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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: r-man on September 05, 2006, 04:05:13 pm

Title: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: r-man on September 05, 2006, 04:05:13 pm
Watched Keenus do his project at the Tor today. Awesome effort, well done that man.

 :thumbsup:

Here's a video (you need to right click and save target):

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/53447/Keen%20Roof.AVI

He says he's calling it Keen Roof.  ;D
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: cofe on September 05, 2006, 04:06:34 pm
well done james. good job you didn't have that extra bit of naan bread...
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: andy_e on September 05, 2006, 04:10:00 pm
Effort yoot. Is that right of Ben's Roof? (Tor newbie  :-[)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: james on September 05, 2006, 05:27:17 pm
Starts sitting in the left hand corner of the cave (feet not on crumbly slab but you know that allready ;)) and goes out through the roof a few meters right of bens to finish in the evolution break.  Am happy to have finally done it, fell far too many times on easy finishing ground :wall:.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: monkey boy on September 05, 2006, 06:09:02 pm
It was inspiring to watch an awesome effort man! :great:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bubba on September 05, 2006, 08:11:33 pm
Fine stuff James - I like the choice of name :lol:

Video on the web same day? Nice one r-man.


Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Pantontino on September 05, 2006, 10:31:17 pm
Well done that man!  :beer2:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Jim on September 05, 2006, 10:51:17 pm
bon fucking effort word.
bout time an'all
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 06, 2006, 09:31:15 am
 Brilliant effort! You've got to be pleased with bagging just about the best unclimbed proj on peak limestone and it's hard and it's at the mighty tor and it's a proper line and not a stamina linkup! Just in the nick of time, what with the seepage and your trip away in a weeks time.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Johnny Brown on September 06, 2006, 09:46:02 am
All he's got to do now is do summat on grit harder than the ace, and he can usurp Jerry as 'King of the Peak'. It would bring a tear to my eye to see the crown go back to a local.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Falling Down on September 08, 2006, 12:05:36 pm
Nice effort James.... :beer2:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Nibile on September 08, 2006, 01:48:49 pm
congrats mate!!!
 :beer2:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: r-man on September 08, 2006, 02:54:12 pm
Just wondering, does this line have any history? Has it been tried/talked about by any of the previous Tor kings? Mighty though 8B is, it's a grade that a fair few Tor denizens have been capable of over the years... And its such an obvious line as well. Was it just too hard?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Adam Lincoln on September 08, 2006, 03:00:01 pm
I predict a second ascent this weekend........
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Johnny Brown on September 08, 2006, 03:35:31 pm
Quote
it's a grade that a fair few Tor denizens have been capable of over the years... And its such an obvious line as well. Was it just too hard?

I dare say it fell foul of the yorkshire mentality - ie you know extremely good climbers have tried the line, so there's no point you trying it. Or even if it seems doable, they gave up so it must either be shit or too easy to bother with (or the true yorkshire put-down - if you have managed it, then it will have been done by 'the bingley lads' in the mid-eighties, who weren't so arrogant as you are to think summmat so easy worth was recording, eh lad, nah piss off 'ome). Hence stuff never gets done.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Stubbs on September 08, 2006, 03:39:53 pm
I dare say it fell foul of the yorkshire mentality

Quit living in the 90's it's all happiness and light up here now.

Nice one James, looks like a great problem.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 08, 2006, 03:54:52 pm
 I'll ask the Harris this weekend he's bound to know. I seem to recall that Moony has tried it. The roof holds have been chalked for as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on September 08, 2006, 05:45:45 pm
Effort Darse, effort!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on September 10, 2006, 11:00:26 pm
Tyler and Ryan were trying this on sat, neither were close to linking it.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: a dense loner on September 11, 2006, 11:11:10 am
i should bloody hope not in a session, it's a big grade.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Johnny Brown on September 11, 2006, 12:52:39 pm
Tyler reckoned the pocket was extremely likely to injure tendons. So much so he spent Sunday at The School instead. It does piss me off these non-members clogging the place up.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: cofe on September 11, 2006, 01:07:28 pm
is this the hardest independent problem on peak limestone?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 11, 2006, 01:14:08 pm
It's good to hear that 8b climbers make lame excuses when they struggle on things too ;)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 11, 2006, 01:39:23 pm
Fantastic effort and about time this was climbed. It is a very cool line that although being totally independant, was rarely attempted-possibly due to constant seepage of the pocket.

Im a bit surprised that james didnt start as per Bens roof, as for me this was the obvious challenge. The line was climbed previously two moves further into the problem from the obvious good hold at approximately 8a+, but was never completed as per the start of Bens Roof. I suppose james start is more ideal than starting at the good hold, but could be improved upon by someone with the sufficent talent.

As for tylers comment on the pocket, i really cannot see how this pocket can be of a dangerous nature for a climber of his calibre- the hold is positive, not sharp and fairly deep allowing at least 2 fingers to be used.  I believe there really is nothing to worry about when attempting this problem.

For an extra grade, and one of the most amazing moves around, try the two hard moves without the use of foothooks. Truly fantastic.

Another line cleaned up- just the dogs dinner traverse now. Go for it.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: james on September 11, 2006, 02:37:12 pm
Firstly, thanks for the congrats but I have to dissagree with you on one point. 
I didnt climb the problem from the start of bens because I thought it would detract from what is otherwise a good problem.
Keen roof starts sitting in the left corner of the cave, on 2 jugs, and takes a pretty much straight line.  It is non eliminate, all the holds are nice, good moves etc.  To start as bens roof, you would firstly, have to know where the legit start to bens roof is as the holds are not at all obvious :shrug: (out of intrest, what are the official starting holds, I have never really known).  You would then nedd to do the first few moves (keeping your arse off the floor) to get to my start, then turn nearly 180 degrees :thumbsdown: and go out throught the roof.

The option to link bens into keen roof is there.  Just like the option to link all the other problems together.  Although if you are going to start bens, maybe you should go the full monty and start as for the bens extension?

Keen roof, in my opinion, takes the most obvious line through the roof from a sit start to a juggy break.  But at the end of the day, its only limestone.

Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 11, 2006, 04:01:22 pm
Horses for courses i suppose. For me it made sense to add a harder, direct ending to Bens roof, hence starting at the beginning of Bens roof. I can see your point as to why one would start from where you have. I suppose i am a little miffed that had i thought to start from here, i dare say i would have made the first ascent. But it's to late now, and the least of my worries anymore.

Needless to say wherever you started, you conqurered two very good hard moves, which is the whole meat of the problem.

Good luck in Colorado. Cheers Rich.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: james on September 11, 2006, 05:49:37 pm
You snooze you loose ;)  Probably still time for a repeat before the seepage starts too much.

Heard about recent goings on from bungle, hope it is not too bad!

