UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => news => Topic started by: Pantontino on February 26, 2008, 11:23:07 am
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Mr Golden Heels has climbed another slate project:
(http://www.groundupclimbing.com/upload/news/newslatesman2%20280.jpg)
Full story:
http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=205 (http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=205)
Jack Geldard has also covered it on UKC:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=287683 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=287683)
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good work peter, he's had a good start to the year!
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Amazing, isn't it? How the sound of jungle drums distort w/ time . . .
The most I ever did for that line was: let it be known it existed; name it; put the top inspection/working bolt in; and offer another bolt in a bloc at the top of the level above to enable an abseil. Oh I took a reasonable amount of loose rock off it too. I bolted it about half an hour before I did Song of the Minerals in '89 (I had a thing about aretes at the time . . . )
I never once tried the moves, not once. Truth is, my vision lies unrealised taking the arete on it's left overhanging side - not the slab to the right. Pete bolted it, and finally all the hard work has payed off. It's 100% his very own route.
Effort youth! :bow: Time to get stuck into something hard now ;) Beers fine wine is on me when I return to The Village of the Damned.
(I'm convinced w/ another 8 years of solid powerball I can cream the arete on it's left (pinches/cheval) at 8c+/9a. Watch this space, just be sure to blink occassionally.)
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Pete told me there are no holds on the left side of the arete (and it certainly looked that way when I was up there last). How did you propose to climb it - with sink plungers perchance? ;D
(PS. I've tweaked the news item to ensure historical accuracy regarding your fleeting involvement with said line. Apologies for any distress the original item may have caused.)
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No distress, merely amusement.
Proposal? Pinching the arete till it bled, and clamping all the way, possibly weaving around the arete as one went. I recall there being one or two holds on the left side, or perhaps even fabricating holds (?) It could well be impossible on the left. Nevertheless, I left the country if I recall, then gave up roped climbing for good soon after.
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Which is hardly the fucking point!
Point is, this is one of the most aesthetic lines I've ever seen - it blows Bungle's Arete, Dragonslayer and Il Migliore Fabbro out of the water. The climbing is full-on, with some extremely difficult moves for the medium. I thought there might actually be a little more competition for the line from Gelderd and Hocking . . .
Si, do you have a more head on pic of the arete? Those generally interested in the line should check out the Quarries as you head towards Llanberis from the Pass or vice versa when the afternoon sun is on it. It's directly above the farthest right winding house. You'll not see a more obvious or striking line. I'm excited for Pete, very fin de siecle and hopefully onward to greater challenges; of which there are many in Dinorwig.
Tick's Groove anyone? (Surely this must fall next?)
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Your wish is my command...
(http://www.groundupclimbing.com/upload/gallery/Rainbow%20Walls%20Lower%20560.jpg)
The light/shadow arete of The New Slatesman can clearly be seen up and right of the winding house.
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And if you look very closely you'll see Ben Bransby tussling with the groove of Rowan just to the left.
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Amazing, isn't it? How the brain distorts w/ drugs . . .
. . . in '89 (I had a thing about drugs at the time . . . )
*cough*
It was August 1998 . . .
Ball & Chain really, just say no, children. Nice pic by-the-by. The one on UKC is poor, hope Mondo will be taking a shot at it.
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Amazing, isn't it? How the brain distorts w/ drugs . . .
. . . in '89 (I had a thing about drugs at the time . . . )
*cough*
It was August 1998 . . .
Ball & Chain really, just say no, children.
:lol: Some of my memories may be slightly fuddled in a similar fashion but I generally get the decade right.
That is some line.
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I was thinking that there might be potential for a front cover shot for the new Slate guide - go back early morning and catch the light on the right side of the arete.
I've got Gill's shot of Song of the Minerals by the way. A fine image.
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That? Yeah it's not bad (should do too as it was taken w/ a medium format camera that looked as costly as a new car) - & no logos, which is fantastic.
Use it however (caveat: front, back or inside covers and I'll burn your haus down ;D always fancied a centerspread meself 8)
Do you know if a better photographer will shoot Pete on it? Deserves b/w film.
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FAO ~ Ed. Mick Ryan / Ass. Ed. Jack Gelerd (Who will read this eventually.)
