UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: Camo on February 02, 2020, 11:22:58 am
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Hi everyone,
I recently read a thread on UKB about ‘performance as a measure of self worth’, this is about a year old but I came across it while googling about the subject. It struck a chord with me and spurred me on to create an account and post a bit about my own struggle with a similar mindset - hopefully with the fellow climbers on here able to provide me with some advice and differing points of view on what the problem is and how to manage it.
Apologies that my posting debut is so deep and long winded but I greatly appreciate people’s time if they could read this and respond with their perspectives. I find it difficult to describe the feelings briefly so I’m afraid I may ramble on a bit but I’ll try to stay on track!
I’ve been climbing for a good number of years now and have noticed recently I haven’t been getting the enjoyment out of climbing that I did for a long time. Reflecting on this has made me realise I’ve made some bad decisions and have done things for the wrong reasons at times. Things like grade chasing, being overly goal & performance focused and comparing myself to others has taken away the fun part of climbing - which is where my original passion always came from. This would manifest itself by me becoming frustrated and disheartened if I didn’t succeed on something I expected it would - even if in reality this would teach me more skills than instant gratification ever would.
A while ago now I deleted my Instagram and Facebook as I felt I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to come across as somebody that performs well and succeeds. I was posting frequently about sending a problem or onsighting a route but I would deliberately neglect to post about failing on something I thought would be easy or anything else that might make me look bad. I behaved this way partly out of vanity and partly because that’s how a handful of people I climbed with behaved as well. I realised after time that this bonanza bullshit was not doing me or anyone else good and so decided to delete my accounts.
However the mindset stuck with me in other forms. Fear of failure being one manifestation. If I was at a crag I would either do routes I was confident I could do or open a project on something really hard for me so I felt failure in the session was justified as projects are meant to test you. This also meant I could work towards a new grade PB. I also had a paranoia about losing ground and would do anything to avoid going backwards, always striving for a new PB. This grade chasing attitude is poor and I feel quite embarrassed admitting it. However it definitely played a huge role in my climbing habits for years.
Things changed when I began to realise that climbing felt like a chore and I dreaded sessions rather than looking forward to them. I still forced myself to train and to keep up the appearance of enjoying climbing and not having any insecurities which I definitely did.
Comparing myself to others was also a big problem and seeing someone else succeed where I had failed made me feel inadequate and I found it hard to be pleased for someone succeeding when I had failed. This is a pretty rotten attitude to have I feel but at the time it felt normal.
I have just been having a short term break from climbing and I am keen to improve my mindset and learn from my mistakes. Hopefully being able to climb for the right reasons and progress more sustainably in future. I hope I don’t come across like a complete tosser and I hope I’m not the only one who has felt like this.
Thank you very much to anyone that has read this far despite all my blabbering on! It would be great to hear others perspectives on this.
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Welcome back Dan!
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I’m not a Dan I’m afraid, hopefully I don’t seem familiar for a bad reason!
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LOL, just an in-joke alluding to an ex-member who go so burnt out chasing the Limits that he had a prolonged existential / philosophical meltdown to the point of spontaenously combusting off the forum.
I will reply sensibly in a bit.
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Ah right - hopefully I’m not past the point of no return! Cheers, looking forward to your reply
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Hi Camo
:icon_welcome:
Sources of motivation can be intrinsic or extrinsic and for the long run most of us have to be intrinsically motivated to a certain extent to keep at it for when the novelty and big improvements diminish. This intrinsic love for the game can either be the act of climbing or striving to be a better or the best climber you can be.
Even if intrinsically motivated there will be peaks and troughs. In periods of low motivation I make an effort to keep at least doing some climbing and training and weight watching so when the motivation does return there’s not too much ground to make up.
For me getting involved in a project is my chief source of inspiration. Whilst climbing does provide extra dimensions to other sports sometimes I think we expect too much of it.
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I had a massive loss of motivation in the middle of last year for the first time in my climbing (after 15 years). I stopped getting motivated to drive the hour to the crag, stopped fingerboarding, going on my board after a long day in work, having lamp sessions, etc (looking back I had a lot on in work and also a new baby in the house so my reserves for other activities that took lots of motivation to keep a high standard were low). I also felt jaded with the way climbing was getting more commercial and unlike the sport that I started out doing all those years ago.
