UKBouldering.com
places to visit => uk and eire => Topic started by: belperpete on April 10, 2008, 05:33:54 pm
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Thought it worth mentioning a few things, following comments re conditions on Rubicon, Raven Tor .... First, Turkey Dip, near Matlock is in pretty near perfect condition now. 3 routes by Taylor, Hawkins and Plant from 20 years ago were fully bolted, last year by Jon Clark who also added a stack of top quality new ones. New route activity has started again with a brilliant 7c+ and there's more on the way! The place packs a powerful punch for a small crag and I guarantee you'll be impressed. Apart from a warm-up, routes are all 7b and up (and I mean up). Listed in Gary's www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/ (http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/) this place is a major addition to the contemporary Peak sort scene. Second, although not a place a lot of people think of as linked to sport climbing, High Tor offers a whole bunch of top quality routes, such as Wile e Coyote, High Torquing etc. All been re-geared and, by the way, Jon's Autumn 2007 free ascents of Limelight and Squeezing out Sparks have not been repeated yet! Finally Long Tor, likewise, is in pretty good condition and hosts a whole bunch of brilliant face climbs, like The Boltest, Pistol Fingers etc., with more to come. Sorry to sound like an advert, but there is hard sport climbing South of Stoney, mostly in good condition at the moment and the area should be a must on every hard sport climbers venue list. Be glad to provide more info if you post contact details. :goodidea:
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Good info.
I've fancied a trip to long tor quarry for some time but was never sure what the seepage situation was like - reading you comments would I be correct in assuming in drys much earlier than other Peak limestone crags (Raven Tor left, Cheedale etc).
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I'm always trying to sell the virtues of South Peak sport climbing, with limited success, hopefully this year, with all of Jon Clark's stuff to go at, I might have more luck recruiting folk. For my money The Boltest is one of the Peak's best hard 7s and worth a trip for in itself.
I'll certainly be checking out the new/re-equipped stuff at High Tor and Turkey Dip, both of which look great.
Also worth a mention, although possibly needing re-bolting is Lorry Park Quarry, which has some very good looking hard face climbing.
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I definitely fancy the boltest - sounds excellent. This years plan to plan to climb away from Malham and Kilnsey more hasn't started well but when the weather improves I definitely plan to get to some new places (if I can persuade my partner)
Had a decent day at lorry park quarry years ago - the 7b crack (which looks about HVS!) was excellent, a peak quarry classic!
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All of the stuff at Long Tor apart from a couple of wet patches on Ruby was dry earlier this week. Yeah you really have to do the boltest, its soooo good! :thumbsup: Turkey Dip is also bone dry at the moment, & you can climb there in the rain cos its so steep!
Bonjoy is it ok to re-equip future primitive at LTQ with the bolts from the fund? i fancy doing it.
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For sure. I think I might have started doing that already and then ran out of batteries or something. Scum Manifesto on the RH buttress is worth reviving too, good quality 7b from what I remember.
How's the other bolting going?
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Has anybody got any good piccies of Turkey Dip they could stick up?
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Paul,
have you seen the one in the link above?
http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/mainpages/peak/Turkey%20Dip%20Rocks%20topo.htm
http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/mainpages/peak/Turkey%20Dip%20Rocks.htm
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Hadn't seen the second one:
(http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/Photographs/peak/Turkey1.jpg)
looks good.
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There's more even further afield, I'd heartily recommend 'Bolt and Believe It' down Dovedale, bit like a mini-Boo and maybe around 7b/+ (at a very rough guess).
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Hadn't seen the second one:
(http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/Photographs/peak/Turkey1.jpg)
looks good.
that does indeed look good, especially for a crag with such a shit name. I'm almost psyched! roll on the-bit-of-the-summer-where-its-too-hot-for-the-Tor.
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Here's a piccie of Jon Clark on The Land that Time Forgot (7c) to whet the appetite - it gives some idea of how steep the place ishttp://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=75771 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=75771). Sorry to do it this way, I'm gonna put some more on the picture gallery asap. Could email a few if you want?
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I remember having a day at Turkey Dip in 1989 when the fixed gear consisted of glued-in wires with rusty karabiners - ah those halcyon days. It seems to have cleaned up a bit since then.
Another ignored Peak sports venue of a similar scale and steepness to Turkey Dip is Cowdale (Biceps) near Staden:
http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/mainpages/peak/Cowdale%20Topo.htm
It will be wet until July but is great (in an obscure Peak sports crag kind of way) in the heat of summer, especially once the nettles have been flattened and the chick weed cleared. All routes were re-equipped with staples a "few" years back by Gary.
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I was around when Malc, Darren and Chris were putting up those routes (oh my god!!) and some interesting tactics were used. Yeah it's been well sorted now. New route put up yesterday few more to come soon. By the way Paul the picture on Gary's website is of Jon on first ascent of Unleashed. Also, here's a link to a picture of Mark Richards on The Boltest at Long Tor http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/craginfo.html?id=910 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/craginfo.html?id=910) - yeah Bonjoy, it's a real classic but one of many in the area. Been looking at Lorry Park, with a view to giving it a make-over. I did the trad lines here well before Pete Cresswell etc. put up the newer (and mostly excellent) sport stuff. Not the nicest place to climb but if you can put that aside, it's got the climbing. On The Road E2/3 5c (up the enormous leaning corner) is a brilliant route as well as some of the other older lines. But, they're trad and, on a crag like this will never get the attention they deserve (if any). What would people think about these being equipped (not bolt fund resources!) so it's purely sport there? That would open up a number of quality mid grade lines and it's hardly going to threaten the fabric of our mainly trad scene. Personally, I'm up for doing this but don't know what to do :please:
Finally, etjoset - interesting comment. We'd been thinking we'd have a make-over of Craig y Biceps, 'cos it's another wasted sport venue in a land maybe not quite as blessed with a wealth of new potential as our Southern European neighbours.
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I tend to agree. The cracks in LPQ would make great sport routes, but will probably never get an ascent in there current state. Like you say it couldn't be done with bolt fund resources. I often see Dan Lee (did FA on at least one of the trad routes there)through work, I'll sound him out on the subject.
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Cheers, Daniel's thoughts would be most useful. I'm up for sorting it out before long. Regarding Bolt Fund work, I'll get Jon to update you. Upper Circle (central) all done. Went to sort Zeke area out but found it done? Don't you think we need to have some system to record details (database of some sort)? Good to keep people updated as things get done.
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Cowdale would need some serious effort I would think - I enjoyed a couple of evening sessions there years ago doing stuff like Main Motor Mile etc, returned one evening about 3 years ago and it was in a bit of state, dirty, loads of nettle etc. Didn't help that the midges were murderous.
Some peak stuff just needs more people to make the effort to get out a climb on it - I was suprised by how dirty Long Wall was on a trip a couple of summers ago. Rebolting work may help, especially if well publicised - well done to all those putting the work in.
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Could anyone in the know tell me if Turkey Dip will be dry tomorrow after today's showers etc?
Thanks in anticipation.
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I'd be happy to guarantee a great days climbing if you go. Might see you there actually!
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Cheers, Daniel's thoughts would be most useful. I'm up for sorting it out before long. Regarding Bolt Fund work, I'll get Jon to update you. Upper Circle (central) all done. Went to sort Zeke area out but found it done? Don't you think we need to have some system to record details (database of some sort)? Good to keep people updated as things get done.
Yes. Will sort something like that out. A thread on here and something on the PBF website.
Zeke must have been bolted by someone unconnect with the PBF.
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looks good. can't wait to check it out
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Jon's Autumn 2007 free ascents of Limelight and Squeezing out Sparks have not been repeated yet!
What grade did he give squeezin? Did he rebolt this as well or were my approved resin bolts sufficient?
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I think I saw it written down somewhere at 7c. I would have expected 7c+, but it is many years since I tried it.
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I did the trad lines here well before Pete Cresswell etc. put up the newer (and mostly excellent) sport stuff. Not the nicest place to climb but if you can put that aside, it's got the climbing. On The Road E2/3 5c (up the enormous leaning corner) is a brilliant route as well as some of the other older lines. But, they're trad and, on a crag like this will never get the attention they deserve (if any). What would people think about these being equipped (not bolt fund resources!) so it's purely sport there? That would open up a number of quality mid grade lines and it's hardly going to threaten the fabric of our mainly trad scene. Personally, I'm up for doing this but don't know what to do :please:
Do these fall outside the geographical locale for the Peak Bolt Fund? If not is there any barrier to using resources from PBF to bolt lower graded routes, or is it only for the elite? (Assuming the resources are available of course).
Just polite enquiry, I've no agenda/axe to grind and don't want to start an argument.
Good work to those who have set up and done so much work for the PBF to-date.
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People donated to the PBF based on the premiss that the funds were for re-equipping only and no retro bolting. Within these rules any sport routes in the Peak area (doesn't have to be in the Peak park itself) can be done.
I wouldn't big us up too much. So far we've done ok with the fund raising, but not really achieved much re-bolting. :-[
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People donated to the PBF based on the premiss that the funds were for re-equipping only and no retro bolting. Within these rules any sport routes in the Peak area (doesn't have to be in the Peak park itself) can be done.
Ahh, okay that makes sense, thanks for that.
I wouldn't big us up too much. So far we've done ok with the fund raising, but not really achieved much re-bolting. :-[
Theres a certain order to things though, and you need the funds first.
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Jon's Autumn 2007 free ascents of Limelight and Squeezing out Sparks have not been repeated yet!
What grade did he give squeezin? Did he rebolt this as well or were my approved resin bolts sufficient?
The 2 resin bolts were fine, but the rest of the route i re-geared. Its now a proper sport route, as is Limelight too. I thought 7c was about right because after the short boulder out of the cave, its basically only about 6c+ to the top. I'm not very good at grading so i am keen for people to repeat these two routes! :)
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I did the trad lines here well before Pete Cresswell etc. put up the newer (and mostly excellent) sport stuff. Not the nicest place to climb but if you can put that aside, it's got the climbing. On The Road E2/3 5c (up the enormous leaning corner) is a brilliant route as well as some of the other older lines. But, they're trad and, on a crag like this will never get the attention they deserve (if any). What would people think about these being equipped (not bolt fund resources!) so it's purely sport there? That would open up a number of quality mid grade lines and it's hardly going to threaten the fabric of our mainly trad scene. Personally, I'm up for doing this but don't know what to do :please:
Do these fall outside the geographical locale for the Peak Bolt Fund? If not is there any barrier to using resources from PBF to bolt lower graded routes, or is it only for the elite? (Assuming the resources are available of course).
Just polite enquiry, I've no agenda/axe to grind and don't want to start an argument.
Good work to those who have set up and done so much work for the PBF to-date.
I just hate to see good rock wasted. You've only got to look at the numbers visiting Horseshoe to see that there's a real need for quality, well equipped lower graded routes. Take Lorry Park Quarry itself and there are 4 really good crack lines all at about 6b+/c ish that won't get done trad, but cleaned and bolted would get at least some attention I'm sure. As for financing stuff like that, fool that I am, I don't mind funding it myself - I think retrobolting shouldn't be on the Peak Bolt Fund agenda.
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People donated to the PBF based on the premiss that the funds were for re-equipping only and no retro bolting. Within these rules any sport routes in the Peak area (doesn't have to be in the Peak park itself) can be done.
I wouldn't big us up too much. So far we've done ok with the fund raising, but not really achieved much re-bolting. :-[
Long Tor pretty good today - bit of seepage from weekend but rapidly drying. Boltest looking good for example. Future Primitive rebolted today, maybe clean it Tuesday. Is that your single bolt between PF and FP? If so, do you mind if we have a look at that area? Doing some heavy work on the ledge system to make it more pleasant up that end of the crag. Some new stuff (own bolts) done at Turkey Dip, likewise in excellent condition.
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Yeah, that'll be my bolt. By all means use it and scope out the area for new lines. I seem to remember their being a few things to do further up slope. Good work with the ledge clearance. It was a right jungle when I first started re-development! It was an epic struggle just to force a way through. I'm looking forward to a re-visit now.
Do have a look at Scum Manifesto buttress too. That and the route to it's left Human Capital are good and there looks to be a worthwhile hard line up the left arete by the upper part of SM (I got as far as removing a huge swath of Ivy that had grown over these in 2006). New Bridge buttress at Wildcat might also be worth checking out.
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Cheers Jon, yeah it must have been like a trip to the lost world. I'll keep plugging away with the clear up and it'll get there eventually. Thanks for go ahead with possible new line, will have a look soon, as well as other areas to right. Did have a look at New Bridge, earlier this year - it was a rubbish day and it'll be worth a revisit.
Incidentally, when Jon and I saw you to pick up the rebolting stuff, you mentioned having some good drill bits. I reckon mine are a bit crappy and wondered what you'd got from Neil?
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I'm pretty sure it's these http://www.hilti.co.uk/holuk/modules/prcat/prca_printpage.jsp?RANGE_ID=r1534 . They are a 'double fluted helix' design, so they have a cross profile at the tip.
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:off: But:
Scum Manifesto buttress.
Is this buttress horrifically sharp? Society for Cutting Up Men as written by the fruitloop who shot Warhol. I have this pamphlet somewhere...
Fascinating read.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/ValerieSolanasSCUMCover.gif)
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I'm pretty sure it's these http://www.hilti.co.uk/holuk/modules/prcat/prca_printpage.jsp?RANGE_ID=r1534 . They are a 'double fluted helix' design, so they have a cross profile at the tip.
Not your normal home maintenance kit! Any chance I could pick up a couple from you as we're not getting as many holes out of a full battery as we should and I'm sure it's down to our cheapo drill bits. Promise to only use them on rebolting projects! By the way, bought a 2nd hand Hilti complete resin applicator from ebay for £30 - they're best part of £100 new, so I was well pleased. There's usually a few available on ebay at a similar price.
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Yes, of course. I'm usually in Mon,Wed and Fri after 5pm. Txt or PM me when you want to get them.
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:off: But:
Scum Manifesto buttress.
Is this buttress horrifically sharp? Society for Cutting Up Men as written by the fruitloop who shot Warhol. I have this pamphlet somewhere...
Fascinating read.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/ValerieSolanasSCUMCover.gif)
It's not quite that bad!! Did you know there's a French film of the name from 1976. Andy Warhol did a film called Women in Revolt inventing a group of feminists called the PIG society (Politically involved girlies).
Pub Quiz question of the day - "What's the connection between the Manic Street Preahers and Valerie Solanas?"
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Yes, of course. I'm usually in Mon,Wed and Fri after 5pm. Txt or PM me when you want to get them.
Cheers, will get in touch :thumbsup:
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Pub Quiz question of the day - "What's the connection between the Manic Street Preahers and Valerie Solanas?"
Of Walking Abortion - Manics tune based on Solanas' SCUM Manifesto proposal that as the male chromosome is an incomplete female chromosome men are incomplete emotionally etc. Fucking mentalist.
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Of Walking Abortion - Manics tune based on Solanas' SCUM Manifesto proposal that as the male chromosome is an incomplete female chromosome men are incomplete emotionally etc. Fucking mentalist.
I regularly use the excuse "I can't help it - I have a broken chromosome" when I fail to perform some domestic chore correctly or on time, and so must thank Ms Solanas for pointing this out to me. :thumbsup:
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Of Walking Abortion - Manics tune based on Solanas' SCUM Manifesto proposal that as the male chromosome is an incomplete female chromosome men are incomplete emotionally etc. Fucking mentalist.
I regularly use the excuse "I can't help it - I have a broken chromosome" when I fail to perform some domestic chore correctly or on time, and so must thank Ms Solanas for pointing this out to me. :thumbsup:
My wife's a big fan of hers and often calls me by the name of that particular manifesto!!
Yeah you got your points. Their song "Of Walking Abortion" on the album The Holy Bible is named after a quote from the manifesto and it's a good song. Another answer would have been the song (which I prefer) Little Baby Nothing from the debut album Generation Terrorists on which Solanas is quoted on the sleeve notes.
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Yes. Will sort something like that out. A thread on here and something on the PBF website.
Zeke must have been bolted by someone unconnect with the PBF.
Hi Jon,
Heard that Kristian Clemmow rebolted Zeke. Second hand beta though so not certain.
