UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => power club => Topic started by: JackAus on June 21, 2015, 01:47:37 pm
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STG: More V7s. Sub 75kg.
MTG: V8. Fear Factory List. 6/10 done.
LTG: V11.
M: Rest. Only day at work all week because of rain.
T: Crumbly. Soaked. Tried Sushi Train V8, feet skating off everywhere. Did a V3 just to tick something.
Went to St Leonards after. New stuff. Bored pretty quickly. Fingerboard after.
W: Mate's garage board. 60 degrees. Steep... Hard climbing on here!
T: St Leonards. Moon holds finally put back on the 45! Made up a bunch of really cool tricky problems. Not so bored when I come in here now.
F: St Leonards. Short late night session. Moon holds problems again. Still haven't topped one... Maybe they're a tad hard... :D
S: Black Cave, Manly. Been meaning to get here for a while. Pretty doable looking V7 lip traverse of a cave right next to the water. The start was running water and the landing for the start was puddles.... So I nearly flashed it skipping the wet holds. 2nd go, to the same place just missed a LH bump to an undercut. 3rd go, RF felt different but went for it anyway, came off missed pad and landed on rock on my right ass cheek. Instantaneous pain. Had to crawl onto pad and just lay on stomach for a couple minutes. We all decided to leave at that point. Could easy do the problem, honestly felt upper V5 to me. Really should've flashed it.
Rockhouse after. Did a few ofthe harder problems there. Every move and jump down and sitting hurt my ass.
Late beers to finish the night.
S: Frontline. Quiet and damp arvo. Warmed up on some of the usual things then jumped back on Boogie Knights V7. Repeated it for video and worked the low start which gets v8.
My ass still hurts constantly and I can't even sit down properly. I don't know how I'm going to spend all day on rope tomorrow for work.......
Boogie Knights
(http://www.thecrag.com/image/photo/00003/modified/689840355.jpg)
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STG:
Increase strength on two finger pockets, all pairs.
MTG:
Flashing a few non-vertical white boulderprobs in the gym.
Onsight one 8a or five 7c+'s this year. Preferably both.
Do something fairly challenging in Taghia in September.
LTG: TBD
Mon: Rest
Tue : Bouldering in the gym.Did an overhanging white in 3 tries
Wed: General strength programme. General feeling of listlessness. Had a small wound on my pinky toe that hurt a bit in the morning
Thu: Fingerboarding, two-finger pockets all pairs. Tried to find the appropriate weight to make me fail in 13 s. Foot swollen and a bit funny colour. At 17:00 developed rashes (looked like nettle rash) over entire body.
Fri. Went to see doctor, got prescribed antibiotics and antihistamine
Sat. Did not improve. Got fever late at night. Talked to a doctor friend and mom (who's a district nurse), both told me to go to the emergency room in large hosptial. Spent most of the night at the hospital being prodded at.
Sun. Got sent home 5am, with a diagnosis of unclear viral infection and light bacterial infection. Rest. Rashes makes it impossible to hold on to holds, so I guess I'll have a rest of undetermined length from know on.
Progression:
Weight: 69-70 kg
8a's onsighted this year: 0/1
7c+'s onsighted this year: 2/5
Overhaning whites flashed in gym: 0
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Summer's here, time to give up grade-chasing.
M - Rest
T - BM session, hard as I've been skipping my training in favour of climbing.
W - Indoor, bimonthly visit to Arkose, did all the easy stuff, it was ridiculously hot, lasted a couple of hours.
Th - Rest
F- Rest
Sa - I've been psyching myself all week for my yearly visit to Cuvier, I've watched far too many youtube videos. i have a long tick list of problems to work on. I'm going to kill it today.
Arrive late, warm up, feel O.K. Fail to get anywhere on a couple of red problems which I was obviously going to piss up as they looked so easy on video.
Go and have a look at Marie-Rose, I've been avoiding trying this until I thought I had a fighting chance. Get up to the move up for the first sloper, can't decide wether to lank it or, dink my foot up a bit. The clouds occassional cover the sun, but mainly it was in direct sunlight, bad planning on my part. Go and fall off some more reds, try a nice problem called Triangulation which I can't do. Return to Marie-Rose which has got even more slippery in the last hour or so. Do some oranges, just to top something out. Beaten by Cuvier again.
Su - Rest
Did some shoulder stuff most days.
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Nice Pic Jack - Virus thing sounds very unpleasant jwi :(
OK, but sketchy on the days this week - and been quite alot of pressure from other stuff going on.. but I think...
M:
Tu: CragX to send work on Jericho Road. Felt good, but spooned off in the same places as before. had three really good full on attempts. Then decided to spend some time working the end section - worked out some slightly different foot beta that helped my balance. But then was too knackered to link. Did the two halves individaully a few times as a work out. Forgot to brush of tick marks and left..
W: Dentist. Replaced a fallen out filling with a white filling. Nice job! Much better than the shit that was there before...
Th: Helsby. Just NEEDED to get out for an hour or so after a fairly intense morning.. Was going to walk up the hill to the woods buttress, but at the last minute swerved right and went up to the little traverse buttress above the hill. Theres a 7A eliminate traverse there I've not done - and after 45 min - it was done. Ramp Eliminate its called - and has a series of throws from small slopey holds to large less slopey holds and repeat.. Happy Tom. Only one hard problem left to do at Helsby for me now... Ron Burgandys Moustache - V8 (is that 7B in the correct currency?)
Fr: Osteopath in the morning. Was amazed at how my thoracic spine had freed up! Said come back in 3 months! However, similar to thursday - HAD to get out for a bit - went to Hobson Moor - where Pillar Face 7A (I think its called that) lured me in a few months back when I was first out after back trouble. This time it went after about 30 min - a two move wonder. Throw for a slot of a shitty foot hold, then biiig move for the top. Good stuff. Traversed some stuff in my trainers (clean of course) and then went..
