UKBouldering.com
the site => site notices and updates => Topic started by: Bubba on October 18, 2006, 09:54:08 am
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If somebody gives you bad karma, that doesn't mean it's a reason for you to return it.
Also, there must be a proper reason given for dishing out karma.
I have deleted some recent entries and adjusted the scores accordingly.
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Thanks Bubba. There is not way i am going to take bad Karma off people that give it to me just for the hell of it.
If deserved, i will take it on the chin.
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hmmmm... this is interesting. Personally, I don't think Karma should be policed. That's the whole point of Karma isn't it? If you do something bad to someone then one day something bad will happen to you. ie. Sum total of all good imparted will equal sum total of all good recieved. I think if people want to be petty then let them, because it's all recorded and it will give an insight into such matters.
I can understand your concern about it getting out of hand, but perhaps just let it slide...
can you hear me big brother?? CAN YOU!!?!?! ;)
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Yes, I can hear you, calm down :)
If it's not policed then it would end up like it was before which was just mayhem.
This is only the 2nd time I've ever edited it, so it's not exactly big brother.
If somebody gives me a "-" because I was posting like a twat, that doesn't mean I should automatically give them a "-" back. If it always works like that then nobody would ever give negative karma and it would just read like one big love-in all the time.
But, I do take your point about petty behaviour being highlighted and maybe you're right on that score.
My main problem are with votes that don't give a real reason. If you don't like somebody that's not enough of a reason to "-" them - they've actually got to have done something wrong.
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Is karma broken at the moment?
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I've not noticed any tit for tat voting, but then I don't look at the karma stats very often. I do find the way its working at the moment fairly okay though and we shouldn''t get too hung up about getting a bit of -ve karma (or indeed some +ve karma). It's not life and death, just a prompt to remind us that maybe we should take more care when posting.
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Is karma broken at the moment?
No, it's ok, but the server was being a bit weird overnight and stopped some links from working.
I've restarted everything now. I'm hoping it's not the new php cache that's misbehaving.
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I've no idea what it means, but at least it was for a reason.
Perhaps Dense can enlighten us.
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twopenneth
karma sux
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Well, you can never please everyone.
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Could be completely unrelated but it might be something to do with the comments on this UKC thread:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=207929
bluebrad
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I've no idea what it means, but at least it was for a reason.
Perhaps Dense can enlighten us.
I dont think Dense liked me refering to Ben Bransby as "The Bransby" Maybe only he is allowed to do that?
I was providing useful input to the thread, and got slated for it....
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I think he was more bothered about your statement that he always open hands
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I think he was more bothered about your statement that he always open hands
And doesnt he? (mostly) Whenever ive seen him climb he does, and i know people (Am i allowed to say this?) who climb with him lots, and they have commented on it in the past.....
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Ok, ok - please forget whether Bransby open hands or not - it's really not *that* important, is it. I'll remove denses vote and adjust your score Adam.
Karma is also here as part of my great plan to get the community to be self-policing. I will be introducing a "karma ban" which will be something along the lines of:
If your karma balance hits -25 then you'll get banned from the community.
I don't have time to read every topic across this board, ukcaving.com and the other board I run, so it's an easy way of weeding out troublemakers. That's why I have to occasionally police the karma logs to see that nobody is being being given bad karma for invalid or stupid reasons.
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The problem with Karma is that it highlights the whole problem with forums - folk always misconstrue or misinterpret because text is a very undemonstrative way of communicating. Likewise folk will make assumptions about others without any evidence. Hence I get dissed for 'making tedious yorkshire remarks' which the beefee assumes (i can only assume) stem from sheffield prejudice rather than living and climbing in leeds for 2 years...
Start correcting stuff and it'll never end.
Plus, in Dense's, Idol eyes and other's defences, its far more fun to have folk posting stuff which greatly amuses some even if it may offend others. Its all a question of context, if you don't understand don't be too quick to judge, otherwise we lose all the characters. I don't like the idea of karma-generated auto-bans, its bad enough at present and it doesn't mean anything...
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anyone who takes to heart something written on the internet shouldn't bother reading or posting on forums
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Quite, its not as if we're sat round in a pub where everyone knows what is a joke and what is serious, is it? Or is it?
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Quite, its not as if we're sat round in a pub where everyone knows what is a joke and what is serious, is it? Or is it?
ha ha ha ha ha ha... genius.
