UKBouldering.com
places to visit => abroad => Topic started by: Mike Tyson on November 21, 2007, 11:29:45 pm
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Ok so we've got the tickets booked for next year.
Few questions.
1. Do I need specific things for my car like number plates or funny shit on my headlights? Although this sounds random I seem to recall there are specifics required for going into the EU.
2. Is it fairly easy to adjust to driving on the othere side of the road??
I am a fairly competent driver, so dont fear driving there to be honest.
Cheers dudes.
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Yes, there's a few things you need. Spare bulbs, triangle etc I think there's a list on AA/RAC site.
It's easy driving on the right, except on awkward junctions when you can't see oncoming traffic. A friend in the passenger seat sorts it out though.
We expect videos ;D
EDIT: http://driving.drive-alive.co.uk/driving-in-france.htm
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You need some deflector stick-on things for your headlights and a GB sticker for the back (you can get magnetic ones that don't mark your paintwork). I think you are also supposed to have stuff like a warning triangle, spare bulbs and a fluoro waistcoat.
Adjusting to driving on the other side of the road is pretty easy - if you have a moment of confusion, just look at the other traffic around you and follow their lead. I always have a few minor lapses where I set off along the wrong side of the road - nothing that a sharp elbow in the ribs from your alarmed passenger won't cure.
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Driving on t'other side is surprisingly easy to get used to - just be careful first thing in the morning. I've had a couple of occasions when i've woken up, jumped in the car to get croissants/bread and automatically reverted to uk style driving. Not good if you meet une semi-remorque coming the other way :)
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Ignore all that bull shite, just your car, some fuel and a driver.
Look left, drive right and you can't go wrong.
Its France ffs
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Once you have negotiated your firast roundabout you will be fine. I always get my head done in when making U turns etc.
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Ignore all that bull shite, just your car, some fuel and a driver.
You're probably right there, but I know someone who had a lot of hassle after a minor bump. I think the police were just being awkward f*ckers as he didn't carry what the French law (?) says you should. They managed to waste him the best part of 2 days though, so I always carry the stuff- it ain't much hassle anyway.
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It's definitely worth fitting the headlight things of you'll be blinding all the drivers on the other side of the road!
I found driving a right hand drive car in europe easier then driving a left hand one as it took me ages to get into changing gear with the wrong hand.
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Indeed. I would oddasional reach for the window winder instead of the gear lever.
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Once you have negotiated your firast roundabout you will be fine.
word to this
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yeah, it's fine!!
BUT do get the manatory kit the french insist on... they get v arsey if it's not in the car and the INSURANCE documents must be in the car when driven.
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I've done both and have to say on balance that I prefer using a left-hooker now. It does take a bit of getting used to, but in my experience the CDG hire car park is a harsh yet effective place to learn quickly!
I concur with all the above on using a UK car though - get the stuff as the french po-po can be harsh on J. Foreigner.
Watch out - IMO the heirarchy of manouvres that will mess your head up will be:
U turns
Driving around in supermarket carparks
Roundabouts
Making a right onto a minor road off a major road (I managed to negotiate on "UK style", much to the bemusement of an oncoming Italian)
Oh yeah, and watch out for the Peripherique if you're going on it - scary and fun all at the same time.
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you can, and I would, avoid the periphifreak - it's horrific
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I went round the Peripherique once. Rush hour and I still had the Scooby. Awesome fun, the adrenaline didn't wear off for hours!!
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Done that too. Rush hour, in a right hand drive, on my own. Still get night screams from it.
Avoid.
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Ok so we've got the tickets booked for next year.
2. Is it fairly easy to adjust to driving on the othere side of the road??
just do what the italians do and drive in the middle. at speed.
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also if you see the 5-0 with speed camera's, get your foot down
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its not driving there that is the problem...its coming back! ask jim.
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I'd recommend skirting around paris on the A104/N104/A4/A5b/A6 rather than the 'phrique, it's longer but oh so civilised in comparison.
Also well worth taking all the shit, eg triangle, spare bulbs flourescent jacket etc.
I got stopped in a random where's your shit you english peegs type operation and I was very pleased I had bothered (for the first time in years) as loads of other English people were getting on the spot fines and having a laugh trying to speak French.