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Thought it worth mentioning a few things, following comments re conditions on Rubicon, Raven Tor .... First, Turkey Dip, near Matlock is in pretty near perfect condition now. 3 routes by Taylor, Hawkins and Plant from 20 years ago were fully bolted, last year by Jon Clark who also added a stack of top quality new ones. New route activity has started again with a brilliant 7c+ and there's more on the way! The place packs a powerful punch for a small crag and I guarantee you'll be impressed. Apart from a warm-up, routes are all 7b and up (and I mean up). Listed in Gary's www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/ (http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/) this place is a major addition to the contemporary Peak sort scene. Second, although not a place a lot of people think of as linked to sport climbing, High Tor offers a whole bunch of top quality routes, such as Wile e Coyote, High Torquing etc. All been re-geared and, by the way, Jon's Autumn 2007 free ascents of Limelight and Squeezing out Sparks have not been repeated yet! Finally Long Tor, likewise, is in pretty good condition and hosts a whole bunch of brilliant face climbs, like The Boltest, Pistol Fingers etc., with more to come. Sorry to sound like an advert, but there is hard sport climbing South of Stoney, mostly in good condition at the moment and the area should be a must on every hard sport climbers venue list. Be glad to provide more info if you post contact details. :goodidea:
Looks awesome Pete, can't wait to check it out!
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Yes. Will sort something like that out. A thread on here and something on the PBF website.
Zeke must have been bolted by someone unconnect with the PBF.
Hi Jon,
Heard that Kristian Clemmow rebolted Zeke. Second hand beta though so not certain.
Ah yes I remember now! This was done with PBF bolts after all. (I do keep a diary on the subject, just don't have it with me at work)
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Hi Pete, I agree with you that Lorry Park could do with a makeover but I'm not sure that should include retro bolting the crack lines. Their probably unclimable in there current condition in fact I think theres a rather large bush growing in one crack line. Last time I paid a visit got molested by some travellers dogs, I reckon your best approaching from the DCC car park round the back of John Hadfield House instead of running the gauntlet.
Ian was keen to do the cracks a few years back (trad of course) not sure if he got round to it due to their state.
Is bend tor on your adgenda as well ?
All the best MarkL
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New Bridge buttress at Wildcat might also be worth checking out.
Second that - I remember some great rock (similar to max buttress down cheedale) and a superb e4 of Gibsons with just one old bolt in it. Always smacked of 7a/7a+ though with the need for more gear.
JC - Did you do/regear the top pitch of SOS? I never tried it though Darren and Malc reckoned it was quality.
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yes mate the route goes right to the top of the crag in ONE pitch now, with a proper lower-off at the top. It is really good, in a great postition and not that hard, prob about 6c+ ish. I use the upper part of the route as a warm up for the other routes. Forgot to mention there are two abseil rings in the cave now for ease of belaying/descent. :)
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Hi Pete, I agree with you that Lorry Park could do with a makeover but I'm not sure that should include retro bolting the crack lines. Their probably unclimable in there current condition in fact I think theres a rather large bush growing in one crack line. Last time I paid a visit got molested by some travellers dogs, I reckon your best approaching from the DCC car park round the back of John Hadfield House instead of running the gauntlet.
Ian was keen to do the cracks a few years back (trad of course) not sure if he got round to it due to their state.
Is bend tor on your adgenda as well ?
All the best MarkL
Hi Mark - good to hear from you. I forgot you were moderator for Lorry Park, I remember Ian saying you'd done some clean up work at one point. The travelers were cleared off ages ago and the council put a 'barrier' in the way of further entry. It is a right mess there - very offputting straight away. I didn't know you could get in from Hadfield House end OK - would DCC object? Thanks for your thoughts but, regarding old crack routes, they're in such a state because they don't get done and why don't they get done - because nobody wants to bother with trad on a crag like this basically. Clean them up, put 4 bolts and a decent lower off in and bingo! They'd get some attention, although 'cos of where they are it's never gonna be at the top of anybody's list for a visit but I know Ian would be more inclined to actually climb them to give one example. Credit to you Mark for work you've done in the past but, personally I don't see the point of putting in what would be quite a lot of work to clean up routes only to see them more or less ignored, as they have been for 20 years or so. Any other takers on this one?
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I'd vote for them to be bolted.
Had a look in here not too long ago and, as Belperpete says, the cracks are in a bit of a state. Once cleaned, the only way they will ever stay clean is if they have shiny bolts sticking out every now and then. I'd be keen to climb them in that state.
Had a good day at Turkey Dip a couple of weeks ago. Check it out people, its worth a visit!
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I'd vote for them to be bolted.
Had a look in here not too long ago and, as Belperpete says, the cracks are in a bit of a state. Once cleaned, the only way they will ever stay clean is if they have shiny bolts sticking out every now and then. I'd be keen to climb them in that state.
Had a good day at Turkey Dip a couple of weeks ago. Check it out people, its worth a visit!
:thumbsup:Thanks for your thoughts - you know how I feel!
Re Turkey Dip - glad to hear you had a good time. Feedback would be really useful. Happy with the bolting generally? What routes did you climb or work and what are your thoughts on grades etc.?
It's still in excellent condition, just a little seepage here and there, but nothing critical really.
You'll see 3 more routes when you go back, as usual brilliant climbing, high 7's possibly 8's
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:bounce: forgot to mention that I put together a (very) simple topo for Long Tor quarry, 'cos it is a confusing place to scope. It's on UKClimbing database (use Crag Search in Logbooks) as a JPEG. The numbers on it match the route numbers on the database, which is why I didn't clutter the topo up with them.
Can anybody tell me about 2 routes on there that I can't locate - El Capitan (Simon Lee) and Spanner in the Works (that's gotta have been done by Andy Spendlove - of the nickname 'Spanner', surely)? Cheers
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Warmed up on Beat it. Not the greatest but gets the blood flowing. After that we got on Step on it. Fantastic route! No probs with the bolting on these on two routes. I'm keen to get back and try the other routes.
Living in Derby, I'm enjoying all the hard work that you and people like Bonjoy/JC have been putting in in the South. Should be good summer with High Tor, LTQ, Thor's n Turkey all available for some after work fun.
If you do any more re-equipping/retro work I would be happy to contribute financially, almost feeling guilty about the route to investment ratio im getting.
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Can anybody tell me about 2 routes on there that I can't locate - El Capitan (Simon Lee) and Spanner in the Works (that's gotta have been done by Andy Spendlove - of the nickname 'Spanner', surely)? Cheers
I think (but I'm not sure) they are under ivy to the right of Scum Manifesto. You could always email Simon Lee via UKC to find out for sure.
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Useful topo. Everything is in the right place except for Matt The Hoople, which should be right of the far corner line. The line on the topo in the old peak limestone rockfax is also in the wrong place.
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Warmed up on Beat it. Not the greatest but gets the blood flowing. After that we got on Step on it. Fantastic route! No probs with the bolting on these on two routes. I'm keen to get back and try the other routes.
Living in Derby, I'm enjoying all the hard work that you and people like Bonjoy/JC have been putting in in the South. Should be good summer with High Tor, LTQ, Thor's n Turkey all available for some after work fun.
If you do any more re-equipping/retro work I would be happy to contribute financially, almost feeling guilty about the route to investment ratio im getting.
:beer2:Cheers for that - I just want to see people climbing them, so it's great to hear what you say. BTW, at Turkey Dip, after 2 or 3 ups and downs on Beat it, once you've got the start of The Land.... sorted Jon's Pedal to the Metal 7b variation would get 'the blood flowing' a lot more - it's really juggy, but 'out there' (obviously). It's a brilliant route - just gives you a big buzz! Dequipping it is a sod though (leave the last one to get from ground level).
Turkey Dip was done completely out of our own pocket, as were the High Tor routes, so I suppose we're 'owed' a a couple of dozen bolts or so from the Peak Bolt Fund, but I'm not worried about that.
Any donations should go via the Bolt Fund at www.peakboltfund.co.uk (http://www.peakboltfund.co.uk) managed by Bonjoy and would be most welcome.
Incidentally, if anyone knows of a potential business sponsor (tools, fixings type stuff) via work or friends let us know.
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Useful topo. Everything is in the right place except for Matt The Hoople, which should be right of the far corner line. The line on the topo in the old peak limestone rockfax is also in the wrong place.
I never knew that and it would explain one problem. There's more room to the right of Future Primitive than I thought then.
Jon, I emailed you about picking up those drill bits - any chance later on today? If so, what's the earliest I could get you at home?
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I replied. But in case it doesn't get through, yes, early eve after 5 is good for me. See you later
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I replied. But in case it doesn't get through, yes, early eve after 5 is good for me. See you later
Cheers for that.
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Would people be into retrobolting much stuff in the Peak? It's one of those things that kicks round a lot as an idea. I really love trad limestone in the Peak, and think the routes are fantastic. And the one thing I would say about them is that they are very hard. They are often strenuous, technical, pumpy and a bit bold. No wonder people don't do them much. I don't do tons of it, but i do do it, and i think some of the routes i have done at Stoney, High Tor and WCJ are every bit as good as anything I have done on grit. I really enjoy the fact that they are traditional, and that really adds an extra challenge and for me, an extra buzz to doing them. I tried Wilt at Ravensdale last year, which felt desperate, almost 7a+ or 7b, locking off, placing little rock 2s and 3s, clipping old tat. My friend i was with did it, on his third day of trying it. It's a two star route, as the top is crumbly, but i would still be glad to spend three days trying it myself, it seems worth it.
I do think i am in the minority, however. People aren't doing these things much, are they? Would it be better to retro loads of things? I know myself that there are lots of routes i would try if they were retroed, and at the same time lots of routes i wouldn't like to see retroed. I thought, for example, On The Road was one of the best trad E3s I did in the Peak. But then everybody has their own personal opinions of what is acceptable and what isn't, which is where one of the problems come in.
My opionion is I can't think of anything I have done on High Tor or Stoney i woul like to see retroed. I wouldn't like to see OTR retroed. However, if those cracks were, I might go and try them. I know I would get tons more out of doing them as a trad route, but in reality, I am probably tons more likely to actually getting round to trying them if they were bolted.
Finally, I would say one thing. The cool thing about climbing is that bolts won't get put in those cracks as a result of any vote. Some day, if it's going to happen, someone who is sufficiently arsed will go and do it. They will get flak, the routes will get climbed or not, the bolts will get taken out, or more likely, not. Rocktalk will be up in arms, people will foam at the mouth and cite incidents from 1982, and everyone will be happy.
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Yeah, I'd agree with that, except I'm unlikely to go and climb those cracks at all, bolting them certainly wouldn't add to the appeal.
I did Mad Dogs and Englishman down Cheedale once. This gets a great write up in the guide as one of the best trad routes in the dale. Well unfortunately you can reach the bolts on the crap sport routes either side all the way up so it no longer is. More respect should have been shown when these bolts went in, the route has been turned into an anachronism.
I think its wise policy that the fund doesn't cover retrobolting.
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Yeah, i saw that. It just looked like a totally shit sport route - well, not a route at all. I'm pretty sure there was something on Rocktalk about this, maybe in the database regarding MDAE. The person who seemed to have put the bolts in seemed to have a totally shit attitude. It was no wonder he put up shit routes.
Although, to be fair, Johnny, I don't imagine that you should be taken as a barometer for what happens to Peak Limestone :)
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Au contraire, I think folk who climb too much on peak lime lose perspective on what 'quality' and 'worth' are. I am here to provide that.
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I'd agree with Grimer that a lot of Peak limestone, the tradding especially, is actually under-rated and undervalued and worth defending. I can't believe Grimer didn't mention Chee Tor, its one of my favourite Peak crags irrespective of rock type or climbing style. I suspect its under-utilised now but that shouldn't be a lazy exuse for retroing. Dovedale and the Manifold also offer huges doses of real charm and great quality.
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And for that, Johnny, on behalf of the deluded masses who sometimes climb on grit, sometimes on trad limestone, sometimes on sport, sometimes at Font, at Ceuse, Verdon, Yosemite, Utah, Kyrgyzstan, Greenland, Gogarth, Fair Head, Helsby, Wilton and The Burren, I thank you.
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You missed off The School grimer.
I agree with andy about Chee Tor. It's belting and should certainly not be retroed.
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... The School...
Actually, i think my point was that perhaps it is becoming time to think about a certain amount of retroing? I never lost much sleep when Max Wall, for example, was bolted up. I'm going into imagination mode here, but i imagine those E6 6b etc of Gary's were inspected on abseil etc and rehearsed to produce bold leads that were probably repeated, if at all, by Dougie and never again. I once belayed Stuart Cameron on one, who got a ways up and then reversed and bagged it. Stuart, at the time strong and fairly bold, wasn't going up there. Since I have done the route at 7a+ i think as a clip up. What's been lost and what's been gained?
I bet, Andy, when you did the bulk of your climbing on Chee Tor and Dovedale, it was quite 'in fashion', and therefore, clean and in good nick. I bet now there are 3 star trad lime routes that will never get an ascent in a year. I bet the pendulum of fashion will never swing back towards hard peak trad limestone. I bet the number of trad routes that never see an ascent grows year on year. I bet that won't change.
The best route I did last year was Behemoth on WCJ. Mind blowing. Safe, and totaly clean. Contradictions.
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I did some of those routes on Max Wall a very long time ago. I abbed them first though. The gear was fucking shit but the climbing piss easy once you knew what you were doing. I agree that they are better bolted (and actually climbed), they weren't great routes anyway.
Chee Tor is different though. The place is top quality and though it's a shame if it's not being used I would never advocate bolting it. Most of the routes were pretty well protected anyway. Decent fall potential on some but you weren't going to hurt yourself.
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Yeah, well I would agree with all that Jasper. I went for a walk down Chee Dale last year, and Chee Torr looked to be in a poor state. Shame. On the same day there were probably ten car-loads of punters munching their way up Horseshoe. Maybe that's the point, thet there are some routes that would make better sport routes than trad, and if that's the case maybe they should be bolted, instead of becoming overgrown and never climbed?
Which brings us back to Lorry Porry Quarry.
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And for that, Johnny, on behalf of the deluded masses who sometimes climb on grit, sometimes on trad limestone, sometimes on sport, sometimes at Font, at Ceuse, Verdon, Yosemite, Utah, Kyrgyzstan, Greenland, Gogarth, Fair Head, Helsby, Wilton and The Burren, I thank you
Are you suggesting I don't regularly climb in these or similar places? I like to think I have a pretty good handle on the breadth of climbing worldwide, which plays a big part in forming my opinion on the worth of some uk liestone venues.
I bet, Andy, when you did the bulk of your climbing on Chee Tor and Dovedale, it was quite 'in fashion', and therefore, clean and in good nick. I bet now there are 3 star trad lime routes that will never get an ascent in a year.
Indeed. El Mocho and I did a 'classic' E5 at Chee Tor last year and pondered this very question. It was filthy, and hard, and we only got up after some up-and-down tag team antics. I've no doubt it would be more popular if bolted, but does that automatically mean it has more worth? If its a difficult question - you start bolting the less 'worthwhile' lines and gradually the good trad routes become left as unpopular anachronisms or even ruined like Mad dogs.
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Perhaps Chee Tor (and other such places) just need a bit of a facelift? Replace the old fixed gear with bolts and clean it up. This, if publicised, would maybe increase popularity without ruining some classic trad routes by bolting them?
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I know it's all a complicated problem with compromises in whatever path you take. I don't think you can argue the point, however, that a significant amount of Peak trad limestone is going into a state of disrepair and becoming unclimbable.
Donate to the PRBF :)
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chee tor is a fine crag. it needs cleaning and trafffic, not aerating. trad lime maybe isn't cool at the minute. maybe it will be in the future? maybe.
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Donate to the PRBF :)
Good point.
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It's a thorny subject and one where pragmatic discussion too often descends into moral absolutism.
I do think these routes at Lorry Park are good looking routes which will never get repeated unless they are bolted. 20+ years of neglect is surely proof enough of this. Are they more valuable to us as symbolic lines in the sand or as high quality sport climbs? I don't know the answer to that. It does sometimes seem that the people totally against retro bolting are people who would never visit these places either way. If these obscure routes really are a valuable part of our trad heritage, why are they so comprehensively ignored by the climbing populace? Take Shazam at the Cheedale Cornice, one trad route in the middle of a sport crag. It is one of the few strong lines on the crag, but it isn't and hasn't been climbed in decades. Seriously, who is going to make the effort of abseilling (it's an epic job getting to the top of the crag) and spending the best part of a day cleaning the route (hence blowing the onsight), to do an E4 when there are a host of already clean ones on the other side of the river? It would be nice if there was a gang of enthusiastic trad climbers who made it their business to lovingly restore these routes, but in the absense of this the only way this route will ever get cleaned and stay cleaned is if it gets retroed.
