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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: Offwidth on May 18, 2019, 09:17:54 am

Title: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: Offwidth on May 18, 2019, 09:17:54 am
June 1st will be a vary sad day for climbing related discussion on the internet.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3198199/SuperTopo-Forum-to-shut-down-June-1-2019

Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: jwi on May 18, 2019, 10:17:21 am
There are climbing related discussions on that forum as well? I didn't know!
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: Offwidth on May 18, 2019, 10:49:00 am
A recent example

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/3195076/RIP-Edwin-Drummond
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: geoffg on May 18, 2019, 10:50:04 am
I will sorely miss the supertopo forum. A major loss in my book. One of the best out there.
A fantastic source of information, opinions and memories.
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: habrich on June 13, 2019, 03:51:40 pm
The most recent Runout podcast has an interesting interview with Chris Macnamara, the owner of Supertopo, on the reasons why he had to close the forum and the evolution of social media generally. Worth a listen (especially if you own a web forum  :wave: Shark )

https://runoutpodcast.com/index.php/2019/06/05/runout-24-so-long-supertaco/
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: jwi on June 13, 2019, 04:30:29 pm
Interesting even if you don't have a public forum.

Also, from the always interesting, always abominable Neal Stephenson
(https://i.imgur.com/KYul3wu.png)

(Excerpt from Fall; or, Dodge in Hell)
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: Paul B on June 25, 2019, 11:45:26 am
The most recent Runout podcast has an interesting interview with Chris Macnamara, the owner of Supertopo, on the reasons why he had to close the forum and the evolution of social media generally. Worth a listen (especially if you own a web forum  :wave: Shark )

https://runoutpodcast.com/index.php/2019/06/05/runout-24-so-long-supertaco/

So:
A) they don't make any money
B) if you allow users to upload content (images) you may be subject to copyright lawsuits
C) people won't police themselves

I didn't know that Mountain Project was REI owned.
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 25, 2019, 12:46:33 pm
So:
A) they don't make any money
B) if you allow users to upload content (images) you may be subject to copyright lawsuits
C) people won't police themselves

I didn't know that Mountain Project was REI owned.

I listened to it last night and that was my take away messages too.

I did wonder how hard they tried to make money to make the evident hassles worthwhile and whether they protected themselves with a limited liability company (hat tip to habrich who was well ahead of the curve).

I wonder whether the potential copyright risks are the reasons that UKC don't offer image and video upload like we do or whether it is just the on issue of cost of extra data storage.  :-\

Sounds like the forum discussions got out of control and UKB is evidence that a forum can police itself with negligible intervention by moderators.  ;D   
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: tomtom on June 25, 2019, 01:52:58 pm
Isnít the image/video hosting aspect dealt with as these have to be via a third party source then embedded in Ukb?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 25, 2019, 06:04:35 pm
Isnít the image/video hosting aspect dealt with as these have to be via a third party source then embedded in Ukb?

I'm unsure and US law may differ on this, I'd certainly like to know but I suspect it falls into the murky area of to what extent, if any, a forum owner is a publisher or not and whether posters are wholly or partially responsible for the content they publish. I'd certainly remove images when requested on the grounds it breached copyright. Certainly the third party would be liable for copyright infringement but whether a forum owner (in UKB's case that's Outdoor Forums Limited) or the user is also legally liable for any such infringement I've no idea. To date I've only thought about it in terms of defamation situations.     
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: habrich on June 25, 2019, 06:23:56 pm
I did wonder how hard they tried to make money to make the evident hassles worthwhile and whether they protected themselves with a limited liability company (hat tip to habrich who was well ahead of the curve).

On the subject of thinking ahead, I am curious as to whether anyone still thinks UKB should have retained its DFBWGC thread?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: remus on June 25, 2019, 07:58:23 pm
Isnít the image/video hosting aspect dealt with as these have to be via a third party source then embedded in Ukb?

I'm unsure and US law may differ on this, I'd certainly like to know but I suspect it falls into the murky area of to what extent, if any, a forum owner is a publisher or not and whether posters are wholly or partially responsible for the content they publish. I'd certainly remove images when requested on the grounds it breached copyright. Certainly the third party would be liable for copyright infringement but whether a forum owner (in UKB's case that's Outdoor Forums Limited) or the user is also legally liable for any such infringement I've no idea. To date I've only thought about it in terms of defamation situations.   

Im not a lawyer but...you are liable even if you aren't directly hosting the copyrighted content yourself. For example, platforms like thepiratebay.org don't actually host any copyrighted content, they're essentially just big collections of links to content. They've lost a few court cases in the UK and as such UK ISPs are obliged to block access.

Having said that I believe the 'intent' matters. The Pirate Bay was designed for helping to illegally distribute copyrighted content, whereas something like google search will come up with links to plenty of pirated content if you search for the right things, but they have a process for reporting and removing the content (i.e. reasonable steps to avoid piracy) and it's obviously hugely useful for finding things other than pirated content.

I think the US is pretty similar.
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 26, 2019, 12:22:42 pm
Thanks for insights Remus
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 26, 2019, 12:25:53 pm
I am curious as to whether anyone still thinks UKB should have retained its DFBWGC thread?

