UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: Bonjoy on May 08, 2008, 02:30:14 pm
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Re-equipping 08
Mostly thanks to Jon Clarke. :great:
Upper Circle - WCJ
Pragma
Eat The Rich
The Inch Test
Cheedale
Entrée
High Tor
High Torquing
Wil E. Coyote
Pump Out The Squealies
Squeezing Out Sparks
Limelight
Turkey Dip Rocks
Step On It
The Land That Time Forgot
Animal Antics
Long Tor Quarry
Future Primitive
Rubicon
Zeke The Freak
WCJ Cornice
Albattrocitty – Recently done by Neil Bentley. Not using PBF kit, but thought I’d mention the fact it’s been done in case people wanted to get on it. Neil – I can provide you with some replacement bolts from the PBF stock for the ones you used and more bolts if you are thinking of doing other routes.
Jon C also mention he intends to do lots more down Cheedale soon, especially at Two Tier.
Not bolt related, but as an outcome of a meeting I had with Henry Folkhard and a guy from the Derbyshire Wildlife Trust last year, a number of Sycamores have been removed at the Embankment down Cheedale. This should hopefully mean that the good routes on the right end of the crag (Barefoot In A Pool Of Sharks, Fishing Without A Licence etc) should actually come into condition this year. There was also talk of removing some Sycamores from below The Nook, a great little crag in desperate need of sorting out (tree clearance and rebolting).
General points
What gets rebolted is largely a function of who is bolting and what they are interested in. Re-bolting is hard, time consuming work and it is therefore not surprising that when people take time and effort to do it they will re-bolt the things they or their friends want to climb. It is conceivable that people might criticise the emphasis of the re-bolting as elitist. All I can say is, if you have routes you want re-bolted, learn to place bolts (contact the BMC and badger them to do a workshop), ask me for the kit and do some bolting. So far the PBF has not done a great deal because we don’t have people with the time, skills and inclination to get bolting. So much so that I have been loath to make any further pleas for donations.
What work we have done has been mostly on relatively hard (upper 7 and 8 ) routes. This is for several reasons:
• Resources, both time and money are very limited.
• The bulk of the PBF funds have come from paypal donations, via email. To a large extend I therefore know who has donated what. A large proportion have been donations from people I have met at one time or another and who are or have been dedicated sport climbers operating in the (relatively) harder grades. I think it only fair that their interests/priorities are served first.
• Gary Gibson does a great job re-equiping the peaks easier routes. In all fairness, unless people come to us with a desire to get involved and use PBF funds on easier routes, if you want to see your money go to re-equiping lower grade routes you may be better off donating to Gary’s fund. This isn't a deliberate policy, it's simply a consequence of who has offered assistance bolting. I'm keen to see routes of all grades re-bolted.
• To a large extent the peak’s best sport routes (using stars in guides as a gauge) are either already fairly recently equipped or in the harder grades. This is partly because over the years Gary and others have put lot’s of work in at crags like Horseshoe, the Embankment, Harpur Hill etc. It is also related to the point below. There is an argument for re-quipping good quality routes before lower quality routes, even if the higher quality route will be less popular due to factors such as location and grade.
• Because many of the peak’s hard steep crags are also it’s dirtiest and wettest, the gear rots faster and the routes are more hassle to re-equip. I would caution anyone to be VERY careful which bolts they trust at the Cheedale Cornice!
Please, if you have time and you know how to bolt, get in touch. The crags are drying off at the moment, now is the time to get involved.
If you don’t know how to bolt but you want to get involved, hassle the BMC for a workshop. Start off by downloading the excellent info on the BMC website here: http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Feature.aspx?id=2411
On a personal note I sometimes feel like an idiot for starting this bolt fund and then not really delivering the good as far as bolts in crags go (although we have raised a reasonable quantity, £1,500 approx, plus successfully bidding for a number of bolts from the BMC for re-equipment of the Cornices). I especially feel bad about accepting the donation of an expensive drill from Neil Foster, which has yet to see much action. I’d like to have the time to set an example by doing more bolting myself. On the other hand I have donated at least as much time as anyone else and a fair bit of money. Really I started this thing as a result of lots of people saying it needed doing. Me and Paul have put in the effort to start this fund, it would now be nice if a few more people threw their hats in the ring. I wish I had the time to do more, but the fact is I don’t, so unless I get some more offers of help the fund is not going to get used properly.