Colorado here I come :wave:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dave on September 11, 2006, 07:40:53 pm
To start as bens roof, you would firstly, have to know where the legit start to bens roof is as the holds are not at all obvious :shrug: (out of intrest, what are the official starting holds, I have never really known).

generally a move lower than whatever you try.

i started it off the big lefthand sloper, and a little RH pinch at the same height, then up into the good backhand pocket thing (the ones that's always wet).
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Andy Harris on September 12, 2006, 12:55:26 pm
A fine effort indeed James and an ever increasing rarity of finding a new line at the Tor. Nice to add your own bit of history to a place so rich in it.

As for lines well so what. You were the one who bothered to put the effort in and therefore that's the line. If someone wants to start it from Ben's roof it'll always be a variation on your line. What it does show is how blinkered people are (myself included). I would never thought of starting it where you did (Having thrown a few laps on the roof I'm magentically drawn to the holds Dave so correctly pointed out) and what you have is a more pleasant better flowing line that more importantly you did. The other variation can wait.

There are still 2 R-L traverse to go starting from either the 1st chimes jug or starting under the roof at the crimpy 7c start. Both at least 8a+.

I'm sure Tyler had tried Keen Roof previously for a session or 2 so it must rank pretty hard to his recent RMNP sends. As for grades it's nice to see a mighty 8b added to the Tor and something for me to tinker on in my latter years. Would be interesting to see how it ranks next to Hubble as I'd put that at at least a full grade harder. Not bad for 1990! Maybe James has been on it.

Andy
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Syked Tyler on September 12, 2006, 09:33:18 pm
Saturday was my first session on the roof.
it is a good bloc, and is difficult also.
i think the line james chose was the obvious one, and for someone to add another start, i think would take away from Keen roof.
it is strong effort indeed, and a proud first ascent.
hopefully this winter will hold much more in the department of hard new first ascents......
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Johnny Brown on September 12, 2006, 09:44:27 pm
Jeez, you just don't get this shit on Cocktalk! Four giants of Uk bouldering, verbally sparring whilst we listen agog.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: cofe on September 12, 2006, 09:59:03 pm
true: tyler, james, dave and johnny brown giving it verbal beans. to die for.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: bigphil on September 13, 2006, 07:34:53 am
Not to mention you Cofe.  We're just not worthy. :bow:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 13, 2006, 11:54:27 pm
Whilst completing meaningless tasks at work today, I gave a lot of consideration to the above topic. After thinking it over I feel compelled to follow up my previous comments, in which I held back a little with the fear of sounding bitter or bringing a controversial nature to what is a good effort by James. However, in doing so important history of this problem has been held back to.

I cannot see how James line can be classed as a first ascent. I climbed this line, sans the first 2 moves (English 5c/6a) several times, but considered it only progress on what was to be the full line from the back of the cave starting as per bens roof, hence no first ascent claim.

Obviously James considers his line to be the most worthy way to start the problem, yet this adds pretty much nothing to what had already been climbed previously- starting from the two good holds and climbing out.

Therefore, as discussed throughout this thread, James line should be considered a variation on what I climbed, except I feel my line is a non-line and somewhat incomplete without a starting at the beginning of Bens roof.

Obviously opinions differentiate, yet surely one cannot claim a first ascent, nor remove significance of a previously climbed line by adding 2 moves of relative ease.
From a previous discussion at this problem, James was aware that I had climbed this problem from the stated place and also agreed that the line is 8a+ from here.
I feel it's important that just because I didn't shout about, nor publicize my incomplete ascent, there is still no reason for it to be brushed under the carpet until superseded- which it is yet to be.

Im sorry for bringing as downer on a somewhat impressive effort. However this line, although attempted very little, meant a great deal to me and I am not happy for it to be bought into disrepute.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Matt on September 14, 2006, 07:30:31 am
Subject: Re: Buoux Roof SS - 8B  ;)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 14, 2006, 08:42:46 am
Buoux - You can't re-write the rule book because it doesn't suite you. James climbed the problem from a logical start position, by your own admission you didn't. If you wanted to get the FA of the line you should have added these two extra moves, just as a holding measure while you did what you considered the full line. James' choice of start position is entirely logical as it is the first point on the problem from which you can start sitting, therefore it is the non eliminate sit start, I see no case to claim it is a non-problem. I'm sure if you could repeatedly do the hard bit you could have linked the extra bit, but you didn't. It's like doing a prob with a dab, you may be clearly able to do the prob, but you dabbed therefore no tick, harsh but fair, thems the rules, same for everyone. You could claim this higher start, or you could add the Ben's Roof start. As an aside adding this start would render the problem an eliminate for a second reason i.e. there is a kneebar rest at the junction, which I assume you would be eliminating, which is another good reason for where Keen Roof starts.
 What do you mean by the problem being 'b[r]ought into disrepute'? I can see how you may be pissed off at the mistake you have made, but what has James done wrong exactly?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on September 14, 2006, 08:47:58 am
I  might as well add my 2 cents worth... But firstly, good effort to Rich and James, who have both climbed a difficult section of rock.

It would seem that the holds which James started from are simply a different set of random holds from the ones Rich climbed from. The fact that they form a possible sit start in some instances would make a difference. However, in a low cave, where there are many points for a sit start which one does one choose for a logical sit start. Ben's Roof is the original problem through that section of rock, and that start is down on the right. Why? I don't know, bit historically that was the challenge, and the one we all accept when we try Ben's Roof. Nobody would think of starting where James has started and climb to the end of Ben's Roof and then claim this as a problem. That would be a subset of the problem Ben's Roof and so not a problem in it's own right. I thought the new problem would be a different and much more difficult end to Ben's Roof. If Rich climbed the difficult section many times, but then failed to do or try it from the start of Ben's Roof, then he doesn't have a first ascent, but it should be noted that he has climbed that piece of rock. The first ascent should come with the full line. Given any problem, is it permissible to add 2 moves and then claim a first ascent? I think we are all agreed this is a bit silly. Well what about when someone adds a sit start to any given problem, we then give them credit for the FA of the SS to an existing problem. BUT, what happens when the problem is in a low cave, where there exist many sit starts, which one takes precedence. We wouldn't want to end up with a position like in Hollow Mountain cave where you can pretty much start anywhere, climb any direction, and finish anywhere then take the V-grade for what you did and have a problem (clearly I have exaggerated this slightly but you get my point). To me that is not a particularly good situation. Surely it has to be the original starting point of Ben's Roof. This would be a valid and historically respectful start (I think).

I think that if that piece of rock had been virgin this would be a different situation, but we already have Ben's roof. Whatever the reasons for starting where that starts, we are now in a position that we have some history by which to judge ourselves. We test ourselves against those who came before.

