UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => chuffing => Topic started by: andy_e on December 09, 2005, 09:37:08 am
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dunno why E4, it just seems a good number. so i'm thinking:
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=616
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=506
any other good ones? i'm goona be going for the onsight (if i get there)
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One for cocktalk I think... :roll:
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unlike cocktalk i'm not going to try and tell you something hard is easy in an attempt to make myself look good.....
the strangler is indeed soft touch, very good and safe but spacey (you're about 50ft up when you start) but you have got to stand on some unlikey smears, you quarry boys might not like it. there ain't no crimps.
I wouldn't have thought many would recomend old friends as a good soft/first E4.
Down to earth at bamford is very good and very soft for E4, good small cams protect. some people say its a good highball - personally i wouldn't relish falling off from the top (crux) onto the ground, bearing in mind the one lead fall i've seen from that route was head first.
banana wall at wharncliffe is an uttery piss E4 if you're not a midget.
I'm back at rivelin is soft touch provided you don't fall off the one hard move. it ain't that easy, but is all over quickly. just don't fall off.
if anyone tells you auto da fe is soft, ignore them.
moon walk is maybe soft, at least very safe.
wings of unreason is soft, just a confidence thing. safe.
slap and spittle at stanage is pretty soft, especially with a mat. still you need to be not climbing like a spaz, it ain't trivial. ditto for high flyer.
these are all excellent routes.
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Boggart left hand at burbage south. well easy for the grade !
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What E2s & E3s have you done so far, to compare to these routes?
I dont think Old Friends is soft.
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I wouldn't say Old Friends is soft either, nor, I imagine, would the people who have been carted off down to the car park with broken ankles. Does my memory serve me correct that this includes Jon Barton and Lucy Creamer by any chance? Personally, when I think of E4 on grit, the term 'soft touch' doesn't immediately spring to mind, and the best you can do is to get on a suitable one, ie, one where you won't hurt yourself, eg moonwalk, auto da fe, usurper, but they ain't easy.
Sorry about the other Andi E comments, Chris, I just thought the young lad was getting a hard time.
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Nae bother Niall. He does get a hard time, but it is usually justified.
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I think inciting buggery was a step too far though grimer :roll:
Old Friends may not be soft but its not a hard one either, miles off E5.
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On grit, "soft touch" difficulty wise usually equals "more dangerous", simple as that.
E4 5c generally either means bold 5c or sustained 5c.
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some E4s are genuinley safeish AND physically easier though. for example the strangler gets E4 cos of thin smears and the fact its pretty spacey, but you got bomber gear at your feet and a massive fallout area underneath. down to earth at bamford really is like a misgrading, though maybe it used to be more scrittley, or would be E4 if you had no small cams. otherwise its safe as. banana wall is just a reach off an undercut, with gear by your hand. if you're short it may feel full-on E4, if you're tall more like E2, the top bit is easy though.
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Yeah, I was just generalising, but I'll shut up now ;)
With all the recent guidebooks I'd have thought there's going to be less completely mis-graded routes about....and anyway, what's the point of doing something that's really an E3, just because it gets an incorrect grade in a guide? Deep down inside you'll just know you are a dirty, lowdown grade-whore :lol:
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Deep down inside you'll just know you are a dirty, lowdown grade-whore :lol:
And what's wrong with that?
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And what's wrong with that?
Because inside you'll be wretched...
Picture it; you'll be down the pub proudly proclaiming to all your mates about how you've just done an E4...but there'll always be that niggling doubt in the back of your mind that over the other side of the room is somebody like Dense giving you a sneering look of contempt ;)
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Tripping on Sunshine at Turning Stone is way overgraded at E4 6b, soft E2 is more like it.
Demon Rib at Black Rocks is soft and safe, hard start (spotter useful) then very good small wires protect moves to break, top bit is easy and protected.
Breadline get E4 in the book.
Those cracks either side of Billy Whizz are soft but won't be E4 in new guide i suspect.
Oedipus is piss if you are tall enough to reach the jug from the ledge on the top/crux move.
