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the shizzle => bouldering => Topic started by: Nibile on December 03, 2016, 01:48:41 pm

Title: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: Nibile on December 03, 2016, 01:48:41 pm
Ok, so yesterday I was watching a couple of videos of Huffy's Roof at Curbar. It brings the Lip Problem up from 7a to 7c+, right?
So how is it possible that the same extension brings Musče Imaginaire up from 7b+ to 8a?
Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: r-man on December 03, 2016, 02:09:44 pm
Lip problem doesn't add much to huffy's roof. 7C+ into a 7A finish. You shouldn't struggle on the finish if you can do the roof.

7C+ into a 7B+ is a bit different. Dawid gave it 7C+ when he did the FA, but it has to be harder than huffy's. Anyway, doesn't seem to get many repeats (maybe none?) whereas the easier finish (Detox) has had loads of repeats and lots of people take 8A for it.

Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: Nibile on December 03, 2016, 02:15:17 pm
I understand that the easier problem being after the hard extension makes a difference. It would be another thing doing the harder part after 7a or 7b+.
But still...
Let's say: Huffy's 7c+7a=7c+.
Musče 7c+7b+=8a.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: tim palmer on December 03, 2016, 06:29:57 pm
I think a good rule of thumb is....
Add the two 'v' grades together add 4 and divide the result by 2
So
Huffys = (10 + 6 + 4)/2 = v10
Musče = (10+8+4)/2= v11
Seems about right
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: abarro81 on December 03, 2016, 06:32:11 pm
I don't get what's surprising here, are you saying they sound the same grade or that the difference should be bigger than 1 grade?
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: dave on December 03, 2016, 06:39:40 pm
Quote from: r-man on December 03, 2016, 02:09:44 pm
Lip problem doesn't add much to huffy's roof. 7C+ into a 7A finish. You shouldn't struggle on the finish if you can do the roof.

7C+ into a 7B+ is a bit different. Dawid gave it 7C+ when he did the FA, but it has to be harder than huffy's. Anyway, doesn't seem to get many repeats (maybe none?) whereas the easier finish (Detox) has had loads of repeats and lots of people take 8A for it.

While we're on this, does anyone actually think Detox is 8a? Felt no harder than Huffys to me, but actually a better finish. So they are either both 8a or both 7c+.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: abarro81 on December 03, 2016, 07:05:16 pm
Detox is 7c+ IMO
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: Nibile on December 06, 2016, 08:33:07 am
Quote from: abarro81 on December 03, 2016, 06:32:11 pm
I don't get what's surprising here, are you saying they sound the same grade or that the difference should be bigger than 1 grade?
The second option.
I can't see how adding a much harder finish to the same start can produce a smaller increase in difficulty. I know bouldering is not maths, but...

Tim, that seems to work, but it seems a bit arbitrary: why adding 4 and not 3, for instance? Is it a common formula?
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: haydn jones on December 06, 2016, 09:50:36 am
Ive genrally found the V+V+4/2 formula tor work. However. Where it doesn't  work so well is if its a sustained endurance boulder into a one mover. So v6 traverse into a 2 move v11 adds up to v10.5 where as in reality it could be up to v13
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: Duma on December 06, 2016, 11:36:13 am
Quote from: tim palmer on December 03, 2016, 06:29:57 pm
I think a good rule of thumb is....
Add the two 'v' grades together add 4 and divide the result by 2

Clearly doesn't work if there's more than 4 grades between the problems.

Also very problematic for "easier" endurance problems into harder sequences.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: andy_e on December 06, 2016, 11:50:42 am
Someone needs to do some SCIENCE on this to produce a full equation.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: User deactivated on December 06, 2016, 12:55:24 pm
Probably been posted before but covered well in this article I thought.

http://www.australianbouldering.com/table.html
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: tim palmer on December 07, 2016, 05:42:02 pm
Um I read it somewhere years ago and it always seems to be there or there abouts in places like the cave, but as I said it is just a rule of thumb and there are exceptions. 
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: User deactivated on December 07, 2016, 05:59:05 pm
Yeah totally agree, only a rough guide. It does say in the article there will be expetions, ie V9 into V5 could well still only be V9.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: cowboyhat on December 08, 2016, 01:49:47 pm
Quote from: JackPal on December 06, 2016, 12:55:24 pm
Probably been posted before but covered well in this article I thought.

http://www.australianbouldering.com/table.html

AHHRRgggHH MY EYES!

Seriously who the fuck does that? Can someone translate/ sum it up for me please, I've got an eye hernia trying to read the first line.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: jwi on December 08, 2016, 02:02:04 pm
If g1 and g2 are the grades of the two parts the whole is given the grade
max(max(g1, g2), floor(1/2 *(g1 + g2 + 4)))
give or take a grade.

Grades on the Hueco scale.

Some examples where this is true were given.
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: Duma on December 08, 2016, 03:20:27 pm
no examples given of how the grade magically drops if the two parts are more than 4 V grades apart though....
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: haydn jones on December 08, 2016, 08:39:10 pm
The grade dropping correct. Due to it being longer and more stamina due to easier climbing. You have to get the moves more dialed and so it feels easier. This is why such things as lets get ready to rumbleweed gets 8A. But if you add a 7B start to it then it goes down to 7C+
Title: Re: Genuine question about extensions grades.
Post by: Clart on December 17, 2016, 12:57:28 pm
Quote from: haydn jones on December 08, 2016, 08:39:10 pm
The grade dropping correct. Due to it being longer and more stamina due to easier climbing. You have to get the moves more dialed and so it feels easier. This is why such things as lets get ready to rumbleweed gets 8A. But if you add a 7B start to it then it goes down to 7C+
By that logic could I claim a higher grade by having it less dialed? Is there a dial-o-meter to quantify this?

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