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Re-equipping 08
Cool thanks for the update Bonjoy. Thats quite a few routes that have been done this year sofar then. Well done all involved.
Cheers
Tim
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I'm often free during the week so would be keen for some bolting. Would it be possible to start by accompanying someone bolting before we are let loose on our own. I've had a bit of experience with bolting but not a huge amount.
On another note thanks very much to all the people who have given up their time to get this started and equip the routes :great:
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Cheers Dylan. I might be out one evening next week going through how to bolt stuff with Paul. I'll let you know if it goes ahead, you're welcome along
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ok so i'm a newbie on this forum and just wanted to add my thanks to the guys doing the rebolting!! great job!!!
i would also like to know what the line of bolts left of the sissy are?...is that a retro on the angler or something new?
Thanks again for the effort!!!!
F/M
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Its something new, although I have not tried it myself.
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That route to the left of sissy is a new project of zippys. Dirty little bouldery thing.
The sissy also has new bolts and a lower off (as for zeak), doing away with the tat.
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The original post had some mistakes and ommisions, I have editted.
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Jon, is it plausible to teach bolting in an evening (to someone with a base level of practical skills approaching zero)? If so, can you let me know when you're off out with Paul, would also be keen to lend a hand.
I'd also like to thank all involved already x
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thanks for the info on that route.
does this mean its a 'closed' project as in i shouldnt try or has Zippy done it and its cool to get on?....apologies if the answer is obvious!
F/M
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I'll let you know Reeve
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does this mean its a 'closed' project as in i shouldnt try or has Zippy done it and its cool to get on?....apologies if the answer is obvious!
As far as I am aware, Zippy has not yet done it as it is a project.
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As far as I am aware, Zippy has not yet done it as it is a project.
This is some C & P from a late 80's article.
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Yes some things in the Peak just never change ::)
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Great job on Zeke, (I believe it was Cristian?), Thanks. A good classic route brought up to date, proper 'ard innit.
This guy was asking about 'Too old to be Bold', which has in fact become very bold indeed. I wondered if there were any plans to sort the bolts out? Though it could easily be dismissed, I think it serves as a good introduction to the short bouldery routes of the area, being a bit easier and less weirdly reachy than Wild in Me.
I mention it only as I thought it may have been overlooked, though obviously some things have to be prioritized, others dismissed, Jons post covered these issues perfectly.
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Not a bad idea. TOTBB was my first 7c and although it's no super classic it is a good intro to hard Rubicon stuff. Could be a good one for Fi to get on. Might bolt that one myself when I get a chance
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whereabouts is it at boobicon?
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Just right of Dangerous Brothers
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Pennyworth:
May i suggest that Someone organises a bolting workshop one evening for anyone to turn up. This could be a great way of getting many peoples up to speed quickly and whoever turns up can make a donation too?
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TOTBB was my first 7c
Me too. October 1993.
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As a student, I have most of the summer off to climb, and as such would be happy to donate a few days to rebolting stuff if someone could teach me how to bolt. Although I've done very little peak sport climbing (I've only just found the psyche), I'd quite like to put something back into climbing.
Oli
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Cool. The drill batteries are at the fixers at the mo, but once they are back we'll get some sort of worshop thing together
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Word, if anyong was reading this thinking of getting on Too Old To Be Bold i can recommend it as a nice route, now with good bolts, although it still has a 20ft runout up piss easy ground at the top. all the shit it got in the last BMC and rockfax guides about being way too pollished is undeserved.
Secondly, would dangerous brothers be worth a rebolt? the bolts themselves must be getting on now, and the "belay" at the break consisting of two shonky looking pegs tied together with some old tat looks like an abortion and would benefit with sorting out.
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word, at the upper circle we looked (visually) at Pragma, cun't see any grips on the lower bit - has anyone got any noise on this one? specifically what the fuck you do? its give a grade easier than ETR but looks tons harder.