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the strangler is indeed soft touch, very good and safe but spacey (you're about 50ft up when you start) but you have got to stand on some unlikey smears, you quarry boys might not like it. there ain't no crimps.
that's alright then
banana wall at wharncliffe is an uttery piss E4 if you're not a midget.
damn, i am
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How's Jetrunner at Bamford? Looks reet good, but comments on rockfax make out that the difficulty of the route is based around how much you trust some small gear. Any thoughts?
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i thought you were going for edge lane with the knotted rope. :roll:
andi if you were struggling with conan on mother cap which was graded e2 when it was a route,you might end up in deep shit even on the softest e4.
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jetrunner isn;t soft touch really but fairly middling. at the break before the crux theres a load of fair-lookin small cam placments which are all in actual fact shit and get in the way of your feet. i stood there for a while fiddling some in, then noticed to my left there were some good sideways nut placments (small nuts, RPs, peanuts maybe) that seemed really solid, kinda like it made the rest of the shit cams redundant. my advice is get the nuts in on the left and sack off the cams. the actually climbing is about remembering is a slab and standing up instead of trying to pull too much on the pocket. bomber gear at next break, then piss finish up the dissapointing arete. try not to touch the HS which is inches away.
i would like to go back and try salmon Lh or something, would be a more suitable finish i recon, and safe.
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i thought you were going for edge lane with the knotted rope. :roll:
andi if you were struggling with conan on mother cap which was graded e2 when it was a route,you might end up in deep shit even on the softest e4.
E4 5c i could handle, E2 6b i can't
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jetrunner isn;t soft touch really but fairly middling.
Cheers Dave - just wanted to do this before getting on the more difficult routes on the slab, which look a lot more quality.
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I thought Jetrunner was more like average E3. Gear all seemed good, and you were going from rest to rest. Also thought Salmon LH was averagely easy E5, but i put a Friend in the Jetrunner pocket (above top break). Maybe people don't do thyis which might nudge it closer to E6, but you are right beside it, pretty much, and prabably makes it more enjoyable. (note sense of desperate justification...) Also there, to the right, is an E1 called Fizz. Absolute gem, a flat wall with 2 sets of pockets, both of which can be threaded. A great warm up if you're there for the salmon slab.
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i thought you were going for edge lane with the knotted rope. :roll:
andi if you were struggling with conan on mother cap which was graded e2 when it was a route,you might end up in deep shit even on the softest e4.
E4 5c i could handle, E2 6b i can't
you're at it again.if you are so sure you handle it why are you asking for soft touches.
no wonder we take the piss.
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I thought Jetrunner was more like average E3.
Well lets just wait and see what the new guidebook writer thinks......
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.....ah fuck.
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Traveller In Time at Ramshaw seems to be widely regarded as tres soft - is it still E4?
Also that slabby arete one at Rivelin (can't remember the name, next to Party Animal I think) is soft but bold so depends on your head really.
Nihilistic Narl (stanage) used to be a soft E4 slab, but now is a gift at E5.
But thats just my opinion, and I find that my opinion and general concensus rarely coincide. Perhaps you'd be better listening to other people...
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got to agree with Jimbo, Boggart LH is the definative soft touch E4.
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got to agree with Jimbo, Boggart LH is the definative soft touch E4.
Isn't it given E2-E4 in the guide, with the E4 only applying for runts. A big lad like you should be able to static the lurch i'd have thought.
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banana wall at wharncliffe is an uttery piss E4 if you're not a midget.
damn, i am
you're no shorter than me and i've done banana path.
wings of unreason is the obvious one. and traveller in time is alright if you;re ove rthat way. 2 in a day - why not?
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indeed man, will have to wait until after the exams! wings looks scary, is it? hows track of the cat?
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got to agree with Jimbo, Boggart LH is the definative soft touch E4.
Isn't it given E2-E4 in the guide, with the E4 only applying for runts. A big lad like you should be able to static the lurch i'd have thought.
I'm only 5ft tall.I just have a habit of standing really close to people.
And yeah I static the lurch and have also reversed it quite comfortably.I also take the E4 tick quite comfortably.
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Why?