Some routes on peak limestone just don't lend themselves to being trad routes. This tends to be due to loose rock, a tendancy to get filthy quickly, no safe top-out, no other good trad in the vicinity and/or not much gear. Some routes were put up using pegs which have long sinces rotted away and blocked the placement. Some routes were put up as headpoints. Nobody headpoints on limestone anymore and I hope it stays that way. Due to filth and loosness these routes are sometimes unjustifiable as onsights and may have changed significantly since the FA anyway. In some cases routes which would make more sense as sport routes were done as trad/headpoint back in the day, for no other reason than sport climbing wasn't the done thing at the time.
As far as Chee Tor goes I think there is some case for properly bolting the semi sport routes, but I don't believe that anything more radical than this is a good idea.
I don't think retroing obscure trad routes will reduce the popularity of good trad routes. the reality is that retroing oddball trad routes at sport crags will have no effect on trad routes at trad crags whatsoever.
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:agree: with all that 100%.
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Perhaps Chee Tor (and other such places) just need a bit of a facelift? Replace the old fixed gear with bolts and clean it up.
Mmm. Work for the new guide could maybe spur this kind of thing on a bit? Not sure whether replacing the odd peg with a bolt won't inevitably end in full-scale retrobolting though.
I don't think you can argue the point, however, that a significant amount of Peak trad limestone is going into a state of disrepair and becoming unclimbable
I look at this from another perspective, and I'm referring as much to sport routes as I am trad. I can't see it from a the point of view of 'disrepair'. If the rock's natural state is to be 'unclimbable' then the short period of its life it has been maintained in a climbable state should be viewed as an experiment and at odds with normality. If the route doesn't prove to be popular enough to be self-maintaining or to motivate regular cleaning then the experiment has failed and it should be left to return to its natural state. If fashions change the records will remain and they can be unearthed.
We had this debate a couple of years back at the international meet on welsh trad - there seemed to be a sense of panic that routes were being 'lost'. Obviously the argument here was for planned cleaning rather than retroing. My feelings were identical - so what? Let them go. As Grimer said, ultimately either individuals will be arsed to climb or clean stuff, or they won't.
I think a lot of these things get done in the first place (again, I mean sport as much as trad here) cos the main motivation is that of development and new routes. Sadly it seems for many that's the only time motivation will be high enough to do them.
I don't think retroing obscure trad routes will reduce the popularity of good trad routes. the reality is that retroing oddball trad routes at sport crags will have no effect on trad routes at trad crags whatsoever.
I agree with your second statement but not your first. Retro say fifteen of the 'obscure' routes at Chee tor and they will become more popular. The neighbouring trad routes may get the same number of ascents (likely less as folk don't bother taking a rack) but their relative popularity will certainly be diminished, and over time they'll become ignored.
Bottom line - treat unpopularity as an argument for retrobolting and in twenty/ thirty years time all peak limestone will be bolted. This is/was Bill Birch's vision and it looks more likely to me now than when he espoused it to me in '95.
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I don't think retroing obscure trad routes will reduce the popularity of good trad routes. the reality is that retroing oddball trad routes at sport crags will have no effect on trad routes at trad crags whatsoever.
I agree with your second statement but not your first. Retro say fifteen of the 'obscure' routes at Chee tor and they will become more popular. The neighbouring trad routes may get the same number of ascents (likely less as folk don't bother taking a rack) but their relative popularity will certainly be diminished, and over time they'll become ignored.
But I'm not advocating retroing obscure trad routes at Chee Tor. The only case for bolts at Chee Tor IMO is on routes such a Tequila, Boo etc which were always hard semi-sport routes. This will draw sport climbers to Chee Tor, more than it will draw trad climber off adjacent routes. I'm all for these routes being 'sportingly' bolted. In truth a lot of trad climbers daren't climb sportingly bolted routes so the popularity shift thing is going to be even less.
In the case of Tequila the first bolt was placed very high as the climbing to gain it was not very hard, it has since shed holds and is now a totally different prospect.
Bottom line - treat unpopularity as an argument for retrobolting and in twenty/ thirty years time all peak limestone will be bolted. This is/was Bill Birch's vision and it looks more likely to me now than when he espoused it to me in '95.
That's just paranoid nonsense. There will always be enough people who love doing trad limestone (me included) that this will never get anywhere near happening. The fact that very little retro bolting has happened since '95 suggests to me that Birch was wrong
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I'm not being paranoid, its the change in popularity that I see. On peak lime sport climbing is now far more popular than trad than it was in '95, and there are many more routes to go at.
The lack of popularity of lime trad (whether actual or relative -I think both) is leading folk, in this thread, to ask whether less popular trad routes should be retroed, and the consensus (which I'm not at odds with) is heading this way. The alternative being to basically abandon these routes back to nature.
I don't see lime trad swinging back into fashion anytime soon, this trend will only continue. Right or wrong who knows, I'm sure the classics of Beeston and High tors will hold out a long while yet but I think its head in the sand to deny the future holds more bolts than the present. Hopefully we can keep a good mix of both.
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Apologies for the tangent Matlock are sport folk - to get back on track here's an observation - a couple of years ago Thor's Cave was an unpopular trad venue with a couple of legacy aid lines - now its a great new-wave sport venue but the change started with some limited and justified retrobolting. The easier trad lines remain - a model for the future?
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Can't disagree with any of that. The trend is towards more sport climbing and less trad climbing on peak lime. This has as much to do with indoor apprenticeship and cheap foreign holidays as anything else. I'd love to see a trad renaissance on peak lime. I'm keen for some High Tor evening session this summer if you fancy
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Anyone know what direction long tor and lorry park quarry face? as the ukc crag dbase doesnt list this. Also how are they like for seepage? reckon either of them will be dry this weekend? providing it isnt raining this weekend?
Cheers
tim
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Anyone know what direction long tor and lorry park quarry face? as the ukc crag dbase doesnt list this. Also how are they like for seepage? reckon either of them will be dry this weekend? providing it isnt raining this weekend?
Cheers
tim
Clicking on the map links on UKC takes you to an OS overview of the area. Assuming its orientated to the North then Long Tor (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=429650&y=358750&z=3&sv=SK296587&st=5) apperas to be facing South West, whilst Lorry Park (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=429450&y=358850&z=3&sv=SK294588&st=5) is the other side of the river facing west.
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The arrow on the map for Long Tor is pointing at a railway cutting on the wrong side of the river. LTQ is on the south side of the road/river and faces NE, between the words 'Cable' and 'Car' on map.
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There is roadside parking just beneath it.
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thanks Bonjoy
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also, is turkey dip dry atm do y'all know?
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reckon either of them will be dry this weekend?
timb Long Tor was about 90% dry earlier this week, just a few small patches on Ruby and in the main break. But the boltest is do-able i think. Might be heading there myself tomorrow. Lorry park will also be dry, but don't expect the routes to be clean! They don't get climbed anymore, and the bolts are probably shit. There is a lot of work to be done at the place at some point, i'm quite keen on cleaning up The Squealer, looks ace.
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also, is turkey dip dry atm do y'all know?
Yes its dry, but i should warn people that at the moment there is a possible access situation at Turkey Dip. Turned up at the crag last week to find some new 'No Climbing' signs there, one even fixed to the crag itself. I was well angry :furious: Working on trying to get it sorted out, you should be ok at the weekend i think. But if you do get told to leave then please do. thx
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also, is turkey dip dry atm do y'all know?
Yeah it'sin pretty condition at the moment - allbutmaybe two routes do-able.
However, although it shouldn't be a problem at the weekend and evenings, people should be aware that,when Jon and I turned up there last Saturday,2 NO CLIMBING notices has been put up, one actually screwed to the rock face next to The Land that Time forgot. We've never seen anybody while at the crag and had no trouble at all. I've contacted access at BMC about it.
Don't forget, Long Tor in pretty good condition and High Tor perfect. Loads of good sport there.Jon and I are goingto clean and equip a simple approach route to the cave area, to avoid having to do the Skylight approach.
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Oops, sorry Jon you beat me top it!
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timb sorry ignore my post on Long Tor. Just had an update, apparently the heavy downpours yesterday have made Long Tor quite wet again :wall:
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thats really unfortunate :thumbsdown:
how much does it seep? if for example it was wet yesterday and had 2 days of dryness and windy conditions would you expect it to dry out somewhat or is it a leaky crag. Someone should hopepipe an industrial shitload of epoxy down the back of these limestone crags. sure it wouldn't knacker up the geology would it. :ang: :goodidea: :whistle:
cheers
tim
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I'd have thought it would be dry enough by Sunday in those conditions. It does have these annoying seepage points, but I wouldn't have thought it'd been that wet to keep it out of nick for long. Might be better to go for Turkey Dip or High Tor. Shouldn't be a problem finding stuff to do in the area. High Torquing has probably its' first ascent on Monday since Jon rebolted it last year. Wile e Coyote not been done this year yet and it's an awesome ***. Let's get these routes done - I want some pictures!
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sounds interesting although im hoping to be working 7c-8a and my mate for sunday will be probably working 7a-7b so think that rules high tor out. Wile cayote would be a possible but isnt high torquing that new 8a+?
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No it's the old Malc Taylor route (7c+?) Would be a good combination, with Wile e Coyote for you two OR Pump ot the Squealies (7b+?) and Squeezing out Sparks (7c+?). That's not had a second ascent yet - go for it. You'll need to negotiate the first crappy bit of Skylight to get to the cave at the moment. A few medium sized friends (how big's your mate?) protect if you feel the need. There's a lovely bolt belay in the cave now. I'll keep my camera handy!
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hmm could be interested. what's the bolting like on the sport routes at high tor. newish and sensibly spaced. or runout to fuk and rusty as hell?
cheers
Tim
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hmm could be interested. what's the bolting like on the sport routes at high tor. newish and sensibly spaced. or runout to fuk and rusty as hell?
cheers
Tim
:spank:Bloomin' heck Tim - you're a fussy one. No money back guarantees, but I can assure everybody that all the (re)bolting Jon's done is top class - 12mm's, friendly spacing, well positioned for clipping and proper lower-offs, so you don't knacker your ropes coming down. On High Torqueing, the 4th? bolt iS virtually unclippable on the lead, but good for working the route and you don't really need it on the red-point, as the third ones virtually level with it (you'll see what I mean).The good thing about the area now is that, if the weather craps out on the exposed stuff, you can go to Turkey Dip. We've climbed there during last year's rubbish summer in pouring rain showers. The tops can get a bit of run-off, but it's mostly manageable.
All I ask is that you give us some feedback, as we're trying to get a bit of momentum going in the deep South!
Pete
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Nipped to long tor on the sunday to check it out. Scared myself a little when i decided to try and get from the boltest buttress to the buttress furthest right by traversing along the mud/brambles/nettles at the base of the rock. a bit of a slip would have made for a interesting series of short falls. There is a interesting looking cave between the 2 i saw. was gonna check it out but i've seen to many horror films to fall for that one. The boltest and the 8a's looked good. but the entire crag was as wet as a very very wet thing, and as such looked less inspiring than im sure it is. Looking forward to getting on some of the routes when its dry.
Had a look at masson lees as well. which additionally was very wet. Has anyone else seen that project at the back of the crag under the rooves (which appears to start up a set of artificial holds? Will it actually go? or is it an aid line ?
Cheers
Tim
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Hi Tim. Yeah re Long Tor, the odd heavy rain bursts have caused problems this last week and continue to do so. Masson Lees was getting there last week, but yes has crapped out for a bit. Better weather after this weekend will rapidly improve things on those crags.I will keep updating condition info as quick as I can, but, as yet we're not getting enough people here to get an overview.
Some new info - been climbing on High Tor every day this week and missed most of the rain. We do seem to get a bit less rain down here in the South, though. Some new stuff there now - no seepage and brilliant climbing. A 6C+ warm up, a 7b'ish and a 7b+'ish. Pump out the Squealies in good condition, but Squeezing.. and Limelight too wet. Contrary to my my info about the approach route up Skylight - not needed now. You will not need to take trad gear at all. Wile e Coyote and High Torquing good condition too. High Torquing had only it's second ascent in the newly bolted state last week and was thought to be excellent by the climber. Get there!
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Tim that thing at masson in the cave is a dry tooling route project! Pity about Long Tor for you, i reckon though that this weekend/next week it will be worth a look.
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Don't forget, Long Tor in pretty good condition and High Tor perfect. Loads of good sport there.Jon and I are goingto clean and equip a simple approach route to the cave area, to avoid having to do the Skylight approach.
I think I say you on it the other day, how wet did you get?
PS Isn't it a shame you virtually never see anyone on High Tor these days?
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Are Plight of the rich and Light and Shade the two 7b/ish things?
Where abouts is the 6c+. Is this from ground level to the cave?
Looking forward to getting down there and checking these out, lets hope for a some good weather this weekend!
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Hi mate hope to see you there over the weekend. PotR is the 6c+, and L&S 7a+. I also added a harder start to L&S yesterday at about 7b/+. Really good warm ups for the harder stuff.
The route up to the cave is a doddle, about 5+ or something. A bit dirty at present though, but will clean up nicely. :)
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Don't forget, Long Tor in pretty good condition and High Tor perfect. Loads of good sport there.Jon and I are goingto clean and equip a simple approach route to the cave area, to avoid having to do the Skylight approach.
I think I say you on it the other day, how wet did you get?
PS Isn't it a shame you virtually never see anyone on High Tor these days?
We've been up there 3 days running, doing this stuff. Does anybody know anything about the origins of a line Jon bolted and climbed at 7b/+, which is between Light and Shade and Pump out the Squealies. Got 2 pegs in it, but I've drawn a total blank on its' history. It makes an excellent alternative start to Light...With regard to the weather, we've been lucky to miss all the heavy showers that have been around until Wednesday. Got a bit delayed cleaning the new approach route and got pi**ed on walking out. Luckier than some guys who'd just turned up to do a trad route. I think it was the clink of the heavy metal that brought it on!
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What time are the sport routes on high tor in shade? Quite fancy a day there at the weekend, but don't wan't to bake if it's hot.
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What time are the sport routes on high tor in shade? Quite fancy a day there at the weekend, but don't wan't to bake if it's hot.
They'll be in the shade all morning and the sun all afternoon.
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:dance1: Hi Jon, hopefully the weather will settle down for a bit?
With regard to conditions in Summer, I must admit, with the weather being like it has been, we've not had to consider the possibility of being too hot yet!!
However, with crag facing more or less to the West, the sun drifts round the crag from right to left, which means the Cave area and Left Wing stay shaded a bit longer than Main face.
I don't think you'd see sun until early afternoon and it's a bit later when it's 'full on'. By that time, the sun's 'cooled' down a bit (if you see what I mean?) so being too hot shouldn't be a problem.
Also, with it being elevated above the valley floor, the air's more refreshing too, reducing humidity although, interestingly now I think of it, we've never really suffered from strong winds (well, of the meteorological variety) when we've been there during the Winter months.
You know, the more I advertise this place, the more I realise what a f***ing great crag High Tor (the combination of quality sport and trad is unique? - probably not!) and what an interesting menu for climbing there is in the area generally. Get some of your Sheffield mates down here.
I'll be up that way today and will post info on conditions on Long Tor and Squeezing..., Limelight, as there was some seepage down those lines the other day. I think it'll be gone by Saturday though.
There's loads of seepage free stuff, with a good range of grades for most climbers now, on the Tor, surely!
Hope that reassures you and anybody else - don't blame me if it rains though. I'm good, but not that god (that wasn't a typo)!
BTW, those drill bits are much better - get loads more holes out of them. Has Jon told you he rebolted Entree (2 Tier) last week. We'll get onto more down there, how's the Cornice coming on anybody?
Regards, Pete
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What time are the sport routes on high tor in shade? Quite fancy a day there at the weekend, but don't wan't to bake if it's hot.
They'll be in the shade all morning and the sun all afternoon.
Dave, have you checked your email this morning. I sent you some info earlier?