What has been climbed has been climbed and it's interesting to note how two different climbers have approached it. Rich climbed it without 2 moves, James addded 2 moves (supposedly english 5c/6a), and now I look forward for another mutant to start from the beginning and finish at the end.

Please note, these ideas were formed in the realm of meta climbing so have no direct relation to anything real. My apologies.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 14, 2006, 09:07:00 am
Quote
However, in a low cave, where there are many points for a sit start which one does one choose for a logical sit start.
It's up to the first ascentionist, i.e. the first person to climb it from any of said sit starts. This is how it's been on all other probs for as long as I can remember. What's different about this case?
Quote
Ben's Roof is the original problem through that section of rock, and that start is down on the right. Why?
Simple, because that's where Ben chose to start. The fact it follows the line of the rest of Ben's roof and is consistent in difficulty (ie pretty easy relatively speaking) is beside the point.
Quote
is it permissible to add 2 moves and then claim a first ascent?
Of course it is if said two moves lands you at an entirely logical place to start the problem, as opposed to a none-start.
Quote
We wouldn't want to end up with a position like in Hollow Mountain cave where you can pretty much start anywhere, climb any direction, and finish anywhere then take the V-grade for what you did and have a problem (clearly I have exaggerated this slightly but you get my point).
Have you been to HMC? The lines are pretty well defined, it is a fair sized cave. Certainly a shit load more well defined and logical than for instance Parisella's, a place which is full of what you might consider arbitary start and finish points, all (or most) of which are accepted as problems by UK boulder's without a second thought.
Quote
historically respectful
Sorry, that is meaningless nonesense (I think). This is a sport not a religion.
From my perspective what you and Rich are saying represents an outdated view on bouldering, a 90s view, when eliminates and rules on probs where the norm. You only have to look at the sort of rationalistation of old rule based problems in the Peak and North Wales guides and at the Bowderstone to see that this is not the way it works these days.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Ru on September 14, 2006, 09:29:58 am
Lets face it, bouldering has lots of arbitrary starts anyway. The meat of this problem is the hard section from the pod in the roof. The introductory moves add a logical start and perhaps a grade, I don't know I've not tried it. The pod in the middle of the roof is something of a logical start point anyway, not in terms of the "line", but in terms of the standard of the climbing - start at the big jug at the start of the difficulties and climb into the light. I would say that Rich got the FA of the stand up line, James got the FA of the left hand sitter, the RH sitter awaits an ascent. The fact that James' is the most logical start perhaps doesn't prevent the other variations from existing. It would seem to me that if Rich had claimed the line from a stand up from the beginning this discussion wouldn't be taking place. Bouldering history should, afterall, document what was done, not what was claimed.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Houdini on September 14, 2006, 09:31:47 am
This is a sport

Never ever have I disagreed more with an opinion of yours Bonjoy.

This is not a sport.  There are no rules, no ref, no opponent, no point scoring system.  This is an art, dammit.  You say tmaytaz...


Keen Roof is a stunning effort:  FUCKING STUNNING.  You whiners stop pissing on his fire!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 14, 2006, 09:35:22 am
Sorry John, But i disagree entirely. The position james started is no more logical from where i started. They both formed a start, low down just before the hard section of climbing, however, the only difference being that i found this incomplete because i intended to start at bens roof and James didn't. The climbing is no different, James just starting a little lower than myself, more for the point of adding a 'true' sit start than anything else (which i tend to avoid).

The reason i didn't link the extra bit of climbing, was in hindsight because i found it irrelevant. Why add two moves of ease to a hard two move boulder problem, just for the sake if it. I am certain that the line james has climbed is in no way harder from the line i climbed. It's not about re-writing the rule book as you suggest. I dont particuarly care about climbing anymore, and if it where at any other crag i wouldnt give a shit, yet raven tor has been the forefront of my motivationa and inspiration thourought my career so it's rightly important that Raven tors history is correct and still as inspiring for other generations as it was for me.
Having keen roof as a first ascent in not correct- keen roof is a variation on what i climbed, adding a further move to start  a little bit more sitting. What if i where to go back and climb keen roof from one hold lower to James, would that make his problem irrelevant- i didn't think so.

I cannot see the logic in using a comparison of a dab, to this scenario. A dab would make any ascent void, a clean ascent of which i did would not be considered void in anyones eyes? surely?

Im not claiming that james has done anything wrong, i like the guy and consider him a friend. Yet I also liked climbing and considered that a firend, it's important that i look out for both interests.

At the end of the day, from where i climbed the line is as logical as where James climbed it from. Just because james may be more popular in the climbing front than myself dosent make his ascent any more valid. My line starts in the obvious large holds, James starts a move lower- adds no difficulty to the grade, nor any better climbing to the line. Im sure some may say (myself included) that james line detracts from where i stated- adding two easy moves of no significance on polished rock,  just for the sake of starting on my arse- which incidentally you can also do from where i started.

It's clear this will fall on death ears, like everything else that goes on in climbing. A Shame really- but such is life.

If you still feel strongly, give me a shout when you see me next. il look forward to discussing it with you further.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Stu Littlefair on September 14, 2006, 09:55:19 am
Lordy - what a shitstorm  :o Maybe we should remember that we're all mates here? Often on the internet it's hard to judge the tone of peoples responses because a 50 word missive just doesn't contain the nuances that proper conversation does. I'm sure if James and Rich were having this discussion in the pub then there would be no bad feelings stirred up at all...

The whole situation seems a little similar to the Ace and the Joker (with the exception that the Ace makes a big leap in difficulty, whereas James' start probably doesn't). Those problems can coexist, so I'm sure we can come to some arrangement here too. How about Ru and Pantontino state in their tablets-of-magazine/stone that Rich first climbed the problem from the obvious stand-up start, and then James added a logical sit-start in the back of the cave. Neutral, uncontroversial and historically correct. Both clearly get large heapings of wad points and then Rupert, Andy and Myself can get massively injured trying for a repeat. Deal?

Of course, Rich's start will need a name too - how about "Angry Youth"? (No offence meant Rich....)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on September 14, 2006, 10:06:16 am
Just to add, I have equal animosity towards everyone on these boards ;) . I am friends with both James and Rich and know how much climbing means (or did mean) to them. What Rich is saying, I think, is that this boulder problem is 8A+ regardless where you start (Rich or James' start) but the start from Ben's Roof will be harder again and a good thing to climb.

I guess the difficult section of rock was first conquered by Rich and then James. They have both climbed something damn hard. That's the point. Isn't it?