I'm really not happy w/ my name being on the front page of your website. Please remove it ASAP. On The Edge has never heard of this line (pre or post ascent) that's a different WAY harder line. Thanks, but no thanks, there are too many inaccuracies in your story for words. Please don't print my name ever again.
(Sorry for the hi-jack Peter, back over to you, fella.)
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On, the plus side, Riddim Puss, you are a "talented climber" :)
P.S. This route looks good.
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I'm a better runner & vegetarian cook, and I do a great Foot on the Seat - Busby . . .
Who gives a fuck? :yawn:
The route is m i n d b l o w i n g . Robins is a w a d .
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I'm a better runner & vegetarian cook, and I do a great Foot on the Seat - Busby . . .
I preferred your earlier work with the Ministry.
Looks a great line (and this coming from someone that doesn't do routes. :thumbsup:
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I've met more than one namesake. I'm more handsome than all 8)
Really must get my Thin Lash out on EP.
Rowan on this buttress is also an excellent line. I found this abandoned line in '97 w/ a brass mashie in the groove. I left it alone and kept schtum about it as it was clearly someones failed attempt. I'd love to hear from anyone who may have any information about this. Think it goes at, what? 7c+. I hear it's a mammoth move, too. Pete's on fire.
When you see this line face on you will understand... It's killer. Bet Caff is on it now.
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Do you know if a better photographer will shoot Pete on it? Deserves b/w film.
That is a bit ungracious Paul, given that the existing shots by Jack and Gareth were taken in bad light conditions and are genuine 'in the moment' first ascent photographs.
As for having your name on the news page at UKC - does it really matter? ::)
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Is it just me that likes the UKC photo of the line? :shrug:
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I quite like it but prefer the original (and agree with SAChris's comments, just a bit of saturation and b/c needed). A great pose / angle tho.
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Is it just me that likes the UKC photo of the line? :shrug:
I'd agree that it's better than the ones on groundup...
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Ungracious? Graciousness has never had anything to do w/ the expression of an honest opinion and everything to do w/ massaging fragile ego's and walking on eggshells, graciousness can bend down and kiss my ass. I think it's a poor shot, it may be of the moment but it's nothing special. Ray's Trauma pic is of the moment, also in poor light and it's brilliant. As for UKC I'd prefer not to read my name in print regarding things I never did on a commercial website run by a c u n t. (Excuse me if I'm coming across as ungracious here). I thought you cared about the historical record? If I wanted to use my christened name I would instead of the dead American's I currently do.
I just though that since this is the hardest proudest line in years that a real peach of a pic should be taken, not for the press, but for Pete's grandchildren.
*touches wood*
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Is it just me that likes the UKC photo of the line? shrug
I'd agree that it's better than the ones on groundup...
I wouldn't agree. A better angle, perhaps, but I prefer the way the ground-up ones have been reproduced.
Houdini, knowing Mick as little as I do (I've met him twice), and knowing you as I do (just based on your posts on here), I'd rather go on holiday with him. He is not a cunt, and you should be aware that your web 'personality' does not (I hope) accurately portray your real one.
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Ungracious? Graciousness has never had anything to do w/ the expression of an honest opinion and everything to do w/ massaging fragile ego's and walking on eggshells, graciousness can bend down and kiss my ass. I think it's a poor shot, it may be of the moment but it's nothing special. Ray's Trauma pic is of the moment, also in poor light and it's brilliant. As for UKC I'd prefer not to read my name in print regarding things I never did on a commercial website run by a c u n t. (Excuse me if I'm coming across as ungracious here). I thought you cared about the historical record? If I wanted to use my christened name I would instead of the dead American's I currently do.
I just though that since this is the hardest proudest line in years that a real peach of a pic should be taken, not for the press, but for Pete's grandchildren.
*touches wood*
If pics like Ray's one of Trauma were common place your sniping would (almost) be justified, but they are not. Off the top of my head the only other example of an amazing first ascent shot in recent times is JB's of Appointment with Death at Wimberry. Both of these pics are stunning and a credit to the photographer's skill, but such results are rare.
Personally I'm grateful that Gareth and Jack were there, and whilst you might not like the results I reckon they did a good job at capturing 'the moment'. Of course there have been discussions about a return for an early morning shot in good light - but whether that works out remains to be seen.
