UKBouldering.com
technical => computers, technology and the internet => Topic started by: Monolith on January 15, 2007, 10:39:20 am
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Being a complete non-entity in the PC specification stakes, I have no idea how to prioritise certain components in building my ideal machine. I'll need it to run AutoCAD, the Adobe CS suite, a vast library of typefaces and a lot of music. I would anticipate that RAM and an all singing graphics card take priority? I would like to buy the new Mac Book to replace my iBook G4, but am aware how quickly across the course of 5 years this will date and I need a machine to have a bit more longevity than current selection has. I'll need to keep hold of my Mac for purposes that the PC cannot fulfill however.
I already have a 300gb external hard drive, so hopefully won't need to spend to much in that department. Would a budget of 800 pounds anywhere near work towards what I would require? Perhaps that's more than enough, I just don't know having worked on laptops for so long.
Any help much appreciated.
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I use CAD (2005) loads for my degree and have it installed on the desktop im currently on and a laptop, had no problems with either and I'm sure you can get the same specs as the desktop for a whole lot less than 800 now. The university have it installed on some right pieces of crap and they work fine too. Hope this helps.
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The pentiumD CPU's are really cheap now the duo core has come out. £800 is plenty enough.
Here are some rough figures ( i am about to build 3 boxes like this for various people I know)
- PentiumD 945 2x3.4GHz = £110
- Socket 775 motherboard = £50
- 1 gig ddr2667 pc5400 memory = £70
- Reasonable Graphics card PCIe = £50
- Good Case = £50
- Fastest DVD+-R (18x) = £20
- 250 gig sata2 HDD = £50
- 19" monitor = £120
- Keyboard & mouse = £10
About £530ish for a complete, very fast set up
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I would suggest you get a dual core if you don't want to be totally left behind in 6-12 months. I would also suggest you stick to AMD as they run cooler, fail less, and represent better value for money. Also, if you are wanting to run all that graphics stuff I would recommend a good graphics card, perhaps somethign like this;
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/121055/rb/24475262802
And I would also suggest you buy 2 19" widescreen monitors because it will make life easier, they are so cheap now, and you will be the envy of all your friends. This would all come within £800.
And Jim, you can buy a computer with better specs than you named for less than you quote. If you know where to look you can get one via dell with a 3 year warranty for under £500 andn better spec than you mention. ;) Hope your "friends" don't read this forum.
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Cheers guys, I knew some computer heads would pipe up with the good shit. Pleasing also to hear it need not be as expensive as I had imagined.
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Fair enough, I'm a bit behind with all this stuff at the minute, core 2 duo have come down a fair bit since I last looked, throw another £30 and get a core 2 duo instead.
Uncle what do you base your opinion of intel and amd on?
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SCIENCE
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Show your workings Bradbury!
anyway you can't get better performance from dell for the money (assuming using core 2 duo instead of pentium D).
£560 total cost of home built pc.
closest dell is £530 for the 1.86 E6300 against the 2.13 E6400 core 2 duo cpu
slower DVD writer, smaller hard drive, slower memory, inferior graphix card.
The only advantage is you get winxp thrown in but who buys software these days (apart from buisiness) which is going to be replaced with vista very shortly anyway, or use linux
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This was up for £365;
Intel Pentium D processor 820 Dual core(2.8Ghz unconfirmed by me ) | 2GB Ram | 7x USB 2.0 | Memory card slot 9-in-1| FireWire / IEEE 1394 ports 2 | Graphics card NVIDIA GeForce 7300LE | Graphics card - video RAM 256MB | Hard drive 160GB | CD / DVD optical drive DVD writer DVD RAM and DVD±R/±RW (double layer)(lightscribe)
This was up for £478
AMD® Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005 (Incl Operating System Re-installation CD) - English
Collect & Return, 1 Year Service only
Dell 19" Value Flat Panel (E197FP) - UK/Irish
1024MB Dual Channel DDR2 533MHz [2x512] Memory
250GB (7200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst cache
16x DVD +/- RW Drive
128MB ATI® Radeon® X1300 PCI Express graphics card
:greed: :greed: :greed:
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both still a fair bit slower than my build and lower spec
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When you say a fair bit slower do you mean to say faster? If you would like to vist tom's hardware and compare your processor (pentiumD 945) with the Athlon X2 4200+ you'll find the athlon wins in nearly every test. Plus it's cheaper. And it runs cooler. And it can be overclocked further. It's simple Science.