Sa: Hoping to work the forecast, went up to see the folks in Kendal in the morning/lunch -then stopped at Trowbarrow on the way back. Spoogy conditions.. drying and humid.. Came very close to the 7A+ on the left I was trying the week before (GRR... bottled the final throw then ran out of beans..) - then had a futile play on Pit Problem.
Su: Hoped to get out today - but just didnt feel like it. Back is playing up again - I think I need a new car - driving seems to really set it off...
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Back is playing up again - I think I need a new car - driving seems to really set it off...
I keep getting this totally randomly, one day it feels strong and I'm thinking about running and core work, the next I wake up and walk like a board for two hours. Very frustrating.
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STG: redpoint 7a #3
weight below 80kg - currently about 82
MTG (2015): 7b redpoint
Beastmaker 5A routine: 94.3%
Muscle Up
Sautanz
LTG (<= 5 years): Big alpine rock routes: Totenkirchl West Face (Dülfer), Marmolada south face (Vinatzer Messner)
M: Wall, Freimann. Routes 5b 5c 6a+ 7a 7a (attempts) 6c+ 6b+ 6c (increasingly feeble attempts). Pretty weak session, but the left calf appears to have coped with it ok, which is the main thing at the moment.
T: Bike to work 25km
Elbow/shoulder prehab + mucho calf stretching & foam rolling. Don't want the Mystery Problem to recur.
During which listened Alex Barrows podcast on trainingbeta and found it excellent.
W: Bike to work 25km
T:
F: Should have been driving to the Frankenjura but rain stopped play. Went to the wall (Boulderwelt) instead and had a weak circuits session. Failed to match high point on the 7b proj.
S:
S: Frankenjura bouldering. Took a chance on a dodgy weather forecast and drove up in the hope of getting something done between showers. Boy have I been missing out.
I haven't bouldered much outdoors in recent years - if I have time free and decent weather I prefer to get on routes. And in general I've never done much limestone bouldering. This was a real eye opener - how much there is to learn about finger power, body positioning, footwork for which plastic is useless, and on routes there's too much else going on.
Went with a friend who is quite a bit stronger and we were working a 7A traverse. Found it very hard but not impossible, did all but one of the moves singly. Medium term project.
Note to self: boulder more. On limestone.
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M - rest
T - Stoney. Lead Bubbles Original after failing to onsite the E4 start, don't think I was quite warmed up enough for such savage crimping. Wasn't in the best nick but just scraped up it pumped senseless. Trad's nails.
w- rest
Th - Malham, started strongly, but then just crashed. Third burn up Raindogs powered out after 8 moves and struggled from then. Tried some easier stuff but kept going from feeling fresh and confident to powered out and unable to hang on in a matter of seconds (wonder if this is down to an AnCap/AeroCap imbalance causing poor performance as abarro mentions in his pdf?).
Had had a fear of falling all day which wasn't helped by another nasty straddle fall to round the day off.
FS nowt
S hour of open-hand garage bouldering. Again just fell off a cliff power-wise, tried to fingerboard instead but just couldn't hang on.
2x8x60s Foot on campussing
It's all gone a bit wrong this week, developed tenderness in RH middle finger A1/C0 area which makes crimping uncomfortable, and a couple of tweaky PIPS. Haven't slept beyond 4am all week and feel a total wreck. At least the dilemma of how to train going forward has been resolved, down to the default options of fingerboarding, open-hand bouldering and foot-on-campussing.
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Slow start this week. GF starts a new job tomorrow so we squeezed in a few days away as she'll have limited holiday for the rest of the year. This means I've had to do lots of training in the latter part of the week, so totally broken today. Need another weeks holiday now!
M - Drive to York from Sheffield. Never been before, nice place. Lots of walking around, lots of eating fattening foods, drove a boat around for 1 hour. Mobile training setup at the hotel (BM2000 on a powerbar) and did 7:3s AeroCap (front 3, open handed) and a half-ass attempt of a core workout. More food at French restuarant on the evening.
T - Fattening breakfast and Lunch in York, then drive to Whitby (again, never been before). Lots more walking followed by more fattening food in the evening.
W - Decided to cut the trip short, so after more fattening food for breakfast and lunch (fish and chips at the seaside), we drove back to Sheffield (4 hours!). 7:3s AeroCap (front 3, open handed) and a few core exercises.
T - Convince GF to belay me briefly on Powerplant (8a) at Chee Dale. Dogged up to get the clips in but it was so cold that I couldn't feel my fingers, so stripped it once I got to the top. Seems very hard for the grade and have had to take it off the 8a list for now as it appears to require a right leg kneebar and kneebars are hurting my hamstring tendon which I tweaked badly a month or so ago. Go to the works and do most of the wasps circuit (up to Font 6C) mainly onsite but a few took a go or two. Out to a restuarant on the evening to eat tonnes of tapas.
F - Lowish intensity FB session and 5 sets of pullups.
S - Climbing works. Finish off remaining wasps then did the wasp on the left side of the comp wall, roughly 7B but hard to tell as I was quite tired and it took me a while to figure out the moves. Two sets of core routines. Shattered
S - Foot on campussing (AeroPow) at the works, 2 sets (wanted to do 3 sets but got there late and had to squeeze in the aerocap). 40 mins AeroCap, actually got to do the last set on the main walls, which was way more fun than traversing the kiddies wall.
Bit of a poor weak for outdoor climbing, which is what I love but knew I'd have to sacrifice things once I started training. A bit stunned at how hard Powerplant felt, made me realise that I haven't got long enough to realistically tick an 8a of that length before my birthday so have decided to look at shorter ones instead. Think hot fun closing could be a good candidate. 7B boulder into ? looks short and a little bit of history with it being the first 8a in the peak district (according to a blog post of Steve Macs that I read).