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Which is exactly the point - what appears to be a straightforward statement to a stranger may in fact be a hilarious joke. I know this kind of thing can seem frustratingly cliquey to others but can you really expect to know folk you haven't met? Anyway isn't UKB filling the void left by the lack of a good sheffield-orientated rag like The Thing or OTE? Hands up who hasn't yet heard the story of Buoux being ordered to stop 'starting' on Dense by Moon?
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yeah your right, its easy in person to work out when people are joking and when they're not.
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Hands up who hasn't yet heard the story of Buoux being ordered to stop 'starting' on Dense by Moon?
(http://www.summbears.k12.ca.us/images/hand-up.jpg)
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i'm not so sure about this automatic ban either, if the karma isnt reset say once every now and again long time users who pick up the odd negative point may be banned?
I agree that if people take whatever is said on here or other forums to heart it REALLY isn't the place for them, it is extremely difficult to tell sarcasm from a dig on the internet, just take all buoux's postings that have been widely misconstrued and led to some quite heated debates.
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I know the karma system isn't perfect. It's never going to please everyone and as JB says, it's easy to misinterpret banter and take it the wrong way.
I'm only talking about bans if your karma balance get's too out of line. Eg, suppose user a) had -100 and +25. I might then consider a temporary ban...but then I might not...it was only a suggestion.
Fuck knows, it's hard to get the balance right with these things. Maybe like gruff says, it should just run and forget about it, then it's just a bit of fun and it can be a source of amusement for somebody who's bored to read the karma comments.
And of course, it could just be scrapped, but I'm quite fond of it personally so I'm keen to leave it in place a while longer.
All thoughts welcome of course...
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I think that when times are good and the food supply is plentiful that karma should just be left to run and it shouldn't be policed in any way. If people want to give negative karma for a daft reason then let them. However, when winter settles in and the days draw short, when food becomes scarce and the tundra is frozen several inches deep it becomes a different matter. If someone appears on ukb and is clearly making a prick of themselves or abusing people then I'm sure the members of ukb will rise like a pack of wilderbeast and all rise to get rid of the bad seed. This could be done in the form of x amount of negative karma in y time frame. Say if someone got -10 in 12 hours then it's a passage to being banned. That way it would essentially be self policing but it would also run on it's own and people who might rack up a lot of negative karma over a long period are in no danger...
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Like the time-frame idea a lot.
I never envisaged it being done purely on the basis of -ve karma, rather the balance between +ve and -ve.
Like you say, the ukb wilderbeast usually trample the bad out of existence. I've actually had to ban < 10 people over the 5 years (ish) that this place has existed, which is quite cool really.
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Hands up who hasn't yet heard the story of Buoux being ordered to stop 'starting' on Dense by Moon?
Another hands up. There are 922 members of this forum (from the front page), I realise that most of the longest and most vocal members are from sheffield area/scene and know each other, so it might seem to people in the group that 'everyone' knows a certain story, but most people on this forum won't, even if most posts are by people who do. :-\
I think karma is a good thing :thumbsup:, and at worst isn't a bad thing. When it was new it was overused a bit, but now it's settled, and it also, overtime will come to represent who contributes a lot to the site, ie if Bonjoy gets a Wadpoint or two everytime he gives a useful bit of info out he ends up with a big plus figure, even if he gets a few minuses for dragging topics off on an unrelated fruit tangent. Other forums I frequent use karma in a different way, to basically let people who contribute a lot know that their efforts are appreciated. Ie someone PMs someone a topo for some problems, or gives you some good info on a place to go, or is putting time and effort into rebolting, give them some karma.
So some people are going to misinterpret what people type, sarcasm or dig, irony is lost, etc. This happens in conversations, people say things that sound different to what they meant, people mishear things, etc. At least when you're posting something because it takes longer you can actually think more about what you're saying, and before you hit that post button, you can review it.
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Hands up who hasn't yet heard the story of Buoux being ordered to stop 'starting' on Dense by Moon?
(http://www.forparentsbyparents.com/images/mychild/boy_hand_up.jpg)
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I think that when times are good and the food supply is plentiful that karma should just be left to run and it shouldn't be policed in any way. If people want to give negative karma for a daft reason then let them. However, when winter settles in and the days draw short, when food becomes scarce and the tundra is frozen several inches deep it becomes a different matter. ........ rise like a pack of wilderbeast
Wildebeest? On a frozen Tundra? Interesting extended analogy, but Caribou would probably be more capable of rising, whereas a wildebeest would probably spend more time wondering what all this white stuff is.