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Cheers pete. Will see if I can rustle up a team.
Glad to hear about Entree, quality route. Need to find more people like Jon who are psched to get involved in the bolting. Spoke to Kristian last night. He's made a list of what needs doing re-doing at the cornices. I'll Pm Jon about stuff and then do a PBF update thread.
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Cheers pete. Will see if I can rustle up a team.
Glad to hear about Entree, quality route. Need to find more people like Jon who are psched to get involved in the bolting. Spoke to Kristian last night. He's made a list of what needs doing re-doing at the cornices. I'll Pm Jon about stuff and then do a PBF update thread.
Cool, that'll be really useful. Jon and others like him deserve the support of the sport climbing community. There's plenty of 'consumers' out there, but not that many 'manufacturers', if you get my drift?
Need to start gathering the momentum now!
By the way, have you been following the UKClimbing thread about the Bolt Funds?
I hope we can keep things simple, 'cos I don't believe in politics. Too many vested interests for my liking!!!
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Glad to hear about Entree, quality route. Need to find more people like Jon who are psched to get involved in the bolting. Spoke to Kristian last night. He's made a list of what needs doing re-doing at the cornices. I'll Pm Jon about stuff and then do a PBF update thread.
Cool
is there a current thread about rebolted routes? or are details on rebolted routes posted anywhere like rockfax or ukc?
cheers
Tim
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:-\ That's what Bonjoy's talking about Tim. We all realise that there IS a need to tie in a developments information point of some sort, covering ongoing developments. I know Bonjoy is looking at that. If you've been following the UKClimbing thread, you'll realise that, unfortunately as always there's more to it than you'd think at first glance! I can see that you are a potential consumer of the exciting new routes and rebolting/retrobolting being done and that's encouraging to hear. I appreciate that all you want is the relevant info for planning your climbing time and to know that, if you turn up to a crag in the area, you can be sure that the routes you want to do WILL be in a proper state. Don't forget, we do like to climb a bit ourselves and all this work takes time, energy and (DON"T FORGET) money from our resources. I guess I'm putting the background to you in order to say "Have you, or your friends got any relevant skills, interests, equipment, time etc. that you feel able to input to the process?" That may be simply the willingness to spread positiveness and info among your own climbing community, or it may be contacts in commerce and industry, or web skills....anything that will support the job would be useful.
Also, the money in the Bolt Fund pot won't cover more that a fraction of what needs doing, so he bottom line is "Everybody who sport climbs in the Peak District please donate".
Tim and anybody else reading this, please don't take any of this as criticism of those not into the mechanics of the rebolting process. Like climbers, if we had too many actual rebolters there'd be no room to fit em all in on our relatively limited crags!
Regards, Pete
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dude ive been contributing to the peak bolt fund by direct debit since the bank account was set up.
unfortunately i dont live in the peak and have little time off work which i try to spend climbing. (poor excuse i know) would like to be more active in the bolting arena but think it will be a work/location circumstances change before this occurs.
cheers
Tim
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That's cool Tim and the work/play issue is a perfectly valid one. I wasn't directing the comment about donating at you, or others specifically - it was more of an appeal to the general climbing public! When I next visit the North Wales sport, I'll be more than glad that I'm climbing on their up to date gear, so well done everybody who participates in the overall effort in one way or another.
Hope you do make it to our area soon Tim, weather permitting you'll have a great time!
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Good to see you chaps yesterday. Hope Jon got on alright on the proj. I had a tough time on L&S, couldn't reach the juggy break at the start and spent a lot of time trying to boulder this move out, to no avail, then kept slipping off the smear on the move to the good flake. Good route though. Keen to go back when it's less hot and wet.
The bolting was fine, but on PotR I did think an extra one between the first and second would be good. Currently a fall just before the second would land you on the ledge. It felt a touch gnarly with the holds being a bit wet in the back. I thought L&S would be at least 7b+ if you can't reach between the undercuts and the break at the start, it's a hard boulder prob. Didn't this move used to get done off a pile of rocks? Might be worth finding a suitably large flat block and leaving it under the roof for shorties to use, as this move is way harder than the rest of the route and spoils it a bit.
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Yeah, it was nice to see the routes getting some attention. Agree with what you said re extra bolt on Plight... Also, I can't see any alternative way of getting round that start on Light and Shade, although isn't it possible to hang the bolt in order to reach the jugs? Next time we're on those 'warm up routes' we're going to belay from the path at the bottom, although would have to pull the rope through for Plight....
Jon's project is a tough one - got a looong reach from an undercut to a poor pocket to get on the upper wall. Still gotta work out how to set up for that. Could be longer term, but hope not.
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Did Plght of the Rich and Light and Shade last night. Plight of the Rich definately feels a lttle scary going for the 2nd bolt as you (or atleast I did) have your feet quite high and bunched up.
I pulled on the bolt for Light and Shade while Tim lanked it.
Both good fun! Wil E next
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Hey dude, sorry we didn't join you last night. Glad to hear you enjoyed the routes, i will whack another bolt in Potr next time i'm there. To get the full tick on L&S though you've got to find a midgets sequence to boulder out that start ;D
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Did Plght of the Rich and Light and Shade last night. Plight of the Rich definately feels a lttle scary going for the 2nd bolt as you (or atleast I did) have your feet quite high and bunched up.
I pulled on the bolt for Light and Shade while Tim lanked it.
Both good fun! Wil E next
Dave, Must be that big Ible lunch that Tim had the other day that keeps him growing!! What did you reckon to the quality of climbing? That bit of pocketed wall above he ledge on POTR is great, but I'm interested, how did you do the move off the footledge to the bigger pocket? It's a really long reach from the smaller pocket below OR did you step up and left onto a good foothold and then work right to the pocket? Also, don't you think the climbing on L&S from the double hand jug is just fabulous? Admittedly, it's a bit scrappy just below the lower off, but even that's not bad. I think it's 2*.
Paid a brief visit to Long Tor early evening today. 2 guys down from Sheffield working The Boltest. The crag will soon be bone dry, although Pistol Fingers is just about the only route you would have real dampness problems on (at the top). We'll be back there tomorrow if anybody's interested - it's a brilliant crag for the hot weather, when High Tor would be too hot.
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Yeah I found the move off the ledge on PofR quite hard. After much faffing I used a small right hand crimp and poor left hand layaway, stepped my left foot high and reached over with my right for the higher left hand layaway pocket thing, matched that (felt hard) then reached back right to the good pocket and up to the better holds. Hope that makes sense. How do you do it?
LandS is good, really enjoyed the climbing before and up the flake. 2*'s seems fair. The only thing that spoilt it slightly, as Bonjoy suggested , was having to pull on the bolt to get to the starting hold. Reckon I'll go back and try bouldering it out at some point when the sun isn't setting.
Cheers for the pics of Pump out the Squealies but I've not been unable to unzip the files, its asking for a password!? Any idea's? Reckon I'm probably just being useless.
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Sounds complicated, but I kind of get what you're saying. Jon, as he does quite often, being blessed with a long reach and the finger strength to make good use of it, just latches the 'poor' crimp and goes through to the good pocket. I don't find the footholds that helpful there and struggle. So I'm with you on method, kind of! You'll have to try the 'indirect' start to L&S (as yet unnamed), coming in from the right. It's solid 7b (+)?, but more in keeping with the rest of the route. We always said it was a better start to the route, in that it misses out that really hard 'boulder problem' take-off. Pity it joins the route above most of the 7a+ climbing bit. Incidentally, I think (although we haven't had a look) that this start would link into Pump... giving a slightly easier alternative to the crux start to that route? Great climbing on all the routes though. How was the seepage drying on Squeezing... and Limelight? I'd think it would be not far off dry??
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Hi Pete, I agree with you that Lorry Park could do with a makeover but I'm not sure that should include retro bolting the crack lines. Their probably unclimable in there current condition in fact I think theres a rather large bush growing in one crack line. Last time I paid a visit got molested by some travellers dogs, I reckon your best approaching from the DCC car park round the back of John Hadfield House instead of running the gauntlet.
Ian was keen to do the cracks a few years back (trad of course) not sure if he got round to it due to their state.
Is bend tor on your adgenda as well ?
All the best MarkL
Mark, I think I'm going to 'go for it' soon, as word has it that the Lee brothers are quite happy with the proposition and, let's face it, the routes stand a lot more chance of getting done as cleaned, more often climbed sport routes. For the benefit of the vast majority of modern day climbers (and there re plenty of dedicated trad enthusiasts who make use of and enjoy the alternatives, as vice versa!) isn't that potential better than their prospect as trad routes? I'm flagging this up, as I do respect the interest you've got in the place. I think I've still got your number and will try to contact soon. Regards, Pete
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Paid a brief visit to Long Tor early evening today. 2 guys down from Sheffield working The Boltest.
Not just working... we both just managed the redpoint before dark (with Reeve's ascent being not far from in the dark) ;D Wicked route, definitely a fair bit easier for those of us blessed with lank. Good to meet you, even if we didn't connect the person to the ukb persona.
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Damn!
I wish I could contribute to this thread; I was born in Belper. Is there any slate here?
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Not just working... we both just managed the redpoint before dark (with Reeve's ascent being not far from in the dark) ;D Wicked route, definitely a fair bit easier for those of us blessed with lank. Good to meet you, even if we didn't connect the person to the ukb persona. Likewise, I'd seen your earlier posts on this thread, so didn't know you were following up your interest. Aaah - the power of advertising!! If you want any more info on the area, just post it up. See you both around.
:thumbsup: Awesome stuff - glad you got it. Makes the visit extra worthwhile. Thanks to Bonjoy for the work he put into the crag to kick-start the re-development. He knows a good crag when he sees it! I'd seen your posts previously, so it's good that you followed up your interest in the area. Aaaah - the power of advertising! We're just keen to the area recognised on the sport scene, for the quality routes around. See you around.
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Damn!
I wish I could contribute to this thread; I was born in Belper. Is there any slate here?
Hiya. Any chance you went to school here - if so, we've met! There is loads of slate in the area, as you well know from having lived here. Trouble is it's all on house roofs (ha ha!). Seriously, strangely enough the climbing on Long Tor IS very much like steep slate - small, flat but positive fingerholds. Long time since I've climbed in the Llanberis quarries, but we're both keen to get back there. Pardon my ignorance, but have you been involved in the re-developments in North Wales? Don't :lol:if that's an understatement.
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Ah . . . Yes I did school somewhere in Derbyshire (well, a bit, but that was 30 years ago and I've long forgotten the name).
No, I'm nothing to do w/ redeveloping Welsh slate.
Sorry, nothing much to add to the thread, just a bit nostalgic for a nice area really . . .
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Yeah, coming from Lincolnshire, where I grew up, to Derbyshire and discovering climbing a long time ago, I was quickly hooked.
Nice to hear from you - thanks for the support and enjoy your climbing wherever that may be!
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UPDATE INFO: The awesome recent weather has really got the crags down here into shape and there's not many problems to report.
Few of us been on Long Tor today and it was brilliant. Perfect temperature, given the hot weather. The recently re-bolted Future Primitive had a clean-up and was repeated by Jon Clark and (nearly) by Mark Richardson. Seriously, this is an excellent route - at a not straightforward 7b (possibly+) a real classic of the grade! Not long but eye-balls out the whole way - difficult to on-sight unless you've got loads in reserve. Get on it and give me some feedback.
Did a load of ledge cleaning as well, to offer more pleasant and easy access to the right side. Looking a lot better already. All routes do-able now and a desperate project on the way with 3/4 other new routes in the offing, mostly shorter, but good warm-ups. In its maturity, there'll be a really good progression of grades from 6c to (eventually, all being well) 8b/c here. I'll put up a link to some pictures soon, to give you the feel of the place.
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Hi Pete, It was House Of Commons Crag that I did a lot of gardening at, not Lorry Park that was next on the list but circumstances meant I didn't get round to it, although after a bit of wandering I did locate some ab points.
I did visit last week what a mess at the bottom by the containers, I did park at the far end of the dcc car park past the garage your out of site of any buildings their plus shorter walk in.
If your prepared to put the work and money in Pete then go for it regards regearing, I just have some inherent dislike about seeing E2 cracks with bomber placements bolted up, but your right about them being dirty and unclimable at the moment. If you want to take over the crag database role also thats fine with me.
I've just moved house to Rowsley so you probably haven't got my number but carry on the good work, i'll be able to keep an eye on you from my office window at County Hall, wishing I was fit enough to do the routes.
Been doing more cycling than climbing recently have the Fred Whiiton in the lakes this sunday.
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Cheers for the feedback Mark. I think I got the idea you'd put the time in at Lorry Park from a misinterpretation of something Ian M said. Yeah I've been in not long ago and was appalled at the mess. Not sure what's going on with the containers. They used to be full of motorbike parts didn't they? I'll have a look at your access method, thanks. The place isn't top of my priority list, but I do intend to get it sorted as and when. At the moment we're working on Newbridge buttress down the road, as that will more easily provide 6/7 worthwhile, more or less clean and seepage free middle grade (apart from Malcolm Taylor's 7b+ ish) routes. It'll make for a good day on its' own!
I do know a bit about the Fred Whitton, having been into cycling myself for a while, when I got too knackered up to run marathons any more (2 hrs: 34mins At Nottingham being my best) although I never did it. It might not be climbing specific fitness, but if your fit enough to survive that then your doing OK. Don't stray from the fold for too long. I'll keep you updated and yes would be glad to look after the moderation for Lorry Park.
Good luck the w/e. Pete
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Help me out with Future Primitive. Is the the thing further up the bank from the main the wall? If so where is Scum Manifesto? Looking forward to checking this out.
Got on Wil E today. Very very good route if a little painful on the fingers. Jon, agree with you that its no easier than High Torquing.
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Yeah future primitive is up the ledges, a few metres to the right of pistol fingers. Its pretty good, and quite sustained.
Glad you like Wil E. Coyote, i love the pockets on the lower wall & the mono undercut - ouch! The upper wall is tricky as well, and quite pumpy isn't it? I take it you didn't send it then? You'll soon have done everything at High Tor, i'll have to get you on Limelight soon. ::)
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Hi Dave.
Are you still interested in having a go at equipping? The stuff we're doing on Newbridge Buttress (only got Malcolm's route done so far) would be ideal for training/practice as you could ab down alongside to see how it's done. You could then have a go, straight, away at bolting the next route yourself and even test your newly learned skills by climbing the route afterwards. If you took a Desmond (Decker) 'cos of bolt failure, it'd mean you'd done it wrong and have to start again! :spank: Thru bolting's pretty straightforward and should be the first thing to learn before resin bolting. Because this crag stays pretty dry, we're just using 10mm, non-stainless. Anyway, let me know and we'll arrange a get together.
You can't miss Future Primitive 'cos it's the last route on that section of crag. As I've said, we're looking at a line between Pistol Fingers and that, as well as 2 perhaps 3 others further right, but before the corner. Quite small (3 bolts to lower off?) but good climbing for warm-ups. Probably easier grades but typical of the climbing there, so you can get into the groove.
Incidentally, thinking of soon bolting up Jade (7a), an old (Paul?) Mitchell route with fixed gear in it mostly. With a start up Rinsemeal to get into the groove line, it would give another excellent sport route and give another easier route for us mere mortals to get on.
Also going to replace the old pegs on Tatanka Yotanka (7a) with bolts in sensible places to finish this section of the crag completely. So, NO trad gear needed (for just one route, Jade, on a sport crag, why bother?) and ALL the old pegs replaced for safety! Just the tree 'trimming' and ledge clearance to finish and the place will look (more than) 20 years younger - wish I was!
Pete
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I dogged my way up it the sun, took a while to work out how to get to, and go past, the mono undercut. Great climbing! I cleaned it on the way down but then top roped in one go from Roadrunner to M1. Red point atempt to follow soon.
Im up for learning to bolt and helping re-equip. Off to Yorks next weekend but have a week on Tues off. Jon, are you still up for something then?
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Yeah i am, drop me a txt or something if i don't see you before.
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;D Hard new route at Long Tor quarry.
Jon got the redpoint today on the line to the right of Pistol Fingers at something like 7c+. Three tough, sequency sections and a hard finish.
No name for it yet, it really is an excellent route. But don't just take my word for it - come and do it. It'd be good to see somebody going for the repeat soon.