Really keen to get my first 8a ticked asap to take the pressure off and then I can start to have a play on other classics (of all grades) and get the occasional trip up to Yorkshire too.
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T - Convince GF to belay me briefly on Powerplant (8a) at Chee Dale. Dogged up to get the clips in but it was so cold that I couldn't feel my fingers, so stripped it once I got to the top. Seems very hard for the grade and have had to take it off the 8a list for now as it appears to require a right leg kneebar and kneebars are hurting my hamstring tendon which I tweaked badly a month or so ago.
I wouldn't be too put off by it feeling hard, there's quite a bit of beta to it. That said, if you really can't do the knee then that might be a problem. What moves were giving you trouble?
It's really got to be one of the best UK 8as (think Ste Mac put it at #6), whilst Hot Fun does have the history it's certainly nowhere near as good. Also, unless you're already familiar with Kudos Wall, be warned, any grade there is hard-earned.
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7:3s AeroCap
Are you sure?
hot fun closing could be a good candidate. 7B boulder into ?
now the lower flake has broken it's quite a bit harder at the bottom, probably about 6C now straight after the 7B boulder to get to the break, top wall is about 6C-7A too and is no gimme, quite common to fall off the last couple of moves. Also, the holds on the top aren't very positive, needs cool connies.
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7:3s AeroCap
Are you sure?
hot fun closing could be a good candidate. 7B boulder into ?
now the lower flake has broken it's quite a bit harder at the bottom, probably about 6C now straight after the 7B boulder to get to the break
Yeah, that's the real dealbreaker for me, unless I was doing it wrong the "new" move is pretty ming too. I was feeling optimistic the other day after finally breaking through my block on Kudos but sacked it after trying that move. Besides, there's many better things dry now.
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I wouldn't be too put off by it feeling hard, there's quite a bit of beta to it. That said, if you really can't do the knee then that might be a problem. What moves were giving you trouble?
It's really got to be one of the best UK 8as (think Ste Mac put it at #6), whilst Hot Fun does have the history it's certainly nowhere near as good. Also, unless you're already familiar with Kudos Wall, be warned, any grade there is hard-earned.
Yeh, don't really want to force the leg if I can help it. It made some very disconcerting crunching noises when I damaged the tendon and I'm only just getting back to light heelhooking on that side. Kneebars seem worse than heelhooks for whatever reason.
I've done some of the easier stuff (up to 7B) on Kudos but am aware how much good temps make on that wall.
7:3s AeroCap
Are you sure?
hot fun closing could be a good candidate. 7B boulder into ?
now the lower flake has broken it's quite a bit harder at the bottom, probably about 6C now straight after the 7B boulder to get to the break, top wall is about 6C-7A too and is no gimme, quite common to fall off the last couple of moves. Also, the holds on the top aren't very positive, needs cool connies.
Yeh, I'm doing the 7:3's at 50% of my max strength.
I see where you're coming from with the temps side of thing, it really does get warm there and I'm not sure when that section will be in the shade, so could limit tries to cloudy days and whilst cloudy days are almost guaranteed, I don't want to be limited by temps too much.
I should be OK with those sort of boulder grades, so long as I can recover well at the break. Might pop down one evening this week and actually do Kudos as I've only had half-hearted attempts at the end of a session before after trying some of the harder stuff.
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Open to other route suggestions if anyone can chip in though. I think short and bouldering is going to have to be the way until I've ticked my first one, then I'm happy to siege some longer stuff.
I'm Sheffield based, so would prefer Peak stuff. Potential climbing days are most evenings and weekends, if that makes a difference to which wall to climb on. Appreciate any advice!
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Yeah, that's the real dealbreaker for me, unless I was doing it wrong the "new" move is pretty ming too. I was feeling optimistic the other day after finally breaking through my block on Kudos but sacked it after trying that move. Besides, there's many better things dry now.
Yep, hard, painful and awkward. Yet to link from the ground having done it five times in a row previously. One session on it and the skin on my right index is destroyed by the gaston. I've put a lot into this and come so close but I'm not rushing to get back on it.
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M-family stuff. in emergency room after daughter fell down stairs, knocked herself out and ended up w 5 stitches.
T-Soccer Game
W-Campus session - New PB stuck 1-4-6.5. :)
Th-Mtn Bike-90min
F-Big day outside finally. Cleaned 7 new problems, sent 5 - FA, v3, v6,v7, and v8. also s=did new v1. Worked a new v10 coming off the last move and tweaking shoulder, so no more goes. Also cleaned and worked a likely v11. Pretty excited about this new area. loads of potential for nice hard lines. Will be very dense for hard stuff.
S-Nothing/rest, family day
S-2 hr hike w dad and family day
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Yep, hard, painful and awkward. Yet to link from the ground having done it five times in a row previously. One session on it and the skin on my right index is destroyed by the gaston. I've put a lot into this and come so close but I'm not rushing to get back on it.
OK, sounds like you were doing it the same way as me, that gaston is so nasty I don't think I'll bother again.
I'd suggest Free Monster maybe, only heel in that is a big left foot one and unless you're short the hard bit is fairly short lived and low down. Pumpy at the top but I never fell there once I got through the crux. I though it was easier than Powerplant or Roof Warrior for example which are similar lengths and styles.
(Disclaimer - I don't really like pure boulder routes)
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Hard for me to recommend any routes having not competed any of them, question has been asked a few times though so have a search. Think about your tactics though, like where will you be able to get partners for repeatedly, what will be in condition most often. Tor is likely the best option all round. If you can do the boulder problems there's a few on the RHS you could consider and short chimes is both bouldery and fairly reliable for connies.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. Free Monster looks a bit long (but awesome) but short chimes is on my shortlist.
