UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => bouldering => Topic started by: i.munro on April 17, 2008, 01:47:29 pm
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Can I draw peeps attention to this
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=296681&new=4392722#x4392722
I thought it might be important
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as far as I understand the "try to not to use much chalk" thing is no different in albarracin than anywhere else - the more serious chalk issue is not climbing/chalking problems which face the main forest tracks - this is part of the official guidelines.
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as far as I understand the "try to not to use much chalk" thing is no different in albarracin than anywhere else - the more serious chalk issue is not climbing/chalking problems which face the main forest tracks - this is part of the official guidelines.
The 'Grimper' article seemed clear that it was visual pollution that was a threat to access.
Tick marks were mentioned in particular as well. This seems also to be the case on the Albarracin website
as it is in a list of rules which finishes with the statement
"Those Rules are an important compromise between climber’s community and Park authority,...."
This sounds to me (& I haven't been) to be a bit more critiical than in other places where chalk & tick marks just bugger up the climbing for other climbers & the lndowner or whatever doesn't even think of it as an issue.
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I'd have thought the vast amounts of used toilet roll might represent a greater threat to access :shrug:
Like dave says brushing off excess chalk should be standard routine. That said a chalky hold is going to stay white on red sandstone no matter how much brushing you do (unless water is used).
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Like dave says brushing off excess chalk should be standard routine. That said a chalky hold is going to stay white on red sandstone no matter how much brushing you do (unless water is used).
I find it amazing that when I , or apparently the editorial staff of Grimper or the Spanish guys doing the negotiations know two things
1) Access is subject to no visual pollution
&
2) a chalky hold is going to stay white on red sandstone no matter how much brushing you do
we seem to conclude "we must either avoid chalk or possibly use this coloured stuff."
Whereas those in the Uk seem to conclude "I'll just carry on as usual then. It's only foreign after all"
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I'd have thought the vast amounts of used toilet roll might represent a greater threat to access :shrug:
Like dave says brushing off excess chalk should be standard routine. That said a chalky hold is going to stay white on red sandstone no matter how much brushing you do (unless water is used).
I agree. The mess of toilet paper is so much worse than chalk marks.
The authorities have to decide if they want climbing there or not as people are not going to start using coloured chalk.
At the end of the day it is a situation that can only be sorted out by the locals with mediation
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At the end of the day it is a situation that can only be sorted out by the locals with mediation
They appear to me to have done so (resumably after a great deal of work)& made a simple & easily complied with request but you think people would rather lose access than modify theur behaviour slightly.
Scary thing is from what I see on sandstone & at Bleau you're probably right.
God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
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When I was in Albaracin, I saw nobody of any nationality either abstaining from chalk or using coloured chalk. Did you see otherwise when you went? I think this is more a case of words in negotiations not equating to action on the ground rather than british visitors behaving badly whilst our european counterparts do the right thing. When I was there I saw a fair few people showing little respect for the crag by camping in the carpark with attendant litter/bog-roll problems and being excessively load at the crag, they were all Spanish.
Could you please give me a link to an internet supplier of coloured chalk, or let me know which shop you bought your's at? You did use it I presume?
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When I climbed there I:
a: Didn't camp in the car park
b: Didn't shit at the crag and leave bog paper
c: Didn't use excessive chalk
I did however:
a: Clean off my tick marks
b: Pick up other peoples rubbish
c: Respect the area
Fuck off i.munro :wank:
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God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
Theres only one god climber and I don't think many people would refer to him as scum...
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn97/moomastic/t-shirt-web.gif)
(Perhaps you missed a comma ;) )
I think you've taken Bonjoy and dave's comments out of context.
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basically the only way you're going to avoid visual pollution of chalk at albarracin is by banning climbing there, but even that won't work since all the roof or steep sections will stay chalked forever without pressure washing them. like lovejoy says, everyone there uses chalk, french spanish whoever, we even saw spaniards with wirebrushes. go on the web and see videos made by the locals - you'll see they're not shy of using tickmarks. this ain't brits abroad ruining it for everyone. and like dylan and jon have said, the shit everywhere is a greater concern. some people obvisouly find the look of chalk more offensive than having human shit all over their and their young kid's shoes.