Either you want to climb the level of challenge E4 signifies, or you don't. Simple as that.
If you're after a certain level of challenge but don't think you can actually do proper E4, then do some hard E3s instead.
On the other hand, if you're interested in the number and can't be bothered actually tackling the challenge it should signify....then give up climbing.
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wings isn't scary per se, its just scary psychologically. What scary is long you will stand there putting off a simple jump of a few inches. my advice is dont wind up for it, as winding up makes it look further away and freaks you out. also don't kick your friend out as you jump - i've heard of that happening and the guy missing the jump....
track ain;t freaky like wings but is just bolder. good rest to psyche up from. both are brilliant and on the most amazing gritstone. another good route is prelude to space HVS the rigth aret of the buttress, and wild thing on the next block right is great. the E5 right of that looks dope.
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indeed man, will have to wait until after the exams! wings looks scary, is it? hows track of the cat?
If you struggled on an E2 6b, may i reccommend avoiding bold E5 6a's if you want your climbing career to not involve intermissions spent in hospital....
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Dave, with a twist of the hips and shoulders and balancing on one toe, I can reach the hold on Wings statically, although only just. :oops:
Guess you aren't as lanky as is made out after all. I struggled like a bastard rocking into the pocket though.
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Luckily Dave, Jetrunner has stayed at E4. E3 is just my opinion, and I only argue 1 out of every 3 times when I disagree with anyone. It makes life two-thirds easier.
Having said that, Salmon LH is going in at E6 and Smoked Salmon (which I thought was standard E4) at E5, and Undercut Crack (which is E3 I think) at E2.
I appear to be in disagreement defecit.
And if you're looking for soft touches, andi, Right Unconquerable is easy for E4.
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Smoked Salmon (which I thought was standard E4) at E5,
quite a drop from E8 then :shock:
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did I say smoked salmon? oops I hope Andi hasn't read this and stormed out for a nighttime solo. I meant, of course, Parthian Shot.
...or was it Poached Salmon?
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and wild thing on the next block right is great. the E5 right of that looks dope.
It is. I put gear in it (an RP3?) but probably better as a solo in retrospect as you have to stand on some not brilliant smears to get the thing in, by which time you could have been at the top.
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word - entropy's jaw is the name i was looking for. alas i was tricked into attempting this route on a toprope about 5 years ago, so i've lost the ground-up on that one should i ever go back - gutted. the only redeeming factor is i couldn't get started on it, so have gained no advantage.......toproping blows.
Paz on the other hand pissed it on toprope. sucks to be you paz.
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I thought Undercut Crack was worth E3 also.
I remember Uptowngirl slipping off Entropy's Jaw, due to overreaching on the smears trying to place the RP, totally skinning all his knuckles and broke a tree root!
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It is. I put gear in it (an RP3?) but probably better as a solo in retrospect as you have to stand on some not brilliant smears to get the thing in, by which time you could have been at the top.
I found that a 2 HB Brass Offset thingy went in very nicely - certainly felt more comfortable for having placed the gear but came in for a certain amount of piss taking for not just soloing it...
Nature Trail on the next slab along is also a very good route
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perhaps fiend is right. i should get more E1s, 2s, and 3s done first (not forgetting E0s :lol: )
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Some good suggestions, but no mention of Calvary?
My first E4 on sight, low tricky crux near a bomber friend and then some steady climbing to the top.
Chalkstorm and Downhill Racer if you like slabs and don't mind solo-ing.
J
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yeah chalkstorm looks good. as does the flying arete next to it (forget name, doh!)
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Some good suggestions, but no mention of Calvary?
My first E4 on sight, low tricky crux near a bomber friend and then some steady climbing to the top.
i belayed a mate on this one september evening this year - he was super psyched as was just about to go to the antarctic fo 18 months. the middle section climbing on little snappy-looking flakes looked the worse bit and the bit he had most problems with. I can't say i'd be rushing to do it as a first E4.
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Chalkstorm is def ok at E4 so long as your happy on your feet. Commander Energy is the arete to the right and is amazing. One of the best E2s Ive done.
