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the shizzle => news => Topic started by: fashionguru on March 04, 2006, 10:06:36 am
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Just thought Id let every one know that yesterday Tony Simpson poped out to Turning stones for a couple of hours and managed to crab what he thinks is the second ascent of K.Youths "River of Life" V12 or 8a +, confirming the grade and most excellent problem.
One thing Tony wants to point out though is that he feels if Jame's recents points are true regards grades of some problems then we will have to look at this one carefully.
Ache Ball only V9 - Tony says this problem is not that much differnt in grade mybe 1 grade different but for him when he repeated Ache Ball he thought soft 8a. As for Enter the Dragon - He could not touch it so does that then make River of Life easier than V9/ 7c?
Tony states Grades are very subjective and are differnt in all areas and all over the world we as a climbing group need to be very carefull with all the technology advancements and new training methods producing better and more powerfull climbers does that mean that all problems that were climbed before these methods are easeir than when they were first put up. We also have to look at the way in which the crags are degrading both naturally and with traffic as holds do become larger/smaller with time but do we have to allways put the person whos problem it was down by shooting them down in flames about overgrading!!!!!
T.S Nice one James great problem (shame about the excesive seepage) but lets hope the grade stays where it should do V12 as it is F****** hard mate.
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you are tony simpson so why all the 3rd person talk.
James told me that he fell of the last move of enter the dragon, and that it was probably v9, he stated that he didnt do it cause he cut his thumb.
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Hi Simon,
The reason for that 3rd person talk was infact because it was not me.
I do not have a computer atr the moment and am currently using a friends.
I asked them to post for me and gave them my details hope this helps clear things up.
As for James not doing Enter the Dragon I did not question why or why not he did not do it just the grade.
I tried this when Mike Adams repeated it very late on last year. Mike is no slouch as you probably know and it was full on for him to repeat it. I on the other I could not touch it.
Does that mean River of Life is less than V9? it must be if "ETD" is such a grade. This seams to me what everybody is doing with Grades now.
Can you remember Adams little flow chart of Ru's grading system? has everyone taken this to enthdegree?
I personally agree with James thinking that "ETD" is a crap looking line but does that make it any less worth while than anyother problem in the peaks. And what is pleasing to me is not to others, so can you see why people are getting so uptight about what is being written on these sites. Some people think "ROL" is shit because it nearly always wet, but to me it is one of the most impressive things I have seen and done in a long time.
If all everyone wants to do now to make a name for themself is to belittle everyone else and go for one upmanship then fine get on withit but then when it turns round and bites you back dont go complaining.
All I was trying to do with the comments about grading was to make people see that all this bitching is doing nothing for the sport and our grading system should be expanding not being closed down.
Hope you are happy with that reply as I will not be posting again for a while.
Tony
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it wasn't you?? ha ha
the whole downgrading thing is getting a bit ridiculous to be honest but hey its been going on for years, and just cause one person gives their grade opinion doesnt mean its right, as the masses know. You have to have done as much as dave graham to start giving definitives. i think justin plumtree did ETD last week also. i may be wrong.
good effort on ROL
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Well, here is my twopeneth All I go on is how it felt for me and how long it took. Examples:
Few tries
Big boss 7c
Full Power 7c+
Tsunami 7c+
Ache ball (damp) 7c
Aching balls 7c+
Le toit du greau 7c+
Westwood 7c+
Le arete de boisy 7c+
Few Days
Hats for youths 8a
Dark horse 7c+/8a
Steep sharma arete 8a
Big dragon 8a
Lots of days (5+)
The buttermilker 8a+
River Of Life 8a+
Granted there are iregularities, but on the whole there is a pretty strong pattern.
Regarding Enter the dragon, I worked out the moves and fell off the top slopers on my first link attempt. On my next go I ripped a 5p sized flapper off my left thumb. Tried again but covered the starting hold in blood and tore another bloody fapper so gave up. Now, I know I didnt do it, but I feel I can confidently say, for me, it didnt feel that hard. You had a good few sessions on ROL so im sure that if you tried ETD a little more, with good beta, and your current good form, you would find it ok.