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I think the Chimping Almond Habanero has done Pragma, he might remember something.
Request for bolting DB is noted.
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More re-equipping from Jon C at Lorry Park -
- The Squealer
- Big Spider Small Bath
- Good Time Emporium
- Shore Leave
- Hell's Angels
A lot of this stuff getting re-equipped round Matlock is as good or better than more popular stuff further north in the Peak. They deserve more attention. Taking into account the super short crag approach, you can get from sheffield to the bottom of the crag quicker here than going to say WCJ Cornice or Chee dale!
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word, at the upper circle we looked (visually) at Pragma, cun't see any grips on the lower bit - has anyone got any noise on this one? specifically what the fuck you do? its give a grade easier than ETR but looks tons harder.
I haven't done it but when i re-bolted this i thought it looked hard as well, but there are holds on it. I remember some small crimpy layaways!? ETR is more like 7b+/c i reckon.
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I suspect the fact the new loweroff is below the final roof has a bearing on the grade - that top roof doesn't look any easier than the climbing below, and the route by all accounts does/did originally take the top roof to a higher loweroff (though from standing at the bottom of the crag i've never managed to see it.) whcih i coudl well believe is ~7c+ or within the usual margin for error.
will give pragma a look next time maybe, looks like maybe it eases after the start at least.
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ETR should finish over the top roof. Its definitely harder doing this but I can't remember by how much.
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Yeah i know it used to finish over the top roof, but you should be really careful because there is a lot of loose rock. When i was re-bolting i stood on the roof and a block gave way from underneath me! Shit me up ;D
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Apparently Moony has given permission for Hot Fun Closing to be re-equipped with all bolts rather than the current one bolt, one stuck wire and one peg. Just posting it here now so that if anyone has any opinions/objections they can express them now rather than after the fact. I would have thought that the first bolt will be left in, the wire will be replaced with a bolt roughly around the same height and the peg will be replaced with a bolt at a clippable height above the break.
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my opinion - we probably don't need the FA's permission, and its well overdue a bolting. i'd certainly be psyched to try the route.
On another topic, has anyone got any noise on The Vision at WCJ? specifically is it any good, and does anyone know what the state of the gear (or lack thereof) is? I've always fancied it from seeing a photo in that old Paul Nunn guide, so may head down there for a walk to check it out, though if its a complete pile of shit someone please stop me.
P.S. had a go on Pragma at upper circle. seems extremely poor in comparison to the other stuff there. my advice is don't bother.
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The Vision?
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it's an old Fawcett E6. there's a pic of nigel smart on it in the wye valley guide (i think).
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Thats wye I won't have seen it then 8)
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I'm sure Andy Popp has posted on UKB about how good it is in the past.
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What, life? Yeah its great in the past.
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I wouldn't know, I'm based in the distant future
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if anyone's off to try too old... in next few days take a spanner to tighten second bolt. should be fine but could do with a turn. i'll do it when i'm back there next if not.
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Just back from bolting at Rubicon with Paul B. Have re-equipped Dangerous Brothers with 12mm resins bolts, including a proper lower-off rather than the ropey two peg and tat affair of old. Tried (very hard)but couldn't get the old allen-key bolts out with an allen key. Will try again next time i'm there, maybe with a bar and allen-key, a sharpened cold chisel or even drill them out.
Also bolted Hot Fun Closing. Replaced wire with bolt and instead of the peg (which was in a pretty bad state) a bolt above the break. Was going to leave the old bolt in but it turned out to be loose and dangerous so hammered it out and filled in the hole. I have not replaced this, but can stick an extra bolt in another time if people want it. I figured that most folk would have the first bolt pre-clipped and that the new first bolt (at same level as old wire) is not much higher and a very easy clip, so if you are going to stick clip you may as well stick that one. Anyone bouldering it out would have struggled to clip the old first bolt and might as well do one/two more moves to the flake and clip from there. I'm not sure, what do people think, should I put in the low first bolt????