Back to the subject tho - Life in a Radio Active Dustbin is a piece of piss at E4 and substantially easier if your over about 6 foot - if your not its a hard lock or a jump from the floor
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word, even I've done that :8)
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word - entropy's jaw .... alas i was tricked into attempting this route on a toprope
Paz on the other hand pissed it on toprope.
Despite my `mad foot on, slap' at the top, I'd have gone for it then if we were a 3 that day instead of a 4 ;-). Or at least if the 4th person didn't waste loads of everyones time failing to even get as far as you did, or didn't have to be back home in time for a bath or something. I need beta or to top rope it again, as I can't remember which foot you start with on the line of smears so you don't get wrong footed for the crux. I agree with what someone else told me - preplaced gear was invented for this route. If I can't place gear mid climb then I'll have a rethink but there's no point me owning a HB2 if I'm never going to use it, especially when it's crucial. Saying that, a surprising number of people fall off and are OK. After you've slid down the slab it's only like falling from the lip.
We were both tricked because the man was off to Aberdeen seemingly forever and wanted to get on a `hard' git route. He came back for christmas. Last year I let him take me off to the Count's Buttress Slabs when I wanted to do Archangel and was going well (that's a once in tne years occurence for me) because he was leaving the country and again wanted his `last' taste of gritstone. He was back, within a month!
If you want soft E4s you want to come to the west country where you'll learn how easy `it's E4 in the guidebook' can be. Possibly when it's E1/2 in the history section when it wasn't even cleaned.
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I my memory isn't playing tricks on me I think you can place the gear on EJ by leaning over the top (or maybe it was by hanging off the top). In my book this is still in keeping with the ground up ethic. What do others think about this? Obviously putting a quickdraw on would be a step too far.
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placing it from the top would be a bit gay. its just as ground-up as abbing in to place it, the fact you don't have to use an ab rope is irrelevent. if its that close to the top is it really worth having?
i forget the exact geometrics of the route but could you not loop 2 nutes back-toback and place it from a move or so lower?
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EJ only has one runner (the one you could place from the top)and it is useful. I'd say looping nuts together is more dubious(gay) than placing from the top or the side (without use of rope), it's little better than using a clipstick.
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wings of unreason is soft, just a confidence thing. safe.
I agree Dave, but it's only E4 if your short, its very morpho, my mate at 6/3 barely had to pop for it, its way further for me.
E2 for all you lanky gits :D
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EJ only has one runner (the one you could place from the top)and it is useful. I'd say looping nuts together is more dubious(gay) than placing from the top or the side (without use of rope), it's little better than using a clipstick.
At last something more interesting than this tedious "wanting a grade without wanting what it means" nonsense.
Say you are starting on a route (onsight of course). It says in the guidebook description that there's a crucial small wire placement that's hard to place. So you take up a rack of the usual RPs Offsets Peenuts and general unconvincing brass bollox. You get to a point where you can see the wire placement, just out of reach, and things look tricky getting to it and past it. So you take off a couple of wires and fiddle around looping them together with your teeth and free hand, and then manage to place and clip that wire at a stretch.
Is there a problem with that? To me that seems like taking on the full challenge and using your cunning and standard trad leading equipment to protect it, under your own steam, on the route.
Even if you loop the wires together on the ground (on the off chance that "hard to place" might mean "reachy to place"), you're still just using standard equipment available...
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radio active distbin is the ultimate grading joke - the only e4 i would consider doing in muddy adidas sambas when i have mountain biked up there.
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Sorry JB, but you can't have that.
I've heard stories about that route, all sorts of people falling off it on the solo, and isn't that the one where andy popp emerhedwith his yellow lycra apparently covered in blood in front of a group of schoolgirls, and one about Mark McGowan getting gripped just below the top and making a lunge for Nick Dixon and just carching the tip of his thumb, then Ian Squak Dunn discovered that you could lean down an preplace an RP. I think that partially the locals had already soloed it, and partially because it was squak who discovered it, the lean-down was dismissed as an outright cheat.
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. In my book this is still in keeping with the ground up ethic.