From a news point of view it is interesting that someone else (namely you) inspected the line and placed the bolt at the top of the route, and also named it, especially as the first ascencionist chose to keep your proposed name. Given that your involvement is newsworthy, are you seriously suggesting that Houdini is used instead of your real name?
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As for UKC I'd prefer not to read my name in print regarding things I never did on a commercial website run by a c u n t.
On occasion Mick may well act like a five star tool on the interweb, he is not, however, a c**t. That sort of outburst does you no credit.
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Exactly. Ray cites the Trauma pic as one of his best, when everything came together.
And well done Simon on the thankless task of posting news on NWB, it's a hard job well done.
On the other point, I know Mick, and I think he's a genuine and interesting person whose heart's in the right place. There is a fashion on here for calling him a cunt, and every time I see it, my opinion of those people who do it drops lower and lower and lower.
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I dont know Mick and as far as I'm aware I haven't called him a cunt. However with the whole "Yorkshire Bouldering Guide" incident he certainly displayed behaviour of an extremely cuntish nature. I can see why people would therefore choose to describe him as such (if it walks like a duck etc). I can also see why this would be distasteful to people who do know him and regard him as a decent bloke. It's all :off: anyways.
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people call mick that on here because of his long track record of what many regard as an absolutley appauling attitude and behaviour both on here and on UKC. if thats at odds with his real-life persona, then theres only him that can do anything about it. you can't blame anyone for judging a book by its cover but when the cover is all you're got to go on, and someones wiped the cover in dogshit, set fire to it and shoved it through your letterbox you've not got much option.
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..........which is basically what I was saying but not nearly as well.
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yeah, i think your post appeared just as i was posting mine. great minds etc.
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On the other point, I know Mick, and I think he's a genuine and interesting person whose heart's in the right place.
...wouldn't be the first word that came to my mind. The Tony Blair of the climbing community - more spin than a washing machine strapped to a ferris wheel. A large washing machine. With Scouse inside it, with his b0rked Powerball.
There is a fashion on here for calling him a cunt, and every time I see it, my opinion of those people who do it drops lower and lower and lower.
If one's opinion is going to be influenced by the impression someone gives of themselves on the internet (which I think is valid - internet behaviour is just another facet of a person), then I don't believe Mick escapes scot-free either.
I do think most of the accusations of cunthood appear when Mick makes a mockery of this site, or climbing internet sites and climbing internet journalism in general - rather than appearing out of thin air. Obviously not all the accusations though.
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FWIW I can vouch for the fact that Mick (like most people I have met off the 'net) in real life is a genuinely sound and generous person, but something seems to take over when he is in front of a keyboard that totally does my head in, so much so that sometimes I swear it's a different person, it's almost like a dual personality.
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If saying that I'm not a fan can be called sniping, then fuck it. Sniping it is. Here in the real world, it's called criticism. To say I don't like a certain piece of rock turns into an attack on the creativity of other people (!) I'd advise finding something other than climbing to occupy yourself w/, just a short break. You sound consumed, and this isn't the first time either... You don't appear to have anything to say, Pantonandonandon. Just stop. You sound overworked. Relax (and that's as a mate, not being patronising).
Dave is on the money w/ the c-word. Fuck me, amongst my mates it's a term of endearment ::)
Dual personalities. This is interesting. You're onto something here, Chris.
Anyway, great route.
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Sorry JB missed this earlier.
be aware that your web 'personality' does not (I hope) accurately portray your real one.
Really? Thanks for pointing that elusive fact out, I'm overwhelmed I didn't realise this before...
As for what we know of each other we'd struggle to put that on a stamp. Holidays? I really don't give two hoots for who you would holiday w/. I'm surprised. How it can go from me saying I don't think a photo was much cop to this. The internet is a barmy place, quite right too.
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. . . And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
(Corinthians 11:14)
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"And, lo! He was strong"
Gaskins 7:23
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You mean Gaskins 1: 6: 10?
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Out of the two of them I think I'd rather go on holiday with Houdini .....
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I'm confused. When is this holiday?
Nice line BTW
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Am I allowed to bring this thread back on topic? Or is going back to the original topic, somewhat off topic from the previous dozen posts? I'm confused!
Good effort Pete. Keeping the Llanberis scene alive and kicking (the Peak's arse)!