I love you all. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. And remember, I'm packing more heat than an oven door.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: webbo on September 14, 2006, 10:18:06 am
art my arse. :spank:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 14, 2006, 10:21:50 am
 Stu is bang on about nuances being lost on the interweb. There's no one in this discussion I don't consider a friend, please take what I say in that context.
 Rich - Just to clarify, IMO where you started is a valid, if less satisfactory, starting position. Like Ru said, this is only an issue because you chose not to claim it at the time, instead bringing it up retrospectively after James already had.
 The dab thing was to illustrate the point that being clearly good enough to do something (i.e linking the two extra moves) is not the same as actually doing something. Not to suggest that your ascent was invalid per se.
 My argument as far as I see it is based entirely on the application of the usual 'rules' of climbing to this ascent, the person/s involved and their relative popularity doesn't come into it at all.
 My three reasons for being impertinent enough to argue about things way out of my league are that I disagreed with the point you are making, secondly that James is away in the states and therefore may not have chance to reply for some time and thirdly I love a good debate especially when i'm confident i'm right  ;).
 I'm really sad to hear you aren't interested in climbing anymore. Sack off the gloves your true home is on the rock.

Houdini - I retract my glib reference to climbing as a sport. It was lazy. I was just trying to cut through what I saw as excessive reverence. Maybe change it to, climbing is a drug not a religion.

Edited for spelling mistakes only
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on September 14, 2006, 10:41:10 am
What Rich is saying, I think, is that this boulder problem is 8A+ regardless where you start (Rich or James' start)
That would be the downgrade prior to the repeat then?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 14, 2006, 10:51:20 am
Just a quick response, as although Raven Tor is just about as important as it gets, it's not worth getting sacked for.

I agree with Stuart-Bonjoy- Ru and Keith in parts. But what I certainly agree with is that there is or was no hard feelings from my part. I would just like to use a quote from the seemingly wise midget, which I feel hits the nail right on the head.

Quote
Often on the internet it's hard to judge the tone of peoples responses because a 50 word missive just doesn't contain the nuances that proper conversation does. I'm sure if James and Rich were having this discussion in the pub then there would be no bad feelings stirred up at all...

I understand Bonjoy that you feel the need to speak for James, I was unaware that he had already left and hope that there are no bad feelings on his part.

Quote
What Rich is saying, I think, is that this boulder problem is 8A+ regardless where you start (Rich or James' start) but the start from Ben's Roof will be harder again and a good thing to climb.


Wasn't particularly going down that route, but you would be right in suggesting it. I climbed the line without the use of foot-hooks (eliminate I know), because I felt the moves where so much better and more motivational- something I was lacking hugely at the time. Without hooks it is 8B- with the use of hooks, I dare say this problem is a different caliber and more likely bottom end 8a+ ball park- Being significantly easier than Hubble and Superman, which are 8B and 8A+ respectively. Bear in mind that I am the only person to have climbed all three, and can only put the problems in retro spectacle order of difficulty. Of which the roof is the easiest-, but possibly the best.

Good night ladies xx :hug:

Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 14, 2006, 10:55:39 am
I do not need to repeat an extra two easy moves to know wether or not it is 8B. Compared with the two problems stated above it will be 8A+ starting at either place. It may be 8B from bens roof, but then again, probably not.

James already commented to me that he thought 8a+, so i dont understand the logic in him saying 8B?

But thats up to him obviously and he's more than entitled to his opinion.

Give this prolem 8B and you must upgrade several around it-which i am sure some soft shites will do in the near future. :kiss1:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: strong man on September 14, 2006, 11:03:52 am
its all good you saying this rich, but really you have not done keen roof and until you have, you have no place stating its grade and difficulty.
although you may have done your random stand start, as much as you wish it did, that really has no relevance.
you do not climb anymore and this is no longer your place to make cocky comments about how much better you think you are than the rest of the world.

edited to remove abusive remark
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 14, 2006, 11:09:29 am
Ha Ha.

i thought i said good night ladies in my last post. Send me a message if you have a problem. It's obvious you really know what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Houdini on September 14, 2006, 11:46:57 am
art my arse. :spank:

Up yours Granddad!   ;)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: webbo on September 14, 2006, 12:04:07 pm
art my arse. :spank:

Up yours Granddad!   ;)

not as far as i know.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Houdini on September 14, 2006, 12:09:06 pm
art my arse. :spank:

Up yours Granddad!   ;)

not as far as i know.

You do pretty well, considering...

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/houdini2/zimmer.jpg)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: webbo on September 14, 2006, 12:12:02 pm
i've had wheels and handle fitted to my pad so i can use that as a zimmer.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Houdini on September 14, 2006, 12:22:26 pm
Smart!

May I suggest you shove this...

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/houdini2/stick.jpg)

...up your ass to stop yourself falling over when you're queuing to get this:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/houdini2/pensionbook.jpg)






Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Greencar on September 14, 2006, 12:22:52 pm
Well done James, bon effort on keen roof. Keep your chin up and don't listen to the non sensical green eyed pricks that try and dis your line. Be proud. The rest of us are of us are grinning with you.  :thumbsup:  :dance1:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: webbo on September 14, 2006, 12:40:00 pm
Smart!

May I suggest you shove this...

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/houdini2/stick.jpg)

...up your ass to stop yourself falling over when you're queuing to get this:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/houdini2/pensionbook.jpg)

as i'm one of those superannuated nhs employees with special pension rights.i'll be well retired before i need a pension book. :great:







Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on September 14, 2006, 01:01:24 pm
Well done James, bon effort on keen roof. Keep your chin up and don't listen to the non sensical green eyed pricks that try and dis your line. Be proud. The rest of us are of us are grinning with you.  :thumbsup:  :dance1:

ha ha. non sensical green eyed pricks. Very good. Perhaps it's more a case of a lack of understanding from people driving green cars.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dobbin on September 14, 2006, 01:06:42 pm
Rupert, Stu - small guys, big brains. You talk a lot of sense!

I too, love everyone involved on this thread and am concerned to see Rich saying things like 'liked climbing' and 'dont particularly care about climbing anymore' - thats a real shame, I hope you come back fella.

I dont understand why you didnt claim your problem in the first place. If you felt it inconsequential then why are we arguing about it? To retro claim it following someone elses ascent makes you look bitter.

James has looked at the line of the climbing and followed it back to the lowest possible starting point. This neither invalidates your ascent or makes his any better. Rupert is on the money - you have the first ascent of the stand, James has the sitter.

Greencar - you really have missed the point. Thanks for your contribution.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Greencar on September 14, 2006, 02:08:40 pm
i have not missed the point. james has made the first ascent of a problem at raven tor. And as a witness of this ascent, it was very impressive and deserves recognition. Rich has come online claiming he did it first (minus the starting moves), but doesn't care anyway as he no longer cares about climbing, which i agree is a shame, because he is very good and an inspiration to others. But in doing this he has appeared imho to be as bitter as lemon or quote 'a little miffed'. To then attempt to downgrade it, seemed to me as being non sensical in a very controversial way.
My reply was not aimed at any of the other people posting, they all made alot of sense, especially bonjoy, ru and dobbin.
Its a shame to see friends battling. If it meant so much to Rich (does he or does he not care? I am confused by his replies) then he should have put his hand up when it mattered. He did not. As james said: you snooze you loose.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Andy Harris on September 14, 2006, 03:34:10 pm
Cor blimey. What a pullava!