I was worried that I would want to stop climbing as it is a big part of my life and in some ways I feel it defines who I am. Long story short is that the best thing I did was stop climbing for a short period (3 months) last summer, I went playing golf as a total beginner and got the feeling of rapid improvement similar to when I started climbing. After the summer months off I then gradually returned to the wall and crags and am now as psyched as ever. I was getting jaded with thinking I had visited all the local crags and wasn't going to get chance to travel elsewhere with two young children, in reality looking objectively there is still loads to do I just couldn't see it in the moment. Further to this giving my body a full 3 months off healed all the little niggles I had been managing, it is amazing how different and more enjoyable climbing is when you don't hurt! Finally I realised I don't have to engage with the commercial elements of climbing if I don't want to, the crags will still be there and if I pick the right venues I can avoid the crowds.
So for me a total rest worked wonders. This is after years of the attitude that the best method is to keep turning up and accepting some sessions will be poor, lots average and occasionally everything clicks and you hit some form for a couple of weeks. I think this part is something lots of people struggle to grasp when starting out, if you are doing 100-150 sessions a year it is impossible for them all to be good sessions...
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Hi Shark,
That’s a good point and for me I think the true magic in climbing that got me psyched was when I stuck I move and was sure I should be off but somehow held it and moved through. Almost like the gravity temporarily vanished which is dead cheesy but how I felt when I did something I thought I couldn’t. Interestingly this success usually came when I had no expectations and wasn’t pressuring myself.
With regards to projects I haven’t ever had what I would class as a ‘big’ project and most things I’ve done haven’t taken much longer than a handful of sessions - perhaps something long term that requires a real shift in mindset and approach to accomplish would do me good.
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Doing moves or links that initially feel impossible is what gets me fired up currently but there are other things you might consider. The sport has so many options now and there are so many places to go if travelling is a source of inspiration. I used to be demoralised by bouldering mainly because I was so rubbish at it compared to lead climbing. I’m still not great but I do more of it now than tying on and usually on my own. One of my sons mainly did indoor roped climbing and did an 8a when he was young then stopped for a year and said “he always hated climbing”. He then started indoor bouldering with his school mates and got back into it tied on again last summer and did an 8b. He’s at uni now and I’ve never seen him so psyched. My point is most us go through some form of rollercoaster. Try something a bit different from the usual to rekindle the fire.
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Hi SXRXG
I feel the same as you in a lot of ways - I get climbing became a big part of my life and I feel like non climbing friends and family defined me by it. I have found the commercialisation a bit unappetising as it portrays the perfect session as one where you climb really well but in reality some of my fondest climbing memories involving falling off loads and getting benighted!
I am fortunate to have loads of climbing on the doorstep and usually climb 4/5 times a week but in the last fortnight I’ve barely gone at all. I plan on going out soon and doing some back to basic skill sessions like practice falls and footwork drills. Hopefully leaving with the intention of not getting up anything will help take the pressure of and bring some fun back into it. If that fails I think a longer break like you had would help a lot. I am a reasonably keen runner so I may turn to that if climbing doesn’t feel enjoyable again soon - rather than making myself feel worse.
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Your sons journey is nice to hear - it’s great to hear from you guys that taking a long break can help and doesn’t mean the end of a journey.
My climbing all started as trad and at the moment it’s mainly sport with some bouldering in the mix. I used to do a bit of alpine & Scottish winter stuff but haven’t held an axe for over a year and a half. I am tempted to try and rekindle that side of things. There’s a few routes I’ve always wanted to do that are more about being in the mountains than desperate moves. That might help to mix it up and shift some focus on to enjoying the landscape and environment as well as the climbing itself.
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There’s a few routes I’ve always wanted to do that are more about being in the mountains than desperate moves. That might help to mix it up and shift some focus on to enjoying the landscape and environment as well as the climbing itself.
Sounds perfect. :2thumbsup:
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Hi Camo, good post. For me, climbing is a multifaceted activity. If you just focus on the sense of achievement from gymnastic accomplishment you are missing a lot of what else is on offer.