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Everybody has to do the Peripherique at least once, it's the law.
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Done that too. Rush hour, in a right hand drive, on my own. Still get night screams from it.
Avoid.
Not that's the weird thing - last Feb, did it hungover, in the dark, in a rented Clio, in rush hour, without map and therefore from memory.
My only company was Jay-Z's 'Black Album' and (and I don't know if that's why) found it one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life!
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I've done both and have to say on balance that I prefer using a left-hooker now. It does take a bit of getting used to, but in my experience the CDG hire car park is a harsh yet effective place to learn quickly!
I learned to drive by totally illegally hooning an LHD Astra around Germany for a couple of weeks, taking in some laps of the Nurburgring along the way 8) Takes me about 1/2 hour before i've made the switch from RHD now. Also owned an LHD Volvo in the UK but did find overtaking a pain a lot of the time.
I'm not sure the Periphrique is really any worse than the M1 at rush hour really - same thing dressed up differently :)
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Done that too. Rush hour, in a right hand drive, on my own. Still get night screams from it.
Avoid.
didn't realise so many girls were members of this site.
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Thanks greatly everyone for the advice.
GCW That site has answered a lot lof my questions, cheers.
We're going in convoy so I could make the other party drive in front and follow their lead, thus potentially reducing my own risk!!!
Thanks again folks, very helpful.
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you'll be fine. its all in the first roundabout.
say to yourself as you approach "look left, drive right"
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On a roundabout tip, keep your eyes peeled for frenchies who enjoy going right round in the outside lane.
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Well this is what the AA has to say on the matter of what to carry in your car in france.
Special features: Warning triangle or hazard warning lights compulsory (recommended that warning triangle always be carried). It is recommended that visitors equip their vehicle with a set of replacement bulbs. Snow chains must be fitted to vehicles using snow-covered roads in compliance with the relevant road sign. In built-up areas give way to traffic coming from the right “priorité a droite”. At signed roundabouts bearing the words "Vous n'avez pas la priorité" or "Cédez le passage" traffic on the roundabout has priority; where no such sign exists traffic entering the roundabout has priority. In built up areas the use of the horn is prohibited except in cases of immediate danger.
It is recommended to wear a reflective jacket when exiting a vehicle which is stopped on the carriageway or on the side of a road outside a built up area.
So, in short you don't need a warning triangle if you have hazzard lights and the replacement bulbs and reflective jacket are recomended.
The RAC website say the same thing. http://www.rac.co.uk/web/knowhow/going_on_a_journey/driving_abroad/european_motoring_advisor/countrylookup
The only thing you CAN be fined for is not converting your headlights.
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On a roundabout tip, keep your eyes peeled for frenchies who enjoy going right round in the outside lane.
And for older drivers slowing/stopping in the middle of the roundabout to let you out as they are still following the "priorité à droite" :o
From Wikipedia...
In most of Continental Europe, the default priority is to give way to the right, but this default may be overridden by signs or road markings. In France, priority was initially according to the social rank of each traveler, but early in the life of the automobile this rule was deemed impractical and replaced with the "priorité à droite" (priority to the right) rule, which was employed until the 1980s. At a roundabout, "priorité à droite" works this way: traffic already on the roundabout gives way to traffic entering the roundabout. Most French roundabouts now have give-way signs for traffic entering the roundabout, but there remain some notable exceptions that operate on the old rule, such as the Place de l'Étoile around the Arc de Triomphe. Traffic on this particular roundabout is so chaotic that French insurance companies deem any accident on the roundabout to be equal liability.
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Well this is what the AA has to say.......
The only thing you CAN be fined for is not converting your headlights.
Interesting, I'm sure that'll piss my pal off loads :lol: The copper was obviously being a :wank:
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I'd recommend skirting around paris on the A104/N104/A4/A5b/A6 rather than the 'phrique, it's longer but oh so civilised in comparison.
this is the knowledge! its quicker!
golt when i was working in france i went with all my belongings packed to the ceiling of my shitty 205, luckily i had a month's training of wing mirrors only driving before going, since the rear view mirror had dropped off.
i was blinding people despite stickers due to the weight of all my shit in the back.
because your insurance sometimes only covers you for up to "a defined period" a year abroad - you sometimes have to notify them in advance when you are going.