Bit like hunting tigers in Africa.
Which is where I will be next week.
As I'm sure I've mentioned.
Several times.
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Bit like hunting tigers in Africa.
Which is where I will be next week.
Chris, did you get my PM?
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yes, just emailed you direct @ukbouldering?
Easier to do in the office, as I dont need to be online.
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Cheers Chris. Not got it yet mind - hopefully my rather over-zealous spam catchers haven't busted it...
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Eek. Clearly my attempt to imitate Mr. Bellamy has been exposed as very weak! Anyhow.
The reason you can't set a solid number of negative karmas to equal a ban is that when you look at what happens as time tends to infinity, everyone will get banned. For example, I have 1 negative karma, and I easily see myself getting more. However, in 18 months I may have 25 which means a ban. That is clearly stupid. Everyone will get negative karma at some point or another (except maybe you bubba) and so over a long time span everyone will get banned. I think that karma should be a rolling 12 month tally or that a huge influx of negative karma over a short time span should lead to a ban.
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I never said that, I said your karma *balance*, ie +ve karma total - -ve karma total.
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Forgive me if I'm totally wrong here, but the balance thing is an even worse idea! Say I currently have +4/-1 which I do. If I then got another +40 I would have a big imbalance. Would I get banned? ;)
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Hows about we ban pedantic mullets with poor natural history knowledge?
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Forgive me if I'm totally wrong here, but the balance thing is an even worse idea! Say I currently have +4/-1 which I do. If I then got another +40 I would have a big imbalance. Would I get banned? ;)
No you buffoon ;)
I mean if you had +1 and -40 then that's a problem balance - neg balance, not pos!
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and for anyone who's still very confused here's bubba's first post on the subject which still explains exactly what it means.
which will be something along the lines of:
If your karma balance hits -25 then you'll get banned from the community.
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If you get bad karma then I think you should totally get the reason for it.
Because you can then make a list of all the bad things you've done.
And then you can just try to be a better person.
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Because you can then make a list of all the bad things you've done.
And then you can just try to be a better person.
Damn right...
(http://www.popmatters.com/tv/reviews/m/images/my-name-is-earl-050920.jpg)
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Hey cheers bud, you've prompted me to look this up. You know that bit at the start where you get a glimpse of the list. My eye was always drawn to `wasted electricity' (which is a nice adage for modern living) and I could never work out what the rest of them on there were... ...until now:
(http://homepage.mac.com/ryaninja/.Public/blogstuff/earls_list.jpg)
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If you have a higher than 25+ karma balance, will you get automatically sublimated to a higher realm?
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of suspended animation perhaps?
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If you have a higher than 25+ karma balance, will you get automatically sublimated to a higher realm?
of suspended animation perhaps?
That depends on whether you've been a good boy... (Taught Dawes a thing or two about crucifix moves...)
(http://rosarycreations.com/gloriousascension.jpg)
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If you have a higher than 25+ karma balance, will you get automatically sublimated to a higher realm?
you already are on a higher realm bonjoy.
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let the beatification of bubba begin..
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And Lo! HE was beatified!
(http://www.campjellystone.com/images/booboo_1.gif)
(Oh! My mistake! You mean Bubba...)
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Removed by me...
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you will have to forgive me for not replying earlier i have been away. gruff you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about me for some reason, i realise i probably come across as a tosser on the web but in real life i'm sure you'll find me much worse. i don't think anybody should be banned from this forum at all. i do think some people should be banned from crags and computers tho, not you btw gruff.
it seems a lot of furore has been caused by me giving adam lincoln -ve karma for saying "because he thinks he knows people". can i not give out bad karma? this had nothing to do with him calling ben "the bransby" in any way.
i gave it him for a variety of reasons
1)going on about him sitting next to sharma and saying chris says hi
2)his fantasy winter ticklist
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i realise i probably come across as a tosser on the web but in real life i'm sure you'll find me much worse. i don't think anybody should be banned from this forum at all. i do think some people should be banned from crags and computers tho,
:lol:
Dense you do bake some of the finest rants.
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as cheesy as it sounds; I just go climbing for the fun of it.
I think most of us on here do really. A few people get a bit too caught up in the whole thing and feel superior but they're not really worth worrying about imho.