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God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
Frankly this is utter shit. I spent six months climbing around Europe last year and one thing that I was struck by time and again is how respectful UK climbers are of the crag environment compared to some europeans. It is par for the course to find crap and bog roll all over the place at Spanish sport crag in particular, screaming when you fall off is the done thing, dogs at the crag is the rule not the exception, people will camp all over the place regardless of local rules and litter is often not disposed of properly.
In contract take a look at an extremely popular crag like Stanage. Very little litter, very little shouting, very little shit and bog-roll.
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i second all of lovejoy's comments re: albarracin. last year we did our research and respected the access issues when we were there. this thread is just an opportunity to make sweeping generalisations about british climbers.
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The turds at Albarracin are everywhere! I think the dry environment there makes this problem more noticable as the poo and paper doesn't get washed in the ground and broken down as fast, as other places. I remember the ends of crags in the Frankenjura being minefields of shit too, but the worst place ever was the woods bordering the free camp site near cuvier. Castle Hill has long drop toilets and was pristine when we visited. No toffee logs, paper, litter, excessive chalk or many tick marks. The answer is clearly to only climb on limestone.
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this thread is just an opportunity to make sweeping generalisations about british climbers.
That's sweeping generalisations about British climbing magazines thank you very much.
Or at least that's where it started.
To clarify, my view is that if the local activists at any area I visit ask me to do something
(dress in wizard's robes, wear women's clothes, even something as bizzarre as not bolting perfectly good gritstone) whatever, I will go along because they know the local situation & it's them who have to live with the consequences.
Whether other visitors do or don't is an issue for them. I'm not going to use it as an excuse.
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I'm assuming this thread hasn't got anything to do with your general "anti-chalk" stance?
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I think i.munro was trying to juxtapose English and French opinions on chalk
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I think i.munro was trying to juxtapose English and French opinions on chalk
I was suprised by the difference between the respective standards of journalism.
As to my views on chalk they came from doing what I sad above & not using it in Bleau because that's what the local guidelines said. After a while (& a bit of pointless faffing around with pof) I realised that
" bugger me they're right" it does make the rock slimy."
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this thread is just an opportunity to make sweeping generalisations about british climbers.
That's sweeping generalisations about British climbing magazines thank you very much.
Or at least that's where it started.
God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
make your mind up.
is the grimper article recent? i read one a few years ago which was good, likewise one in Escalar. i'll read the article in climber at some point and probably agree to a certain extent on one point with you. until you've actually been to albarraccin and experienced the situation we'll disagree on the other shit, as it were.
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make your mind up.
I did say that I started wittering on about journalism.
Then got a bit narked that everyone seemed to think that somehow being told not to use white chalk somehow doesn't count.
It was the current issue about a month ago. FWIW when & if I get round to going (assuming theplace hasn't been closed by then) I shall be doing my very best not to add to the bog roll mountain.
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So you recon you can climb fine without chalk? so why use it at all then?
Like Dave sez:
basically the only way you're going to avoid visual pollution of chalk at albarracin is by banning climbing there, but even that won't work since all the roof or steep sections will stay chalked forever without pressure washing them.
Also smoking in public places is banned in spain but that hasn't stopped them one bit
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Same in Italy. Everone, including the coppers, still seems to smoke where the fuck they like.
I fucking love chalk. As a sweaty fingered greaser it makes a MASSIVE difference to me.
Clean holds properly, don't put tick marks everywhere, no problem.
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I advocate a Hueco-style approach. Alberracin should be patrolled by people w/ power to force you off the land. Their salaries will be paid for by an entrance fee to the hillside, your time there will be limited and booked in advance. Additional funds generated will be spent on establishing toilet facilities. Camping will be disallowed. Fires will be disallowed. White chalk or pof will be disallowed; sand-coloured chalk will be sold on site.
How does that song go? You only know what you've got when it's gone . . .