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I'd recommend skirting around paris on the A104/N104/A4/A5b/A6 rather than the 'phrique, it's longer but oh so civilised in comparison.
this is the knowledge! its quicker!
I'd second the notion that its quicker (even if it is longer), mainly because you don't sit in gridlocked traffic for three hours (or go round the 'phrique the wrong way as I found myself doing upon waking up the first time I went to Font after catching the EuroTunnel at some ridiculous time in the morning to save money).
Its a little confusing to navigate the junctions and get the right slip roads but saves a shed load of time.
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"tis indeed my prefered route... fuck getting totalled on the freak..
16:30 leave cuvier... 22:30 2 pints of stella in local boozer in sheff... ;D
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was going to punter you for drinking stella but realized it was a little harsh.
Have only done the freak once myself, always gone east around paris previously. was ok but early in morning on weekend so not so much traffic
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can't believe people consider peripherique. just drive round.
once nearly crashed into a mattress when driving around paris.
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was going to punter you for drinking stella but realized it was a little harsh.
Have only done the freak once myself, always gone east around paris previously. was ok but early in morning on weekend so not so much traffic
You did it at easter too but you were asleep!
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It's definitely worth fitting the headlight things of you'll be blinding all the drivers on the other side of the road!
Bit of gaffer or insulation tape works fine, and saves u 6 quid!
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yep a real money saver, right up until the moment you hit a rock on the side of the road and trash your wheel and tyre.
FFS if you can't spend £8 on some 'beam benders' to drive safely you're a :wank: Imagine how we'd feel about loads of French / Poles spending £250 on a trip to the grit but not bothering to spend a few euro to make their car legal.
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The A104/N104 etc. method is my favourite. On some maps, the route is actually marked/highlighted as Le Francilienne.
On the way there there is one particularly badly signposted bit. Where you turn off the A1, just after CDG airport and you are on some kind of large sliproad - the signs for the A104/Marne disappear until the very last minute (ie above the point where the lanes are split with big concrete barriers). I think (?) that of the 4 lanes available to you, it is the 2nd from the left (3rd from right in euros) that is the correct one. Anyone else know for sure?
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The A104/N104 etc. method is my favourite. On some maps, the route is actually marked/highlighted as Le Francilienne.
On the way there there is one particularly badly signposted bit. Where you turn off the A1, just after CDG airport and you are on some kind of large sliproad - the signs for the A104/Marne disappear until the very last minute (ie above the point where the lanes are split with big concrete barriers). I think (?) that of the 4 lanes available to you, it is the 2nd from the left (3rd from right in euros) that is the correct one. Anyone else know for sure?
Yep that's a bit confusing, it helps when you've done it about 20 times. I'll try and remember as I'm off to Font in about 4 hours (pity me, come on I mean it's a hard life).
As I recall they also did some modifications around the A4/104 junction so I'll have to be awake for that section.
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Well all you have to do is follow signs for bordeaux (rather easy in you case :P) then the last junction onto the A6 is signed for Every.
btw see you at the weekend.
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The trouble is I've been drinking too much burgundy at the moment, yes see you this weekend.
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just got back from the maisonbleau which I believe is where your headed? if so the place is really damn good, enjoy.
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...just try not to be skinning up in the passenger seat (i.e. out in the middle of the lane) just as 3 police motorcycles swoop round the side of you, look you in the eye and motion for you to pull over. sharpish. chilling...
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The A104/N104 etc. method is my favourite. On some maps, the route is actually marked/highlighted as Le Francilienne.
On the way there there is one particularly badly signposted bit. Where you turn off the A1, just after CDG airport and you are on some kind of large sliproad - the signs for the A104/Marne disappear until the very last minute (ie above the point where the lanes are split with big concrete barriers). I think (?) that of the 4 lanes available to you, it is the 2nd from the left (3rd from right in euros) that is the correct one. Anyone else know for sure?
Yep that's a bit confusing, it helps when you've done it about 20 times. I'll try and remember as I'm off to Font in about 4 hours (pity me, come on I mean it's a hard life).
As I recall they also did some modifications around the A4/104 junction so I'll have to be awake for that section.
Driving down on Saturday and was wondering if either of you could confirm this particular section (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.982245,2.53252&spn=0.071314,0.147972&z=13) of the route.