Never really thought about the partner sides of tactics, think you're right about the tor, always people wanting to go there. I have got short chimes on the shortlist, I'll try and get on it to check the moves out this week too perhaps if it's dry.
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If you have a dodgy right knee then Chimes is pretty much the worst route in the peak that I could think of for you to try I'm afraid
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11.5-7
M.
T. AM Tor Humid and greasy. Climbed with Karl B. Stickclipped up BM and worked AM on way down. Second go linked hole to clipping bolt but messed up sequence. Third go Linked hole to clipping bolt and nearly got to pull on high left side pull despite being tired. Apres Tor - soloed 7 routes at Stanage up to HVS
W. Late Eve Fingerboard Warm and humid but better when opened the window and door. Some improvement. Still off best scores from March but getting there
T.
F.AM Tor Climbed with Nick C Good conditions and hopeful of a highpoint. Stickclipped up AM and worked the moves. Fingers felt really good especially with the good conditions but lacked arm burl for the crux lock. Two further goes failing to do crux. Apres Tor a Horseshoe this time. Did Shot Your Bolt (6b) but flailed on the two 7a's to the left which I've done before. 2 rest days in order
S.
S.
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Chimes should be dry but most sequences for getting to the lip (at least for mortals) involve a pretty powerful right heel toe which mightn't be so good for your injury (EDIT: like Barrows said). It's also very much about anerobic fitness (think long 7B+/C boulder) which may be good or bad depending on your point of view.
Rattle and Hump is 8a and very powerful but I've never been beyond the boulder problem (which is good and well worth doing anyway). People seem to say the bit after the jug is harder than the start. Bear in mind that any short 8a is going to be pretty desperate, I think it's by far the hardest way to "get the tick" unless you literally never do anything other than boulder.
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R&H after the jug is hard but in a weird gastonny way, its hard to say whether its harder then the start or not. Its comparable, but different type of move. If it was down at floor level on pinches wall it'd probably feel fine.
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STG. 8a redpoint
M. Rest
T. Got on Free Monster for the first time. Did all moves quite easily, really suits me. Reckon this might be the one for me! Just need it to dry up a little more, still a bit wet in some of the holds.
W. Rest
T. Rest
F. Indoor session at BBC, just bouldering.
S. Second time on Free Monster. Absolutely awful conditions. Some holds now wetter and humidity making it very hard to hold the dry ones. Did all moves again and refined the beta, no chance of making any decent links, hands and feet slipping left right and centre. Little evening session trying Mark's Roof, still can't do it.
S. Rest
Time to start the PE training for the next few weeks and hope for some dry weather.
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Mon. Weight 11st10.1LBS bike 1 hour intervals 20 secs on 40 secs off x5 3 sets. Fasting diet
Tue. Nothing went shopping for food as the missus wants to do slimming world diet. Over indulged on food and wine.
Wed. Board really struggled failed on every thing other than my warm ups.
Thu. Board. Did everything I failed on last night either first or second go. Good session.
Fri. Bike 1 hour intervals 1 min on 2 mins off x 10. Grandson to stay.
Sat. Board did a project and repeated several problems within a few goes that has taken several sessions to do. Family stuff. Bike early evening. 1 hr 19 mins 23.12 miles.
Sun. Board easy mirror session left fore finger tip split yet again. Family stuff. Bike early evening 2 hrs 4 mins. 36.80 miles.
Weight mon morning. 11st 3.4 LBS. :2thumbsup:
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The move after the jug on R & H is nails. Salars quite friendly and soft I think.
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I'm with Doylo on this one. Most shorties I know find the R&H move ok, most tallies don't so it might be a good one if you're small? Or maybe I'm just making excuses. Salar is steady, at least if you're tall. It's not particularly good though.
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Open to other route suggestions if anyone can chip in though. I think short and bouldering is going to have to be the way until I've ticked my first one, then I'm happy to siege some longer stuff.
Suggestion 1 is look at Powerplant again. Classic mistake is dismissing something after dogging up it once (especially in the cold!). It is undoubtedly one of the most doable 8a's in the Peak, plus it's very good and if in condition, there will be people motivated to go to the Cornice. Suggestion 2: Forget about knee barring the crux. I never understood why people bother with faffing with knee bars when the crux is a really nice move with your feet in the right place and a drop knee. R & H, HFC both have harder cruxes, Free Monster is 7c+ IMO but I think it helps to be tall on the crux?
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Most shorties I know find the R&H move ok, most tallies don't so it might be a good one if you're small?
I tried this again the other week, seeing as I'm 'going well'. I don't think I'll ever do it, I just don't seem to fit.
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STG:
Secret Gudgeon Society, Dominatrix, Body Machine from break
S/MTG: The Prow (maybe full), Stone the Loach and E4/5 lime trad.
MTG: Dolomites in September
M: Unexpected Works session, 3rd day on. Try not to do too much but get sucked in and leave feeling worn out, schoolboy error as I then ...
T: Cancel evening at the Tor as I'm done in. Rest.
W: Physical work all day results in sub-par Works session in the evening.
T: Lawrencefield. Do Great Peter to warm up (stiff start) then partner gets on Billy Whizz and hands me the rope after falling. Not really got my head in the game and wind up sitting on the rope and thrutching my way to the top, felt a bit of a failure really.
F: Rest
S: Can't muster the energy to climb so rest.
S: Tor in the am. Clips are already in Body Machine and the obliging owners don't mind me squeezing redpoints between their goes (thanks Jim and Tom!). Take time warming up and 1st redpoint from break make lots of little mistakes which add up to me falling going over the bulge, 2nd redpoint has less mistakes and I scrabble my way to the top :)
Partner wants more volume so head to Embankment and get back on, and do, Secret Gudgeon Society.