When I was young it was only ever trad climbing for me; then I used to just sport climb. Then bouldering. Now I'm into trad again. It evolves, just don't fixate on the one aspect. If it's the ego boost from difficulty that's hard to ditch, maybe that's why you have started to feel jaded? And doing hard moves on a trad climb high above a wire is harder than above a bolt, no question. Maybe you could try another kind of hard?
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Hi Mrjonathanr,
I do think I became motivated by an ego boost which feels shameful to admit to but it’s true. I loved trad for many years and I always had a ‘decent’ head for it but after a lot of sport I have somewhat lost my bottle! I have found it a little demoralising to have to work back up to things which I previously wasn’t bothered by but it is an important part of the process. I think practice falls and fear will be something I spend a lot of time on in the near future. I don’t think it’s even about improving to help boost trad performance but more about realising skills are always evolving and aren’t static. As well as a change in focus from things like finger strength to make it fresh again. Talking to shark got my brain ticking about some alpine things I’d love to go back and do so it might be good to spend some time climbing below my limit and focusing on moving efficiently and smoothly.
Thanks to everyone for the replies it’s definitely got the cogs whirring and made me think about things I’ve neglected that I know I get pleasure from.
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Okay people have been giving good answers especially MJR above.
I've read all your post and you obviously are astute and well aware of what you've done and how you've approached climbing in an eventually detrimental way. So, in theory, you know what to avoid and what pitfalls are around - is there any need to say "Yeah don't get caught up with comparing yourself to others and chasing numbers to post on social media"?? ;)
A couple things....
As MJR says the breadth of climbing experiences can be a great way to freshen up your climbing and keep it interesting. If you're fortunate / sensible enough to enjoy various aspects then switching in between different sub-genres will ensure that you don't achieve your true limits in any one genre (like, pffft, whatever) but instead have a wide variety of challenge and inspiration and get a hell of a lot more good climbing done. Personally my trad was BS this last year despite it being my main focus. Come autumn I tried some Welsh bouldering thanks to the new NWB bible, got completely psyched and had a whale (!) of a time, as well as pushing my highballing and flashing problems a bit.
Going along with that, I always recommend new venues and new destinations. If I'm in ever in a rut, a fresh crag / area with lots of options gives the opportunity to just get some fun climbing done, maybe stuff that's challenging, maybe not so much, but if there's plenty of choice it doesn't matter either way, it's all refreshing and relaxing compared to going to the same places where all that is left is big daunting projecty challenges.
Finally you can seek challenges and push yourself in all sorts of different ways as part of the process. Do Small Grades in a style that doesn't suit you, go for some big mileage days and see how your session stamina holds up, pick a genre you usually work stuff in and try to flash stuff at a lower grade, train different areas that are maybe less relevant to your current goals but that can widen your mental and physical skill sets. I did this on a stupid parkour problem at the Depot in the autumn, I'm crap at stupid parkour and it was no obvious use to my current climbing, but it was an interesting fun and experience going from "WTF this is stupid I can't do this jumping BS" to "Hey, now I can do a silly wee trick I couldn't before".
Also do more deadlifting. Just because.
:strongbench:
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Hi Fiend,
Great reply thank you. I think what you said about trying things that aren’t my style at a lower grade to flash or mileage days etc is a very good idea. I can be a bit single minded and stick to things that suit me and stay in a safe zone. I’d likely have a very steep learning curve doing some slabs near or just below my onsight limit on the steep walls I tend to stick to.
I have been making notes and thinking of different ways to mix it up and remove the success and grade aspect out of it.
I think it’ll be good to have sessions focused on skill development, working on weaknesses, try different styles and different rock types. I will try to make an effort to focus on learning and if I get spanked on slabs then I can leave satisfied knowing that I’ve learnt something and chipped away a bit of my weakness - as opposed to feeling pissed for not getting a route in the bag.
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Am new here as well, good topic for my first post. Personally I've always done a fair variety of climbing, mixing it up within the year between sport, trad and winter/ alpine/ expedition climbing, with the more adventurous stuff having been my priority over the past few years. I've always found that this mix keeps me motivated - I'm not one of those people who can climb in the big mountains all the time, but equally I have a thirst for adventure which can't be filled by sport climbing. Doing one for a while leaves me craving the other.