I remember having to zip across quite a few lanes into the middle to catch the slip road to the A104, is that correct? Have there been any major road alterations? Finally do you know what towns are signposted along with the A104? I think in the past I've followed the A104 to its end, head back towards Paris for a mile or two, then followed the N104 down through Melun.
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I chatted to some Swedish guys who relied on their Satnav, and went straight through the middle of Paris. They described it as "exciting".
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The A104/N104 etc. method is my favourite. On some maps, the route is actually marked/highlighted as Le Francilienne.
On the way there there is one particularly badly signposted bit. Where you turn off the A1, just after CDG airport and you are on some kind of large sliproad - the signs for the A104/Marne disappear until the very last minute (ie above the point where the lanes are split with big concrete barriers). I think (?) that of the 4 lanes available to you, it is the 2nd from the left (3rd from right in euros) that is the correct one. Anyone else know for sure?
Google Earth has some very clear pictures of this section of the road. It is actually the 3rd from the left (2nd from R) of the 4 lanes that takes you onto the 104 towards Marne La Valee. No changes in road layout when we went in April. If you do that directions to/from thing on Google Earth for sections of the route it gives you a good idea of how it really is, although it does show some random wandering accross lanes - perhaps that is how its meant to be?
I've got this route wired now and can probably draw details of my beta on to a picture from google earth if necessary Slackers. let me know if you need more detail.
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Google Earth has some very clear pictures of this section of the road. It is actually the 3rd from the left (2nd from R) of the 4 lanes that takes you onto the 104 towards Marne La Valee. No changes in road layout when we went in April. If you do that directions to/from thing on Google Earth for sections of the route it gives you a good idea of how it really is, although it does show some random wandering accross lanes - perhaps that is how its meant to be?
I've got this route wired now and can probably draw details of my beta on to a picture from google earth if necessary Slackers. let me know if you need more detail.
Cheers for that lagers, have done it a few times but not for the past year or so. Have checked out the satellite images (neat idea, hadn't thought of that, putting the route in works pretty damn good (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=A1&daddr=A104&sll=48.980808,2.498617&sspn=0.004507,0.009613&ie=UTF8&ll=48.97464,2.492867&spn=0.009014,0.019226&t=h&z=16)), and with your sanity check, a (hopefully) well behaved SatNav (fully loaded with Jim's POI's) I reckon I should be fine.
I chatted to some Swedish guys who relied on their Satnav, and went straight through the middle of Paris. They described it as "exciting".
Thats exactly the sort of excitement I'm trying to avoid (that and the boredom of sitting in queues of traffic).
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When going from calais/dunkirk using sat nav, it will always take you through the center of paris because on paper it is the quickest route, but by only a few minutes, and if there is no traffic. Once satnav has planned the route, tell it to travel via mitry-mory and this will be the optimum route, taken only a couple of minutes longer on paper than striaght through the middle (in reality its is much quicker)
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When going from calais/dunkirk using sat nav, it will always take you through the center of paris because on paper it is the quickest route, but by only a few minutes, and if there is no traffic. Once satnav has planned the route, tell it to travel via mitry-mory and this will be the optimum route, taken only a couple of minutes longer on paper than striaght through the middle (in reality its is much quicker)
Good knowledge there Jim, cheers. I was going to try telling it to go via specific roads, but this sounds a lot easier than. Cheers.
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Just got an email from Norfolkline offering £5 discounts on ferry crossings (Dover <---> Dunkerque) if booked before 15th June and traveling before the 17th December 2008.
Go here (http://www.norfolkline.com/ferry/GetQuote.aspx?email=200805UK5GBPoff) and use the promotional code CN2
Not much of a saving, but Dover <--> Dunkerque route is normally cheaper than Dover <-->Calais and makes little difference to the driving time to Font (and is closer to Belgium (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,9163.0.html)).
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Off-peak ferry crossings Dover <---> Dunkerquer at £18 for sailings prior to 17th December 2008 from Norfolk Line (http://response.pure360.com/interface/external_view_email.php?B870058812640235341003).