More `top down' than ground up but I guess if you want to preplace gear but not preinspect the climbing or the rotue from an ab point then fine. It may even be a fairly satisfying style of ascent but in general where you don't preplace, doing anything from the top is just a bit contrived - you may as well set up a top rope. Larks footing wires - fine. De-riguer even. I've had gear above my head for the crux of two semi bold* routes at Pembroke doing that. If you only need the odd crucial wire then rack up like that if you will.
What do people think about gaining information from looking at the route from the top (Demon Wall springs to mind, the guidebook quote "Hidden Hold... Go and have a look if you're that unadventurous" is very apt) or even climbing adjacent routes. There was a tactics article on planetfear that suggested it was all legit preparation for the onsight - a good look is just getting the sight part right. PF don't decide upon the definitive ethical requirements for the country but they wouldn't have written that if someone hadn't done it and claimed the onsight, so that shit goes on...
On sea cliffs people even suggest using a preplaced belay rope. I'm all for putting more gear in before you top out but I've never been in a situation where doing this wasn't more of a convenience than a legitimate safety requirement for an ascent of a route at it's grade,
despite what the guide book says, on reasonably popular routes. I've also only ever managed to put the belay rope in the right place once. I think the great art of climbing steep grass has been lost by British climbers :D .
* I.e. Bomber Rock 1s not Rock 10s.
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wings of unreason is soft, just a confidence thing. safe.
I agree Dave, but it's only E4 if your short, its very morpho, my mate at 6/3 barely had to pop for it, its way further for me.
E2 for all you lanky gits :D
i'm about 6'1 and even with when seconded i'm about 4 inches short of the hold at full stretch - however a friend of the same hight (or a tad taller) managed to reach it on the lead - different ape indexes i guess.
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radio active distbin is the ultimate grading joke - the only e4 i would consider doing in muddy adidas sambas when i have mountain biked up there.
which grot hole is that at? is it 'zarke?
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radio active distbin is the ultimate grading joke - the only e4 i would consider doing in muddy adidas sambas when i have mountain biked up there.
which grot hole is that at? is it 'zarke?
You and the fuckin Lancs quarries - do you ever get out. No its not in Lancashire - its in the peak. Burbage north to be exact
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andi
just out of intrest what is the hardest route you've led on sight/ground up.
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i would imagine that if you're not tall and without mats LIARD would feel well E4. Remember avid robocopped himself on it and he's about 6'3 and wasn't weighed down by a nomadica ski jacket.
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yeah, you never used to see any chalk on it in pre pad days.
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I remember trying LIARD before mats were used and it was a whole diffrent ballgame. It's ok doing it without a mat when you've done it before with and you know what's coming, but first time up.... Just a case of the guide being out of date.
Just for the record, I was speaking theoretically only regards EJ. I haven't done it, or leaned down and placed gear any any route I can remember, or used looped together wires for that matter. But in theory I think its within the bounds of the ground up style. Actually come to think of it, when I led Censor at Stanage I soloed down the Dangler, leaned across and placed a cam :roll: .
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Actually come to think of it, when I led Censor at Stanage I soloed down the Dangler, leaned across and placed a cam :roll: .
Well you certainly score points in my book for that sort of carry on, Jon
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radio active distbin is the ultimate grading joke - the only e4 i would consider doing in muddy adidas sambas when i have mountain biked up there.
which grot hole is that at? is it 'zarke?
You and the fuckin Lancs quarries - do you ever get out. No its not in Lancashire - its in the peak. Burbage north to be exact
:D
Was thinking exactly the same thing.
Midnight Lightning? Is that in Wilton 3?........
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i could have sworn there's a route to do wiht dustibins in lancashire somewhere.
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i think there's a few that should be in dustbins...
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i could have sworn there's a route to do wiht dustibins in lancashire somewhere.
Just because it has something to do with landfill, doesn't mean it's in lancashire.
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i think there's a few that should be in dustbins...
:lol: :D :lol:
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the eight-legged atomic dustbin will eat itself is what i waqs thinking of
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well what is it.