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I think the main problem that may decide the access of Albarracin, and probably most other highly visited areas that we go to, is 'shit'. Albarracin in particular has a massive problem with this - have you checked out Parking Area 1 - pretty disgusting. I think pretty much every boulder here has a dump or two underneath (or not hidden at all), with bog roll every where. Its not so bad further into the forest, as I guess people willing to walk further to boulder, will no doubt, walk further to crap, and bother to hide/bury it.
I think it's pretty ironic these days. I think we all frown upon dog owners who casualy walk on after letting there dogs foul the pavements on the streets where we live i.e 'For fucks sake, clean up after your dog', but then find it okay to shit under the odd 8a here and there. We all get caught short, but only some of us deal with it in a correct and polite manner.
End of rant.
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Fuck off i.munro :wank:
I don't know what you're getting so bent out of shape about.
You said
"The authorities have to decide if they want climbing there or not as people are not going to start using coloured chalk."
& I agreed that you were probably right (from what has happened in other areas).
Do you think that risking losing access to someone's local crag (possibly after months of negotiation) rather than just being a bit careful or buying something cheap is admirable behaviour?
Or do you take exception to me exempting foreigners from that, simply because where I see this behaviour it's in the UK? I suspect, human nature being what it is, that I'd see the same if I lived elsewhere but I don't.
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Gee, I wish I could visit this wonderful land where continental sorts levitate up problems without recourse to chalk, but I don't think I'll be able to. On our trip to Font earlier in the year, I was amazed by the amount of tick marks in almost every photo in our guide, and on the many problems in the forest. Were these all made by Brits? I think not. Yes, a minority of Brits may be guilty of this behaviour, but no doubt so are many others. Calling all British climbers scum is just antagonistic, and makes you guilty of a sweeping generalisation, yet you also claim to hate these (probably explains the smiley).
I think it's all to easy to blame the Brits for just about everything, but I expect many of the local climbers use chalk, and with the area being popular chalk build up is an obvious effect. But now access is threatened, some people shit the bed, and look for scapegoats. If chalk's so bad why did they ever use it in the first place? And I might ask you the same question.
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I object to you making sweeping comments about UK climbers being scum as I respect the areas that I climb in UK and abroad. I don't need you telling me to behave in a particular way when I already act responsibly
Have you been to this area or are you just talking off the top of your head? The climbers that have been CJD/Bonjoy/Cofe/Dave are amazed that the current amount of shit at the crag causes a greater problem. I'm not sure about them but I find the use of excessive chalk to be less of a problem but then again I try to minimise my impact in ANY area (cleaning of ticks etc etc)
Do you think that risking losing access to someone's local crag (possibly after months of negotiation) rather than just being a bit careful or buying something cheap is admirable behaviour?
I'm not risking access with my actions, see above
Or do you take exception to me exempting foreigners from that, simply because where I see this behaviour it's in the UK? I suspect, human nature being what it is, that I'd see the same if I lived elsewhere but I don't.
No I object to you calling UK climbers scum. I see more shit and rubbish in France/Spain than I ever have in the UK as Bonjoy pointed out.
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Gee, I wish I could visit this wonderful land where continental sorts levitate up problems without recourse to chalk, but I don't think I'll be able to.
I'm going to repeat this cos clearly no-one's listening
I see this behaviour in the UK? I suspect, human nature being what it is, that I'd see the same if I lived elsewhere but I don't. (so I don't see it)
& Dylan I'm not telling you how to behave. I was agreeing with your assessment of how climbers (as a group) behave.
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Never been, but personally I feel that addressing the indiscriminant brown torpedos would be of greater concern than the visual impact of chalk. Not only is it unslightly (as chalk is) its also a "health risk" (especially if its an area where families with inquisitive children who are wont to rummage and pick things up frequent).
Thats not to say that the two can't be tackled in tandem, but others are pointing out that there is a far more important issue that should perhaps be address before that of the unslightly chalk, which is in no way harmful to visitors health.
Its great that your highlighting the access issues, but I think you may have lost perspective by ranting on and on about chalk when there are turds lying around.
I don't actively seek them out, but of the crags that I frequent here in the UK I very very very rarely see human excrement and toilet paper lying around. Thus whilst it may be that some visiting brits use chalk and don't clean it off, they're unlikely to be the ones defecating under the rocks.