Me too..

Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: andy popp on June 26, 2019, 12:40:38 pm
I am curious as to whether anyone still thinks UKB should have retained its DFBWGC thread?

Me too..

Really?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 26, 2019, 12:53:51 pm
"Really" as in am I really curious (no) or "really" as in it's not acceptable to make a pun?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: Will Hunt on June 26, 2019, 12:55:02 pm
I would have thought it fairly plain that DFBWGC is not really missed by anyone (oh, I see you were joking).

It was cited as a reason for the board not having many female posters. DFBWGC has been gone for a while now and still very little female presence here. Is it just because the place is so overwhelmingly blokey that no ladies are bothered about joining?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: andy popp on June 26, 2019, 12:56:52 pm
The first Shark, but I also missed the pun. I can't believe anyone really thinks its worth reopening this question. Maybe Habrich was just stirring?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 26, 2019, 12:59:21 pm
The first Shark, but I also missed the pun.

Phew! I thought you were going to give me a grilling
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: AndyR on June 26, 2019, 11:57:41 pm
The first Shark, but I also missed the pun.

Phew! I thought you were going to give me a grilling
Good riddance. Iím so much happier looking at pictures of  jaded old men climbing rocks. Way better.
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: habrich on June 27, 2019, 01:59:59 am
The first Shark, but I also missed the pun. I can't believe anyone really thinks its worth reopening this question. Maybe Habrich was just stirring?

No, I am not stirring. I find the way in which consensus attitudes change over time to be genuinely interesting. It seemed obvious to me at the time that the thread(s) were anachronistic and becoming increasingly so. Yet it was quite controversial and tiresome to make the change to remove them. I am interested to know whether the people who were keen to retain the thread(s) then, and pushed back against the change, still think it was a mistake or whether they now acknowledge that the change was necessary?
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: andy popp on June 27, 2019, 01:19:55 pm
The first Shark, but I also missed the pun. I can't believe anyone really thinks its worth reopening this question. Maybe Habrich was just stirring?

No, I am not stirring. I find the way in which consensus attitudes change over time to be genuinely interesting. It seemed obvious to me at the time that the thread(s) were anachronistic and becoming increasingly so. Yet it was quite controversial and tiresome to make the change to remove them. I am interested to know whether the people who were keen to retain the thread(s) then, and pushed back against the change, still think it was a mistake or whether they now acknowledge that the change was necessary?

Thanks, that makes much more sense (and apologies for the slight jibe)
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: shark on June 27, 2019, 02:24:51 pm
IIRC you were kindly going to stand in for me to represent UKB at a social media debate at the women's climbing symposium which almost certainly would have homed in on DFBWGC. The debate was cancelled. 

Edit - found the thread: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,18760.msg333711.html#msg333711
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: andy popp on June 27, 2019, 02:38:46 pm
IIRC you were kindly going to stand in for me to represent UKB at a social media debate at the women's climbing symposium which almost certainly would have homed in on DFBWGC. The debate was cancelled. 

Edit - found the thread: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,18760.msg333711.html#msg333711

I do remember.
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: r-man on June 27, 2019, 03:13:24 pm
Isnít the image/video hosting aspect dealt with as these have to be via a third party source then embedded in Ukb?

I'm unsure and US law may differ on this, I'd certainly like to know but I suspect it falls into the murky area of to what extent, if any, a forum owner is a publisher or not and whether posters are wholly or partially responsible for the content they publish. I'd certainly remove images when requested on the grounds it breached copyright. Certainly the third party would be liable for copyright infringement but whether a forum owner (in UKB's case that's Outdoor Forums Limited) or the user is also legally liable for any such infringement I've no idea. To date I've only thought about it in terms of defamation situations.   

Look up Getty Images Extortion.

I was stung by this for embedding an image of planetary orbits on a blog page, just as a bit of filler to illustrate my ramblings. I got an email demanding payment of £640 for copyright infringement, which would be reduced to £240 if I paid promptly, and escalated to legal proceedings if I didn't pay. After researching various options (ignore, contest or settle), I negotiated down to nearer £100, which seemed a better option than becoming entrenched in stressful legal wranglings.

From what I understand, various companies have computers trawling the internet for copyrighted images. Offering to take down the offending image doesn't help - the demand for payment is based on historical use, and these companies make their money from this activity.

I don't know whether they would target forums. I suspect I was targeted because I looked like a small business (blog attached to guidebook website).
Title: Re: Supertopo forum bites the dust
Post by: Davo on June 27, 2019, 07:06:11 pm
Quite a few years ago. I had a similar issue with Getty Images. It was my own fault we were setting up a website for our business and used some images off google. At the time I had no idea about copyright etc

Anyway I got one of those emails and like yourself did a bit of research. Getty images clearly send out thousands of these emails to small businesses and blog owners.

In the end I ignored them with the proviso that if contacted again I would ask for proof of ownership of copyright. After two emails I never heard from them again.

Have never quite worked out whether it was a scam or if they send so many out that it isnít worth fighting or following up because so many people pay?

Dave