Tired all week so training quality/volume felt poor, but week rescued by yesterday's sends, good day.
This coming weekend is my last for sport climbing till the end of August so trying to arrange getting back up to Kilnsey for Dominatrix.
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Mon- Yoga 45 mins. Starting to get more flexible again which feels good.
Tues- School- foot on campus. Managed 8 reps of 1 min on 2 mins off on medium rungs, failed on last set. Rings and bar work.
Wed - Aerocap in works. Hot. 75 problems up and down in 45 mins.
Thurs- as wednesday but with more skin pain.
Fri- Yoga 45 mins
Sat- Kyloe in, managed 7-8 problems to 6C+ before i gave up due to midge. Worst i have encountered in a long time. Went to Bowden and did 25+ problems upto 7A. Finger not great though.
Sun- School- Foot on campus 8x 1min on 2 min off, felt easy. 8 x 1min on 1 min off, fail on last two sets. rings and bar for 80 mins. Rally good session.
Good week of volume. My improvement curve on foot on campus is just ridiculous. It must be a technique thing not physical, or maybe Barrows aura is rubbing off on me.
Do people think i should add more sets? ie do 3 sets of 8x1x1, increase the time on the board? i.e. 2 x 8 x 90sec x 90 sec or reduce the rest time more 2 x 8 x 1 x 30 sec.
I also managed 6 dips on the rings which is a big improvement.
I now have a week of eating and drinking as out with colleagues and clients 4 nights in a row. Not sure how much training i will fit in.
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STG - Climb outdoors more/do less fishing
MTG - Get some more 7a's done this year/do more fishing
LTG - Stop smoking again. Get below 14 stone again
Mon - Walk to and from work. Pilates.
Tue - Walk to and from work. Lunchtime gym sesh - Deadlifts (pyramid from 40kg up to bodyweight - been a while but felt ok), BO Rows (3x10@20kg), Tricep extensions (3x10@15kg), Bicep curls (3x10@15kg), squatts (3x10@30kg - hard but good to get technique sorted looking to increase weight steadily over the coming weeks)
Wed - Bus. Doms. Lunch time cardio sesh - 5 km on bike/10 minutes and 5 minutes on the rower.
Thurs - Walk. Pilates
Fri - Walk. Rest. Evening fly fishing session. Nice to feel like I'm getting to grips with the dry fly lark.
Sat - weather dictated housework in the morning, then went the pictures, then hooked up with Richie "8b" Hession and soon to be Mrs Hesison at Angel Bay. Mrs Fatneck did pretty well and I managed to retro Bridey's - always a pleasure. Did lots of easier stuff and worked sit start to Bridey's Arete. Managed to get the first move then failed wildly on the next move into the stand - Rich thought it might warrant 7a. Checked guide when i got home, turns out I did it 7 years ago! Keen to go back...
Sun - Father's Day - got spoiled, ate lots of cheese..
Decided to get back into the gym at work this week as climbing is minimal at the moment. Kind of sacked it off a couple of months ago to focus on Pilates but now at the stage with Pilates where I can get through a session and not feel totally broken the next day!
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85.6Kg
M - Back still sore
T - Back not good in the morning, so deliberate whether or not I should be climbing. Make arrangements to head to Badger Cove. Static rope, ladder etc. Drop right foot off for big 3rd move to pocket and this is the key for me latching it. Next move is a flick into an undercut, move feet and get right foot high on a tiny spike for the big throw into the obvious round hole. Fall off move to hole about 3 times. Check out the top on a rope. There are big finishing pockets directly above the hole, but apparently the FA finished going leftwards?
W - Back better after falling onto it lots yesterday evening :-\ See a Podiatrist and get some orthotics.
T - School lunch. Bit lacking in focus. Tried Dawid's 8A on the 30 degree which has a similar move on it to Badger.
F - Eldest child in full itches of Chicken Pox :(
S - P.M. Team Badger Cove, except that we arrive to warm up at Blackwell Dale and it's gopped out and Badger's is similar aspect. Decide instead to see whether Freda's butt is catching the breeze. She is! Warm ups then get stuck into Infinite Suspense. There's more video beta since I tried this a couple of years ago. Dave tries to deadpoint it, I try and get the drop knee in, but it's desperately bunched and I can barely get it on, never mind weight it. But wait, can I stick a knee bar in behind the fin? Seems like the natural thuggy thing to do. Have one go sans knee pad and realise it'll work. Stick a knee pad on and hey presto, next go reach statically to the crimps and finish. Others try this method and it's not unanimous, so not sure whether it's knocked a grade/s off this classic?
S - Back still grumbling.
Not much training this week as was in resting mode for Badger. Rain and seepage isn't too promising for this coming week, plus awaiting youngest child to get the pox and more sh*t nights...
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Any chance of link to vid with kneebar method?
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Most shorties I know find the R&H move ok, most tallies don't so it might be a good one if you're small?
I tried this again the other week, seeing as I'm 'going well'. I don't think I'll ever do it, I just don't seem to fit.
I remember getting back on it just before/after I did Kaabah, thinking I'd just finish up some unfinished business quickly. About 30min later I'd failed to do the move in isolation and given up.
I never understood why people bother with faffing with knee bars when the crux is a really nice move with your feet in the right place and a drop knee.
Because the move probably isn't the crux with a kneebar ;)
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On ones of my best days ever I did Salar ,Out of my Tree and Staminaband but couldn't touch that move on R & H. Shorties move for sure.
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Any chance of link to vid with kneebar method?
No vid, but a longer description would be hand holds as per normal meth, match left foot below right foot on obvious big foothold so that you can bring your right foot up into the scoop above (my left arm is fully locked at this point). Place right foot on white rougher rock in base of scoop and throw right knee behind hand into fin. Dave was struggling to get his knee around hand/arm and reckoned his leg might be too long?, James (Highrepute?) could get it in but trapped his hand a few times and didn't feel solid on it so despatched using drop knee meth (he's short).