Pure conjecture but what the fuck do I know :shrug:
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Its great that your highlighting the access issues, but I think you may have lost perspective by ranting on and on about chalk when there are turds lying around.
If the UK magazine article had chosen to omit any mention of 'turds' from it's version of the access restrictions & shown pictures of climbers carrying toilet rolls then I might have 'ranted' on about that.
First I knew about this issue was from this thread.
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Time the local authorities started paying for facilities. Visiting climbers generate enough in trade to justify a few composting dunnies, what? Jobby solved.
Less expensive local government "debate" more direct action. Shitting in a placcy bag and taking it elsewhere wouldn't harm too.
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I think attitudes need to change. People shit at British crags as well and its just not on.
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Crag= Climb
Bog/WC/Toilet/Crapper= Shit
It ain't so hard to comprehend.
C'mon you fuckers. Get it the right way round :spank:
And, i.munro I'm sorry but I had to punter you for the "dynos don't exist (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=296483&v=1#x4392563)comment".
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If you've got to go, you've got to go tho.
People just aren't educated on how to shit properly outdoors, bury the turd somewhere discreet and burn the paper.
I love chalk, its fucked my hands forever but I still love it.
I also think that rock with a load of chalked up holds on it actually looks better but thats just my opinion.
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:agree:
We were discussing this in Font the other week and agreed that chalk on holds from people climbing on them actually looks good but tick marks (or anything drawn on the rock) look fucking awful. As you say, it's just down to opinion but my opinion is that I love chalk. :-*
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I had this same converstion in Swiss with Dobbin and the hero of Trad. The 1st time I went to cresciano it was wet and I wasn't that impressed by the lines. On this trip they were chalked up and looked amazing. I'm not talking tick marks BTW. I do wonder though what the general public think, if they think anything at all.
This might help people in the woods
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xTA72GxFjasC&dq=how+to+shit+in+the+woods&pg=PP1&ots=I1oGpBYqAV&sig=BBkuvNe_O8B77Ieuc_Ugf4ei7Qk&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=how+to+shit+in+the+woods&btnG=Google+Search&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail
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We were discussing this in Font the other week and agreed that chalk on holds from people climbing on them actually looks good ..
Thing is my opinion or yours are of no importance in Albarracin. According to 'Grimper' (crap translation by me) what matters is
"climbing is now regulated by decree 1146 of the 26 Mar 2007, available in Official Journal 45 of the region of Aragon of the 18th April 2007"
" a strict set of rules which must be followed to the letter if you don't wish to ,in the first place incur an astronomical fine but also more importantly, condemn the site to a final & definitive closure"
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Was climbing with Jackie Godoff last month at Font and he had a chalk bag :jaw:
Didn't have a shit though!
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Thing is my opinion or yours are of no importance in Albarracin. According to 'Grimper' (crap translation by me) what matters is
"climbing is now regulated by decree 1146 of the 26 Mar 2007, available in Official Journal 45 of the region of Aragon of the 18th April 2007"
" a strict set of rules which must be followed to the letter if you don't wish to ,in the first place incur an astronomical fine but also more importantly, condemn the site to a final & definitive closure"
And the thing is that this is simply hearsay from an article you've read rather than the first hand knowledge given by people on here who have actually been there. Even if you take the article as gospel then does "following the rules to the letter" mean stopping using white chalk altogether?
I know nothing of the situation at Albarracin other than what I have read on here and on other websites but it would appear that those regulations were put in force over a year ago. Has chalk use been completely eradicated then or has climbing been banned and the site closed? Or is this not actually what the regulations state?
Surely, as Dave pointed out in the first reply on this thread, these are strict guidelines on minimizing climber impact at a crag where access is an issue. This is something which we all feel strongly about but which you are attempting to turn into the usual "British chalk using cunts are ruining it for everyone else!" nonsense. Don't try to say you were only pointing out journalistic differences when you have written the statement that British climbers are scum.