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you will have to forgive me for not replying earlier i have been away. gruff you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about me for some reason, i realise i probably come across as a tosser on the web but in real life i'm sure you'll find me much worse. i don't think anybody should be banned from this forum at all. i do think some people should be banned from crags and computers tho, not you btw gruff.
it seems a lot of furore has been caused by me giving adam lincoln -ve karma for saying "because he thinks he knows people". can i not give out bad karma? this had nothing to do with him calling ben "the bransby" in any way.
i gave it him for a variety of reasons
1)going on about him sitting next to sharma and saying chris says hi
This is a private joke i have with Chris (Doyle) and perhaps it came across as how you interpreted it... Fair enough.....
2)his fantasy winter ticklist
Whats wrong with my fantasy winter tick list?
1)going on about him sitting next to sharma and saying chris says hi
This is a private joke i have with Chris (Doyle) and perhaps it came across as how you interpreted it... Fair enough.....
2)his fantasy winter ticklist
Whats wrong with my fantasy winter tick list?
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I think there's too much + karma about at the moment, a lot coming from me, I'll admit. Time for more smitement people. Sod this Xmas pish.
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So predictable jfw, though hardly a valid reason ;)
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Bubba, i totally object to Moo's twat karma comment about me. This keeps going on. I didnt have to post link to pics. In future, i wont bother.
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Also, there must be a proper reason given for dishing out karma.
So why does "twat" warrant proper reason for dishing out Karma?
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No, do bother. It was a good picture of Tyler's actual ascent of Dreamtime sit down, which is really good to see. Noticed it last night and find it hard to see how you can give negative karma for it. If Bonjoy or Johnny Brown had posted the same thing I don't think they would have been getting -ve for it.
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No, do bother.
What, and get abuse for it....!
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No, do bother.
What, and get abuse for it....!
F*ck it. The karma thing ain't the end of the world. Okay it's nice to get positive karma, but just because some people who you don't get on with you (I am making a presumtion there since I know neither of you) transfer their dislike or disagreement on-line, just let it wash over you. Admittedly I think the tw*t comment is a bit harsh, but it's only a internet forum at the end of the day. Fiend gave me negative for being tangental in one of his threads and before the karma was reset I got a bit of negative karma for slagging off gorilla warfare. Who cares really? It should be treated fairly tongue in cheek right?
Feel free to disagree, obviously.
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No, do bother.
What, and get abuse for it....!
F*ck it. The karma thing ain't the end of the world.
I dont care, but i do care for equal rule following.
Rules state no tit for tat voting - Fair enough. But rules also state that it should be a valid reason.....
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True words. I wad thee thus.
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Rules state no tit for tat voting - Fair enough. But rules also state that it should be a valid reason.....
Agreed, no-one likes unfairness. But again, it's just a forum and maybe someone has been unfair to you, but you just need to ignore it. I'd guess that the more fuss you kick up, the more likely someone is to go and "punter" you a bit more just to get a reaction.
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Get over it. Life is Pain. (Eh, Stubbs?)
Mr. Lincoln. Have you ever smoked marijuana?
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Get over it. Life is Pain. (Eh, Stubbs?)
Ah I was wondering if you had missed that one, I was sure you'd know about the four noble truths.... ;D
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1: Life means suffering.
2: The origin of suffering is attachment.
3: The cessation of suffering is attainable.
4: The path to the cessation of suffering.*
Mildly interesting, as hogwash goes, grasshopper.
(*Though I have enjoyed a particularly good problem on Koh Tao called "The Middle Way".)
(http://www.power-snob.de/gallery1/images/050.JPG)
Everything's connected, some say.
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Hey man, if it works for Sharma....
I think the Noble eightfold path is more interesting hogwash too
1. Right understanding
2. Right intention
3. Right speech
4. Right action
5. Right livelihood
6. Right effort
7. Right mindfulness
8. Right concentration
Easy to write, harder to do....
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Met the guy (Shamra) but once. He noticed I run around like the proverbial blue-arsed fly climbing everything I could see.
To which he said: Y'know man, have you like, ever considered climbing just a little bit, y'know like, just a little bit every day?
Which for a full-time fully-wedged climber (whose probably never even heard of a mastic gun or a Tirfor) I thought pretty rich.
I'd say he failed at step one.
I hope he's improved by now.
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Hands up who hasn't yet heard the story of Buoux being ordered to stop 'starting' on Dense by Moon?
i've read the whole thread hoping to find the story so can somebody please tell it? (another 15' of my life wasted)
btw: i hate it when i can't figure out how something works so here we go: how can you give karma? :shrug:
BD
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You have to have posted 50 times before you can give karma.