Bolted up the next line, to the right of Future Primitive and there's 2 more to come, on the right before the wall craps out.
The ongoing ledge cleaning is transforming the place rapidly and I'm gonna trim a few tree branches overhanging the crag to let more light in.
A photo topo in on the way and it'll boast 16 great routes just on that one section of wall - brilliant!
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Good work Jon! And at an affordable grade too. I was expecting it to be harder than PF. How is it for reachyness (have vague recollection of big move for a ledge)? Might have a do on it next week.
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Good work Jon! And at an affordable grade too. I was expecting it to be harder than PF. How is it for reachyness (have vague recollection of big move for a ledge)? Might have a do on it next week.
:alky: On Jon's behalf (he's at work), cheers Jon (shit, it's confusing - can one of you change your name?). Jon thought it might be as hard (...as Pistol Fingers), as it took just about as much working out.
However, the actual exeution of the moves on the red-point were slightly easier. So, it's the old technicality versus physicality conundrum - how to make realistic comparative grades. It's definitely more technical, but perhaps less physically demanding in the power/strength endurance area than PF. However, as I've said to Jon, don't forget he's at least 12 feet tall and has a reach that nearly matches Keenos. He graded it for his ascent and I suspect that some other would be ascentionists would either have to perform a number of feet off dynamic moves to small crimps or find different sequences for each section! Not sure which ledge you mean - the better hold in the middle zone is useful, but not a ledge, although it's not a big reach to get it and if you mean the final hold, yes there's a big gap to cross before you land it!
Incidentally and I hope you do get down here again (it'll be well worth your time) I won't give you beta, unless you ask, but you will probably want to extend the second and third clips.
Hope that's been useful and we/me/Jon would be happy to join you if your on your own - just get in touch, we're not far away from Matlock.
Hey, Stu Littlefair was talking about a visit wasn't he. That'd be cool as well!
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:bounce:Just an update on stuff at long Tor. If you do happen to go in you'll see the 3 lines right of Pistol Fingers bolted up now. The furthest right of the three, a crackline has been led (although we think it may well have been climbed before) at something like 6b/c. Short (4 bolts) but fairly continuous at the grade - a good climb in its' own right, but also an excellent warm-up route for harder stuff.
The line just right of Pistol Fingers is not far off, but a broken hold and split fingers caused a temporary setback. Essentially, the bottom part provides an easier entry to a hard 'boulder problem' finish. Not exactly a warp-up! The middle one has yet to be cleaned, but looks very much like it should be a slightly easier Future Primitive.
Finally thanks to Lee (who called in for a look in on Sunday) for the offer of some help with the Long Tor 'make-over'. Send me some contact details, Lee and I'll get back to you.
Long Tor is bone dry now and with the work Bonjoy and co. did a while back and the work being done now (the improved access to the routes, which is coming on nicely, the tree pruning, extra routes and the quality steep face climbs to be had), as well as the developments on High Tor, the area boasts nearly 30 brilliant sport routes and can't be dismissed as a backwater of hard climbing - it's most definitely mainstream! :bounce:
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Great stuff. I do hope LTQ gets lots of attention this year, it's a great crag with unique climbing, akin to steep slate. Plus it's allways out of the sun and dry in all but torrential rain.
If the weather stays as it is Thor's Cave will be on the cards very soon, if it isn't already dry!
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Have you been in to Thors recently? I wondered what it would be like.
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Not this year. Was at nearby Doveholes in Dovedale yesterday, the innards of that cave looked pretty dry so I'd guess Thor's was too. I'd imagine Thormen's would still have some wet pockets but everything else would be just about dry.
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If you do happen to go in you'll see the 3 lines right of Pistol Fingers bolted up now.
The line just right of Pistol Fingers is not far off, but a broken hold and split fingers caused a temporary setback
Pete - did you mean Future Primative - rather than Pistol Fingers - in the above sentences?
I think we need a topo to clear up any confusion....!
Neil
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:whistle: yeah, sorry Neil - the one to the right of Pistol Fingers is Jon's completed new route, which he's named Exit Wound (I think). The one I was referring to is the next one along from Future Primitive. That and two other uncompleted lines to the right, when they are done (which will be soon) will see a great collection of 16 quality routes on the wall.
I've got a phototopo nearing completion and, by the way, Gary's offered to put details on his www.sportsclimbs.co.uk (http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk) site soon.
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Looks like Gary's updated his site, here you go:
http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/mainpages/peak/Long%20Tor%20Quarry%20Topo.htm
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Cool its come out pretty well. Should help people who haven't been before because it can be quite confusing. :great:
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Great Topo to LTQ, well psyched to get there next week sometime, will be sure to post feedback.... good work guys :great:
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Great Topo to LTQ, well psyched to get there next week sometime, will be sure to post feedback.... good work guys :great:
:) Hey, cheers dude - thanks for that. This is no bullshit - it's a great place for anybody wanting quality hard middle to upper grade zone crimpy climbing, with several easier, but tasty morsels thrown in for good measure. Called in this evening (after work) to do a bit more ledge digging at the top end and it's really paying off. I'm happy to put the time in, but it would be nice to see people making good use of the place.
Reccomend warm up on Orcadian..., followed by Sac du Sable (slightly easier technically but...), then Future Primitive for starters. None of these pushovers for the grade to onsight and, in all, a days climbing for a lot of people! Don't forget Tatanka..., which is a juggy stamina-fest (as well as the other 'morsels' at less than 7b) and then go for bigger stuff. The Boltest is one of the best routes you'll find at the grade anywhere and, above that - Ruby.., Pistol.., Mosey on Down the old Crow Road. Exit Wounds could prove very tough indeed and hasn't had a repeat yet!
Bear in mind Jade not actually been retro-ed yet, as Jon and I are trying to remove the overhanging block from the top of the groove first.
Get some mates down there with you, spread the word and don't forget the incredible sport routes on High Tor. I'm sworn to secrecy re a brilliant new and long 6c+ sport route up there, so can't say any more!
By the way, have you been into Masson Lees yet. It's being gradually re-equipped with glue-ins and bosts a stack of middle to harder grade routes, which are in great condition now. Great place for stamina sessions for upper grade climbers, the record being 15 in a session (on the Black/Overhanging walls) at present.
Message to self - Shut up Pete!!
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:please:Bonjoy, how about updating the UKC route database for Long Tor?
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Update - went in early this morning and managed to get big overhanging block off the top off Jade. Best trundle I've had in a long time - BANG!!!
Jade to be bolted and re-climbed asap - it's now 2 metres longer. As an added bonus, Bonjoys' Pistol Fingers looks better now, as it's got
extra space to the left of it at the top and looks much more open. Keep you posted.
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Good work! That block was a death trap. Does it alter the end of rinsemeal?
I'll update logbook when I get a chance
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Good work! That block was a death trap. Does it alter the end of rinsemeal?
I'll update logbook when I get a chance
Hi Jon. Yeah the block was completely detached and basically glued to the corner by its' own weight. Would probably have stayed in place for a while yet, but I certainly feel better about going under it.
Nothing's changed on Rinsemeal. The block just caught the edge of the arete lower down, but no probs. Jon Clark said he stuck his left foot on the side of the block while clipping lower-off on Pistol Fingers, but that was only 'cos it was there and will be fine without. Pistol seems much more 'open' at the top now, if you see what I mean.
Jade actually looks like a classic open book corner bridging exercise and will now go right to the top. Not bolted yet, but it will by very soon.
By the way Jon put extra bolts on the traverse of Tatanka in place of the pegs. They've now all gone.
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:oops:I forgot to say, Crystaline turned out to be much more amenable than I thought and is a lovely little climb at a friendly 6b+/c'ish grade.
There's plenty of 'warm-up' stuff now, but good routes in their own right!
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Does anyone know if long tor, in particular the boltest is likely to have survived last nights drenching?
cheers
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Does anyone know if long tor, in particular the boltest is likely to have survived last nights drenching?
cheers
Can't say as yet, but prob gonna call in there this afternoon (to bolt Jade, hopefully). Will post details asap.
Also may call in at Turkey Dip to see what that's like. Don't forget the High Tor sport dries out faster than most places too.
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Has anyone been up on house of commons butress recently? I remember there being a couple of worthwhile short and bouldery things which would probably benefit from traffic.
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Has anyone been up on house of commons butress recently? I remember there being a couple of worthwhile short and bouldery things which would probably benefit from traffic.
Yeah it's still there and does have some decent climbing on it, roped and bouldering style. If it wasn't so tucked away in the trees it would get visited but as it is???
Can't make up my mind - may well have a serious look, later this year, to see if it's worth the time, effort and money.
Bend Tor's another local crag with some good routes on it and a few extra possibilities.
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Does anyone know if long tor, in particular the boltest is likely to have survived last nights drenching?
cheers
:dance1:Just got back from Long Tor and all routes from the left up to and includingg Exit Wounds are bone dry. A little dampness in odd patches, but looks like no route holds affected.
Pretty dismal in there, but with this shit weather who cares, at least you can climb! In fact Duncan and Graham turned up as we were leaving and were well chuffed to be getting
some climbing in. High Tor was in the clouds, literally.
Jade has now been bolted!! It's in absolutely top class condition, but we didn't climb it today. It looks like there's 2 starts to it.
The indirect is to climb Rinsemeal (clipping the first 2 bolts of that, then a new bolt in bottom of groove) to get onto and around the arete into the groove. The other direct way is straight up
(via the 2 new bolts below the groove) to the break and then straight into the groove. Will do both ways and let you know, but if anybody gets on it before us, just post the beta.
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>:( Oh my god! How wet has it been the last 2 days? Pretty crapped out everywhere. Interestingly Long Tor Quarry lasted the first days soaking by Wednesday, but with the continuing rain had crapped out by Thursday morning.
Called in to have a look on way home tonight and it was 50% dry. Doesn't get sun so will take a day or two of dry weather to get on form. High Tor had dried out pretty well (as always) and a team on Main Face, but sport stuff seemed generally dry, with nobody on it as per norm!!
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Conditions update - Been climbing at Turkey Dip during last 2 days. It's survived the wetting well and should continue to do so.
Jon's nearly got one of his hard projects done - a real gymnastic stamina-fest on good holds!
Plenty of High Tor sport OK. Long Tor pretty good, but with the weather crapping out tonight it's gonna suffer!
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Started some re-bolting work and cleaning at lorry park quarry recently. Today i re-bolted The Squealer (7c) and also cleaned it thoroughly - took about 4 hours! :lol: i must say it is an absolutely awesome route, just as good as the boltest at long tor i think. It's also very long, at least 25m with 10 clips! Got my psyche on to do all the other routes there soon! Its a sadly neglected place but hopefully we can change that a bit, i think its just as good as Long Tor down the road. :great:
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Nice one, have always fancied doing Squealer!
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:thumbsup:Been in Lorry Park tonight - more or less bone dry!
Edge of Darkness (6c*) done, Supercrack (7a+/b**) done and Squealer (7c+***) done.
The latter, a particularly fine flash effort by Jon and a real classic battle!!
Can't offer enough superlatives about this route, but all 3 top class. Pictures to be posted soon on UKClimbing.
Trad the cracks if you like (we've got them more or less clean), clip them up, or do both styles (the choice is yours).
Had a visitor in tonight, who was in with Pete Cresswell in '98 and promised to be back soon to enjoy - good on ya! Forgot to ask your name, but get in touch.
More work to follow on other routes - plenty there for everybody. Get in there and enjoy.
We've been using the 'rear entry' approach via John Hadfield House, during the day, but bear in mind they do put the barriers up in the evening,
so use the shitty approach from the entrance nearer M. Bath if staying later.
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(http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=89059)
Jade getting an ascent lsat weekend.
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(http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=89059)
Jade getting an ascent lsat weekend.
:great: Hi Dave. Met a guy from Wirksworth at Lorry Park yesterday, who knew you and he said you'd been at Long Tor last Saturday.
Mentioned that you'd been trying Tatanka, but wet holds causing problems? Didn't say anything about Jade though - well done.
C'mon International man of Mystery, let's hear a bit more about it - which entry to groove, what were the moves like into the groove and so on? Grade?
Bet it's been a long time since it was last done. Are you up for Lorry Park this weekend. Been cleaning/drilling today. You'd wet yourself over Squealer - brilliant line!
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2553463497_53af1dcf3d.jpg)
Jade was good, from the break we came over with left hand to good hold in the arete, right above that to a crimp right of the arete, left up to an edge on the wall then rocked up with right foot on the good left hand hold to the slopy stuff and into the grove. Is this how you do it?
Tatanka was wet in the middle, The Boltest was dry which did'nt stop me falling from the top twice, next time.
Hope to be out Sat, Lorry park sounds good but also tempted to go and get the tick on The Boltest. Let me know what you and Jon are up to.
Good work again!
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:kiss2: Dave, nice picture actually - why don't you post it on UKClimbing DBase (Lorry Park). I've put a couple of pictures on there tonight.
Listen, we didn't get round to doing Jade 'cos the weather crapped out, but very keen now. What F grade?
Tough luck on Boltest - yeah get it asap. Long Tor/Lorry Park/High Tor so close together, you could have plenty 'on the go', between the three!
Will contact Friday, be nice to get together this weekend.
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Sorry Dave I meant Long Tor for picture
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2553463497_53af1dcf3d.jpg)
I notice there's a draw on Pistol Fingers. Someone trying it?
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Hadn't spotted that. Had a look in today and still some seepage from the last soaking - not too bad.
Been to Lorry Park again to find some ba***rd had nicked my pruning saw and used it to chop 10m off the end of
a hanging rope I'd left in yesterday. Some guys working on the mess left in the entrance way I think. :spank:
Jon resin bolted Hell's Angels all the way, ready for Sunday hopefully.
He also repeated Squealer Indirect (7b), which starts up Supercrack and traverses across to join Squealer just before the
tough moves to reach the halfway rest. Be useful for anyone not able to do the full Squealer crux section.
Should have Thunder Road bolted for Sunday too.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2553463497_53af1dcf3d.jpg)
I notice there's a draw on Pistol Fingers. Someone trying it?
The draw was in from tatanka. Not been on Pistol fingers yet but its def on the to do list.
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Update on Lorry Park - Thunder Road 6c cleaned, bolted and climbed Sunday - excellent.
Hell's Angels cleaned and climbed. Re-bolting and cleaning going at a pace and new routes on the way.
Absolutely bone dry. Sun in morning, shaded mid-day on with a nice breeze yesterday.
Have a look on http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/craginfo.html?id=1169 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/crags/craginfo.html?id=1169) for piccies (if you've not seen yet) - more going on soon.
Between High Tor (shade in morning) and Lorry Park (the opposite), climbers could get out the sun all day,
or in the sun all day as conditions dictate. Of course Long Tor/Turkey Dip shaded all day and now in excellent condition.
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Nice one, have always fancied doing Squealer!
Here's a pic bonjoy to wet the appetite! ;D
http://img.ukclimbing.com/i/89765.jpg
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Nice!
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Nice!
:dance1:
There's even more tasty goodies on offer - best NEW Peak District sport route (only new sport route?) of the year, so far!!
Update - Today, Jon completed his new line between On the Road and Squealer, called Ground Zero at about 9 bolts, 25m+ 7c?? ***.
I looked up this fantastic wall a couple of years ago and was convinced there would be something there.
Recently managed to convince Jon and, with a sustained cleaning/bolting effort, between the two of us and great climbing from Jon, it's now done!
Similar in style to Squealer, with an intricate and crimpy bottom half to the same resting holds and, where Squealer escapes rightwards, a brutal uncompromisingly direct finish.
We've put a double ring lower off at the resting holds, as the bottom half makes for an ace pitch on its' own and well worth doing.
Mix the bottom/top halves of Ground Zero/Squealer and you've got two more top quaiity routes/eliminates - awesome!
More NEW stuff to come (some, but not all as hard!) and cleaning/retro/rebolting going well. Any help offers welcome.
Make me happy by getting in there. You will not go away disappointed - guaranteed.
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:great:
Update on Lorry Park stuff - Good Time Emporium (7b) and Shore Leave (7a) now resin bolted and cleaned for posterity.
Both ready to climb and enjoy.
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:dance1:
Good to hear, from Jon Clark, that a lot happening at Lorry Park today!! Bonjoy, Lucy C, Neil M, Bill Mc, Matt D, Mark n Rob + a load more (identity unknown) made for more ascents than the place has had in a loooong time.