Was climbing with Jackie Godoff last month at Font and he had a chalk bag
All the locals I've met there use chalk. The guy who showed me and Lagers round Sabots last year (a proper Bleausard who had the whole crag dialled) borrowed my chalkbag to show us a traverse as he only had a big bucket one. The only people I ever hear complaining about the use of chalk (not the misuse or overuse but just using it full stop) are British.
This is just from my experience.
Ian, you say that you only spoke about UK climbers actions because you live here and therefore that is what you have seen and are qualified to comment on. However although you don't live there you have climbed extensively in Font. Perhaps this means that you have never seen French, Spanish, Dutch, American etc etc climbers using chalk in the forest? I would suggest that this is bullshit of the highest order and a poor attempt to backtrack from a very offensive and incorrect generalisation. But that's just my opinion. ;)
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Don't try to say you were only pointing out journalistic differences when you have written the statement that British climbers are scum.
Sorry to be rude but I can't be bothered with this any further except to point out that I didn't' say that.
I said (in response to Dylan's comments that climbers wouldn't change their behaviour to preserve access)
that climbers ( I should have written in general but assumed it was obvious) are Scum.
I then amended this to be slightly less sweeping by limiting it to UK climbers as the access agreement I see being regularly ignored is at Eridge Green & I'm confident nobody sane is travelling from Spain or Provence to go there.
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Don't try to say you were only pointing out journalistic differences when you have written the statement that British climbers are scum.
Sorry to be rude but I can't be bothered with this any further except to point out that I didn't' say that.
Really, its a wonderful thing t'internet, what you write remains there (sometimes for years after a web-site has been taken down, archived away by some web-bot-crawler...
At the end of the day it is a situation that can only be sorted out by the locals with mediation
They appear to me to have done so (resumably after a great deal of work)& made a simple & easily complied with request but you think people would rather lose access than modify theur behaviour slightly.
Scary thing is from what I see on sandstone & at Bleau you're probably right.
God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
You started off general, and specifically singled out British climbers as being scum.
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I'd best give my opticians a call. These contact lenses are obviously playing up.
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I said (in response to Dylan's comments that climbers wouldn't change their behaviour to preserve access)
that climbers ( I should have written in general but assumed it was obvious) are Scum.
Yeah, we get that. You've said it twice now. But you only said
God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
once.
You said what you said, whether you said what you meant or not. And it's obviously rubbed people op the wrong way. So maybe you should admit you were wrong Or stand by your comment.
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I think you are misquoteing me here. I didn't say that climbers wouldn't change their behavior. I pointed out the rather more pressing issue of litter/shit at the crag.
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Scary thing is from what I see on sandstone & at Bleau you're probably right.
God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
You started off general, and specifically singled out British climbers as being scum.
[/quote]
No (read it) I specifically exempted others from my description because of lack of evidence.
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I think it would be extraordinarily rude of me to do so, so I won't. But I could n a m e numerous British climbers I know personally to be scum. I could provide evidence as to why they are scum too (where they shit is the least of their crimes I assure you). But I don't think it's something you should run w/ too far: the turds are still there, smiling.
8)
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Are you smoking crack?
Which part of God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
do I not understand?
You made a sweeping generalisation of British climbers. End of story.
Stop trying to make out that none of use would change our behavior to retain access to an area.
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I think you are misquoteing me here. I didn't say that climbers wouldn't change their behavior. I pointed out the rather more pressing issue of litter/shit at the crag.
Now who's suffering selective amnesia
"The authorities have to decide if they want climbing there or not as people are not going to start using coloured chalk."
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Scary thing is from what I see on sandstone & at Bleau you're probably right.
God climbers (at least brit climbers) are scum!
You started off general, and specifically singled out British climbers as being scum.
No (read it) I specifically exempted others from my description because of lack of evidence.
I did read it, and since you seem to enjoy being pedantic I'm going to run with it.
Using "at least" is not an exclusion, in this sentence you are using it to mean that at the minimum you feel British climbers are scum, but that there are others nationalities who may well fall into the "scummy" category. There is no implicit or explicit exemption of non-British climbers at all in this sentence. :read:
Now this may not have been the feeling you wished to convey, but without the possibility to interact in person and further explain yourself readers of this thread have only what you have written to understand what you are trying to convey. I'm pretty sure that the above interpretation is correct (from a formal logic standpoint) and its pretty clear that I'm not the only one who interpreted what you had written as singling out British climbers as scum (check the thread yourself to see how many people have taken offence at what you've written).