I'm not going to take sides or give any explanation for this (I think they've all been exercised) it just feels right in some rather odd circumstances. Here's my suggestion:

The problems is named "Keen roof" and the history books note (she does love a little controversey) both variants and asscentionists and the ruccus it caused on a little thing called the tinternet.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dave on September 14, 2006, 05:17:11 pm
whats that about superman?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Dave Westlake on September 14, 2006, 05:21:07 pm
I dont know the people involved, have never been to raven tor, and dont climb 8b - but one thing i can confirm, having read the previous discussion, is that 'Buoux 8c' comes across EXTREMELY BADLY  :thumbsdown: in his internet posts

Anyone would think climbing is a competitive sport!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Matt on September 14, 2006, 06:43:27 pm
Or the plural 'Keen roofs' (SS).

Hopefully, rich gets back to being keen as from the sound of it as it would be a sad loss of talent.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Huffy on September 14, 2006, 07:01:00 pm
This post has nothing to do with the 'Keen Roof' politics, i wouldn't know where to start and am not particularly interested either. Hats off to the two young guns though, they're both beasts.
This post is just to stick up for Rich a bit here with regards to the last comment. I personally like the fact that rich is open, honest and brave enough to say what he thinks. There is a real bitchiness in bouldering and people on this site (who i suspect dont know the guy) are often hypersensitive to his comments, reacting like News of the world readers...he said...she said bullshit scandal e.g.

this is no longer your place to make cocky comments about how much better you think you are than the rest of the world.
or;
he has appeared imho to be as bitter as lemon or quote 'a little miffed'. To then attempt to downgrade it, seemed to me as being non sensical in a very controversial way.
***I Can't be arsed qualifying Rich's reason for suggesting 8a+, please read over his post***

It's basically way too easy to 'manufacture' controversy by taking his comments out of context. Anyone can do it and you dont need to know anything about the characters you're having a pop at either. It is for this reason that i respect Rich, as he tollerates the clucking hen club and continues to express his honest opinion.

Good luck in States James, sure you'll tear it up out there!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: north_country_boy on September 14, 2006, 07:21:03 pm
Nice one Huffy, I've been of the same opinion throughout this post........... and have been awaiting the inevitable slagging off of Rich!

Only met Rich a few times, but he instantly strikes you as an honest and passionate guy, for which I respect, even if you don't agree with his opinions! Its all too easy for people to slag people off and start bitchiness on the net......something which seems to happen a lot on here!
However anyone who has met Rich will know he's just as likely too share his opinion face to face as he is over the forums........something which I doubt some people on here would do!......

Anyway Good effort guys with the problem.

Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on September 14, 2006, 08:06:35 pm
Huffy, you are a wise man.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: james on September 14, 2006, 08:16:47 pm
You just cant help yourself Richard, can you?  It upsets me when people attempt to be-little others, i really cant understand the motivation.  I thought that you were going to try to be a little bit more supportive to other people in future, but I guess a leopard can't change its spots.

People can claim whatever they like, be they shit or good, eliminate or non, link up or line. As time passes, the climbing public will deem some lines worthy of remembering and others not.  Only time will tell as to whether Keen roof will be remembered, I think it will, but I will have to wait and see.

For people that don't know ravens tor, or don't quite understand where Keen and Ben's roof go, here is a little diagram.  Please excuse the poor quality, as has allready been mentioned, I am in America and so away from my computer.  The yellow line is Ben's, the red is Keen, the black circle is where Richard says he started from. 

(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/856/2402/320/cave.jpg)

In my opinion it would be a very contrived line to start as for Ben's roof, you can see the almost 180 degree turn you would have to make.  Also, as bonjoy said, there is a kneebar (no-hands) rest at the 180 degree turn so you could hang out there for as long as you liked and recover before starting Keen.  If you eliminated the kneebar to make it harder then it would be just that, a harder eliminate

For me to put time in to doing a new problem, it has to be a good, non eliminate, obvious line.  I chose to start Keen roof from the left because this is the place that best fitted the above specification.  The Ben's start would be contrived, eliminate and unobvious.  The roof start whilst being non eliminate is a little unobvious and misses out on some really good moves (not 2 5c/6a moves like Richard incorrectly stated, but a short V6?) that do tire you out and make the whole problem harder, and Richard, before you make another throw away comment about how good climbers "don't get tired on v6's" just like the comment you made to Tyler earlier about how good climbers should not have to worry about their tendons on this problem...
 
As for Tyler's comment on the pocket, i really cannot see how this pocket can be of a dangerous nature for a climber of his caliber- the hold is positive, not sharp and fairly deep allowing at least 2 fingers to be used.  I believe there really is nothing to worry about when attempting this problem.
please save your breath.  I know you think everyone else is worthless compared to yourself, Ben and Malcolm, and that using your feet is something to be frowned upon etc etc, but other peoples opinions and feelings are important too. 


Please don't think that I am saying that the Ben's start is silly, or that Ben's should start from where I started Keen as this could not be further from the truth.  As you can see from the diagram, that is the obvious start, for Ben's roof, which creates a nice sweeping line around the left wall of the cave.  However, Keen roof does not follow the wall but goes through the roof (essentially nothing to do with Ben's roof) and so the Ben's start is not suitable (if we are talking about original lines and not link-ups).

I would also like to clear up a few points from earlier on in this thread:

From a previous discussion at this problem, James was aware that I had climbed this problem from the stated place and also agreed that the line is 8a+ from here.

We talked briefly about the moves after I had spent 2 sessions trying it.  Never did you mention that you had linked the problem from the undercuts in the roof, only that you had done the move to the lip.  I said I thought the problem would be 8a+ from the back (my first guess at the difficulty after 2 days trying it, after spending a further 7 or 8 days on it, I felt it was harder than 8a+ and so offered 8b) and you said you thought it would be 8b.  Never did we agree on 8a+ from the undercuts.

I'm sure some may say (myself included) that James line detracts from where i stated- adding two easy moves of no significance on polished rock,  just for the sake of starting on my arse- which incidentally you can also do from where i started.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I feel I must point out that unless you have either grown, or have had arm extensions, you could not start from the mid-roof undercuts, sat on the floor.  The first point you can start sitting is where I started.  I am taller than you and have longer arms and I found it a stretch to reach even these holds.