Wish I could have been there to take pictures (damn)! With the high number of top quality routes and not all higher grade (with more rebolting happening before long and good, new stuff coming soon), there's loads to go at for everybody.
I'd like to say a "job well done" to Dom n Dan, Pete Cresswell, Jon Clark et al for development of the place - you can't beat that first ascent feeling in all honesty!
Finally, remember how shit it was on Saturday? Well Turkey Dip would have been a definite 'goer', when other venues may have crapped out - think about it next time the weather's like that!
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Has anyone established the sport grade of Jade yet. Have changed logbook entry to 7a, but that's a guess. Is it worth stars?
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I reckon its probably 6c bonjoy, you have to do the stiff move at the bottom of rinsemeal first, but after that its pretty easy. Don't think i would give it any stars; just mainly there for completeness.
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Yep, looks as if it should be better than what it actually is. Strangely, it's a prime example of a line that would be more interesting to climb trad - but only if you're into fiddling bits of specifically shaped things into small cracks (hold on, I'm getting a hard-on!). Seriously, this one has been a bit educational for me, in terms of weighing up what makes a worthwhile transition from neglected trad to sport.
NOW, at the moment, what I'm really interested in is knowing what the populace think about the prospect of 'On The Road' at Lorry Park becoming a sport route.
I'm told that there have been a few 'mutterings' of dissent about the retro-ing of the cracks in the quarry, but believe it or not, there were 20+ people at the crag the other day (never been known) and, if it had been bolt equipped, as I'm openly inclined to do, On The Road would have had loads of ascents and been enjoyed by many, that day!
In fact, I know, without reservation, that, bolted, it would be one of the most popular mid-grade lines in the Matlock area, if not the Peak.
However, I know that the popularity argument does not justify going down the bolting route for everything, but I'm torn,at times.
Now, I 'confess' that , having cleaned it, with a view to bolting, I also fancy it as a trad route - but what's the problem in bolting it anyway??
It's a fabulous line (wow factor 10!) but, in terms of tradding, it's got (as I well know, having done it a few times) easy nut/cam placements all the way up it.
What is the trad based argument against bolting it? Is there any greater intrinsic merit (ie for the benefit of our climbing community) in sticking trad gear in to protect the lead, as opposed to clipping pre-placed bolts, or can we not have the choice?
It's already a despoiled piece of rock (via quarrying), as opposed to a 'naturally' exposed bit of rock like High Tor, anyway and offers itself up as a sport venue, so why do I feel dodgy on this one?
Remember, once bolted, you can still trad the route if you want (but don't mix it, for the true experience), as well as choose to sport it but, un-bolted, you cant sport the route etc.
Well, in the great tradition of our sport, I can do what the f**k I want, anyway and await the consequences. I would like a few opinions though!!
:please:
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I think I'd rather do it as a trad route than another clip-up. Maybe that's because it's well within my grade and I'd like it to be more of a challenge.
Now that LPQ is getting a a bit more popular it is possible that On The Road might get the occasional trad ascent. If it's as good as it looks then it might lead to good feedback and more ascents. It would never become as popular as it would if it were bolted, but the few people who did do it would get more out of it then the masses who would if it were another clip up. I think I speak for many climbers when I say that trad climbing a line with bolts in it seems a artificial and unappealling exercise. Routes can be one or the other, but not really both.
I think it doesn't tick enough of the boxes to justify retro bolting, it's doesn't appear loose, dirty, heavily reliant on pegs, lacking natural line or otherwise unappealling as a trad route. It differs from Supercrack, which was not clear cut but a lot more justifiable due to dirtyness and reliance on (defunct) fixed gear. For Supercrack the number of attempts would never have been enough to keep it clean and the pegs would need repeated replacement. But I think OTR maybe falls the wrong side of the line and to bolt it could show a lack of restraint which might then damage the case for targetted retro-bolting more obviously applicable routes (eg. token trad routes on the Cornice - Fey, Shazam, Basic Power Problem; Raven Tor - Obsecene Gesture; some of the obscurer things at Rubicon; and heavilly pegged psuedo trad-routes like Sloe Gin on Plum Buttress and Dancing With Dr D over the road at Bend Tor).
I think at least for now it is worth leaving as is, it does look an amazing route. I might bring some nuts next time i'm there.
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Thanks for that Bonjoy - that's actually a concise, well reasoned argument. Very useful and I have no problem with it.
I'm not sure, but have no experiences to relate to, regarding the 'diminishment of potential trad-climbing enjoyment via having bolts in proximity of trad placements.
Interesting, your comments about '...token/obscure...and heavily pegged pseudo-trad...' and the matching list offered in your reply.
How about I retro-bolt Fey? Done it more than once - excellent, but regrettably not likely be doing it again in my lifetime.
While some took advantage of the situation to climb and enjoy a very attainable classic line, I can well imagine the protest that would arise ('...desecration...etc) from others.
A dilemma, but by letting things stay as they are, without examination, are we sure we're protecting the integrity of our fine traditions or are we just immobilized by inertia? Discuss!
Personally, I think it's a big enough 'issue' to be raised at National level via BMC (but only if you're in to that sort of thing).
Enough of that - any chance Jon and I could borrow the Fostdrill for a while, to supplement our own, in the re-bolting effort, as I'm gonna have more time soon to input over the school hols?
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Fey is a bit of a funny one and perhaps not a good example. A new route (bolts plus one wire needed) goes just right of it and finishes up the same flake i.e does the best looking bit of Fey but via a different start. I made the assumption that Fey was not climbed these days. The fact I'm wrong on that does illustrate that multiple opinions are worth gathering before picking up the drill.
I agree it's a subject worthy of wider debate.
You can borrow the drill. As of Monday I am starting working three day weeks :dance1: and and will be using it frequently, to re-equip stuff and to get people other people up to speed, so the availabilty will be limited. My own Hilti has a duff battery so until I can get a new one we only have the one. Until more people up here are up to speed the drill will be available at least three days a week while I'm at work. Next week that will be Wed-Fri.
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Personally, I think it's a big enough 'issue' to be raised at National level via BMC (but only if you're in to that sort of thing).
I agree it's a subject worthy of wider debate
There was talk of raising this at the next BMC Peak Area meet. I think its fair to say that the current activists weren't around when the old debates were had and the trad/ sport boundaries drawn. I certainly wasn't.
The other point which El Mocho has been banging on about following his recent trips to Pembroke and Cheddar is old pegs. Probably worthy of a debate as well? Consensus down there seems to be heading towards removing them all, and if the routes get harder, so be it.
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Couldn't agree more. I've had 2 accidents were solid appearing pegs have come out upon falling on them. One of them hurt me quite badly. It's not just the look of the peg but the worn nature of the placement after people repeatedly fall on to it.
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I tend to a agree about the pegs, although I'm not sure it would work as a blanket approach for all routes on all rock types. As far as Peak limestone goes I think a lot of the routes with pegs in would be much better without, as either pure trad routes or as sport routes. A lot of the pegs are ugly, dangerous, next to good gear and taint the experience on otherwise trad ground.
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You are of course correct. Each route / peg would have to judged on an individual basis included the ethos of the particular crag. To be fair I was only considering limestone in the discussion, primarily because pegs are few and far between on grit, and have normally been placed because there really isn't anything else there. I guess quaried grit might be a bit of an exception. However, at least with the lime it's acceptable to replace the peg with a bolt ie Hot Fun.
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Re-bolted and cleaned up some of the sport routes at Willersley recently. Tonight i climbed Blessed Are The Weak (7a+) and managed to flash Hallowed Be My Name (7c+). Both routes are really good and well worth doing. Recommend taking a clipstick if anyone goes because the first bolts are quite high to avoid the trad routes.
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Nice one. I remember doing BatW years ago on some terrible bolts with no hangers. Seem to remember the climbing being good enough.
How's it going on the projects?
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The project at Long Tor i filled in the seepage holes with resin, and i reckon it might have done the trick, fingers crossed! Normally it would be seeping now, but its pretty dry still. I've done most of the moves on it, but the first two or three are really hard. I'm interested to know how James got on with this? Did he put any work into it? Guessing at the grade it could potentially be 8b/+??
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I don't think he spent much time on it. He reckoned one bit was going to be very hard indeed, at least font 8a, so probably route 8b+ minimum.
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Climbed BATW last night and really enjoyed it, def a worthwhile route.
Took a look up at crown of thorns on the way past too. It looks to a good piece of rock. Any opinons on re-bolting this? I'm not a 100% on the history, only know whats in the Rockfax guide.
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Nice one. How did you find it? I thought it was quite reachy even for me :) Not the best warm up, but there is quite a good traverse along the bottom of the crag as well. Did you get on Hallowed Be My Name??
I agree crown of thorns looks good, but i think that the bolts would stand out like a sore thumb. I don't know why they were previously stripped years ago though :shrug:
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Climbed BATW last night and really enjoyed it, def a worthwhile route.
Took a look up at crown of thorns on the way past too. It looks to a good piece of rock. Any opinons on re-bolting this? I'm not a 100% on the history, only know whats in the Rockfax guide.
The bolts didn't last very long in COT at all. Shame really as it was superb in line, rock and execution necessary.
My opinion would be to replace the bolts again as it won't get climbed without. I remember the original hard bit was always peg protected anyhow.
Is Mine is the kingdom still climbable - I remember that being good too - probably do with some new bolts.
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Yeah, Mine is the ... well OK and to be bolted soon, giving a decent session between the three.
Crown... is a very good line and am tempted. given the scarcity of regular punters at Willersley these days and YES, like most trad venues, it DOES get some attention.
I'm feeling that we really are well into an opportune period for sensitively bolted regeneration of some sadly neglected 'pseudo-trad' lines in the same vein.
How about a few quality and seriously thought out suggestions? For example, I have a watchful eye for On The Road at Lorry Park (having cleaned it up, with a view to bolting, but leaving it as a result of various things heard and read).
Notably, it's been totally ignored, while most of the other newly rebolted and retrobolted stuff have had more attention in a few weeks than they've had in 15/20 years, or whatever!
Bolted, I guarantee OTR would have more ascents this season than it's ever had (cos it's a brilliant mid-grade line). Leave things alone and it'll get a range of zero to three ascents in the next 5 years, if that.
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Nice one. How did you find it? I thought it was quite reachy even for me :)
Didnt find it too reachy but used a really poor right hand crimp, was'nt the easiest of moves. Really enjoyed the climbing. I tried Hallowed and found that very reachy!!! Are you spaning from the big undercut by the first bolt to the good pocket/slot in the distance?
I too would lean towards replacing the bolts in CofT. It looks great and cant of been climbed since the bolts were removed, can it? The only problem, as Jon pointed out, is the bolts may be obvious and I'm not sure whether it would spark up the access argument with the Arkwright's Soc.
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Pete, Jon has written a very sound argument at the top of this page against retroing On The Road. The way you've repeated the question without reference to it sounds a bit like you are getting itchy fingers for the drill?
Willersley Castle is currently a trad crag and has had access problems in the past. I'd hold off bolting until it has been discussed a bit more. There is a BMC Peak Area meet next week which you guys should get over to, Wednesday 23rd July at The Travellers Rest, Quarnford (on the way to Ramshaw from Buxton), start around 8pm I think. Fixed gear is the main item of discussion this time, pegs mainly but I daresay questions like this will be covered.
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I tried Hallowed and found that very reachy!!! Are you spaning from the big undercut by the first bolt to the good pocket/slot in the distance?
Yeah that's how i did it, big move eh? :o Then after that you use a shit slopy sidepull thing for your right hand before going up for the crimps over the bulge. I thought the moves were fantastic :bounce:
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Johnny, well responded and, no, not so much itchy fingers for the drill (I can see the danger to the sport in opening that floodgate - see recent North Wales slate forum messages, for example) as a 'pissed-offness'
with the present situation, whereby, for a long time now, a lot of quality lines are being left to stagnate, some with the occasional ascent, being 'protected' by the unquestioned umbrella of trad ethics.
I'm not reaching for the drill to make some, previously inaccessible routes suddenly available to me - I've already done a lot in trad form.
Having lived and climbed most of the trad up to E5 in the area, beginning in the early 70's, I well know the intricacies of the situation. With time, I've moved on significantly, and so has climbing.
It's about time the people who refuse to see another way got their finger out and 'put bums on seats' in a rock climbing way.
By the way, don't forget that access problems will continue at Willersley and elsewhere, regardless of any ammount of discussion at Area meetings. However, we'll certainly do our best to be at the BMC meet, for sure.
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New to this forum but I thought I should post that big fences have been erected at LPQ though it is easy to walk
around them at the momement, any one know what the the long term local plans are? Shame to lose such a great
wet weather venue. Easy access is possible from the upper car park near the friendly resident new age traveller with the pit bull this avoids parking in front of the new fences. Great routes but a bit harder for old fucks and shorties.
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Hi there and glad you rate the place. Been away for a while so will check out LPQ stuff. I know that the owner ( a building magnate, from Rotherham, I'm told)
is putting up some new housing development, but haven't seen plans. Likewise, I'll be really peed off if things go bottom up!
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I wouldn't be surprised with the house building industry in it's current state the guy might choose to do nothing major with the land for now, at least until the financial climate is a bit more favourable.
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JC, Belperpete etc., there's a thread over on UKC asking what are the new lines of bolts at High Tor. I'm not sure but they (UKCers) might be getting them confused. You might want to see if they need putting right.
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Could someone be kind enough to let me know which venues and routes are likely to stay dry this week?
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Long Tor should be fine so long as the rain isn't torrential. Lorry Park is ok in light rain but quite vertical so less protected. Turkey Dip is super steep, but can be greasy if it's been misty/drizzly. The High Tor Stuff should be fine so long as the rain is moderate. The bits at Willersley and New Bridge Buttress should be fine.
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Is Turkey dip access allright? someone mentioned it might be banned? and it certainly is on private land. If its allright then its certainly worth a visit.
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I climb with a guy who works for Enthoevens who own the land. They did put 'No Climbing' signs up, but according to him they're really not that bothered. Think they just did it to cover themselves.
We go down there when its raining and never had any trouble.
Cheers!
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Thanks Jon and Dobbin... will check them out this week.
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New routes at Lorry Park - Jon Clark climbed Dark Matter, the overhanging wall between Supercrack and Edge of Darkness today. It blasts off with some intense, bouldery style moves
and continues in a similar vein on pockets and crimps to final slopy moves and a slap for the finishing ledge. Possibly low end 8a (but no grabbing chain) and an absolute 3* classic wall climb.
An indirect start was done yesterday, using the bottom third of Edge of Darkness to reach the traverse into the middle of the wall at low end 7c??
These are just 2 of a number of brilliant climbs to be had and the quarry is in excellent condition at the moment.
Should be some more new stuff before long too. Check it out if you've been yet - you won't be disappointed (promise)!
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I meant to say, check it out if you've NOT been yet etc.
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Effort to Jon, that line looks uber thin!
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Effort to Jon, that line looks uber thin!
Hi Jon and yep, it's quite intense. Get down here - we need some repeats and it's truly excellent.
More news, JC completed 2 projects at Turkey Dip today, both bordering 8a - Overkill starts up Unleashed, reverses Onslaught and finishes up Pedal to the Metal.
Also, as yet unnamed, the left-side project starting over the cave and then, more off than on, grinding up the Font 7c boulder problem, overhanging wall to the lower-off. Different to anything else here.
More to come down here!
What have you been up to?
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The grit switch was flipped quite early this year, maybe due to the summer rains. I've been pretty exclusively tradding on the grit for the past few weeks. Even did a few new things in the Amber Valley.
Will certainly be checking these out when the lime switch happens again.
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:bounce: Although cold (obviously) crag conditions excellent at the moment, due to the dry weather.
See the following http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,10727.0.html (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,10727.0.html)
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Conditions excellent on most crags down here and a few things to report.
A new line at Lorry Park - Squealer Direct (borderline 7c+/8a) - Jon Clark.
Misses out the moves leftwards, to the mid-height rest and powers straight through to the Squealer top wall.
:dance1:More development to come.
By the way, recent clearance work in the quarry bottom signifies a need to keep a low profile.
Don't know what's gonna happen with the building scheme, so get in there and bag those routes!