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Instead of throwing around meaningless numbers prefixed by equally meaningless letters, maybe you two should settle this outside. I feel a drag race, with a distinctly German feel, would bring about the most satisfactory resolution.
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ha ha... great idea. But can it be on a dry day? And can you factor in the relative cost of our german machines? ie. Jim's was 3 times the cost of mine...
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It's out of my hands now I'm afraid. You'd have to speak to the relevant governing body.
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After much fannying around and tweaking, my UCAS application for Architecture is now in. Pending the result of the interview, I'll be scouring through your checklist Uncle and bagging that lot. Cheers for the knowledge.
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I had revised my cpu to the core 2 duo 6400 2.13, which I think you'll find is a hell of a lot faster than your athlon.
also I think you'll find my audi is a lot faster and higher spec than your VW, I've not even had mine remapped yet and will still easily win in a race wether that be straight line, round a track, in the wet or in the dry.
Also you'll find that planet Jim is a lot better place to live although it is by strict invitation only.
I must admit the dell stuff is really good value but its still cheaper and better to build your own (also more fun if you enjoy building stuff, its like lego for adults!)
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I hate the way that Dell advertise systems for £299!!!!!!!!! and by the time you have specced to any reasonable level (changing a CD-ROM to a DVD-RW for example) it's strangely £700! Does anyone else get away with charging £60 for 'delivery'?
From previous experience, you don't save a lot building your own machine, but you do get to spec it out how you want it. If your can't be bothered to build it but still want a high spec budget machine look out for weird specials like the ones Aldi (yes the cheap supermarket!) have from time to time, this one was from before xmas http://www.computeractive.co.uk/computeractive/hardware/2170180/Medion they always get good reviews. Big names such as Dell do not equal reliable computers. We have room full of Dells that regularly go pop for various reasons.
Or forget all that and save up for a new Intel Mac. I recon they will be around a lot longer than most new PC's Vista sounds so power hungry I think people will need 10gig of RAM before long! WinXP on Parallels or Bootcamp screams along. Best of both worlds? Tis true.
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[random post to avoid my 'number of posts' equally the Number of the Beast!] :devangel: :guilty:
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Dell have bargains, just not on their front page or through normal channels. You have to be shrewd.
Jim, indeed, that is a fast processor, but I would take an athlon x2 5000+ instead. However, since we are having a battle of ego's here, tell me what you could build this system for... assuming your time is worth nothing;
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400
2048MB DDR2 533
500Gb SATA
256MB ATI Radeon X1300 PRO
DVD-ROM Reader
DVD+/-RW Reader 16x Dual Drive
Sound Blaster Audigy
We shall forego the 3year warranty. Don't forget to include a decent PSU and case! Decent motherboard supporting 4gb of ram, if not 8gb. I look forward to your results, not because I want to destroy you, but because I am genuinely interested. :kiss1:
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assuming your time is worth nothing
I've seen Jim building computers, its like greased lightning. His hams act as insulators so he has no need of any anti-static precautions.
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...if not 8gb.
It's happening already... :wall:
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I should add that I don't recommend vista. It is full of crap. It does look nice and is a fun upgrade, but totally ridiculous if you look upon it as a performance related upgrade. For that, look to linux or some custom install's of XP.
I would still say that mac's are way overpriced and now they are intel based offer no distinct architectural advantages. Better to just run linux on a PC.