I presume that the above mistakes were just that.  I know it is easy to get carried away when you feel strongly about a subject, but you should be carefull about what you write.  It is easy for people to get the wrong end of the stick, mistakes get confused for lies, people get a reputation they may not deserve and it is a slippery slope from there.

It would seem that the holds which James started from are simply a different set of random holds from the ones Rich climbed from. The fact that they form a possible sit start in some instances would make a difference. However, in a low cave, where there are many points for a sit start which one does one choose for a logical sit start..

As I have said a few times, the starting holds for Keen are not at all random.  They are an obvious pair of jugs, and the first point in which you can sit start in the cave.  You are right about there being many points where you could sit start or more precisely, sit on the floor and touch rock with your hands.  You could even squirm in to the back and lie down if it took your fancy. So, "which one does one chose for a logical sit start.." How about the one that has two obvious jugs, and is the first point that your bottom can touch the floor???  Makes sense to me!

One last point, if people have an opinion, and feel strongly enough to say it then please don't try to make light of it by adding a silly jokey comment at the end.  What you say effects others, and it is up to you to decide if what you are going to say/write is worth it.  If you feel you need some kind of get out clause, is it really worth writing in the first place?  We saw it here a few months ago with this thread http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,5620.0.html (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,5620.0.html) and we have seen it again today.

I think Doylo sums it up nicely

what a load of shite, with mates like that who needs enemies

Exactly

Thankyou to the majority of people on here for your support.  It is much appreciated.  The park is beautiful and the climbing is ace. 
See you all soon.

James
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on September 14, 2006, 09:09:30 pm
Just read though what you have written briefly, it seams you have completely missed my point, which was certainly not to 'be little' your achievements as you put it. I can somewhat remember helping you and your climbing several times throughout the years with advice and such. Surely not the actions of someone who doesn't want you to succeed?

Anyway, since your in America, it would be a waste of time to explain my motives more clearly, especially in this forum. if i see you when im back, if your interested i will try to then.

Hope America goes well- really.

ps, just two notes to clear up. I was wrong in stating that one can start sitting from the pod in the roof, it is definitely a crouching start- not lies, just my poor memory and shortness of time.

pps, 
Quote
As for Tyler's comment on the pocket, i really cannot see how this pocket can be of a dangerous nature for a climber of his caliber- the hold is positive, not sharp and fairly deep allowing at least 2 fingers to be used.  I believe there really is nothing to worry about when attempting this problem.


This is not a dig whatsoever. Just merely stating that as a hard problem, this contains good positive holds that would be unlikely to injure a world class climber, especially in comparison to alot of other problems in this grade range.

Anyway, wont fuel this anymore by allowing people with to much time on there hands to take out of context what is written. If you have a problem, you know what to do.

With regards to the lines, Im past caring, this has been the final nail for me. Do what you want, believe what you want, il let you get on with your sport how you like it.

Adios

Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dave on September 14, 2006, 09:53:50 pm
this is dave parry's two penneth right here muthafuckers:

I've spent time in this cave trying bens roof over the last 2 summers and while resting have often walked around feeling holds in the roof etc with wonder. Now before this whole thing came to light I would have said the obvious line would have been starting as for ben's roof and then heading straight out somehow, instead of heading to the left wall or heading right to the 7c thing. Now whether or not that is possible any time soon or not only time will tell. I seem to remember there being holds that aught to have allowed this at at some high grade in the future.

Failing that ideal line, it sounds to me that keen's line is pretty logical. If rich had claimed his higher-start problem earlier people would probably have said "good effort, but why not start fully on the back/left wall instead of in limbo?" If i was rich i would have been tempted to at least take something like what james did at least as a fallback tick, afterall its a straight out line. To start in bens roof, come onto the sidewall, then out again although longer doesn't seem as logical to me personally, it more like a traverse-in problem. it would be like claiming staminahumps without first declaring powerhumps as its own problem. And lets not forget the kneebar in the corner is good enough to take both hands off and have a drink, eat a pastie, have a wank etc etc. like someone said doing this eliminating the rest would be a more locals eliminate type thing of minor interest - and even if this was your final goal you'd be daft not to do it with the rest as a fallback tick - oversight on rich's part maybe. maybe a lesson for future - always take the fallback tick. you never know when it might come in handy.

As a case in point, didn't everyone recon the sitter to the dominator only added 2 5b moves, but not only did it notch the grade up, but it wasn't like everyone thought it was shit, pointless, trivial or desrespectful to the original.

I hope someone can yank the iron out of the fire here and we can all hold hands and be buddies again. I can't think that rich is meaning to come across in the manner he clearly has on this thread, its certainly not the manner i'd expect him to be in real life, nor how I have found him to be. lets remember the internet is a bad place for this type of shit.

peace and fucking, believe.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on September 15, 2006, 05:59:04 pm
(http://z.about.com/d/shoes/1/0/m/6/01_leather_handbags.jpg)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on September 15, 2006, 06:05:20 pm
Personally i think James started from a decent place, sitting on his arse on two obvious holds. IMO the start of bens roof is pretty shit and unobvious. Can see why Rich is a bit miffed cos he obviously could of got the first ascent, not that his CV needs bolstering any more. Don't know fuck all about the grade.  Don't wanna say much more cos i'm good mates with both of them. Bring on the Leadmill!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Houdini on September 15, 2006, 06:18:35 pm
Same again Barman.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on September 15, 2006, 08:53:22 pm
Have been talking with Rich whilst he was kicking shit out of his punchbag and have given this thread a thorough reading. Basically i think the only thing he said which was kinda out of order was this:

I cannot see how James line can be classed as a first ascent.

I questioned him about this comment and he said that he agreed it was written unclearly and was adamant that this wasn't what he thought or what he believes.
As for the rest of it he basically just wanted to clarify that he did the standing start of this problem first and that in his opinion its not 8b.  When you speak to him you realise that its not sour grapes and he's not bitter. He just wants the history of the tor to be recorded properly.The internet is the wrong place for this sort of debate. When i first read a couple of his points i though they were a bit uncalled for perhaps but when you actually speak to the guy and realise exactly the point he is trying to get across. For example the bit about the hold being sharp comes across i think as bit of a dig at Ty, in reality it was just Rich stating that he doesn't think that the pocket is particularly dangerous for a problem of this difficulty. He felt worried that a comment like this could deter other beats from trying the line. And thats why you shouldn't read too much into what people write on the net, cos if i can read it wrong and i know the guy then everyone else is bound too aswell. Hopefully this will be the last rant on this thread. Have it in the US James and tell Si if your getting sick of the mash potato.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: underground on September 15, 2006, 10:31:30 pm
Then maybe Rich should make a post to ratify this assertion Chris...
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Johnny Brown on September 16, 2006, 09:11:17 pm
Quote
pps,
Quote
As for Tyler's comment on the pocket, i really cannot see how this pocket can be of a dangerous nature for a climber of his caliber- the hold is positive, not sharp and fairly deep allowing at least 2 fingers to be used.  I believe there really is nothing to worry about when attempting this problem.