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you people!!
im talking pre mats here.
its easy to land off if you split your feet and land across the gully beind you.
mats Pah!
(ps. i have one now)
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andi
just out of intrest what is the hardest route you've led on sight/ground up.
E2 5b - a solo at Harcles' Hill (forget the name)
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E2's good Andi.
However, and this is just my opinion, one of the best things in climbing is doing the really great routes when they are just the right level for you. By rushing through grades you miss out a lot. So while there may be E4s out there that will suit you or are easy for the grade, the best thing is to do shit loads of brilliant E2s, and get really solid at the grade, then do the same at E3 and so on. You're young, so you have bags of time. And that way, when you get to E4, and you soon will, you can have a go at any one and get up it.
This really will be a much more satisfying way of climbing, for as sure as eggs are eggs, even if you did get up an E4, the next week you could be having a 'mare on an E1, and that just gets depressing.
And when you are solid at E4, you will realise all the ones that are easy for E4 are actually E3s.
I was going to say just enjoy it and don't worry too much about the grades, but you obviously know that already and don't need me to tell you.
Oh, and response to your other post, I'm starting to think that you'll never please everyone, and, like grades, sometimes there's no point worrying about it.
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cheers grimer! a real inspiration there. however, if i ever get out of the lancashire quarries (or in to them with someone with a rope) it won't be for a lonmg time yet. inspiration always comes to me when i have to revise. grrrrrrrrrrr.
(http://img42.exs.cx/img42/6464/argh.jpg)
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Cheers Andy.
And if it's any consolation, I quite liked Rivelin rhyming with Ritalin. :)
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:lol:
when i start a'fiddlin,
i just take some ritalin,
i'm popin' and sailin' man!
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E2's good Andi.
However, and this is just my opinion, one of the best things in climbing is doing the really great routes when they are just the right level for you. By rushing through grades you miss out a lot. So while there may be E4s out there that will suit you or are easy for the grade, the best thing is to do shit loads of brilliant E2s, and get really solid at the grade, then do the same at E3 and so on. You're young, so you have bags of time. And that way, when you get to E4, and you soon will, you can have a go at any one and get up it.
This really will be a much more satisfying way of climbing, for as sure as eggs are eggs, even if you did get up an E4, the next week you could be having a 'mare on an E1, and that just gets depressing.
And when you are solid at E4, you will realise all the ones that are easy for E4 are actually E3s.
I was going to say just enjoy it and don't worry too much about the grades, but you obviously know that already and don't need me to tell you.
Oh, and response to your other post, I'm starting to think that you'll never please everyone, and, like grades, sometimes there's no point worrying about it.
That may be the most supportive, positive thing I've read on the internet. I'm not sure whether to cry or be sick.
I really ought to climb with you more often. Positive encouragement would be a welcome change from the usual "Come down, you're hurting the crag, fat boy" abuse hurled my way.
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when i start a'fiddlin,
i just take some ritalin,
i'm popin' and sailin' man!
And that may be the stupidest, randomest thing i've ever read on the internet.
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andi
just out of intrest what is the hardest route you've led on sight/ground up.
E2 5b - a solo at Harcles' Hill (forget the name)
Andi, I'm sure you dont need me to warn you of this, but if you are thinking of moving from a single E2 solo to leading something like Old Friends, you may be tempting contracting a mild dose of premature painful death. Learn to place gear well before thinking of climbing E grades. Unless the E4 query was mild speculation, then you really are a stupid kid.
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andi
just out of intrest what is the hardest route you've led on sight/ground up.
E2 5b - a solo at Harcles' Hill (forget the name)
thats suprises me not at all.i suspect it will be about 20/25ft high as well.
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i agree with a lot of what marky mark and busta grimes say about doing stuff more at your grade and not trying to get softtouches etc. For a start If you're solid at E2 then its not doing a soft touch E4 thats going to make you an E4 climber, its getting stronger and better that going to make you and E4 climber.