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Nice work dudes. No more packing the friends in the sack when thinking about trying this one. Look forward to road testing the new bolts soon! Re the placement I think that's bang on. Sticking the first new one is the way to go. Incidentally, the old Peak Bouldering guide shows Kudos finishing at the break in the days before bouldering pads (before traversing off to escape) so I reckon ppl could handle climbing up there now with pads if you don't have a stick with you. can't wait to try!
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good arrows there lads.
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Just thought i'd add that we are trying to keep track of things that have been done here:
http://thepeakboltfund.blogspot.com/ (http://thepeakboltfund.blogspot.com/)
and that Kristian did a full assessment of the fixed gear at Rubicon, WCJ and Cheedale Cornice which has also been posted up on the blog for your perusal.
:thumbsup:
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I'm sure Andy Popp has posted on UKB about how good it is in the past.
The Vision is an old aid route freed by Ron in 82 on the first buttress of the left bank of WCJ. It isn't some great lost classic but is a good route that people would enjoy if it were rebolted, typical Peak bouldery thing with a long pull from a poorish hold to a mono; it was reckoned about 7c+. It was protected by three old aid bolts when I did it in the mid 90s.
As an historian I can confirm life in the past is good.
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mono
and our survey said..........EEEH-EERRRR.
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That's a tricky one. I know when I repeated Kudos and Hot Fun I clipped the bolt on the lead but that was because it was the done thing at the time. I guess it didn't even occur to us to stick clip the first bolt, probably didn't even have a stick! I think the most important thing is to place the bolts in appropriate locations that will be long lasting without detracting too much from the nature of the particular route. Hot Fun is very safe at the bottom and a bit run out ( though not very ) at the top, so I think the bolts you've placed are in keeping with that - we should be grateful that you have put in the effort to sort out the peg which sounds like it would have come out at some point, in addition the wire was always a bit of an eyesore. Nice one boys.
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mono
and our survey said..........EEEH-EERRRR.
Don't panic, its a nice comfy mono.
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Was back at Rubicon last night. Managed to get the allen-key bolts out of DB (with a make-shift extension bar). Had a play on HFC and figured a place where you could clip a bolt from on the lower bit so will re-instate the first bolt when I get a chance.
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Most people will boulder out the Kudos bit with a pad and that would more than suffice for getting to the new first bolt but I suppose to make it a proper sport route with no paddage necessary then a bolt you could clip off the Kudos flake would be nice. Looked like a very good job well done lads. As mentioned, that wire and peg looked shit from an aesthetic (not to mention protection) point of view and the route looks well inviting now. Almost makes me want to buy a new harness.........
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That was part of my original reasoning, but having got on it the moves above the normal kudos finish felt rather high and hard, like I wanted a bolt in place. There was a bolt there originally and it would make for a more balanced appealing sport route with it in. With the low bolt in place it makes the route fairly feasible as a ground-up flash/onsight without any stick clipping and onsightable 8as are a rare thing in the UK.
All additional opinions welcome.
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With the low bolt in place it makes the route fairly feasible as a ground-up flash/onsight
quick show of hands everyone who did kudos (easy or hard) first go? anybody, no?
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Neil Carson flashed it in the 90's but I guess if you have done the boulder problem before its not a flash if you make it to the top.
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Yeah but everyone who did Kudos originally had to do the font 7c start and that would have been a very hard flash. I think with the easier start it's definitely flashable and so Bonjoy is correct in bolting it accordingly.
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Yeah but everyone who did Kudos originally had to do the font 7c start and that would have been a very hard flash. I think with the easier start it's definitely flashable and so Bonjoy is correct in bolting it accordingly.
Just wondered, was it possible for people to do the Easy Way back in the day when doing the route or did this not exist? When was Easy way using the RH sidepull first done? Is the route much of an easier 8a using this method?
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Absolutely, you're talking about swapping a 7c start on a polished foothold with a 7a+ start on positive footholds, at the time it was about the hardest move at Rubicon and didn't get a lot of quick repeats. Also don't forget the new ledge of hand holds which has appeared. I can't remember for sure but I think it might have been Mr Sharples who came up with the easy way.