This is not a dig whatsoever. Just merely stating that as a hard problem, this contains good positive holds that would be unlikely to injure a world class climber, especially in comparison to alot of other problems in this grade range

If it's not muthafukkin obvious to y'all, its worth stating that Tyler is 15 and still growing. It doesn't need another 'world class' climber to work out that its probably a good idea for him to look after them, especially as he doesn't appear to be about to give up climbing and take up boxing.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: oldfella on September 19, 2006, 12:48:14 am
you all sound like a bunch of ladies disputing over the best tea cakes. :kiss2:
if you don't like the grade reclimb it and regrade it. if you think it should start further back do it and rename it and grade it. ohhh so simple ;D
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: chappers on September 19, 2006, 09:29:04 am
we all know that the best tea cakes are in the grindleford station cafe.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: SA Chris on September 19, 2006, 09:55:40 am
Betty's Tearoom in Harrogate. Legendary.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Paul B on September 19, 2006, 12:27:04 pm
you've got to be joking, betty's tea room? if you want to pay way too much money for some stale scones probably. Touristy hotspot and all hype.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: SA Chris on September 19, 2006, 12:35:45 pm
Aye was joking. Never set foot inside the place, it was the only one I could think of to argue for  :whistle:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: fashionguru on September 19, 2006, 01:47:10 pm
Just like to take this opertunity to say why all this agro.

We all are different, have differnt views, opinions, grade veiws etc.

What really matters here is that someone has climbed a fantastic line, a line which had been done from standing now has a logical SS.

I hoped by now all would have learnt that you can not put context into these forums and some of us do take them to heart. But please we all do this sport(used lightly) because we love it not for the money and glory (although money does help) so why not get on together and learn from what has happened now and previously.

If your reading this James hope all is going well in the states mate. See ya when you get back
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Fingers of a Martyr on October 14, 2006, 11:07:34 pm
i'm well out of the loop, but just out of interest why has buoux stopped climbing?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on October 15, 2006, 08:26:03 pm
Last i heard he has gone to some poor 3rd world country and started building straw huts with his immense strength.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dobbin on October 16, 2006, 10:43:22 am
I saw a video about this last night, he has gone to dubai to hold up a 320 storey apartment block as they can't get foundation piles strong enough.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 16, 2006, 11:49:37 am
so how many 8b's has James nearly flashed out there?  :jaw:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: irish si on October 16, 2006, 05:13:55 pm
he nearly flashed one, which we both suggested 8a+ for, very long thing.  did it a day or so later.  He also did an other one called clear blue sky in a couple of sessions.  He did an 8a+ called no more greener grasses.  Hopefully he has done something else in the last three days since i left him to go to joes for a few days.  Bit rainy but have done a few classics like resident evil and freak, nothing to exciting.

he got close on freaks on his first session in amazing conditions but failed to get back here in a few more sessions.  he will do if it cools down.  Both had five sessions on freshly squeezed but as yet no success, seems hard. maybe that one is 8b????? he also got close on this thing in eldo called suspensions of disbelief stand up 8a+ but the top was a bit damp.

see ya hueco. 
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: irish si on October 16, 2006, 05:42:22 pm
I might add, that he should have probably done more if conditions had not been so harsh ( and he learned to finish things a bit quicker after he gets close to them)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 16, 2006, 08:23:21 pm
i heard he nearly flashed Secret Splendour n all. Maybe he should enrol in a Neil Gresham topouts Masterclass when he gets home.

see ya hueco. 

sure will big boy
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: james on October 17, 2006, 05:36:06 am
I did flash secret splendor  :thumbsup: , it was nottin but sunshine that I nearly flashed, but sadly, nearly just does not cut it.
One day left, hope to go and try the most amazing undone line I have seen.  Bring on the la t day psych!!!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 17, 2006, 02:28:24 pm
ahh, effort yoot. Beers all round  :beer2:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on October 17, 2006, 02:32:25 pm
ahh, effort yoot. Beers all round  :beer2:

beers? you mean vimto...

good effort james. Have you forgotten about the rumont roof project or does that pale in comparison? Best of luck mate.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 17, 2006, 02:49:30 pm
beers? you mean vimto...

yeah probably very watered down vimto n all
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: monkey boy on October 17, 2006, 06:31:22 pm
Aye big thumbs up man  :thumbsup: and good luck with last day!

Wish this rain would piss off from over England!Haha
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: james on October 17, 2006, 07:05:36 pm
wha'd'y'know, its snowing to fuck in boulder and I dont have a lift to the crag :wall: , typical.  Guess the proj will have to wait, what a shame :'(
bring on the grit...
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dom on October 17, 2006, 08:25:01 pm
I did flash secret splendor  :thumbsup:

fuckin hell V13 flash  :jaw:

has that been done before?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 17, 2006, 08:41:57 pm
has that been done before?

no
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Ru on October 17, 2006, 09:39:20 pm
I did flash secret splendor  :thumbsup:

fuckin hell V13 flash  :jaw:

has that been done before?

Tremendous effort! Was that the 2nd ascent too?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Adam Lincoln on October 17, 2006, 09:58:11 pm
I did flash secret splendor  :thumbsup:

fuckin hell V13 flash  :jaw:

has that been done before?

Tremendous effort! Was that the 2nd ascent too?

Daniel Woods did 2nd ascent, Paul Robinson 3rd, so maybe 4th?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Sloper on October 17, 2006, 10:05:18 pm
Don't forget to check out Ute pass, there's some things straight through the rainy day traverese that may be up you street
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on October 17, 2006, 10:05:31 pm
Is it 8B?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on October 17, 2006, 11:08:12 pm
Blimey. Fantastic effort. Ive only stopped climbing a matter of weeks and ive already become an old has-been.