However i think its only natural to be drawn to bigger grades, climbing by its very nature is an aspirational activity where you always tend to look to the next thing, always looking for improvement. And if the superficiality of chasing a grade makes you more motivated to get one harder things or to try hard then thats great. I remember for years i only felt that i could do routes that were soft touch...but soft touch regardless of the grade up to about E4. Like i would get bummed on a hard E1, but would always be fine on a soft touch E3 or E4. Maybe because when you think its a harder grade you always try harder or something.
Another good thing about grade-chasing though is that it can effectivley break down the stigma of grade boundaries. I've spoken to people who, say, were rock solid at E1, but would be totally petrified of attempting an E2 or E3 because it was "out of their grade", regardless of the fact that many of the hard E1s they'd done would be harder that soft E2/3s. Same with people who can lead any HVS but never try and E1 cos of the psychological barrier. If they had done a soft E1 back when they were solid at Vs then that mental barrier wouldn't exist, and maybe they'd improve more as they weren't scared of pushing themselves.
At the end of the day its all 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
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when i start a'fiddlin,
i just take some ritalin,
i'm popin' and sailin' man!
And that may be the stupidest, randomest thing i've ever read on the internet.
it was on the simpsons ten minutes before i posted it
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Even if it was, doesn't stop it being stupid.
Think about the word; "relevance". You seem to struggle with it.
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Even if it was, doesn't stop it being stupid.
Think about the word; "relevance". You seem to struggle with it.
read grimer's post before it
perhaps i could do with some ritalin
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i have noticed your grammar's been slipping recently
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hell, why don't you two get a room?
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because over the last few centuries torture has become illegal, in most supposedly humane countries at least
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i have noticed your grammar's been slipping recently
mine? never! where?
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Pah. Grade chasing is bollocks. Meaningless, self-defeating, bollocks.
The people you're talking about, Dave, (from reading UKC and indeed overhearing people IRL, there are a shockingly large amount of them), who are concerned with the grade rather than what it means. They need to start THINKING a bit. A grade is just a piece of information, it's just something that summarises the approximate challenge of a climb. It's number is irrelevant, it's the meaning that is the only thing of interest.
Chasing grades so that people push themselves harder - if people thought a bit more, they'd realise they can push themselves any irrespective of what number the challenge has. Either your motivated to tackle a harder challenge or you aren't. If you really need a different number to tackle that challenge, that's shallow and spurious. I'd hope people were a bit more "into" climbing than that.
Chasing grades to "break into" a grade - if people really think that the next grade is impenetrable because it is the next grade, they need to think a LOT more. All the next grade is is slightly more challenge, that's all it means. The difference between a grade and the next grade is that the next grade is a bit more difficult, if you want to climb something a bit more difficult then FFS give it a try and stop getting hung up on the numbers.
It's quite simple and I don't know why so many people (not here, people do seem to think more on here) don't get it:
It's not about the grade it's about what it MEANS i.e. the challenge.
It's not about higher grades it's about a harder challenge.
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someone's not had their ritalin
i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.
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Even if it was, doesn't stop it being stupid.
Think about the word; "relevance". You seem to struggle with it.
read grimer's post before it
perhaps i could do with some ritalin
I was thinking cyanide.
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someone's not had their ritalin
i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.
You are clearly missing the point of what every sorry fool has been kindly and patiently trying to explain to you.
Given your currently track record; a single soloable E2, I think leading anything HVS or above that needs placing gear will be a challenge to you.
You remind me of another andy.
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/images/396/lou_andy6.jpg)
"I want to climb E4"
"But Andy you arent good enough to climb E4, or even most E1s yet"
"Yeah I know"
"I want to climb E4"
etc
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because over the last few centuries torture has become illegal, in most supposedly humane countries at least
apparentley its o.k. if your american as long as you don't do it in your own back kitchen.
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someone's not had their ritalin
i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.
if this is the case why wre you enquiring about soloing edge lane with a knotted rope hanging down it on cocktalk the other day.
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someone's not had their ritalin
i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.
if this is the case why wre you enquiring about soloing edge lane with a knotted rope hanging down it on cocktalk the other day.
i was just thinking about the ethics as opposed to actually doing it
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"I want to climb E4"
"But Andy you arent good enough to climb E4, or even most E1s yet"
"Yeah I know"
"I want to climb E4"
etc
Remarkably accurate - Andi, you've managed to turn this into a typical ukc topic, please will you stop it.