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I think Ryan Pasquill has also flashed it
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Absolutely, you're talking about swapping a 7c start on a polished foothold with a 7a+ start on positive footholds, at the time it was about the hardest move at Rubicon and didn't get a lot of quick repeats. Also don't forget the new ledge of hand holds which has appeared. I can't remember for sure but I think it might have been Mr Sharples who came up with the easy way.
Interesting. Yes its got to be a fair bit easier with the 7a+ way. I ain't properly tried the 7c way but it looks pretty horrendous! I suppose the polish on that left foothold on the rockover method might have got worse since the 80's to compensate a bit for doing the route the easy way. Maybe the easy way has got even easier with the appearance of the big footledge?
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OK lets take the number of people who've flashed this boulder problem, then factor into that the percentage who will be attempting to flash the boulder problem with the intention of carrying on up the route (a much smaller fraction), then factor in percentage of those who will be up to flashing bouldery 8a routes but haven't brought with them either a bouldering mat or clipstick, or can't borrow one temporarily from someone else at the crag, and my guess is that now we're looking at a very very small number of people. so on the whole i'd not be worrying about the first bolt.
ted, its my impression that the "easy" (actually harder) way is only possible with the jug ledge in place - or maybe it woudl be possible but would be deffo much harder than any other beta. and also bear in mind that the current state of the "easy" sidepull is not as great as it once was. didn't the route used to be 8a+ with the very hard original start?
I know the existence of the jug ledge has been debated on here and someone said that originally only the very right hand end was there, but even that is in doubt compared to what Harris reconed, that none of it was there.
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ted, its my impression that the "easy" (actually harder) way is only possible with the jug ledge in place - or maybe it woudl be possible but would be deffo much harder than any other beta. and also bear in mind that the current state of the "easy" sidepull is not as great as it once was. didn't the route used to be 8a+ with the very hard original start?
Oh right, its certainly easier than the rockover way. Maybe you're right its 'harder than the hard way'!! I personally think the easy way is 7b rather than 7a+ but that's just my opinion. I was not aware that the sidepull had altered. Hot Fun was graded 8a by Moonie in 86 when first done - it was the first 8a in the Peak but not the UK, that was of course Statement, the first 8a+ in the UK being Revelations in 84.
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Not wanting to sound boastful but as the question's been asked, I also flashed the original version of Kudos when I did it years ago, shown by Quentin (1992 I think, LOOK AT ME). This was pre pads so I shit myself when I got to the break and realised how high up I was. I had to reverse and jump off but fortunately had the big Dr spotting me, as good as a pad really! Took many more goes to repeat either the "hard" or original problems this time round and I still think the "easy" way is fucking desperate and definitely 7B.
As an amusing aside, this was around the time that Quent was trying to solo Caviar and kept falling off pretty high up and landing with a bang so loud that all the ducks and swans would take flight each time. He also nearly killed us at least three times on the drive to the crag. Mad fucker.
:off:
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Not wanting to sound boastful but as the question's been asked, I also flashed the original version of Kudos when I did it years ago, shown by Quentin (1992 I think, LOOK AT ME). This was pre pads so I shit myself when I got to the break and realised how high up I was. I had to reverse and jump off but fortunately had the big Dr spotting me, as good as a pad really!
Good bit of history there Jasper! :lol:. Nice.
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soloing caviar would be proper balls-deep - that top section ain't easy for a kickoff! and the ground is very hard.
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I was not aware that the sidepull had altered. Hot Fun was graded 8a by Moonie in 86 when first done - it was the first 8a in the Peak but not the UK, that was of course Statement, the first 8a+ in the UK being Revelations in 84.
Not true, Revelations was 8a when first done. The crux pocket got worse due to either blow torching or sika in the back to stop seepage (I've heard both reasons put forward). So Caviar was the first 8a+, despite what Northern Limestone says.
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When did the sidepull on the easier way change? I didn't know it had.
Dave - When I said flash I meant a flash of the route after bouldering out the start, i.e a ground-up ascent without weighting the rope, which is a flash of sorts. But a true flash/onsight is well possible for some of the bouldering beasts wandering the crags these days.