Also, Newbridge Buttress now equipped and (just about) permadry.
A clutch of excellent routes, on perfect rock, from 6c to 7c+ and offering a great day or two's climbing.
Malcolm Taylor's route Trick Psychlist (7c+) is excellent and a new route here - The Mentalist (7a) - the right-hand line. Excellent!
The sport lines at Willersley have seen some attention and good feedback received.
Finally, I've got to give a plug for a truly great route of Gary Gibson's at Slaley Brook - Too Monsterosity 7a***.
18 clips - dead solid - an intriguing crux - awesome! Believe me, it deserves more traffic, for sure, because of the sheer quality!
What's prompted me to post this (but has reminded me how good the original route was) is an excellent new variation done by JC, climbing the steep wall to the left of the crux section at 7a+.
It's already been repeated by Mark Richardson.
Major 'new line' repeats needed at Long Tor, Lorry Park, Turkey Dip, High Tor etc. :great:
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Nice one Pete... where's Newbridge Buttress ?
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Nice one Pete... where's Newbridge Buttress ?
Wildcat - go over the bridge near the park and its straight up a steep slope in front of you, behind an information sign.
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Thankyou sir... will check it out.
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You're more than welcome, but can I ask you, if you do actually get on any of these great routes, post some feedback.
I guarantee that you won't be disappointed with any of them!! :great:
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Is there any potential for bouldering at New Bridge Buttress
Worth a lunchtime session ?
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Is there any potential for bouldering at New Bridge Buttress
Worth a lunchtime session ?
Probably not, nothing hard anyway. The bottom of the wall is mostly just off vertical. Although i think it has been bouldered on a bit in the past.
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Jon climbed Pete Cresswell's old project at Lorry Park yesterday, to give an extremely good and technical 8a pitch.
It's just to the right of Deceptive, is very varied and, with no real resting holds, will all too
easily spit the weak out!! No name, as yet. Get on it, somebody.
Updated Lorry Park topo (as well as Newbridge) on the way soon.
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http://Lorry Park Topo.jpg[/img]](http://Lorry Park Topo.jpg) (http://[img)
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I've posted a basic topo for Lorry Park over at UKC. So you've got no excuses for not going now! ;)
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1169 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=1169)
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I've never been to any of these places, which are most likely to be dry at the moment ?
Are any of them in the sun ?
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I'd wager they're all bone dry at the mo. Long Tor is shady all the time, Lorry Park gets shade in the morning (I think), New Bridge is south facing but tree shaded, High Tor is very sunny, Willersley shady and Turkey Dip shady.
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They're all in great condition, as Jon predicted.
I will make a topo of Newbridge Buttress available soon. Since the re-equippping, it has had some attention and
positive comments about the quality have been heard.
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Reckon LTQ will be warm enough on Sunday ?
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Aye
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Reckon LTQ will be warm enough on Sunday?
Hello Dolly. Aye. Aye. The weekend weather isn't going to cause many problems, I (predict) hope!
Which of our quality route/s are you hoping to get on?
Have you got all the info on other sport routes in the South Lime area?
Have a good day!
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OK cheers.
Hello Pete - haven't seen you for ages mate. In fact I had a look in my diary and it says the last time we climbed together was in June 98 where we went for a pint in the Angler's Rest before going down the Dale.
I think we'll see how we feel, but I think we'll have a look at the Boltest at some stage tomorrow.
I've got the info from http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/mainpages/peak/Long%20Tor%20Quarry%20Topo.htm (http://www.sportsclimbs.co.uk/mainpages/peak/Long%20Tor%20Quarry%20Topo.htm) and other bits and pieces from Gary's site. Is that where all the info is ?
Cheers
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You'll not be disappointed with the route (it's bone dry, I called in tonight)
and one of the best of the grade, without doubt!!
Warm up on Orcadian Donkey's... and/or/as well as something on the right and go for it.
Bolt positions pretty good (maybe an extended, higher up?).
Yep, Long Tor, Turkey Dip info on Gary's site.
Lorry Park (which is, incidentally, getting more and more used) topo on a UKB link.
High Tor/Willersley sport detailed via links on UKB.
Newbridge Buttress topo to be posted via link on UKB soon!
Have you been to Masson Lees yet, or any of the other sport crags in the area?
Enjoy your climbing.
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Although I copped it for work all bank holiday weekend, JC tells me that
there were quite a few ropes at Lorry Park on Sunday. Edge of Darkness,
Thunder Road, Supercrack, Ground Zero, The Squealer, Dark Matter etc.
Yes, it's a shitty location, but the climbing IS fantastic, by any measure and
it's good to see them getting the attention they deserve. Still some 2nd ascents to bag, too!
I've just noticed Andy F has posted positive comments - well done, that man.
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We were down on Sunday, had an excellent day. Good looking wall with some very worthwhile routes, and not actually an unpleasant a place to climb as long as you don't look behind you! Good effort on cleaning and equipping the routes.
As well as a few teams climbing there was some surreal business with a group of polish guys / women who turned up looking for easy routes, messed around on JC's fixed rope on the left of the crag and then proceeded to have a barbecue :shrug:
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Yes, it's a shitty location, but the climbing IS fantastic, by any measure and
it's good to see them getting the attention they deserve.
IMHO The Squealer is a good a 7c as I've done in a long while. The moves were continuously interesting, varied and testing. So good infact, it'd be 3* in Yorkshire, and there's not much higher praise I can give :o
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Does anyone know what Lorry park is like/likely to be like after all of this rain?
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A couple of mates were there Sunday and the steeper sections of the routes were staying dry but the tops were wet.
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Long Tor is generally a better bet in the rain, but will eventually get wet at the top if the rain is very heavy/prolonged
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cool, cheers guys. I take it there are no seepage problems at either long tor or lorry park at the moment then?
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Had a look round last night, after work and Lorry Park does have some annoying seepage areas.
There's still plenty OK there, but Bonjoy got it spot on with Long Tor. It was actually still bone dry and a couple of guys
were 'warming up' on Mrs Jackson.. Despite a heavy shower setting in soon after, I don't think there'll be any difference now.
Good time to get on Boltest etc.
Don't forget Newbrige Buttress, which is just about always dry and the High Tor/Willersley (although not as much of it) sport.
Not sure about Masson Lees, but Slaley Brook is fine, where Too Monsterosity (which is vying with Supercrack as "The best 7a in the Peak, easily",
according to comments made earlier this month on Rockfax/UKC) truly IS brilliant.
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...a couple of guys were 'warming up' on Mrs Jackson.. Despite a heavy shower setting in soon after, I don't think there'll be any difference now.
That'll be us then!
Desperately frustrating evening. Andy got the (non) warm up, but as soon as I set off, the heavens opened and the run-off soon drenched the finish. So instead I clipped up Tatanka Yotanka, which I last did on nuts and pegs, about 15 years ago.
At that time the whole ambience of the place was completely different, with a huge sycamore tree encroaching on the rock. JP really must be congratulated for including sawing in his training regime a few years back, and those that followed (including me!) have ensured that LTQ has been transformed from a shady, dank hole to something much more open and attractive, and more importantly, quick drying.
The clearing off of the rake leading up right was also a great job. Was that you and Jon, Pete? If so, your sterling efforts are much appreciated.
The only think LTQ is missing is some easier warm-ups. Have you thought about continuing the clearance round the corner to the next wall? It has an old Ian Parsons E5 on it, which I suspect is still awaiting its 3rd ascent (I did the second, back in the day), but that whole wall would now be better equipped in line with the rest of the quarry. I'll run this by Ian if you like....?
Cheers
Neil
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I did the initial clearing of the rake and some removal of smaller trees at ground level. Rigging a traverse line accross the top of the crag was fairly hairy, then quite a few hours hanging on an ab rope hacking at brambles. I even went as far as sweeping off as much soil as I could from the ledges to prevent re-growth. Jon and Pete did some more work the following year particularly on the top bit where some more routes were added. I also stripped a huge swath of ivy off the RH butress which has two good routes Human Capital 6c+ and Scum Manifesto 7a+, but I dare say they'll still need a tidy up before being properly climbable.
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It has an old Ian Parsons E5 on it,
:whistle:
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I did the initial clearing of the rake and some removal of smaller trees at ground level....
Nice one, Jon. I'm grateful to everyone who has contributed to the transformation here, as well as at LPQ.
I also stripped a huge swath of ivy off the RH butress which has two good routes Human Capital 6c+ and Scum Manifesto 7a+, but I dare say they'll still need a tidy up before being properly climbable.
Could be worth a rebolt and further clean. I remember enjoying both these routes when I climbed them back in the dark ages.
Neil
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Sorry Neil, I didn't realise it was you, otherwise I would have been more sociable!
Yeah, it had been a pretty good day, weatherwise, but crapped out later.
That's been pretty much the pattern recently, so the lesson is to get out asap.
Yes, there aren't any proper warm up routes at LTQ but the right side will eventually get some attention and should provide quite a few more routes.
Apart from Mrs Jackson's, Crystalline and Sac du Sable offer the best hope (and are not bad routes!).
LPQ could serve as a 'warm up' crag (Edge of..., Thunder Road...), as it couldn't be much closer!!
Good on Bonjoy for starting the 'new wave' at LTQ. Will do some more ledge clearing higher up sometime (think I've still got a shovel up there).
Regarding Lorry Park, I DO accept that simply 'popularising' a selection of trad routes on a mixed style crag, is not a wholly justifiable argument for retro-bolting said routes.
However, comparing the neglect of the place (as with a few others) over many years, of both sport AND trad routes, with the relative popularity evident now, I do feel OK with the change.
I would like to complete the switch to wholly sport, by retroing On The Road, Shattered Air and Desolation Angels. Thus, with the future addition of one or two new routes,
the crag will provide the best part of 30, mostly top class sport routes, of an excellent range of difficulty.
In particular, I have fond memories of the first - it's an absolute classic line - and climbed it several times during the 80/90's. However, in over a quarter of a century!!, it has
had relatively few ascents and has not been climbed for a long time. Although I cleaned it last year, predictably, it has had no takers since.
Now, some people may well feel that there's a 'thin end of the wedge' plot involved, but I really don't feel that this absent minority should dictate in this case.
Sorry to bang on so - life's really too short, isn't it?
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:goodidea:Of possible interest, in the hot weather, may be that, having called in at Turkey Dip, Lorry Park, Long Tor and Newbridge Buttress today, in boiling weather down here,
all these brilliant crags were displaying great climbing conditions! All were bone dry, shaded from the sun and catching a soothingly cool breeze.
Turkey Dip is great for those wanting to top up/test out on mainly juggy power moves and in a beautifully quiet setting.
Lorry Park has the crimpy, quality selection, covering a great range of grades. Don't expect to be alone there.
Long Tor is a surprising oasis, right by the A6. Seemingly, from the road, a dismal place to climb, a walk-in comparable to Raven Tor gets you to the base of a shaded, but open face,
with climbing of a vertical and crimpy nature.
Newbridge, the smallest venue, is the only unquarried face and offers a great session or two. I will soon get a topo onto UKC.
Most of these crags have significant 2nd ascents awaiting for the history book, but don't expect them to be easily won!
Disappointingly, apart from the almost predictable (these days) and justifiable ropes on lorry Park, nobody else was around, apart from a few on the trad at High Tor and Wild Cat.
Now, today, I know it was FA cup final day (by the way, did anybody catch the Rugby League after, between HKR/Warrington - a zillion times better!!), but there's more hot weather
in store, so, if you're looking for sport venues to suit, you won't do much better than the Matlock area.
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It has an old Ian Parsons E5 on it,
Would that be the Simon Lee E5 new boots and panties ?
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It has an old Ian Parsons E5 on it,
Would that be the Simon Lee E5 new boots and panties ?
No it's called Matt the Hoople. NB&P is on House of Common's Buttress
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Maybe its just me (actually, it's not, my mate thought this too) but I found turky dip way too painful to be fun.. Those cracks just hurt like hell. Long tor, however, I thought was great, and lorry park seemed good though I didn't do much there.
It's not matlock area but is southern peak - anyone know if thormen's moth is dry?
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anyone know if thormen's moth is dry?
I heard second hand that it was.. and would imagine it is so from last night's foray on the slime.
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It has an old Ian Parsons E5 on it,
Would that be the Simon Lee E5 new boots and panties ?
No it's called Matt the Hoople. NB&P is on House of Common's Buttress
Whoops - my mistake. I make them occasionally. I knew that Ian Parsons re-cleaned NB&P before repeating it and second-guessed why Neil thought it was a first ascent by Ian.
NB&P is on a buttress on its own between LTQ and HoC.
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I went to Slayley Brook last w/end, thro the wild strawberries to Marble wall and did a few really nice routes.
Has anyone got the beta on the crux of 'Brandy Snaps' ?
I couldnt for the life of me work out how to get from the first large pocket to the second thro the blankness!
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I went to Slayley Brook last w/end, thro the wild strawberries to Marble wall and did a few really nice routes.
Has anyone got the beta on the crux of 'Brandy Snaps' ?
I couldnt for the life of me work out how to get from the first large pocket to the second thro the blankness!
Did BS ages ago & can't remember the exact moves i'm afraid, but just crimp your way up the edges! :) Have you done Too Monstrosity yet on the Monster walls? One of the best 7a's i've done and very long at 45m!
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I got up the final head wall OK, it was the mid section i struggled with, utter blankness between two large pockets, think you must have to go out right but didnt want to use the large crack of the adjacent route!
Only went on Marble wall, the rest of the quarry looked gash!
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Only went on Marble wall, the rest of the quarry looked gash!
Slayley is a great Winter venue, as it gets loads of sun and is rarely wet. Climbing in shirtsleeves in Feb is not uncommon.
Don't know what you mean by 'gash'? It's a big quarry and, unfortunately has a lot of dodgy rock.
JC is right about 'Too Monsterosity' - it's a must do 7a!
A big route in many ways and, believe me, the rock quality is excellent. 18 clips, if I remember rightly.
a 70 metre rope will nearly get you down in one go, but there is a mid-way stance/lower-off anyway.
If you want any more info on stuff down Matlock way, just post on here.
Regards
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Had a play on The Boltest this evening, I'm still struggling to grasp how hard it is. The only comparable thing I've been on is Sardine, I'd say the Boltest was not 1-2 grades harder than Sardine but several grades harder. It was also hugely reach dependent and I'm not sure how Bonners did it at 7c.
I couldn't even see how it was possible do the first crux span (can't span between the holds crimped), the second crux lunge to the break (can't reach the break of the decent footholds), the fifth crux rockover to get the appalling two finger non-hold (can't stretch far enough locked on right hand), nor the sixth crux go again to the decent crystally bit (can't reach this with my feet still on the footholds). I also couldn't do third crux rockover in the break, the fourth crux lunge to the edge out right, and seventh crux slap to the upper break, but at least I could see how they might be possible, although the latter is the limit of my height. I could do the eighth crux rockover to finish, but that's quite easy.
Utterly :shrug: really.
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It is a solid 7c and reach helps, I was quite spanned on some moves.
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I could not reach the first span sitting on my left foot as seems the obvious way. I found that if stood straighter on it using a poor left hand hold i could then just reach the good left hand hold and move across for the dyno to the break. Im 5ft7.
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It is a solid 7c and reach helps, I was quite spanned on some moves.
Hmmm. I can imagine, since you too are a gentlemen of compact stature. I wonder if the antennae / exoskeleton help.
All academic really :shrug:
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Fiend, I'd reccomend trying The Squealer(Lorry Park, 7c)as it's not reachy at all, just technical. And I'm 5'7 ish. Haven't tried the Boltest yet, but it's on the hit list.
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Fiend, I'd reccomend trying The Squealer(Lorry Park, 7c)as it's not reachy at all, just technical.
Tried it last night. A much, much more reasonable proposition, even in super-sweaty conditions. I did the last 3 cruxes (slapping to the first jug, moving left from that up the groove, and going from the juggy break up to the next good holds) within a few goes. I couldn't do the first crux from the crimps to the left hand crimp below the jug, but I worked out a likely method. And the rest is easy.
Compared to the Boltest, the Squealer is:
Less steep.
Good shake-out jugs.
Two near hands off rests.
Good holds to clip off.
Very reassuringly bolted.
Only one really hard crux compared to several.
Sooooooooo much easier, by a matter of a few grades, it feels.