If you want the number that bad (and yes, you are just chasing a number), just go and get on the routes suggested by people on here.
Don't complain if you fail miserably, shit your pants, or hurt yourself, at least you'll have tried...
...but don't come on here, ask for advice and then continually ignore just about everything people are advising you, it just winds us all up.
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I'm not ignoring anyone am I?
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I'm not ignoring anyone am I?
i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.
Seems to indicate otherwise. :roll:
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dunno why E4, it just seems a good number.
Sorry, but this topic is really silly, and has run it's course anyway.
Locked.
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unlocked - thinking about it, locking a topic on the grounds of silliness was wrong of me.
Sorry andi, but plz keep it sane, and Chris stop rising to the bait ;)
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someone's not had their ritalin
i want to do an E4 because it is a harder challenge, and not because it is E4.
Well if thats what your after why not make it E5 - it sounds much better down the pub, and theres plenty of safe ones.
Pussy
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Sorry andi, but plz keep it sane, and Chris stop rising to the bait ;)
I'm washing my hands of it now. If the silly fucker want's to go off and kill himself it's up to him now, I've (we've) done my bit to try and get the info through to him.
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control freak where's this soft touch E5 called PUSSY ? it's not at the pit's is it? :wink:
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I was going to reply with the likes of soft touch and pussy and Im sure you must have had a go. But I wont :wink:
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Soft touch E5, well there's plenty.
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I believe 'Pussy' is at Pembrooke (Range west), alas last I heard it was a soft touch HS 4b...someone's been bigging themselves up! :lol:
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unlocked - thinking about it, locking a topic on the grounds of silliness was wrong of me.
No, you were right, it was a spectacularly pointless topic in the first place :x
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unlocked - thinking about it, locking a topic on the grounds of silliness was wrong of me.
No, you were right, it was a spectacularly pointless topic in the first place :x
And one that you made five replies to :roll: :roll:
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I'm educating people. And trying to salvage something from the mess.
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I my memory isn't playing tricks on me I think you can place the gear on EJ by leaning over the top (or maybe it was by hanging off the top). In my book this is still in keeping with the ground up ethic. What do others think about this? Obviously putting a quickdraw on would be a step too far.
i dont see why not - you approach he climb from the top anyways! - what? we supposed to pretend its a pitch on a mountain crag or summat??
up to the individual in my book, i reckon as long as you dont pre/clip them (top rope) thus damaging the placements whilst falling from the crux lower bit, its cool if your ethical concience can deal with it. But what do i know!?! have you seen the state of my logbook!!! :whistle: oh, dear.. :oops:
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For the record Jetrunner is soft. Feels about E2 6a if you trust the gear. I found the arete at the top to be the hard bit! Got scared! Its the only "E4" that I've done and I felt disappointed and that I haven't properly done an E4. Archangel felt MUCH harder and if that's benchmark E3 I don't think I want to do an E4.
Edit: Oops. Didn't see how dead and ridiculed this topic was. Apols.
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Worst revival of a thread ever. But, Jetrunner is E3 6a, Archangel is a much better route and climbing experience.
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That is quite impressive - this topic was dormant for almost 4 years :lol:
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And pray it may become so again :lol:
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I wonder if Andi did his E4?
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Yeah Andi did you do your E4? UKB needs to know.
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And more importantly, how'd it feeel?
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Apparently the first inch is the most painful :shag:
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That is quite impressive - this topic was dormant for almost 4 years :lol:
Yeah tallsop, whats with unearthing all these ancient threads and replying to stuff posted years ago? Are you bored and reading the whole forum from start to finish? That'd be a more impressive tick than a headpointed E7 ;)
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Are you bored and reading the whole forum from start to finish? That'd be a more impressive tick than a headpointed E7 ;)
But more likely to be beneficial to your climbing though.
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But more likely to send you completely insane though.
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That's a given.
You don't have to be crazy to post here, but it helps. :)