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Most shorties I know find the R&H move ok, most tallies don't so it might be a good one if you're small?
I tried this again the other week, seeing as I'm 'going well'. I don't think I'll ever do it, I just don't seem to fit.
I remember getting back on it just before/after I did Kaabah, thinking I'd just finish up some unfinished business quickly. About 30min later I'd failed to do the move in isolation and given up.
I never understood why people bother with faffing with knee bars when the crux is a really nice move with your feet in the right place and a drop knee.
Because the move probably isn't the crux with a kneebar ;)
Where's the crux then? Can't see how it can be 8a without the crux getting feet over the o/lap as the next bit is not that bad once you have it wired.
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Any chance of link to vid with kneebar method?
No vid, but a longer description would be hand holds as per normal meth, match left foot below right foot on obvious big foothold so that you can bring your right foot up into the scoop above (my left arm is fully locked at this point). Place right foot on white rougher rock in base of scoop and throw right knee behind hand into fin. Dave was struggling to get his knee around hand/arm and reckoned his leg might be too long?, James (Highrepute?) could get it in but trapped his hand a few times and didn't feel solid on it so despatched using drop knee meth (he's short).
You lanky short-shinned motherfuckers make me sick.
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Where's the crux then? Can't see how it can be 8a without the crux getting feet over the o/lap as the next bit is not that bad once you have it wired.
I don't know, I just remember finding that knee move no harder than any of the others. There was a gaston move above where I was closer to falling, but I might just have ballsed the feet up as I was just following instructions as I went ( (8) n all that).
I like the Infinite suspense knowledge, I'd wondered about a knee on that when I had a play last year but couldn't seem to get my RF up nicely to slot it in, will have to have a rematch
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is more power-endurancy than bouldery, even without a kneepad. I thought Freemonster was much harder.
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STG: fix fingers
MTG: 7B in font in autumn/7C in 2015/6 bouldering season
M: easy bouldering session. after reading Make or Break I've realised I need to start gently and progressively loading the injured a2 in crimp position to get it to start healing, so did some very gentle hangs which felt ok.
T. shoulder stability
W. am, did more easy loading of injured finger. feeling good. PM easyish bouldering, got slightly sucked in to trying a problem with a mate which led to a very minor twinge in the finger
T. shoulder stability.
F. more indoor bouldering, no twinges and started trying stuff that was hard enough that I was falling off. A good feeling after two months of easy mileage. Still, the level I'm falling off now is pretty low so it's not saying much.
S. easy crimped loading of finger, increased weight slightly, still feeling ok. also shoulder stuff.
S. indoor session similar to other days. bit of a twinge in the pulley but nothing serious. also did some shoulders
A good week of finger rehab and getting back to something close to normal bouldering, albeit without crimping. Make or Break has changed my approach to finger injury rehab quite a lot. I've realised I need to load the finger a bit, even if it twinges occasionally. Obviously finding the balance there is tough. In the meantime my power club entries are going to be dull as anything because I'm basically swearing off trying anything hard outdoors til the injuries are all fixed.
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Get well soon jwi!
Go and have a look at Marie-Rose, I've been avoiding trying this until I thought I had a fighting chance. Get up to the move up for the first sloper, can't decide wether to lank it or, dink my foot up a bit.
Get your foot up. I found the reds at Cuvier to be nails. So polished! La Suzanne (no.20) is OK though.
STG- Finish film without becoming irretrievably crap at climbing. YYFY :dance1:
New STG is 7a or above on lime before September 18th.
MTG- 100 routes at 24HHH and The Show Me State in September, Wall of Horrors in October.
LTG- 9a at 48.
Didn't climb or train at all until Sunday, when I went to Stanage Plantation (cold wind meant that it was in ideal condition for trad but almost deserted!) with a mate who hadn't climbed for more than a year. Bumbled about completely knackered and not motivated to try hard but did some fun routes and had a laugh.
This week was all about finishing my film. I worked on it 'til 2-3AM every night and got up for work at 7AM every day apart from Friday. It all paid off on Friday night though, when I realised that I might actually have made a quality chuffing video! Makes up for 14 months of putting that ahead of my climbing performance for sure, but now is the time to get back to my climbing. I'm injury free, reasonably fit from the limestone traversing I've been doing and a month of abstinence from chocloate has seen me lose the weight I'd gradually put on. Let's go!
Cornwall this weekend but after that I'm going to get back on pennine lime sport. After watching that cool Personal Limits film I'm psyched for Raven Tor. If anyone on here needs a belay and is willing to help me siege the fuck out of whatever the best entry-level route is (Sardine?) then get in touch!
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My improvement curve on foot on campus is just ridiculous. It must be a technique thing not physical, or maybe Barrows aura is rubbing off on me.
Do people think i should add more sets? ie do 3 sets of 8x1x1, increase the time on the board? i.e. 2 x 8 x 90sec x 90 sec or reduce the rest time more 2 x 8 x 1 x 30 sec.
Kinda depends on your end goals, which would suit the routes you're training for better.
I'm currently doing 60s work on small rungs to train for short, sharp Peak cruxes.
Over summer I'll adjust this to 2 minutes on medium rungs to prepare for PE/Raindogs.
I reckon bringing the rest down to half of the work time is a good aim then making it harder but again depends on which end of the PE spectrum your aims are.
Are you pausing on each hold or just laddering as fast as you can? I make better gains from the former which is much harder and more specific, something like 4-5s on each rung is about right.
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74.5kg! :spank:
STG: OS E3. Double or Quits (by 19th July)
MTG: E5 by end of September. Get flock of ducks in a row to enable trip to Picos, amongst others, this summer.