You said that you also come from a trad background, and if you feel that you've lost what you originally found in climbing, maybe that's the place to turn back to. And if you're finding the focus on performance grating, then remove that for a while. Just go do some easy routes in the hills, maybe even some hill walking, or go to crags you wanted to go to but never got round to visiting because the projects took over. Sometimes its nice just going to have a look at crags without taking your boots - if you get the urge to go back because you're inspired by a particular line then that's pretty good intrinsic motivation. You'll soon remember what got you into it originally, and I'm going to some new places will help you discover some different goals to ultimately work towards once your motivation is back.
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P.S. Here's the other performance topic which may or may not have some stimulation: https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,30161.0.html
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Hi Ben,
I do definitely think variety and mix is a good idea. You’re right for sure about removing the performance element for a while to focus on other things.
For me in mainly a sport phase at the minute I think I will try to address some of the problems before changing the type of climbing. I 100% want to rekindle the alpine and do more trad. I do think it might be worth trying to put a few things to bed before moving on to another style, that way there’s less chance of me being put off returning in future.
I think the best way to do that is try changing the focus of the sessions and mix them up to start. I liked fiends suggestions of trying more mileage or more flashing instead of always being at my limit. Hopefully that’ll help me get some psyche back and then it’ll be time to dust my nuts off and sharpen some axes!
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Hi Fiend, very well put by yourself in the link thanks for that. I know what you mean, I think it’s something I need to pay attention to.
I’m definitely guilty of one arming my way up hard things with shoddy footwork for the sake of a tick. It would be great to try climbing a route a few grades lower than normal and perhaps trying to climb with straight arms as much as possible, find and use rests better, focus on precise footwork and aim to climb as efficiently as possible to not get pumped. A bit like a fancy version of the game they play with kids in the walls with wine corks on the footholds!
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John Kettle's book would be an interesting read for you then. It's practice, not theory.
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I’ll have to have a google for that thank you. I’ve heard of John Kettle but I wasn’t aware he had a book. I will likely end up by the rock warriors way by Arno Ilgner at some point too.
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Regarding the John kettle book, anyone got any reason to pick PDF over paper book? If you get one do you get the other?
I like books, but might be useful to be able to peruse at wall/crag without messing up a nice book....
With motivation, I have had a few dips, sometimes this is because I am falling off things I think I should do. One cure I have found for this is getting loads of milage on things, trying to do 50 problems/routes in a day, or going doing some easy classic mountain routes I meant to do when I started out, then ignored later because they are "only easy". These have been some of my best days! I find particulalry with mileage bouldering, you can get loads done, climb loads of cool moves, and remember why you started out doing it - climbing up stuff is fun! You just have to do what you are psyched for. Mixing up disciplines and venues is a big help. I am also a puerile ticker, so having a ticklist (classic rock, yorkshire grit 3* routes, 100 routes at gogarth etc.) also keeps my psyched. By having a mix of targets, I am never going to be an amazing climber, but I do get to climb loads of cool stuff and stay psyched doing it.
If you are into running, maybe doing some big link ups (either soloing at various moorland crags, or light rack and big link ups in wales/lakes) might be fun! Essentially going for a walk and getting some ticks at the same time.
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Hi Dunny,
Great reply thanks. I very much like the idea of the link ups with mountain routes and running! The lakes classic rock round is good for that and I would be comfortable soloing those routes too so it would have a totally different feel to what I’ve been doing lately. Mileage days would be good too, I also thought about going to a crag without a guide book and then climbing things that appeal aesthetically and having no influence from grade. Just need to make sure I don’t end up majorly sandbagging myself!
As a side note I’ve always thought it’s odd that I’m happy soloing things well under my limit but get scared leading some things at/above my limit when In reality the former is much more dangerous. Perceived risk vs actual risk I suppose.
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As a side note I’ve always thought it’s odd that I’m happy soloing things well under my limit but get scared leading some things at/above my limit when In reality the former is much more dangerous. Perceived risk vs actual risk I suppose.
Soloing easy-for-you escapable stuff well in control is very different and usually less traumatic than having to try hard and commit with a strong possibility of falling off. The risk can be equivalent.
Think ‘Cheque’ (regular poster) recently said that a lot of easy soloing adversely affected his lead head.