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also I think you'll find my audi is a lot faster and higher spec than your VW, I've not even had mine remapped yet and will still easily win in a race wether that be straight line, round a track, in the wet or in the dry.
Also you'll find that planet Jim is a lot better place to live although it is by strict invitation only.
Here you go again spraying your mouth off about things that are most definitely untrue. I know your car is putting out 180bhp/273 lb ft torque, has 4 wheel drive, and weighs 1600kg. My car is rockign 175bhp, 280 lb ft torque, is measly 2wd, but weighs 1500kg. I am not even going to try and debate that in the wet your car will kill me. However, in all other conditions, i would say your car is no faster (but it did cost loads more).
and as for planet Jim? I can do without the gut, without the injury's, without the mortgage, without the ongoing loft conversion, etc etc. Need I go on? You know why you're king of planet Jim? cause you're the only one stuck there! :lol:
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can we rename this thread Uncle vs Jim?
don't forget your figures are estimates and are almost certainly inflated by the tuning companies, mine are factory figures which normally tend to be lower than actuals, also I've got a boost leak to fix and then its remap time! :thumbsup:
I'll have a look at that pc build. How much have you been quoted so far? and what do you need all that ram for?
DVD writers are now up to 18x and I presume you want sata2
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Car figures are definitely on the conservative side from the dyno's of the remapped cars I've seen! Once you remap I will have no chance, but you always seem to ignore the fact your car cost 3 times what mine did... and it didn't come with heated mirrors, or an armrest, etc etc.... ;)
As for the PC build. I'll give you the price once you've crunched some numbers. Sata2 isn't strictly necessary... Don't need 18x either... but must be dual layer. I await with baited breathe...
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Car figures are definitely on the conservative side from the dyno's of the remapped cars I've seen! Once you remap I will have no chance, but you always seem to ignore the fact your car cost 3 times what mine did... and it didn't come with heated mirrors, or an armrest, etc etc.... ;)
There's a good reason for it......
its 3 times the car ;)
mine now has heated mirrors and an armrest
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mine now has heated mirrors and an armrest
be careful what you boast about Jim, my Volvo had an arm rest, and CLM gave me a flat cap when I first got it.
It'll be a factory fitted 'nice cup of cocoa and some carpet slippers' next.
(http://www.baba-store.com/Blog%20images/slippers1-web.jpg)
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can't beat a good pair of slippers. have you seen CLM in a flat cap? Its pure genius, he could really be a farmer
anyway
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 = £146
2048MB DDR2 533 = £130 ish although you can get ddr2 800 for the same money
500Gb SATA = £126
256MB ATI Radeon X1300 PRO = £51
DVD-ROM Reader = £10 but why?
DVD+/-RW Reader 16x Dual Drive = £20
Sound Blaster Audigy = onboard
motherboard = between £50 and £70 depending exactly what you want
cases = from £30 all with 350W+ most with 400W
about £560
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that's a pretty good price, but a case and PSU for £30 sounds very skanky to me. A decent PSU is atleast £30 on it's own. You forgot to add prices for fans, cables, etc. Anyhow, if we budget a lowly £40 for PSU + case the grand total is £593. Unfortunately, dell have that same spec for £517 including a legal copy of windows (who cares, i know) and a 1 year warranty. And for your information, 2 DVD drives is crucial, since you can copy on the fly which doubles efficiency...
3 times the car and it didn't come with standard features that mine did... ha ha ha...
Don't mess with the hulk Jim, you'll only get crushed.
(http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs10/300W/i/2006/087/a/0/hulk_by_nomichs.jpg)
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I don't see a pc as good as mine from Dell though. £150 from Jim. And your car has never cruised me to font quite as well as either of Jim's. Suffice to say I'm rooting for Jim here; you;re dealing in rhetoric, Jim in reality. Welcome to Jim's world.