I might try to rotpunkt this, I quite like it really, it feels manageable and I like the good bolting.
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I thought The Boltest was pretty generously bolted, almost overbolted in places. I guess the clips are quite strenuous.
Did you notice if the loose jugs had been re-glued on the Squealer?
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The Boltest bolting seemed okay apart from a runout bit near the top crux reaching the break. The Squealer bolting is notably good i.e. easy clips, always a bolt right next to the hard moves, and, unusually for some of these routes, no runouts on easy ground. The bolt protecting the step up to the juggy break and the bolt protecting standing on the big ledge near the top are both more than I expect from Peak sport.
I'm not sure what loose jugs you mean. There was an obvious place on the mid-height rest ledge where a jug had come off to leave a flat dusty ledge - the jug is visible in the BMC sport guide, I think the route is easier without it as the rest ledge is bigger. Also visible in the BMC guide are some intermediates between the juggy break and the gaston/sidepull, these are also missing, which would then make the route harder with that cruxy bit. There was no sign of anything else missing.
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When I did it (2 yrs ago?) it had some loose jugs on a ledge/rest which looked to have been glued in the past, but whatever had been used was of very poor quality and had degraded into crumbly muck. Good to hear that there demise hasn't affected the route badly.
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2 yrs ago Jon?? It was last July wasn't it? ;D
The loose Jugs on the squealer i pulled off a few months ago because they were moving, it doesn't change anything. That's why i put in lots of bolts Fiend, to try and encourage people to get on the routes. :thumbsup:
I reckon that the climbing at Long Tor is generally old skool hard, and i can see why its not as popular as lorry park. Most of the routes require a massive reach, unless your really strong.
P.s Bonjoy i repeated your 7c depravity today. Thought it was quite tough crossing through Ruby, but it was very humid as well!
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Last year, crivens!
Nice work on Depravity. You must have ticked the face now!
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That's why i put in lots of bolts Fiend, to try and encourage people to get on the routes. :thumbsup:
It works :) Have a wad.
I guess Good Time Emporium isn't one of yours as I had a play this evening and wasn't a fan of the bolting on that (4th bolt hard to clip from ledge, and then runout to 5th bolt and committing to finish, ideally needs 4th lower, one for when you've stood on the ramp, and 5th higher).
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Wrong - GTE was rebolted byJon. Now, I'm a big fan Fiend, but, you have to realise that, when rebolting, one ought to
take some account of the original bolter's intention. This may be mis-calculated, or intended,
But, whatever, out of respect for the origin of the route, a few 'run-outs' may ensue now and again!
There are ways of coping with this, if you really get into 'sport'.
So, be prepared to run it out a bit, now and again on some retro/rebolted routes.
As long as your risk is calculated and backed up with a good belayer, you'll be OK.
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Tried it last night. A much, much more reasonable proposition, even in super-sweaty conditions. I did the last 3 cruxes (slapping to the first jug, moving left from that up the groove, and going from the juggy break up to the next good holds) within a few goes. I couldn't do the first crux from the crimps to the left hand crimp below the jug, but I worked out a likely method.
If I remember rightly my beta for the 'left hand crimp' section is left hand on good positive hold, right hand up to gaston, go again with right to get your 'left hand crimp' with the right than up with left to a smaller crimp followed by slight lunge to jug.
And the rest is easy.
Worth ensuring that you've worked the moves back left at the top because it can feel quite awkward and tiring after you've done everything else (though maybe you could traverse further right to get a better rest before)
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Fiend, Ian's beta is spot-on. Go with your right, then again, left to tiny crimp and throw for the bucket. Do keep plenty is reserve for the top, it is pumpy up there.
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Wrong - GTE was rebolted byJon. Now, I'm a big fan Fiend, but, you have to realise that, when rebolting, one ought to
take some account of the original bolter's intention. This may be mis-calculated, or intended,
But, whatever, out of respect for the origin of the route, a few 'run-outs' may ensue now and again!
I disagree on two counts:
1. The original bolting is not necessarily done with the best intentions of a long-lasting sport route. Factors such as cost of bolts and fashion for spaced bolting at the time may have caused a poor bolting job. When these factors are no longer an issue and the crag is a proper sport crag, proper sport bolting seems more suitable.
2. The concept of seems entirely spurious in a context where there is major retrobolting going on. If the classic cracklines at the crag are getting retrobolted without any respect for their original nature (irrespective of whether this is right or wrong), then why should rebolting sport routes be any different.
So, be prepared to run it out a bit,
I do, on trad, all the time, with pleasure. When I choose to climb sport it's for a different experience, the standard sport climbing experience.
I've noticed with my experience of poorly bolted routes, that almost invariably all they ever needed was one more bolt and the spacings moved a bit, usually in a very obvious way. It's not like they needed, nor am I desiring, grid bolting or over bolting. Just something that feels like conventional modern sport climbing rather than 80s-style dodgy Peak hybrid sport.
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If I remember rightly my beta for the 'left hand crimp' section is left hand on good positive hold, right hand up to gaston, go again with right to get your 'left hand crimp' with the right than up with left to a smaller crimp followed by slight lunge to jug.
Hmmm. I did think of that, the problem being that that "smaller" crimp I wouldn't even use as a foothold. If I'm going to have to use a hold that bad I might as well use the lower right crimp by the bolt and go again to the LH crimp.
The way I worked was to get the gaston and go to the LH crimp with my left, I didn't do it that evening but it felt likely. I'll play around more of course.
Worth ensuring that you've worked the moves back left at the top because it can feel quite awkward and tiring after you've done everything else (though maybe you could traverse further right to get a better rest before)
Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.
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Hmmm. I did think of that, the problem being that that "smaller" crimp I wouldn't even use as a foothold. If I'm going to have to use a hold that bad I might as well use the lower right crimp by the bolt and go again to the LH crimp.
The way I worked was to get the gaston and go to the LH crimp with my left, I didn't do it that evening but it felt likely. I'll play around more of course.
Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.
Maybe missed a bit of detail - once you get the good crimp with your right via the gaston / go again you make some foot moves to end up rocking quite high on a good left foothold, this then makes the "smaller" crimp feel usable for the pop to the jug (or lunge for the shorter :) ). Certainly felt easier that trying to go from rh gaston to the lh crimp which I couldn't do.
Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.
Sounds about right though, can't remember really, the very top did feel very slightly artificial and though don't think it mattered too much in the overall difficulty of the route it did feel pumpy on the rp.
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Maybe missed a bit of detail - once you get the good crimp with your right via the gaston / go again you make some foot moves to end up rocking quite high on a good left foothold, this then makes the "smaller" crimp feel usable for the pop to the jug (or lunge for the shorter :) ). Certainly felt easier that trying to go from rh gaston to the lh crimp which I couldn't do.
Ah yes that makes sense, I know the foothold you mean. Will feed all this into the beta-cruncher.
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Wrong - GTE was rebolted byJon. Now, I'm a big fan Fiend, but, you have to realise that, when rebolting, one ought to
take some account of the original bolter's intention. This may be mis-calculated, or intended,
But, whatever, out of respect for the origin of the route, a few 'run-outs' may ensue now and again!
I disagree on two counts:
1. The original bolting is not necessarily done with the best intentions of a long-lasting sport route. Factors such as cost of bolts and fashion for spaced bolting at the time may have caused a poor bolting job. When these factors are no longer an issue and the crag is a proper sport crag, proper sport bolting seems more suitable.
2. The concept of seems entirely spurious in a context where there is major retrobolting going on. If the classic cracklines at the crag are getting retrobolted without any respect for their original nature (irrespective of whether this is right or wrong), then why should rebolting sport routes be any different.
So, be prepared to run it out a bit,
I do, on trad, all the time, with pleasure. When I choose to climb sport it's for a different experience, the standard sport climbing experience.
I've noticed with my experience of poorly bolted routes, that almost invariably all they ever needed was one more bolt and the spacings moved a bit, usually in a very obvious way. It's not like they needed, nor am I desiring, grid bolting or over bolting. Just something that feels like conventional modern sport climbing rather than 80s-style dodgy Peak hybrid sport.
Some of that I agree with but I’d question other bits.
First off I think sport routes should be bolted safely, in such a way that you won’t hit the ground or ledges if you blow a clip. But within that rule I don’t see why there should be a standard spacing any more than I think equippers should pander to your desire for a “standard sport climbing experience”. To an extent bolts should get further apart as you get higher.
Trad climbers taking a break from the bold might find it annoying, but some sport climbers enjoy the odd runout too. That said, in my experience sport climbers are in fact often more comfortable with runouts between bolts as they’re more accustomed to climbing to the point of falling off on lead, taking frequent lobs in a way that tradders (sensibly) tend not to do as often. A trad climber carefully selecting his/her routes could easily stick to stuff where they never really run it out on difficult ground (I'm not meaning you by that). The trad=bold, sport=unbold idea is a gross over simplification.
Bolt positioning, certainly on the harder routes, is as much or more to do with where it’s easiest to clip from rather than the avoidance of slightly scary but safe runouts. A good bolter will firstly ensure the spacing is safe and then bolt the route in a way which adds the least extra physical difficulty, only thirdly does the vague notion of standard spacing come in. Squeezing in an extra bolt at one point can mean messing up the positioning further up, such that you are forced to clip in strenuous positions.
Bolt positioning must also take into account rope drag avoidance, rope/clips/bolts obscuring holds and rock quality. It’s a process you can spend ages agonising over on a new route.
And don’t forget, long continental routes tend to have huge trouser filling runouts to match. In my experience the bolting on full sport routes in the UK is roughly the same or a bit closer together (probably due to the fiddly nature of the climbing) than Euro equivalents. Making then even closer together will only lead to being gripped on holiday.
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Worth ensuring that you've worked the moves back left at the top because it can feel quite awkward and tiring after you've done everything else (though maybe you could traverse further right to get a better rest before)
Hmmm. The way we were doing it was to rock onto the triangular ledgey bit and get a good hold on the rib out right (about 1m right of the top bolt). Use some edges to get a good higher jug with the right (just left of Supercrack), then span back left to holds and up to lower-off. Is that legit? There's almost a hands off rest on the little triangular ledge, it didn't feel too concerning.
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IIRC Ian and I both went diagonally left from the ledge, to some big slopey holds above the final bolt, before the big final break, them belay. Even taking a really good rest before the last moves I nearly contrived to blow it.
Make sure that you've got the top 100% sorted as when you go back left it is fluffable. You can go from fine to boxed in seconds when your tired.
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You'll notice a change to Squealer after today. The original method crimp (spanning out left from the 1/3rd jug) has now gone
to the crag foot, leaving the right hand crimp/right foot up/span left for good holds thingy variation as, seemingly, the best way.
Would seem no change to grade??
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I'm the one who pulled the hold off...sorry bout that, it was a massive Jug I pulled off though not a crimp.
I found the best method now is to go left to a decent sidepull then left again to a jug (wide span). I can't see that the loss of this hold will make any difference.
Andy also pulled the crux hold off the 8a+ Right of supercrack (next to 2nd bolt). This will probably still go without this hold(still a small edge there)
We also tried the route Left of Squealer which we found a bit disappointing really. It seemed to have very poor rock on the lower wall and a seemingly chipped crux hold.
The Routes on the Right side of the crag look to be on much better rock and I'll be back to try them.
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We also tried the route Left of Squealer which we found a bit disappointing really. It seemed to have very poor rock on the lower wall and a seemingly chipped crux hold.
Yeah well a few weeks ago i turned up at the crag to find that some idiot had very poorly glued a massive finger jug over where the crux crimp used to be! :wank: So rather than glue something else on i just re-created the original hold. Its exactly the same as it was now. The route is less than a year old and has only seen 2 ascents so the rock will settle down.
You must be pulling pretty hard ;D
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We also tried the route Left of Squealer which we found a bit disappointing really. It seemed to have very poor rock on the lower wall and a seemingly chipped crux hold.
When I gave this a go I thought the bottom wall was very dusty and dirty, but the climbing itself was fine and would clean up nicely with a few ascents. That crux crimp did seem a bit 'manufactured', but then again the whole wall is manufactured. The top section, and the finish in particular, I thought were excellent.
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Aaaaah Scouse you fat cunt, which hold did you pull off?? :'( Someone explain it to me :'(
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Andy also pulled the crux hold off the 8a+ Right of supercrack (next to 2nd bolt). This will probably still go without this hold(still a small edge there)
It will still go, but it will be a fair bit harder as the remaining edge is poorer than the original, and you can't pinch it like you could.
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Aaaaah Scouse you fat cunt, which hold did you pull off?? :'( Someone explain it to me :'(
Once you get to the Jug after the crux you make hardish moves out Left to reach good holds. The hold I pulled off was a jug in the groove which wasnt really needed anyway (i.e on easy ground between the move left and the rest ledge)
I'm sure it won't affect anyone's sequence drastically.
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Andy also pulled the crux hold off the 8a+ Right of supercrack (next to 2nd bolt). This will probably still go without this hold(still a small edge there)
It will still go, but it will be a fair bit harder as the remaining edge is poorer than the original, and you can't pinch it like you could.
Do you reckon it would notch up the grade? The start was pretty desperate before it came off, is the remaining edge solid now?? if so i will probably leave it as it is.
Cheers
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Once you get to the Jug after the crux you make hardish moves out Left to reach good holds. The hold I pulled off was a jug in the groove which wasnt really needed anyway (i.e on easy ground between the move left and the rest ledge)
I'm sure it won't affect anyone's sequence drastically.
Oh phew, I think I know the one you mean. Rest jug > angled thing out left (via span off jug or crossover into RH sidepull) > jug in groove > big ledge > break?
All is forgiven :hug:
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Once you get to the Jug after the crux you make hardish moves out Left to reach good holds. The hold I pulled off was a jug in the groove which wasnt really needed anyway (i.e on easy ground between the move left and the rest ledge)
I'm sure it won't affect anyone's sequence drastically.
Oh phew, I think I know the one you mean. Rest jug > angled thing out left (via span off jug or crossover into RH sidepull) > jug in groove > big ledge > break?
All is forgiven :hug:
If its the one I think then it is a tooth shaped shield of rock half way between the end of the lower crux and the resting ledges. It was properly wobbly and looked to have been glued in the dim and distant pas as there was loads of decayed glue like stuff around its rim. I was going to stick it back down next visit to try and prevent it landing on a rope or someones head. Guess there's no need anymore.
You would have spanned out to the small 2 finger pocket from if doing the RH finish to the squealer. If it is this one then it won't make the squealer any harder - not sure about the direct though.
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Sounds like it will have affected the direct version, i think i used that hold with my left hand to get the two finger pocket! lol i will have to re-climb it again now :'(
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Sounds like it will have affected the direct version, i think i used that hold with my left hand to get the two finger pocket! lol i will have to re-climb it again now :'(
You'll have to re-climb your 8a+ too, as this is now significantly harder.
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Andy also pulled the crux hold off the 8a+ Right of supercrack (next to 2nd bolt). This will probably still go without this hold(still a small edge there)
It will still go, but it will be a fair bit harder as the remaining edge is poorer than the original, and you can't pinch it like you could.
Do you reckon it would notch up the grade? The start was pretty desperate before it came off, is the remaining edge solid now?? if so i will probably leave it as it is.
Cheers
I think that this is an appealing line with nice moves, but unfortunately I'm not convinced it will ever stablise. I snapped off at least one foothold every time I pulled on, and the handhold that exploded seemed as solid as anything on the wall. The rock on this section [and the route left of Squeeler] seemed to be mainly quartz crystals held together by mud. Grade wise, I probably don't do enough routes to be able to accurately say, but if it was a boulder problem up to the juggy pockets then the snappage would definitely have altered the grade. It has changed from a steady, aggresive lock off, to an on-off deadpoint, and if you couldn't lock off the move before, then slapping the remaining edge will be hard to snag.
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This thread has been quiet for a while, so I thought I'd resurrect it by mentioning that blessed are the weak (7a+/7b) and hallowed by thy name (7c) at Willersley are both well worth doing if you're in the south peak area. They're certainly as good as anything else in the area, both stay dry in showers and neither seem to seep which is useful in this 'barbeque summer' we are experiencing. There you go, there is no excuse now, get to it!
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:agree: Glad to hear they're getting a few ascents. I thought Hallowed Be Thy Name was v. good, the crux moves over the bulge are excellent. 8)