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There’s a few routes I’ve always wanted to do that are more about being in the mountains than desperate moves. That might help to mix it up and shift some focus on to enjoying the landscape and environment as well as the climbing itself.
Sounds perfect. :2thumbsup:
This is similar for me. I’m not un-motivated as such, but found myself not going outside climbing much for whatever reasons. So this year I’ve set myself a bunch of routes at some of my favourite crags. All which should be do-able within a day (except 1 or 2 which are a little harder).
The aim is to try and shift the focus to getting back out and visiting places which I keep meaning to re-visit where I know I’ll have a great day out.
The aims for me then become planning some nice trips and keeping up my current level of climbing without needing to improve much/at-all. I do want to try and do some training as well but hopefully this will just mean I can onsight the routes and then get on a few others whilst there.
The result is that I’m way more psyched about the spring/summer ahead as I know it will just be about going to some nice places and not having to push myself too hard either. It came about following a trip to Spain in December where, other than one route, I just had a nice time onsighting. This meant I didn’t have too much focus either. Sometimes I’d be happy just with the one route for the day, others I’d try and do as many as my body would allow.
Definitely a good way forward for me!
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Camo, not sure where you are based (or your typical grade). But I've always thought that things like trying to climb every bold star sub 7 in the peak bouldering guide seems liked a really good plan, for when you lose the psyche on hard projects. I think a couple posters on here have done it before (maybe highrepute?)
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=503
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1277
Gets you to a variety of crags and nice problems without chasing the grade. Stops you overthinking it (which is a common problem in climbing (I think :) ))
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Aside from all the great alternatives to grade chasing that have been posted, I think it's good to note that some degree of grade chasing can be ok. You've probably tipped past the balance point a little and need to reset but getting properly involved with a project, being inspired in the beginning, making progress and getting psyched, set backs and hating it the next session, training and still struggling, feeling worthless, letting go and then eventually sending etc. is all part of the journey and can be worthwhile.
I'm going through this right now just because I want to tick X grade for the sake of it. I'm currently in a place of frustration but there's also a strange enjoyment that comes with it.
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That’s very interesting shark. I get what you mean about it being easy and escapable but it’s very intriguing someone found it had adverse effects on lead head.
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Hi James,
That sounds like a great way of approaching it. I can think of a few places that I’d love to go for a reasonably chilled day out and climb some quality routes. It’s a shame I’ve not been back to some places sooner! I had a fantastic day on the east butress a few years ago onsighting routes at my limit. I’ve improved a bit since then and I’ve been dying to get back and do some of the other routes there too.
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Hi JamieG
Those look great! I would hope to flash most of those but I’m no grit guru! Every time I’ve traveled for some grit action I find some stuff very amenable and some sandbags! Would be a real nice day out to get lots of mileage and no stress either. The last time I did something simmilar was late last year in Font on the circuits there. Flashed some 6C’s and then got completely spanked on some sketchy 3 & 4 slabs!! All great fun and part of the day out!
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Hi Liam,
I get your point of view totally and I can see why you like to do it that way.
For me though I think it has to be a bit more than just the number - even if the number played some part. I guess if I was to choose a project in the next month or so I’d go for something with an inspiring line, maybe some history and quality rock. That way I think the chance of burning out would be less (For me anyway). When I was grade chasing the desire wasn’t ‘genuine’ so I think I need to find things that motivate intrinsically.
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Hi Camo,
Sounds like you had the complete font experience then! Did some bleausard then appear out of nowhere in a pair of old boots, a little towel, pof and just float up the 3s & 4s? :-)
To be fair the footholds get ridiculously polished on the easy circuits.
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Haha yes we did get thoroughly shown up by some locals! I weirdly found the climbing on the black circuits a bit easier than some of the polished ‘easier’ circuits partly because of polish and partly because I couldn’t one arm out of a slab!
The other weird font experience was loads of blokes driving round and round the car parks late on looking for a prostitute...the hookers has obviously had enough and gone home (it was cold)! But said dodgy blokes kept looking in my van to see if I had one with me in case they could have a go when I was done!
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Maybe they’d just seen your one armers and wanted some of the action . . .
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By the looks of them they’d have taken any action they could get - which is saying something as facially I resemble shrek