Pretty damn cheap if you can plan your trip that far in advance and don't mind travelling over-night :-\
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Have never paid more than £60 for a return ferry to france and not all of them have been in the middle of the night either
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The A104/N104 etc. method is my favourite. On some maps, the route is actually marked/highlighted as Le Francilienne.
On the way there there is one particularly badly signposted bit. Where you turn off the A1, just after CDG airport and you are on some kind of large sliproad - the signs for the A104/Marne disappear until the very last minute (ie above the point where the lanes are split with big concrete barriers). I think (?) that of the 4 lanes available to you, it is the 2nd from the left (3rd from right in euros) that is the correct one. Anyone else know for sure?
New overhead signs are now in place, making this bit much nicer :thumbsup:
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Norfolk Line (http://www.norfolkline.com/) are offering £24 off mid-week ferries from Dover-Dunkirk with £10 discount if you book before 24/07/2009 if anyone's planning a trip over on the cheap.
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Latest AA guidance says you need:
Original registration document - does this actually mean the original registration document from the DVLA?!
Breathalyser. It then says:
All drivers should possess a breathalyser. However, as of the 25th January 2013 a driver can not be penalised for not carrying one. The fine has been postponed indefinitely. The breathalyser has to be a certified by the French
authorities, showing an ‘NF’ number. The official text states that one unused breathalyser should be produced. We
recommend that two single-use breathalysers are carried, so if one is used or damaged you will still have a
replacement to produce.
And elsewhere:
We have received notification of the indefinite postponement of being fined for not carrying a
breathalyser (An on the spot fine of €11 was due to be implemented on 1 March 2013).
Which reads to me as "You absolutely do not need to bother getting a breathalyser".
What's the deal?
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You don't need a breathalyser. You should carry the vo5. (not a copy)
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Don't forget to remove the UKIP sticker from your car - and if they don't understand, shout.
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Oui oui monsieur. J'aime le baguette.
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mention my name and they'll offer to drive your car back to the gite for you if you've had too many
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On this subject, can anyone recommend an offline Euro GPS app for a smartphone? Last time we were driving round the outskirts of Paris at one in the morning, with a useless road map, screaming at each other about some place called Marne and it was a horrible experience for everyone concerned. Then Ben drove into a large concrete curb, got air, and popped a tyre. So if I can avoid that it would be smashing.
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Once satnav has planned the route, tell it to travel via mitry-mory
Whatever system you use, this is still solid gold. The Pregnant Horse Parabola has never failed me once.
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On this subject, can anyone recommend an offline Euro GPS app for a smartphone?
HERE maps (https://m.here.com) did the job for us and has also previously got me from San Jose to Bishop. Even knows where Supermarkets and such are offline, I've been pretty impressed. You can choose what to download based on regions, countries or continents.
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Can't you cache maps in Googlemaps to use offline these days?
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Can't you cache maps in Googlemaps to use offline these days?
This ^^
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On this subject, can anyone recommend an offline Euro GPS app for a smartphone? Last time we were driving round the outskirts of Paris at one in the morning, with a useless road map, screaming at each other about some place called Marne and it was a horrible experience for everyone concerned. Then Ben drove into a large concrete curb, got air, and popped a tyre. So if I can avoid that it would be smashing.
Use the brilliant OSMAnd (http://osmand.net/) as you can load the UKbouldering POIs into it to aid navigation. There are two versions in the Play Store a free one (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand&hl=en_GB) with some restrictions and a paid version (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand.plus&hl=en_GB) (costs roughly two fuck-alls, although it was on sale for £0.10 around xmas, think I posted about the offer in the "Theres an App for That" thread, but its worth supporting OpenStreetMaps (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/14/why-the-world-needs-openstreetmap) I think ). Alternatively you can also install from the F-Droid Repository (https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=net.osmand.plus).
I used this to find our way down from the Jebel Burdah in Wadi Rum when we were a little late (4hrs) descending due to navigational problems on the climb (got lost and completely off-route and found our own way to the ridge). Someone had recorded the trail to/from the Bridge of Burdah using GPS and added it to the map and in conjunction with a headtorch and foot prints in the sand we found our way down safely.
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Can't you cache maps in Googlemaps to use offline these days?