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It's a hypothetical holiday , and yes it was slightly off topic but was merely intended to show that contrary to some peoples beliefs I do read the whole thread ....
And yep it looks like a fantastic line ....Nice one Pete .....
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Personally, this thread lights my fire.
I love seeing people faced w/ reasonable choices/opinions/decisions ignore them completely and let loose like they mean it; get deep down and dirty and have a crack. Top behaviour. Such is life, it won't change or stay the same for my convenience. (Ed. And why should it, c*ntface?)
Quite . . .
(I find it peculiar that sloppy journalism persists when the facts are but a call, email, sms away. Totally fucking lazy really.)
But in case you hadn't noticed, this thread has been checked close to what? 1700 times and w/ so few posts. I think this is tip top publicity for an amazing line, and one that is so amenable to so many in these high performing times. It consolidates Pete's position as slatehead #1 (or at least joint 1st) w/ a 2nd 8b - and I'm excited that such a neglected form - one that hasn't seen much press action since Jean Mihn Ping-Pong and Lard Ass were mincing in these parts looking for a good harvest. There are so many wild lines here that you won't have seen or heard of, fantastic opportunities to push (what for me) is an equal of gritstone fully into the 21st Century. Slate is fucking wicked, and if you don't know that you really missed out.
For the record: I've been available for holiday between 6 and 8 months of every year for the last decade. Always room for more. 8)
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Caff's just done his slate project, another hard 8b,
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/index.html#n42838 (http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/index.html#n42838)
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Great news!
There's so much to do in this hole, what a bonkers place.
Tick's Groove, c'mon, soon!
(1900 times)
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You know that The Meltdown remains entirely climable, don't you? No ganster's tooth required.
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Is there some unwritten rule where nothing's allowed to be harder than 8b on slate? This "8b, hard 8b, top end 8b" etc bollocks sounds like it is just that. I would wager that both these amazing looking routes are at least 8b+. In fact wasn't The New Slatesman described as a 7c with a 7C+ boulder problem on top of it? That doesn't sound like 8b to me. It was also mentioned as being "considerably harder" than other 8b routes - so that'll be 8b+ then. I get why people dont want to be seen to be overgrading but there has to be a point when you move things up a grade or it just gets silly. :shrug:
Great to see stuff like this getting done, whatever the grade.
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Didn't the Very Big and the Very Small used to get 8c? or 8c+ even?
Lie you say though, all good news. Definitely a resurgence of interest.
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Didn't the Very Big and the Very Small used to get 8c? or 8c+ even?
Lie you say though, all good news. Definitely a resurgence of interest.
OK I should have said "nothing new's allowed to be harder than 8b" for the pedantic. ::) ;)
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Sorry, wasn't being pedantic, just assumed it was just a general observation on grades on slate as a mediumin general. Have seen varying grades for the TVBATVS, so wasn't sure.
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Well this much more like it, proper debate.
8b? I can't say much about that personally (close on t/rope one time...but not enough). How many 8b's on slate are there? 2 confirmed: Bungle's Arete, T V B & T V S (oddly Dawes used to say that this was 8b+ in pinks, 8c in any other boot; but it's settled @ 8b+). Then there's The Serpent's Vein 8b (another voice suggests differently) & now Sauron 8b (both unrepeated) and of course, New Slatesman 8b. So whilst the first two routes have seen fair action, by the pair doing the moving and shaking (Pete/Caff), no-one has touched the rest. And this pair are not exactly known for hard Lime. It's a combination of cautious/inexperience in the upper reaches of their ability. Could be argued that Caff's opinion is more reliable (having done harder).
I'm not sure where this 8b upper limit comes from; probably the same place that once argued Welsh rock was not suited to moves harder that Brit 6c...
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Is there some unwritten rule where nothing's allowed to be harder than 8b on slate? This "8b, hard 8b, top end 8b" etc bollocks sounds like it is just that. I would wager that both these amazing looking routes are at least 8b+. In fact wasn't The New Slatesman described as a 7c with a 7C+ boulder problem on top of it? That doesn't sound like 8b to me. It was also mentioned as being "considerably harder" than other 8b routes - so that'll be 8b+ then. I get why people dont want to be seen to be overgrading but there has to be a point when you move things up a grade or it just gets silly. :shrug:
Great to see stuff like this getting done, whatever the grade.