I would love to be able to boulder 8a+ in a few goes, have a fast car, a lot of money, gold toilet seat, 8 inch foundry mat, self dignity 3 inch penis,
big biceps, be black, big triceps, a good man to love, a house in font, a house in swiz, a house, a mullett................
.........a falabella.......................a record deal................. some friends....................Love.......
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...
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able to boulder 8a+ in a few goes, have a gold toilet seat, self dignity 3 inch penis,
big biceps, big triceps, a good man to love, a mullett................
.........a falabella........................
do you want to be uncle?
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I personally agree with James thinking that "ETD" is a crap looking line but does that make it any less worth while than anyother problem in the peaks. And what is pleasing to me is not to others, so can you see why people are getting so uptight about what is being written on these sites. Some people think "ROL" is shit because it nearly always wet, but to me it is one of the most impressive things I have seen and done in a long time.
There only seems to be one person 'bitching' on 'these sites' from where i'm sitting.
If all everyone wants to do now to make a name for themself[,] is to belittle everyone else and go for one upmanship then fine get on with it but then when it turns round and bites you back dont go complaining.
Have I missed something? I thought I'd read James give his honest opinion on the grade and quality of a problem. Now it's all everyone wants to do is belittle everyone else etc.
All I was trying to do with the comments about grading was to make people see that all this bitching is doing nothing for the sport and our grading system should be expanding not being closed down.
Opinions differ Tony, it's called debate. You have decided to label it bitching, thrown a few self righteous insulting remarks about and then accused everyone else of damaging the sport with the things they say. Do you see no irony in that ?
Do I hear banjos...?
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I don't see the problem with people giving their honest opinion of a grade, which is what James does. As an example, I have to admit to being a bit miffed when he thought The Terrace was 7b+ because personally I thought it was hard, but then I did see him piss all over it with possibly the shoddiest display of footwork I've seen :wink: It obviously wasn't a problem for him and he was just telling it how it felt, to him.
I'm sure this is the case with his comments on EtD. I'm not up to a short V12 and I didn't even try it, but I've seen and tried a lot of stuff of a similar difficulty, and I'll stick my neck out and say that I reckon James is probably nearer the mark gradewise on this. Hey maybe he's undergrading again and its really V10/11, but I reckon you've really got to be sticking your neck into space to say this is as hard as Careless, Inertia Reel Trav, Full Power, or only one grade easier than stuff like Voyager, The Ace, Walk Away.
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I don't see the problem with people giving their honest opinion of a grade, which is what James does.
No neither do I.
Although from sitting behind your computer - and not being privy to the all the emotion based pub talk those in Sheffield are - most of what both James and Keith write on these forums regarding the grades of problems, does comes over as though they are proclaiming it as gospel rather than a personal view.
Not a dig just a little observation from those afar.
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...most of what both James and Keith write on these forums regarding the grades of problems, does comes over as though they are proclaiming it as gospel rather than a personal view.
Very fair point, that is how it comes across sometimes. However they are kept in check by people telling them when the're wrong. This only tends to happen in Sheffield pubs I'm afraid! Which isn't very often either because finding either one in a pub is pretty rare. :roll:
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Just a quick question which Tony Simpson is the Tony Simpson above?
Can some one also explain tautology.
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thanks I'm truly very grateful
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I thought a tautology was something that was true by definition? 'A bachelor is a single man' for instance?
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I thought a tautology was something that was true by definition? 'A bachelor is a single man' for instance?
I truly and totally believe you both to be correct and right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology
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"a bachelor is a single man" isn't a tautology. that is its definition after all.
a "single bachelor" would be however.
as would the feline cat, the religious priest, or the effiminate hairdresser...
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do we have any breaking news yet?