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soloing caviar would be proper balls-deep - that top section ain't easy for a kickoff! and the ground is very hard.
Too right. Quentin seemed to have the inate ability to not hurt himself despite landing like a crane that'd been pushed off a skyscaper. The same day we were at Rubicon we went to Black Rocks and he fell/jumped off near the top of Velvet Silence (no pads obviously) and smashed into the ground horribly but just dusted himself off and laughed.
Bonjoy is right about Revelations and it was the sika that made it worse imo. The torching probably had something to do with it crumbling, getting even worse and going up to 8b.
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well a few years ago i'm sure there was like a little block but to the sidepull (you could drag your hadn on it fingers split) which ain't there now. however i'm sure i read somewhere the reason the so-called "easy" was was now quite tricky was because the sidepull had got much worse than originally, presumably some time in the mid 90s. maybe harris can shed some light.
I'm sure i'd heard that jerry filled the back of the revelations pocket in when he realised it was too easy!
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Not true, Revelations was 8a when first done. The crux pocket got worse due to either blow torching or sika in the back to stop seepage (I've heard both reasons put forward). So Caviar was the first 8a+, despite what Northern Limestone says.
Oh yeah you're right I have seen Rev referred to as 8a next to a picture of Jerry on it with knee high white socks and EB's and with that dodgy thread at the top of the groove in place!! Class. Perhaps its time for the historical record to be altered that keeps referring Rev to have been 8a+. BTW I believe John Hart has the original lip of the Revelations pocket that broke off in 95, there was a thread about it a while back.
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I thought Caviar was 8a now? How has that got easier then?
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If Caviar was 8a that would mean it was the same grade as 'Dangerous Brothers' and 'Out of my Tree' - is that really true? :-\
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as far as I'm aware caviar is given 8a+ in the cockfax and the '99 bmc guide.
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No wonder it felt hard.
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Have never heard anyone suggest 8a for Caviar before. 8a+ and not a pushover at that in most peoples opinions. You should try the top bit though JB (if you haven't already). I know you've done the start, which is at least half the hard climbing out of the way.
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If I recall correctly JB flashed the start up to halfway, which judging by the recent reports from the recent masses who have been all over it like a rash, is the hard bit! That wasn't my experience of it, but then I was using Brokebackhat's nasty reachy tiny pocket lock-off sequence. I also remember JB having a brief feel of the upper section with this method, but it seemed he preferred the feel of his briefs hanging in the harness. Adam, I hear on the grapevine that the top bit is OK using an egyptian and a *pinch*. No minging crimps, get involved...
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and also bear in mind that the current state of the "easy" sidepull is not as great as it once was.
Bang on there Dave, it would appear that a little chunk of the sidepull has parted company with the crag. Tried it today and didn't seem to make much/ any difference to the move as the actual surface of the sidepull is intact, it seems that the wall an inch to the left has got a bit of a dent in it. still a gutbuster of the move and much harder than the top move which once figured out is bout V6/7. For peeps trying it, pocket with RH and rock up/egyptian with LF in break way out left seems way to go!
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Any new info on whats going on with the Peal Bolt Fund a the moment? Having not really done much sport climbing before last year I didn't feel the need to donate but the last two years have been a bit of a revelation for me on Peak lime and I'd be keen to give something back.
From previous threads it looks like some money is there but the hands are not available? Is this still the case? If so I'd be willing to give up a day to learn how to bolt and then another day to actually re-bolt some stuff. If I had any more time I'd do more but I only get to climb 1 out of 4 weekends so ideally I'd rather just stump up some cash instead! What sort of donation are we talking to actually be worthwhile? £50? £100?
:off: Did Stone the Loach today! YYFY!
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The PBF is still here doing its thing. A few people slowly picking things off which over time has resulted in a lot of stuff getting done.
More competent and keen bolters would be nice, however I’m not sure how productive it is for people to spend a day learning in order to then do a day bolting. To put it in work terms it would be three man days (a day for you and trainer (most likely me), then a day for you to bolt) to get one man day of bolting done. Also, as a general rule people are slowest and make most of their mistakes on the first few routes bolted. On the other hand if enough people expressed an interest in learning then it would be worth arranging a group training day.