I was thinking exactly that, if these routes are significantly harder than Bungles then either downgrade Bungles or give them 8b+, Pete and Caff are definetly both capable, especially at this style.
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Well this much more like it, proper debate.
8b? I can't say much about that personally (close on t/rope one time...but not enough). How many 8b's on slate are there? 2 confirmed: Bungle's Arete, T V B & T V S (oddly Dawes used to say that this was 8b+ in pinks, 8c in any other boot; but it's settled @ 8b+). Then there's The Serpent's Vein 8b (another voice suggests differently) & now Sauron 8b (both unrepeated) and of course, New Slatesman 8b. So whilst the first two routes have seen fair action, by the pair doing the moving and shaking (Pete/Caff), no-one has touched the rest.
I don't want to incur the wrath of Houdini, but as far as I was aware, Pete hasn't done Bungles or Very Big / Small. Bobbie's Groove (well we've all seen Hard XS surely), but neither of the two mentioned. Caff yes to both I believe. However Ding Dong has done Bungles recently. So should he be counted as a mover and shaker?
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Has Pete not done Bungles? I thought he had, doesn't matter if we are confused. Your right about TVB & TVS, that's Caff & McC.
Should Pete be counted as a mover and shaker? Erm . . . Drew. Is 8b not enough? Check the thread title mate ::) cf - Rowan 7c+; Menopausal Discharge; Bobby's. Aquaint yourself . . .
He's also done far more than most in the quarries, that includes you and I. Be careful what you say . . .
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I'm not suggesting Pete isn't a big name in the quarries. Elsewhere too (Master's Edge). I was merely wondering if an ascent of Bungles by Pete had passed me by. I could well be wrong, but I don't think he's done it. I might go and ask Neil if he knows.
As for his ticklist, I'm very impressed. He's also bigger than I am, so I'm not gonna say a word against him :whistle:
Pete and Caff are definitely two of the biggest names in the quarries at the moment. I can't argue with that.
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It's hard to keep up w/ Pete & Caff. Too much spaz waddage between them.
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But it's got more to do w/ just new routing. There's been so much time-consuming and strenuous volunteer re-bolting work done by Robins, Reeves, Caff, Gelerd et al. In the process, a lot of amazing lines have seen repeats, for example Perry Hawkins' mega arete, Heatseeker. (Proper old skool wad, Perry. Brilliant line too.)
I'd still like to get hold of a couple of tirfors and pull away the fallen block at the foot of The Clour Purple. That's a great boulder problem start to a really individual route. It's not pie-in-the-sky, it could be done.
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Pete has done Bungles.
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Like I said, I almost never wrong 8)
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Another pic of Sauron here:
http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=207 (http://www.groundupclimbing.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=207)
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(http://www.groundupclimbing.com/upload/news/Sauron%20Ray%20Wood%20280.jpg)
Now this is a style of photography that I really approve of. The climber has less opportunity to use it to massage his ego (striated muscle tissue etc..) as he is shown w/ in the context of his greater environment. The best example of this is a liitle more extreme and it's one of the shots in One for the Crow. It's of JR on the main wall or pinnacle and he is barely there. It's not real of course, it's a set up on an ab' rope but nevertheless one would find it hard to see it as a posed image.
(I'll break some CP in a mo' and provide the pic, JR won't care and if he moans I'm give him a Chinese burn later ;))
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The shot I meant isn't actually this one (as one can barely see the climber on Rite of Spring, too extreme an example).
Here is JR on Shaft of the Dead Man E7 6C, taken by a living hero of mine (and a well-underrated snapper), M. E. Crook. But you get the drift of my offtopic bull, non?
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e67/houdini2/war.jpg)
This is my favourite set-up climbing shot.
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Now this is a style of photography that I really approve of. The climber has less opportunity to use it to massage his ego (striated muscle tissue etc..) as he is shown w/ in the context of his greater environment. The best example of this is a liitle more extreme and it's one of the shots in One for the Crow. It's of JR on the main wall or pinnacle and he is barely there. It's not real of course, it's a set up on an ab' rope but nevertheless one would find it hard to see it as a posed image.