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tautology is literally "of the same meaning"
so basically anything that adds no information or knowledge to a question or a statement.
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just been informed that bonjoy did it today, but unlike me doesn't like to blow his own trumpet. nice one his gooseness
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Andy Banks beat me to it by minutes also. Brilliant prob, best grit roof i've ever done for sure.
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apparently Prince had his lower ribs removed so he could blow his own trumpet. nice one to banksy and goosebumps. c'est magnifique.
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shit, didn't realise that. nice one andy as well. where these both one day ascents?
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where these both one day ascents?
both at turningstone. in the peaks.
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Congrats to Jon and Andy. Fine, and fast, ascents. I'm sure those who experienced the peak today won't believe that there was a load of dry rock at Turningstone. An amazing crag. Potentially it may have had another ascent by some unknown who turned up as we were leaving.
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Will this be dry tomorrow? Is it still 8a+?
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It could very well be dry tomorrow but it was snowing very heavily in matlock this evening. Roads could be terrible.
Ru, this problem is definitely height dependant and I think could be much harder for the shorter limbed folks. I did have a go today and, although I didn't do it, and I will come accross as a loser for saying this, I think it's probably 8A. Then again, I didn't do it so my opinion is worthless. If you go, can you let me know if it was dry.
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Nib I believe you are correct and right.
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This is a great problem, with fantastic satisfying moves.
were these both one day ascents?
This was the first time I had tried it, so yes a one session ascent, and I think the same for John, but I'm not 100% certain.
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Fine ascents by both members of the party. They went to Turningstone Edge good climbers and came back great climbers. Hats off.
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I remember trying this back when i was slimmer with James before he did it. only had a few goes because I quickly realised that it is nails and I couldn't get anywhere on it. really hard body tension moves on the steepest of rock. Well done to both of you, Andy and Jon - your both down as beasts in my book now.
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and obese in mine
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Hats off to whoever captioned the photo in this month's Climb.
'Andy Banks repeating River of Life Goose (Font 8a+) Turningstone Edge'
Has Bonjoy been offering Fi's holiday spends to Peak correspondents in return for the written goose? It certainly makes you wonder...
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Or has it just become a Peak-based tourettes-esque syndrome?
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I'll blow some more trumpets - Monkey boy and (woz) also repeated this a while ago (though after Bonjoy and Andy). They both thought it was 8a I think, and said it was excellent. Good work people!
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I can only assume Climb's proofreading team is headed by stevie wonder and david blunkett.
and they've outdone rupert with regard to peak downgrading - Blind Fig 7b+ anyone?
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From the team that gave the first ascent of Parthian Shot to Seb Grieve that's a minor error
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The biggest error ever has to be in RockFax Western Grit where it has the lines all wrong for the Paralogism Roof. From memory it shows Paralogism going where El Mocho's Skin and Wishbones goes, then Antithesis going up Paralogism but then uses a quite from the original guide to say that a side runner is placed in the next route (in the original guide this is a route called Bad of Nails which is a ten foot to the right), the next route described is Crack and Corner 30 metres down to the right! That's a serious 'easter egg'!
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I daresay the average Rockfax reader isn't the type to get on these routes, with or without his trusty photo topo.
From the team that gave the first ascent of Parthian Shot to Seb Grieve that's a minor error
I always assumed that was an intentional slur, despite the grovelling apology.
they've outdone rupert with regard to peak downgrading - Blind Fig 7b+ anyone?
I don't think Blind Fig is much harder than Blind date, though they do require different types of pre-requisite strength. Crimp rats are likely to find the gap bigger than I do, more due to finding Date easier than Fig harder, if that makes sense.
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I don't think Blind Fig is much harder than Blind date, though they do require different types of pre-requisite strength.
Reading between the lines, do you actually mean you can't crimp and thus find blind date 7c? ;D
I think real crimp rats would get on fine with Fig, probably easier than footwork-ponies - some guy once showed me a way of holding the right hand bit of the sloper by crimping the tits off the pebble and divot as a stack - it felt like a dave-jug but would have torn my pad apart if i had taken my feet off the ground. i switched back to the openhanding.