This ^^
...is a ballache as you can only cache a limited amount and then have to think about it each time you're heading away. With OSMAnd you have to download in advance (theres no way round this for any map/GPS application), but its by country/region so you do a job lot in one go and forget about it. The maps can be stored on an external microSD to avoid eating into your internal storage whilst GoogleMaps uses internal (or did last time I used it).
Plus you can't add the UKBouldering POIs to Google Maps.
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Useful app, not sure if it's been posted before.
http://www.sytadin.fr/
I still maintain that if you hit Paris between 10am - 4pm or after 8pm you're quicker taking the peripherique.
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Useful app, not sure if it's been posted before.
http://www.sytadin.fr/
I still maintain that if you hit Paris between 10am - 4pm or after 8pm you're quicker taking the peripherique.
Having done the peripherique a few times now I would tend to agree
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Google Maps offline has improved but still isn't brilliant. it's easier to use than previously, now just search for somewhere, click on the bar and you should have a 'download' option. Slackers is right I don't think you can store offline maps on the SD card. Offline maps do expire however you can set them to auto update in settings. 'Keep' looks good, it's what was the Nokia Maps but I think it is now owned by BMW and others.
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after a few late night traffic jams in paris, i almost always bypass paris via (104) marne la valee, it's easy if you don't look at the map. as soon as you are off the a1 onto the 104 to marne la vallee, just follow the signs "A6 lyon" until you see "Melun" then follow that and the signs for fontainebleau proper.
if you want to go to Milly or Nemour, follow the signs for A6 Lyon a bit longer until their respective turnoffs
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On this subject, can anyone recommend an offline Euro GPS app for a smartphone? Last time we were driving round the outskirts of Paris at one in the morning, with a useless road map, screaming at each other about some place called Marne and it was a horrible experience for everyone concerned. Then Ben drove into a large concrete curb, got air, and popped a tyre. So if I can avoid that it would be smashing.
Actually it was Melun.
Horrible experience? The highlight was asking drug dealers somewhere south of Calais where we could get petrol before the 10km worth left evaporated. Sam spent the whole trip happily dozing in the back until a small 'bump' woke him up :whistle:
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Getting lost on the way to font is as much a part of the experience as getting shutdown on red10, spending all day in decathlon, drinking those little bottle of beer and eating sanding brie and gherkin baguettes.
I recall thinking we'd mastered it and not bothering with maps (this was pre satnav) or reading road signs on the drive back. It was only when one of us pointed out the window and said "I don't remember seeing that before!?" on seeing the Eiffel Tower that we realised we'd gone wrong.
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It was only when one of us pointed out the window and said "I don't remember seeing that before!?" on seeing the Eiffel Tower that we realised we'd gone wrong.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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A1 -> A104 -> N104 -> A6 is the way to go.
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Navigating the peripherique with a Collins map in my lap, on my tod, driving in a right hand drive van for the first time in a city at 5pm on a Friday must have taken years off my life. I kept ending up on the sliproad exits as I was hugging the far right, and had to push back into the traffic each time. In spite of the state of some of the vehicles mine was definitely older and heavier, so they usually relented after a lot of beeping.
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A1 -> A104 -> N104 -> A6 is the way to go.
A16 -> N104 -> A115 -> A86 - through the crazy letterbox tunnel - A6 is actually the way to go :tease:
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Crazy talk.
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If you compare Calais-Font and Calais-Milly in Google Maps you get quite different routes, which probably means their isn't much between them. Calais-Milly always seems to route round the 'Freak whatever time you tell it.
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I just enjoy the madness of the A86 tunnel - there's never any other cars on it, (probably due to the toll) but it gets you about 1/3 of the way round paris in tranquil solitude. Its quite scary going in though as you're convinced your going to take the roof off the car. (its really really low!)
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That tunnel is mad, I did it a transporter and couldn't help crouching in my seat. I've done all the routes suggested, my favourite is straight onto the periphique and round, exciting, scenic and direct!
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Anyone who doesn't take the peripherique is a gutless bastard. I'm not sober btw.
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I am sober, and I agree :)
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I dunno what is the exact best route, but my best Font tick was onsighting a good route around Paris with no deviations on my first driving trip to Font, on my own, after the overnight ferry, whilst my mate who had been several times had still ended up circling L'Arc De Triomphe when he went out a few days earlier. I'm taking the 7B flash.