There is still plenty you could do to help which doesn’t require technical learning. You could contact JC (who is usually the most active bolter) and offer assistance. It is a huge help having someone on the ground when bolting to pass up kit and to deal with the public if bolting somewhere like the Cornice. Also there are still a number of routes which were bolted last year which still have their old bolts in place. Removing these is a hard and time consuming job. A lot of bolter’s time is also spent cleaning the rock on routes which have not been climbed for ages, which is another massively helpful thing you could do. The more help like this that the bolters can get the more free time they have to put in bolts.
There’s no lower limit on donation size. Any contribution will get put to good use eventually.
Good effort on STL. Nice route.
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Is training such an issue? IMO the BMC users guide (http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcNews/media/u_content/File/equipment_advice/bolt_funds/Users_guideLR.pdf) is so comprehensive and clear that anyone with no experience but a practical bent could do a first rate job just following it.
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This is true, but by training I as much mean vetting. Drills are very expensive and the PBF one is not insured (maybe it should be). Also, bad bolting can and does spoil routes, or can even be dangerous, either way it’s a pain in the arse to sort out. The BMC info is brilliant and pretty (but not fully) comprehensive, however it doesn’t guarantee that the reader has good judgement when it comes to picking where to put a bolt vis-à-vis rock quality, proximity to old bolt, clipping position etc. Many people could learn to drive unsupervised from reading a book, but I wouldn’t necessarily give them my car keys and send them out on the road on their word alone.
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That said, in practice everyone who has bolted for the PBF is self taught to some extent or another and I don’t refuse to send out the kit if folk say they know what they are doing (and preferably have someone who will vouch for them) and seem confident in their own competance.
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If people don't know how to bolt, just cleaning up a route that needs rebolting is a massive help. Mainly talking about the Cornice here. Something like Monumental Armblaster last year probably would have taken about 5 days for one person to fully sort out! ::)
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Worth mentioning here that Abracadabseil's (http://access-techniques.com/about.html) pull tester is available for testing bolts if anyone is unsure of their placements or just wants peace of mind. It will only test the bolt in the hole though, so you still have to be careful to choose a suitable area of rock first.
If you want to practice, there are several suitable areas in Horseshoe - either at the base of the main crag or in the BMC's test bed on the quarry floor.
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Is training such an issue? IMO the BMC users guide (http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcNews/media/u_content/File/equipment_advice/bolt_funds/Users_guideLR.pdf) is so comprehensive and clear that anyone with no experience but a practical bent could do a first rate job just following it.
I'm afraid "a practical bent" is not something I believe I possess. I'm a geneticist, I can't remember the last time I even used a drill so in reality I'd probably be less than useless without a fair amount of coaching! I'd be keen to make a donation though and also don't mind spending some time doing some cleaning if someone points me in the right direction. Maybe I'd be best to actually clean up something I'd be keen to do myself to make it interesting. I've not got a particularly great knowledge of Peak Lime but perhaps a former great which has become sadly neglected and needs cleaning and re-bolting? Somewhere around the 7c+/8a mark to make it a bit of a project. Anything like that on the list of stuff that is in the pipeline?
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I'd be keen to make a donation though and also don't mind spending some time doing some cleaning if someone points me in the right direction. Maybe I'd be best to actually clean up something I'd be keen to do myself to make it interesting. I've not got a particularly great knowledge of Peak Lime but perhaps a former great which has become sadly neglected and needs cleaning and re-bolting? Somewhere around the 7c+/8a mark to make it a bit of a project. Anything like that on the list of stuff that is in the pipeline?
To donate go here: http://thepeakboltfund.blogspot.com/ (http://thepeakboltfund.blogspot.com/)
Jug Jockey at the Chee Dale Cornice would be a good one
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I think Kristian is on with that one already. Can't think of anything super classic off the top of my head. What’s left to do are mostly the routes which might well be great but have been out of condition/favour for so long that they’ve become unknown quantities. Things like Michael Footjam, The Vision, Something Fishy, those 7cs on the right side of Long Wall.