Anyone got a bike with a reverse gear on?
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I said that they are not going to use colored chalk. I didn't say that they would not climb there or not use chalk at all
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you are using it to mean that at the minimum you feel British climbers are scum, but that there are others nationalities who may well fall into the "scummy" category. There is no implicit or explicit exemption of non-British climbers at all in this sentence. :read:
Now this may not have been the feeling you wished to convey,
Thankyou, that was exactly the clarification I wished to make as everyone then jumped from there to include
"but other nationalities are wonderful" or "that specifically means me & I can show that I'm not" neither of which I meant or wrote.
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you are using it to mean that at the minimum you feel British climbers are scum, but that there are others nationalities who may well fall into the "scummy" category. There is no implicit or explicit exemption of non-British climbers at all in this sentence. :read:
Now this may not have been the feeling you wished to convey,
Thankyou, that was exactly the clarification I wished to make as everyone then jumped from there to include
"but other nationalities are wonderful" or "that specifically means me & I can show that I'm not" neither of which I meant or wrote.
T'internet is a fickle beast.
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For some reason Mr Munro thinks the continentals are angels? with his anti chalk rants, can any sane person who has seen the effect pof has on holds really be so oblivious to the facts! This pontificating is so bloody pointless anyway as all climbers operating at a reasonable standard use chalk in font or elsewhere anyway.
I have met mr Munro he is a miserable twunt, he gave me a lecture about chalk abuse at some venue in font, i think you will find his admiration of the French is more to do with the auld alliance than anything else, he is Scottish afterall as he told me in a midlands accent. :wank:
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For some reason Mr Munro thinks the continentals are angels? with his anti chalk rants, can any sane person who has seen the effect pof has on holds really be so oblivious to the facts! This pontificating is so bloody pointless anyway as all climbers operating at a reasonable standard use chalk in font or elsewhere anyway.
I have met mr Munro he is a miserable twunt, he gave me a lecture about chalk abuse at some venue in font, i think you will find his admiration of the French is more to do with the auld alliance than anything else, he is Scottish afterall as he told me in a midlands accent. :wank:
Is Mr Munro a 3000' high Scottish twunt? :lol: I hereby declare myself to be the funniest man on the internet, furthermore....
1) I myself am perfect and can do no wrong.
2) therefore everything I do is not wrong
3) I use chalk.
4) from 1 and 2 via modus tollens, using chalk is not wrong
5) from 2 and 3 via modus ponens, using chalk is not wrong
belt and braces proof (or tautological shite)
sorted
for further information, see my paper on The Ontolgical Argument For The Use Of Chalk in The Journal of New And Unnecessary Rantings April 2007
Might I also suggest that in future people write what they mean as clearly as possible?
Well I do suggest it whatever.
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Might I also suggest that in future people write what they mean as clearly as possible?
Well, you can suggest it; but one might as well a) Piss in the wind, or b) Ask people to stay on topic instead of stymieing debate w/ pages of pointless drivel about a whole lot of THE BORE that couldn't be further away from the issues at hand.
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Back to the rather important point, access to Albarracin is sensitive because the local Mayor doesn't give two shits about climbers compared to the visitors there to visit the historical and archaelogical sites who he sees as bringing in business for his town which relies on tourism. ie, if what we do there as climbers displeases other visitors it will displease him and he would close access for climbing quicker that you can bury your post lunch turd. This HAS already happened a few years ago and the 'local' climbers managed to persuade him to grant access if certain conditions were kept to. Its really quite simple, respect these 'rules' and encourage others to do so or fuck off somewhere else. Just because other climbers can be disrespectfull cocksuckers doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Just because people are Spanish it doesn't mean they're local to the crag and are going to behave well. We climbed with a 'local' guy who was part of the team who got it reopened and he was encouraging brushing overchalked holds, using tape for tick marks and not yelling and screaming. Brushing does make a difference, tape is better for tick marks as you leave the rock clean and don't have to rely on other peoples inaccurately marked ticks, and screaming in a nice quiet forest just pisses everyone else off. As for shit, well it seems most British climbers are pretty good at hiding their shit, so why can't we simply adhere to the other 'rules' stated on the BOULDERALBERRACIN.COM website and encourage others in your group to do so. :wall:
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Ok so here are the offical rules for albarracin:
1.- All the boulders nears to the prehistorical painting are unclimbables. Don’t climb the boulders visibles from the main
route or from the trails, also if you see old chalk tracks.
