for a topic I'd be interested to see a the result from a Drugs and there use in Climbing. You could test a cross section of grade and geographical areas, and look for trends.

[Dutch Master Killa]

T.H.- These are the journals that might be best, not that much on physical rehab though, except whats in the journals listed.

Haas, J.C. Meyers, M.C. (1995) Rock Climbing Injuries. Sports Medicine, 20, (3), pp. 199-205.

Bollen, S.R. & Gunson, C.K. (1990) Hand injuries in competition climbers. British Journal of Sports Medicine, 24, (1), pp. 16-18.

Warme, W.J. & Brooks, D. (2000) The Effect of Circumferential Taping on Flexor Tendon Pulley Failure in Rock Climbers. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 28, (5), pp. 674-678.

Gabl, M. Rangger, C. Lutz, M. Fink, C. Rudisch, A. & Pechlaner, S (1998) Disruption of the Finger Flexor Pulley System in Elite Rock Climbers. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 26, (5), pp. 651-655.

Jebson, P.J.L. & Steyers, C.M. (1997) Hand Injuries in Rock Climbing; Reaching the Right Treatment. The Physician and Sportsmedicine, 25, (5), pp. 54-63.

Rooks, M.D. Johnston, R.B. Ensor, C.D. McIntosh, B. James, S. (1995) Injury Patterns in Recreational Rock Climbers. The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 23, (6),  pp.683-685.

Good luck wi it- Have fun

[cofe]

Didn't Moon go to Oslo University alot to train with a sports scientist over there, I have vague recollections that there was a board with sci-fi esque sensor and stuff.

Marius Morstad innit, yeah yeah.