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the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Fultonius on March 09, 2017, 09:29:24 pm

Title: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Fultonius on March 09, 2017, 09:29:24 pm
Ok folks, I'm normally quite clued and and happy with my diet. I recover well from climbing sessions and don't struggle too much with weight/hunger issues.

However, when I'm working offshore (which I'm doing again right now), to get a gym session in, I either have to get up early  :yawn: , or go after dinner.

Re: the second option, after dinner. I try to have a sensible dinner, mix of protein, carbs and fat. Food basically  :lol: . Then I wait an hour to 1.5 hours before hitting the gym. Sometimes it''l be cardio, but more often weights & core stuff.

To my question: if you have eaten a reasonable amount of protein during the day, does it make much difference to have more after the session? Or is a general snack (jam sandwich is about all I can get from the galley) good enough? Also, how much do you need to eat? 200kcal? 400? I've noticed if I eat to little I lie awake hungry!

Or should I stock pile a couple of boiled eggs at breakfast?
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Nibile on March 09, 2017, 10:56:30 pm
I think that if you search for "peri workout nutrition" on T-Nation you'll get plenty of info.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: nai on March 10, 2017, 07:30:15 am
Saw a thing the other day (which I can't find again at the moment) that outlined elite athletes protein intake. It was something like 57% breakfast, 35% lunch and 8% dinner.  So they get kinda their recovery in early.  But I imagine they mostly train mornings and certainly not in the evening so this may be of no help.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Fultonius on March 10, 2017, 09:12:34 am
I think that if you search for "peri workout nutrition" on T-Nation you'll get plenty of info.

Gaddamit...what you're basically saying is I need to drink protein shakes. Grrr.....  :chair:  not possible this trip, but maybe making dinner smaller and closer to the session and having a similar snack after might be the best plan. How well backed up is T-nation with non-sports-supplement-funded science? They're not fans of referencing.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Fultonius on March 10, 2017, 09:37:19 am
Hmmm....more reading required: still not sure how fact based anoy of this is, but Derek Woodske seems to think there's a big difference between hypertrophy training (which I don't want) and pure strength based (which I do).

Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Nibile on March 10, 2017, 11:50:14 am
There's an interesting article titled Post Workout Nutrition Is Dead. Have a read!
Sorry can't post right now.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Fultonius on March 10, 2017, 12:10:37 pm
I did - that was the first one I read, but it seemed heavily focused on hypertophy. I guess I need to read up on what olympic lifters do (i.e. those who want to build strength without gaining weight).
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Nibile on March 10, 2017, 12:21:28 pm
Gaining muscle is harded than we think. I would not stress over it.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: nai on March 10, 2017, 12:25:02 pm

https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/post-workout-nutrition-is-dead
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Three Nine on March 10, 2017, 12:36:54 pm
Seriously do not stress about this sort of thing. Just get enough in a day and you're fine. You're a climber not a bodybuilder.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Fultonius on March 10, 2017, 12:46:26 pm
Oh FFS!  I'm not actually stressing about it, just trying to solve 2 actual problems:

1. Cardio within 2 hours of a big meal is horrid - I always end up getting a stitch and feeling rank.

2. If I don't eat something after 1.5 hours in the gym (cardio or weights) in the evening I lie awake hungry.

I was mainly wondering if I can adjust my eating to help this (given the constraint of working offshore and fixed meal times). I have no access to "protein shakes" and would rather not get into that. I'm not that focused on getting stronger - just want to make use of my time while offshore.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Oldmanmatt on March 10, 2017, 12:53:00 pm
For a more evidence based approach:

http://www.sportsnutritionworkshop.com/files/9.spnt.PDF

http://jap.physiology.org/content/94/2/651.full.pdf+html

http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/676/art%253A10.1186%252F1475-2891-12-86.pdf?originUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fnutritionj.biomedcentral.com%2Farticle%2F10.1186%2F1475-2891-12-86&token2=exp=1489150656~acl=%2Fstatic%2Fpdf%2F676%2Fart%25253A10.1186%25252F1475-2891-12-86.pdf*~hmac=e5aadd7d8b545f5de7a87cffdb54cdbec29d301527d52970dc18a5cd909dab65
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Murph on March 10, 2017, 12:55:11 pm
for my money, examine.com is the best resource for finding study-based diet and nutrition advice. They are still trying to sell you supplements though at the end of the day so my sceptic sense does tingle a little. But it's useful that they at least quote sources so you can take your own view as to whether the experiment in question seems sensible.

Here's one:  more protein means more muscle synthesis after full body resistance training (https://examine.com/nutrition/second-look-at-protein-quantity-after-exercise/). See also the FAQ lower down the page which links to this literature review of nutrient timing (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23360586/) which I've not read but might be a good place to start if you want to put some SCIENCE into your post workout sandwich choice.

There's a ton of material out there of course but it can quite often be hard to relate what the implications are for us lot as opposed to the subjects of a particular study - overweight middle age men, twenty something resistance trainers, cyclists, whatever. Also whether the goals are fat loss or strength, performance or muscle gains.

Further thought, but you can have the best study in the world that proves 40g protein shake 1/2hr after a compound barbell routine is better than a jam sandwich, but what does this mean to you if your normal diet is eggs, steak and broccoli vs white bread and cereal? and your routine is a campus session or two hours on the pinkles?
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: Nibile on March 10, 2017, 01:07:26 pm
Gaining muscle is harded than we think. I would not stress over it.
Title: Re: Recovery after session, eating, protein etc.
Post by: TobyD on March 15, 2017, 09:03:47 am

2. If I don't eat something after 1.5 hours in the gym (cardio or weights) in the evening I lie awake hungry.

I was mainly wondering if I can adjust my eating to help this (given the constraint of working offshore and fixed meal times). I have no access to "protein shakes" and would rather not get into that. I'm not that focused on getting stronger - just want to make use of my time while offshore.

Cottage cheese on toast or oatcakes or similar? Real food, good mix of caesin and slow burn complex carbohydrates. I know it's hardly gourmet but could fit the bill?