(I'll break some CP in a mo' and provide the pic, JR won't care and if he moans I'm give him a Chinese burn later ;))
It doesn't really tell you much about the climbing though does it? I prefer pics that show you the style or type of climbing that the route has to offer, that way its inspring.
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Indeed, this has made me go straight to And One for the Crow. The shot above, and those of Margins of the Mind and to a lesser extent Womb Bits are amongst my favourite climbing shots period. In fact I like them because of their staginess. These are photos designed to have something to say about climbing - specifically here about its context in the natural world, that matched perfectly the concerns JR explored in the writing. There should be two types of climbing photography; reportage that captures events as they happen, its value lies in its newsworthiness or historical value - think the very best war photography. Aesthetic considerations have to be secondary and staged is by definition out. The second type is the designed exemplified by these Cloggy shots or John Cleare's Rock Climbers in Action in Snowdonia. Of course these categories have always blurred (think the famous Capra image of a soldier in the moment of being shot during the Spanish civil war now much disputed) but unfortunately, much climbing photography now is a totally bastard hybrid of the staged masquerading as reportage, having the worst faults of both and little of that which makes either valuable.
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Now this is a style of photography that I really approve of. The climber has less opportunity to use it to massage his ego (striated muscle tissue etc..) as he is shown w/ in the context of his greater environment. The best example of this is a liitle more extreme and it's one of the shots in One for the Crow. It's of JR on the main wall or pinnacle and he is barely there. It's not real of course, it's a set up on an ab' rope but nevertheless one would find it hard to see it as a posed image.
(I'll break some CP in a mo' and provide the pic, JR won't care and if he moans I'm give him a Chinese burn later ;))
It doesn't really tell you much about the climbing though does it? I prefer pics that show you the style or type of climbing that the route has to offer, that way its inspring.
Paul, what could be more inspiring than thinking about being there, in that place?
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but unfortunately, much climbing photography now is a totally bastard hybrid of the staged masquerading as reportage, having the worst faults of both and little of that which makes either valuable.
(http://i29.tinypic.com/20gi34m.jpg)
:whistle:
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It doesn't really tell you much about the climbing though does it? I prefer pics that show you the style or type of climbing that the route has to offer, that way its inspring.
Your quote seems out of place w/ what this picture depicts. A man making moves on an arete/wall climb on classic mountain Cloggy rock. What could be more obvious?
I know what you mean though Paul_ as I know what is more obvious: you mean shots that show the cross-through into the high-step to the undercut.
Arithmetic as opposed to poetry? Fair do's. Different strokes . . .
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It doesn't really tell you much about the climbing though does it? I prefer pics that show you the style or type of climbing that the route has to offer, that way its inspring.
Your quote seems out of place w/ what this picture depicts. A man making moves on an arete/wall climb on classic mountain Cloggy rock. What could be more obvious?
I know what you mean though Paul_ as I know what is more obvious: you mean shots that show the cross-through into the high-step to the undercut.
Arithmetic as opposed to poetry? Fair do's. Different strokes . . .
I think either you or I are confused, the photo I was referring to was the one of Sauron, this one in fact:
(http://www.groundupclimbing.com/upload/news/Sauron%20Ray%20Wood%20280.jpg)
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OK. Start again. Slate is known for it's ease of reading but technical difficulty of the move. Once you've done a bit it's all obvious (difficult/contortionate/thin/precarious, but largely obvious). Probably a bit like grit when you've enough rock aquaintance (which I haven't, I find it most baffling . . . ).
But again I think I know what you're driving at: In this pic you've no idea if the climbing is friable (always an issue here) or rock solid a la Dark Half et al; big or small holds etc.. . Yes, that's true, and you have a valid point. I still don't find muscle-boys so cool though.
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My apologies too Paul, I thought you meant the Cloggy pic. Still like the sense of scale in the Sauron shot tho'.
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You pair are bumming my brain: I think the two pictures very similar . . . :-\
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My apologies too Paul, I thought you meant the Cloggy pic. Still like the sense of scale in the Sauron shot tho'.
no problemo.
Houdini: Yeah they are very similar, I just think the Sauron pic lacks the sense of atmosphere and exposure thats shown in the other pic, anyway this is well :off: and just personal opinion.
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You pair are bumming my brain
I always aim to please.
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I bet the Sauron pic would look great if it were reproduced very large with tons of lovely detail. Seems too big for the web.