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Hats off to whoever captioned the photo in this month's Climb.
'Andy Banks repeating River of Life Goose (Font 8a+) Turningstone Edge'
Luckily it wasn't me.
The other downgrading this month is Brachiation Dance which was always a bit soft at 7b+ but seems a bit mean for 7a+.
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GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEE. You know it makes sense!!!!
In time, with the help of subliminal trickery I hope to implant the word goose into every problem name in the peak
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Quote
From the team that gave the first ascent of Parthian Shot to Seb Grieve that's a minor error
I always assumed that was an intentional slur, despite the grovelling apology.
i would love to say that me and patter deliberately put seb in for a laugh. We did leave him in there when we compiled the lists for comedy value. but then forgot to take him out and replace him with the best climber that ever lived. anyway, we were informed by ote (as was) that the article was proof read but not by a climber - ie the mistake was not noticed.
it was an awful grovelling apology and i loved the fact that we got the most number of complaint lettters. ever! :guilty:
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The other downgrading this month is Brachiation Dance which was always a bit soft at 7b+ but seems a bit mean for 7a+.
Noted. Fair at 7b I would say. Harder than Rubicon but not +.
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Well said that man, Brachiation Goose has always been middling 7b in my opinion
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Blind Fig, Blind Date, there's plenty of opportunity for a Blind Goose...
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Probably better as Goose Fig or Goose Date, so we can still tell which one is which. I can imagine the confusion: 'What you done today?' JB 'Oh, you know, Blind Goose and some other stuff.', 'Oh, which one, the 7b+ one?' JB 'Yeah'
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In other news, somebody unknown has just done the first link-up of these problems to create "Date with a fig-flavoured blind Goose"
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I heard JB's too busy building patios these days to climb :P
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So I believe!
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a closer look at the "blind fig" photo makes it clear that he's bot even on blind fig, he's on blind date. so not only is the grade wrong for the caption, the caption is wrong for the problem. so thats a double error.
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Do the two wrongs make a right in this case??
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in this was 2 wrongs make a wrong. right?
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surely its just a single error, writing fig instead of date? You can't try a man for the same crime twice, just ask Sloper.
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Thought double jeopardy had been gotten rid of in England and Wales following Steven Lawrence?
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surely its just a single error, writing fig instead of date?
mag writers aught to know the difference between a fig and a date though. like we all know the difference between apples and oranges. and which one is best.
.....and don't call me shirley.
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You ever seen Neil Pearsons trying to buy a packet of Fig Rolls? No? There's a good reason for that
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is it that he prefers Soreen?
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Soreen?
I thought that was his state of mind. Use yer loaf.
You need to know your date bars from your fig newtons.
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Thought double jeopardy had been gotten rid of in England and Wales following Steven Lawrence?
Double jeapardy actually has a different meaning from the commonly assumed one, but can't be arse to go into it.
You can now be tried for an offence for which you were previously acquitted, it wasn't as a result of the Stephen Lawwrence murder, rather some woman whose name I can't remember.
off the top of my head the criteria to allow a further trial after acquittal are:
1. The offence needs to be serious, ie. homicide, rape or something else very naughty
2. New evidence is avialable now that would not have been avialable at the time (i.e. scientific advances etc) not just evidence that wasn't presented at the time of the first trial due to incompetence etc
3. the A-G's consent is obtained.
probably more in the criminal justice act 2003.
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a closer look at the "blind fig" photo makes it clear that he's bot even on blind fig, he's on blind date. so not only is the grade wrong for the caption, the caption is wrong for the problem. so thats a double error.
And no acknowledgement of Dan Cheetam as the climber.
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Dos anyone else know the climber called Goose?
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This man?
(http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/177908.1020.A.jpg)
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No, but that's the character who made me realise it was cool.