LTG: Long hard (for me) rock routes in the Alps, Dolomites, Picos and Scotland. 7b+ RP.
M -
T-
W -
T -
F - Shoulder stability stuff
S - DIY (shoulder intensive). Shoulder rehab.
S - Westway - short, easy session
A low week, mentally and physically, but good to get even the most minimal of training done on Sunday. Need to get to work on my general hill fitness and weight in belated preparation for chuffaneering this summer. I finally have a physio. appointment for my hip, so of course this has started to improve in anticipation!
Plan: build up mileage on rock and plastic. Do some kind of exercise every day. One fingerboard session a week.
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/quote]
Kinda depends on your end goals, which would suit the routes you're training for better.
I'm currently doing 60s work on small rungs to train for short, sharp Peak cruxes.
Over summer I'll adjust this to 2 minutes on medium rungs to prepare for PE/Raindogs.
I reckon bringing the rest down to half of the work time is a good aim then making it harder but again depends on which end of the PE spectrum your aims are.
Are you pausing on each hold or just laddering as fast as you can? I make better gains from the former which is much harder and more specific, something like 4-5s on each rung is about right.
[/quote]
Is this correct. If you have to match the duration of exercise to route length people would be doing 5-10 minutes. Even for medium length peak routes it would be 2-3. I thought the correlation between the exercise time and rest time was the important thing.
I am not pausing on olds but not climbing really fast either. Again would this make any difference. I cant see that there is any cross over to climbing and would have thought the object is to get pumped. As long as this is achieved is there any difference if this is gained by going fast or slow. In my mind i dont spend 4-5 seconds holding two holds on a route between moves so would seem as artificial as climbing really fast.
I am not dismissing your points just trying to get my head around what is the best way to go with my training.
Unfortunately dont have a specific goal as only doing this training due to a finger injury preventing me doing much else. I do however have a perverse dream of doing longer routes.
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Gav - what energy system are you training? I'm a bit confused.
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Is this correct. If you have to match the duration of exercise to route length people would be doing 5-10 minutes. Even for medium length peak routes it would be 2-3. I thought the correlation between the exercise time and rest time was the important thing.
You're not really training for the whole route, just the sections between rests. If your blocks are too long you'll struggle to get the volume in that you want. Anacdotally, I've never done more than 1.30 on for my foot-on-campus, but have gone down to rests as short as 10-15s for 1min on and will do the same in future.
I cant see that there is any cross over to climbing and would have thought the object is to get pumped. As long as this is achieved is there any difference if this is gained by going fast or slow. In my mind i dont spend 4-5 seconds holding two holds on a route between moves so would seem as artificial as climbing really fast.
I think it's better with a pause, and you almost certainly will spend 4-8s on each hold on a route when moving feet etc, let along clipping. Onsighting is liable to be even longer. I tend to think that with metabolic stuff (i.e. energy systems stuff) you want to be as specific as possible in terms of length of contractions, hence why I've hung draws up and trailed ropes around down the school before. That said, I don't think it's good to climb circuits at artificial speeds as you'll learn to climb badly, I don't think that's an issue with foot-on-campus though.
If you're not going to use the fitness in the near future then it doesn't matter anyway, to a large extent, because the adaptations from this type of training aren't that long lasting compared to strength or the capacities.
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Just spent 10 minutes trying to type what Alex says.
What Alex says....
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Gav - what energy system are you training? I'm a bit confused.
I have no fucking idea. Reading Alexs training thingy Aerobic power i guess. I have not chosen to do this but am struggling to do much else, cant boulder, cant do normal campus (can a little but needed loads of rest afterwards as finger swells up), cant do hard enough moves to do Ancap so a bit stuck.
Doing Aerocap as well. Still have the idea of doing 8a this year so getting fit will help.
The old fashioned bit of me likes this exercise as it feels like your doing something.
Bit dis heartening to see Alex say adaptations dont last long though.
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I always find finger board the safest when injured
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I always find finger board the safest when injured
See "The old fashioned bit of me likes this exercise as it feels like your doing something."
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STG - lose a bit of weight, get stronger
LTG - do some harder stuff
Good week, all considered
M - lunchtime yoga, felt fairly worked. After kids in bed went to newly discovered spot with eye on getting a new prob done. As I got there it started drizzling and the rock was gopping. Spent an hour or so platforming landing by hefting a few boulders about (aka the SoC workout) and conceiving some beta for a problem and rationalising the safety of it)
T - core, theraband and weights at home. Very light fingerboard session.
W - wall session. Started off doing a half dozen or so routes, then got onto some bouldering, did a few good new probs and repeated some old ones. Was a bit warm and sweaty. Even had a quick campus to see how elbow reacts. 3 hours in total, skin raw, but elbow feels OK.
T - Nothing
F - Returned to new spot. Was very warm and muggy, and midgies were ruthless. Conditions not great, but got on a new prob the first move had spanked me on, got some better foot beta, did first move, and managed to link to top. Only 2 hard moves - 6A maybe. Did some more platforming then got on highball project. Got to good hold near the top twice and bottled, so climbed up and around to suss out topout. Then MTFU and did it next go 6B maybe? Next got to work on diagonal break and managed to get a bit of beta sussed. Hard sequence of 5 moves, maybe 6B, possibly C. And also did a silly arête. All might feel easier in good conditions. Top evening out, and I think I lost a few pounds in blood!
S - swimming in morning with kids , weather good in afternoon, but too blown to climb, so went out on bike for an hour and a half.
S - not much, stuffed face at wagamamma for tea, did some theraband, weights, and a light fingerboard session.
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I always find finger board the safest when injured
See "The old fashioned bit of me likes this exercise as it feels like your doing something."