check - i've never seen any climbers, brits or otherwise doing this.
2.- The climbing is forbidden in the Sectors: Madriles/Acantilados, Psykokiller, Peninsula and Valle de Madera (only the
bottom part) from January 10 to August 15, for nification of protected birds: take a few meters of respect distance, (Delimitation
panels installed on the access trails).On a general description are all the sectors that are closers to the Canyon
situated on North-East side of The Paisaje Protegido park.
check - i've never been to these areas out of season.
3.- Minimize at maximum the visual impact of the magnesium on the rock: use only the indispensable quantity, brush
before and after climbing and tleave all your garbage (cigarettes, fingers strap, ecc...). Possibly use eco-magnesium (with
rock-similar colour pigment - see the Metolius one - )
check, we only used the "indispensable quantity", brushed stuff off and didn't drop litter. I never saw any evidence of rock-coloured chalk being used. even though its "rock coloured", you'd notice it.
4.- Parking only in the autorized areas (P signals), and don’t drive in forestal routes.Camping and light free fires are
strictly forbidden.
does sleeping in the carpark count as camping? when we were there there were dozens of groups camping, maybe 60-100 people in the carpark, stereos going, bongos being played, didgeridoos banging out ethnic peace-rhythms.
5- Don’t “paint” the boulders with stripes or other signs for your dynos! If is necessary, use an adhesive band or your
strap and remove it after climbing. ABSOLUTELY don’t use POF or pine’s resine.
check, though others clearly were - the big roofs in techos being case in point. I can't see this being entirely visiting climbers.
6- NEVER use metallic brushes, even on unclimbed boulders.
We saw some spaniard/s with wire brushes, I also saw pof on holds after a french group had moved through.
Did someone mention screaming and shouting? you should have seen some of the french group there in october, the screaming was ridiculous, they were at Sol one say, we could hear them from valle de madera. ditto we could hear them at techos when we were at psychokiller.
All in all, i don't see any evidence for suggesting british climbers are less responsible or more inclined to break the rules than continental europeans. of course i can't speak for all cases, i can only go on what we did/saw on 2 visits in 2007.
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Its really quite simple, respect these 'rules' and encourage others to do so or fuck off somewhere else. Just because other climbers can be disrespectfull cocksuckers doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Just because people are Spanish it doesn't mean they're local to the crag and are going to behave well. We climbed with a 'local' guy who was part of the team who got it reopened and he was encouraging brushing overchalked holds, using tape for tick marks and not yelling and screaming. Brushing does make a difference, tape is better for tick marks as you leave the rock clean and don't have to rely on other peoples inaccurately marked ticks, and screaming in a nice quiet forest just pisses everyone else off. As for shit, well it seems most British climbers are pretty good at hiding their shit, so why can't we simply adhere to the other 'rules' stated on the BOULDERALBERRACIN.COM website and encourage others in your group to do so. :wall:
1. Stop banging head on wall
2. Remove chip from shoulder
3. Read what people have actually posted
4. Observe that UKB boulderers appear to have adhered to all the rules (with dubious exception of coloured chalk)
5. Realise you are preaching to the converted, therefore coming across as patronising and annoying
6. Consider thinking more before posting
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:oops:Fair one bonjoy, no preachin intended. no chip on shoulder either,I think my tone was a little out , got into a bit of a rant, easily done but no need eh?. just got bored of petty argueing between some users when i thought the original thread was about access sensitivity. Wasn't it?
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No worries. I can see why people get wound up. It is a brilliant place, hanging on an access knife-edge
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nice one Bonjoy