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jim. where did you get your audi? jim.
forget heated mirrors. heated seats are where it's at.
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Rhetoric; from the greek for teacher. I guess you're living in Jim's world too JB?
If people didn't know Jim and I were off on holiday together in a couple of weeks they could easily think we are sworn enemies.
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a romantic holiday none the less! Still doesn't mean were not enemies tho :spank:
I really miss my heated seats, especially now I've got full leather :'(
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How about an armwrestle?
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some one in the office just asked me "what are you laughing so hard about?"
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and then they commented:
"..and why do you have an erection..?"
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I think you should both have £300 each to build/buy a computer of you choice. You then use CAD to do a complete schematic diagram of your car and engine. Then get in your cars and race your entries to a judging panel comprised of university boffins. The final decision will factor in the speed of delivery (on a dry day of course).
I am happy to run a book. Starting prices - Jim 5/4, Uncle 3/1.
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I think uncle really needs to be looking here (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/careers/gateway/portal?c=uk&l=en&s=corp&redirect=1)
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ps sorry monolith for hijacking your thread but its really kept me going today
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Forgive him monolith, this forum is all he has.
Can't believe i'm the outsider, but I suppose it works out better for me because I win more when I place my entire life savings on myself to win (I would suggest the same Jim but all yours is sitting on your driveway)
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you've always been an outsider
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I'd have had him down as more of an insider.
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No forgiveness necessary boys. A wad point each for making me piss myself laughing. Think when it comes to the build I'll commission one of you two to do it. Probably have to decide by virtue of whichever one of you louts wins this dual thats been set up!
Uncle are you still alive dude? Have to hookup soon in some form.
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Man, I didn't realise these 19" widescreens had become so cheap. So which of the various suggested setups am I to trust? Jim have you won this argument, or have you Uncle?
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depends what your after and what stuff you already have.
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stuff after- everything
stuff have - 300gb external hard drive
Really, I'd just like to know which of the setups will be the most future-proof inasmuch as one can be. Anything has to be better than the shelf-life of an ibook.
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One man finds gold, the other diamonds. Who has won?
But seriously, you can do this Monolith. Just spend (waste) some days researching what you're buying and you won't go wrong. You might end up spending £100 too much but it's not the end of the world... look at Jim, he's doing alright considering the money he's squandered.
As I said, 2 widescreen monitors (£120 each with decent spec), 2gb ram (because running autocad, adobe suite, etc together will be easy), monstrous graphics card with 2 DVI outputs preferably (£250). Good luck.
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Anything has to be better than the shelf-life of an ibook.
I beg to differ, we have 5 year old iMacs that still happily edit movies. Not many 5 year old PC's could edit movies in the first place.
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definately get the core 2 duo chip and make sure the motherboard has PCIe (i'm sure it will have)
make sure you get DDR2 memory and try and get a motherboard that supports the fastest type
I would custom build one but then I always have. The advantage is you can build it a bit at a time and upgarde bits as you go along
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If your can't be bothered to build it but still want a high spec budget machine look out for weird specials like the ones Aldi (yes the cheap supermarket!) have from time to time...
like this one...
http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/productnl_132.html
Just in case anyone is in the market for a PC currently.
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Cheers for the shout Obi. Sadly I have no idea what all these letters after the individual component names actually stand for. I'm going to leave it in Uncle or Jim's hands come the time for purchase.
Incidentally, I got accepted for Architecture at Liverpool this coming year (which was what the whole point of this thread was for). Told by the course administrators that they get between 700-900 applications for 70 places, so I'm completely psyched that everything went swimmingly at interview.Doing a second undergrad degree is going to be pretty intense I imagine, but completely amazing.
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Congrats Mono. How many years is the course?
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Cheers. 3 years undergrad, 1 year placement, 2 years grad study, 1 year industry then onwards. Sounds exhausting? I have no doubt it will be. But of course, completely rewarding.