Disclaimer- This is neither a dig nor criticism. It is said in good faith, not in jealousy or bitterness. I am crap, James is ace. I weak, james is strong. I have a small one, James has a big one etc etc etc.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: irish si on October 18, 2006, 05:08:25 am
yeah fucking hell, I leave him alone for one weekend and look what happens.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Huffy on October 18, 2006, 11:21:07 am
Very nice James.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: chappers on October 18, 2006, 03:06:38 pm
8B flash by Pearson!    10/17
 
Email from Shane Boen: "Hello, thought I would let you know about James Pearson's (UK) impressive tick list from his recent short visit to Colorado. One of his goals was to flash 8B, and he came very close on a number of problems, including Nuthin but sunshine and Dark waters. He finally managed his goal, flashing Secret splendor on Sunday 15th October. He also almost did Freaks of the industry, 8B+, on his first redpoint attempt, but failed to get good enough conditions on return visits.
Bush pilot 8A, 3rd go
No more greener grass, 8A+, 1 session
Dark waters, 8B, almost flashed fell on the 7B finish!
Clear blue sky, 8B
Silverback, 8A, 1 hour
Secret splendor, 8B, flash
 

sound effort.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Nibile on October 18, 2006, 03:28:16 pm
holy fucking shit
fine fine effort.
 :o
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dave on October 18, 2006, 05:19:58 pm
8B flash by Pearson!    10/17
 
Email from Shane Boen: ...

sound effort.

is that deliberatley an anagram of "ben heason" or what?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: grimer on October 18, 2006, 05:46:26 pm
jesus dave, you're just levels above. Amazing
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: unclesomebody on October 19, 2006, 02:17:15 pm
8B flash by Pearson!    10/17
 
Email from Shane Boen: ...

sound effort.

is that deliberatley an anagram of "ben heason" or what?

very good. So now the question is who sent the news in to 8a.nu?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: dobbin on October 19, 2006, 03:34:07 pm
I am 8a.NU!  :o
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: andy_e on October 19, 2006, 04:08:20 pm
Effort James, he's gonna tear down yorkshire when he comes up here...
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: irish si on October 19, 2006, 04:18:02 pm
why the fuck would he go to yorkshire, you want to see where he has just been.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: andy_e on October 19, 2006, 04:23:38 pm
I heard that he was coming up to yorkshire when he got back, that's all...
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 19, 2006, 04:45:45 pm
ha ha. I hope he does go, High Fidelity flash?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: andy_e on October 19, 2006, 04:48:01 pm
That would be fucking awesome  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: squeek on October 19, 2006, 05:21:27 pm
why the fk would he go to yorkshire, you want to see where he has just been.

Yeah, now he's been there, when he wants to go climbing he'll just pop on his magic rug, do three twirls, click his heels together, twist the bedknob and he magically whisked back there to climb for a few hour session before popping back for tea.

Or maybe he'll have to travel by more traditional methods and go somewhere you can drive to that has good problems, like for example, Yorkshire.  Or have I missed something and he is emmigrating?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Buoux 8C on October 20, 2006, 09:46:08 am
ha ha. I hope he does go, High Fidelity flash?

On James current form he should do High fidelity, then head over to Malcs start for a flash at that. Then theres the big link- definetly flashable. Im in the process of changing my 'role of honour' which lists,in a statistical order, the most impressive climbers i have ever seen. Sorry Dai and Malc, make way down the ladder, a new start has been born.

8B flash, that makes him the most accomplished boulderer ever! and the fact he's never done an 8B+ makes it even more impressive.

Some words from the big gun, he's as modest as ever, and dosent mention a downgrade, which is great;

James Pearsons is in the USA, where he has flashed Tyler Landman's Secret Splendor! Ty thought 8b when he established this problem, and the grade was confirmed by Daniel Woods (no stranger to hard climbing), James writes :

so... after many days of no climbing and photo related epics, i finaly had a decent weekend. went to evans yesterday and did silverback and made good progress on the worm proj. went to the park today and finally conditions were ok. got decent photos and then went over to try nottin. decided to try ty's problem secret splendor to warm my fingers up. The holds felt ok, and so got chalked up,9 planed my sequence and got super psyched. i was almost shaking with nerves, but i set off, tried very hard and found myself at the top. feeling confident, i rested in prep for an attempt of nottin. i flashed through the low hard section, falling on the high crux. then fell off twice on the last tricky move to the jug due to tired muscles and sore skin. so close to being my best day ever...
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Johnny Brown on October 20, 2006, 10:15:46 am
Makes you wonder what his best day ever was?

I can't see High Fidelity getting flashed for a few years yet. Cypher might be a better bet, though he's been on it before so it might have to be a 'day flash'
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Scouse D on October 20, 2006, 10:46:03 am
You mean a 'Roberts' Flash'?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 20, 2006, 11:06:14 am
From 8a.nu

Quote
Both Paul Robinson and Matt Wilder now say Secret splendour is not 8B, but rather 8A+. Says Robinson: " I dont think it is 8B. Most people are considering soft 8A+ now. New beta has been found, def not 8B."
Jamie Emerson reports: "Matt Wilder has done Secret Splendour 3rd go and said it is bottom end V12 (8A+). Wilder tried to flash the four move problem, and fell on the third move. He then did the upper moves first go (which he humbly counted as an attempt) and then did the problem second try from the start, saying that it was an entry level V12. Still an impressive flash from James Pearson, but not 8B."
It seems we'll have to wait some more for the first 8B flash, but like Emerson said, it's still a very impressive flash!

Typical innit, Paul Robinson takes the grade for every single problem that he does in the US apart from the one that gets flashed by a brit.

Cyril Sneer i say

(http://www.toontalents.com/The_Raccoons-Cyril_Sneer_smirking.jpg)
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: RASTATA on October 20, 2006, 11:14:24 am
If is bottom end 8a+ why then is still on his scorecard as 8b?

http://www.8a.nu/site2/index.php?country=USA

 :wank:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: squeek on October 20, 2006, 11:50:47 am
Scorecard here (http://www.8a.nu/cgi-bin/scorecard/show.cgi?view=2603&page=2) I hope.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: StuM on October 20, 2006, 12:26:32 pm
Awesome effort!!

didn't fred nicole flash an 8b a few years ago though?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: chris on October 20, 2006, 12:45:20 pm
yeah, im pretty sure i read that somewhere; on a par with fred nicole. respect :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 20, 2006, 01:18:31 pm
Fred flashed Massive Attack in Magic. Gets 8a/+ now dunnit. 8a+ flash is still pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: chris on October 20, 2006, 01:48:10 pm
yeah, thats the one. didn't huff flash that too during his legendary 2005 trip?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 20, 2006, 03:36:31 pm
yeah, thats the one. didn't huff flash that too during his legendary 2005 trip?

No but he did do it. He did however flash nothing changes. Come back Huffmeister, its not the same without you! :bow:
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Dave Westlake on October 21, 2006, 02:42:15 am
 

Thats got to be one of the most impressive things ever in bouldering history.

Good effort

totally  :o
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Doylo on October 25, 2006, 06:06:44 pm
James came to the cave today, after warming up flashing Rockatrocity he did Trigger Cut in a couple of goes and topped it off with Halfway House 8a+. Strong lad!
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Nibile on October 25, 2006, 06:08:24 pm
 ;D

boomerang effect?
Title: Re: Keen Roof - 8B
Post by: Bonjoy on October 26, 2006, 08:39:46 am
Gadzooks! The beast is loose.
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