Do ancap on a fingerboard then. Can produce long-lasting gains, and you will certainly feel like you're doing something.
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Alex,
is the 5s on, 10s off that you mention in the podcast effectively AnCap?
From what I can work out 5x5s hangs x 2 arms = 50s and the 10s rest between reps gives you a 1:2 duty cycle. Or is my logic flawed?
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S - P.M. Team Badger Cove, except that we arrive to warm up at Blackwell Dale and it's gopped out and Badger's is similar aspect. Decide instead to see whether Freda's butt is catching the breeze. She is! Warm ups then get stuck into Infinite Suspense. There's more video beta since I tried this a couple of years ago. Dave tries to deadpoint it, I try and get the drop knee in, but it's desperately bunched and I can barely get it on, never mind weight it. But wait, can I stick a knee bar in behind the fin? Seems like the natural thuggy thing to do. Have one go sans knee pad and realise it'll work. Stick a knee pad on and hey presto, next go reach statically to the crimps and finish. Others try this method and it's not unanimous, so not sure whether it's knocked a grade/s off this classic?
I'm 6ft and did Infinite Suspense the other week with the Egyptian. Given it was originally graded for the deadpoint method (there's a video out there of Polish Dave on it somewhere), I can see how it would be a lower grade now.
It's certainly not in the same Peak lime 7C+ league of Staminahumps / Pump up the Power / Press low right etc.
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I'd suggest Free Monster maybe, only heel in that is a big left foot one and unless you're short the hard bit is fairly short lived and low down. Pumpy at the top but I never fell there once I got through the crux. I though it was easier than Powerplant or Roof Warrior for example which are similar lengths and styles.
(Disclaimer - I don't really like pure boulder routes)
Horses for courses etc. While the moves on Free Monster are probably easier than Roof Warrior there are at least 2 hands off knee bars on Roof Warrior that make it quite friendly for boulderers.
If it's dry it'd probably be a good option (plus apart from one small crimp just before the roof it's a lot more finger friendly that some of the other routes that are being suggested).
If you want an off the wall suggestion for a pseudo-8a, then how about the eatswood Traverse?
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Another week of working late and getting tired...
M Foundry Wave at lunchtime. Pilates in the evening
T Iin the gym at 6:30. Kettlebells and a bit of bagging
W
T. Foundry Wave - lunchtime. Finally "do" the level 3 I've been trying for ages only to fall off the last easy move. Neil said I can have it so that's that.
F. Knackered but force myself to go to the gym to toprope 10 easy routes
S
S Kettlebells and Bulgarian bagging up the garden
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Alex,
is the 5s on, 10s off that you mention in the podcast effectively AnCap?
From what I can work out 5x5s hangs x 2 arms = 50s and the 10s rest between reps gives you a 1:2 duty cycle. Or is my logic flawed?
Long strength and short ancap are pretty similar, so my view is that either will have cross-over to the other. Personally though, I don't think of 5-on-10-off being that ancapy. I'd have said the duty cycle is the main reason why it's not - there's so much rest (climbing something hard like an ancap problem has got to be more like 5:0.5 than 1:2 surely?*). Also I basically rested for full recovery between exercises when I tried that, though obviously that can be changed easy enough. Recently I've been using the Anderson Bros' session (just the session, not the whole plan), which feels pretty ancapy to me. I've done 7-on-3-off x4, then 1.20 rest, repeat etc before too for ancap style hangs, but I think I prefer the Anderson's method.
Right now if I were designing a fingerboard routine it would be a mix of sessions with max 1 arm hangs with a pulley (5s or 10s hangs) plus Anderson Bros sessions (I just made a summer plan, and it has a 6 week block of that planned at the mo).
(*Don't forget, duty cycle within the exercise and the work:rest ratio between exercises aren't the same thing)
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Mon: 40 min trail run & core
Tues: Hangboard - CWP and repeaters on the BM 35 degree slopers; mobility & core
Wed: Hangboard - One arm max hangs and repeaters
Thurs: 30 mins of treadmill intervals. Quite hard.
Fri: Rest
Sat: Bouldering - hoped to finish up my 7C+ mini-project, but it was too warm and I ended up trying an 8A that I'd done years ago when I was strong. Surprised myself by managing to do all the moves quickly and make some decent links. A new winter project, methinks. Did some one arm max hangs when I got home.
Sun: More bouldering - went to my local training boulder and surprised myself, again, by doing 2 7Bs, a 7B+ and 2 7Cs (albeit with shared cruxes) first go. A good day. Finished up with some repeaters on the BM 35 sloper and small edge.
All in all, my climbing seems to be starting to see the benefit of regular training - and I have new motivation in the form of 5 days in Cresc..Christ..anyway, it's granite..
in December #psyche
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(*Don't forget, duty cycle within the exercise and the work:rest ratio between exercises aren't the same thing)
Thanks for replying, this is what I was confusing myself with.
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STG - Trad projects, silly link up Batcave projects
MTG - 8c (and 8A)
LTG - 9a
BHAG - Bruderliebe
M - nothing
T - BM session, not bad but not amazing
W - BM session, much better
T - nothing
F - Evening in the Batcave doing housekeeping type bolting stuff, horrible conditions so no climbing.
S - Frustrating session at the Batcave, arrived just as the sun came round on to the crag to start de-clagging it, then cloud moved in. Tried some climbing but it was bolt to bolt wet sliding nonsense, the worst conditions I've climbed in there, awful. Managed to sort of piece together a sequence for a link up project but conditions meant no chance of actually climbing it. Then Doug had to go early so I did a bit more hanging around housekeeping stuff, and five minutes after he'd gone the conditions were minty, gahhh. Had a play on another link up, started bolting a new line and then headed home tired...
S - was going to have a BM session but instead got a motorbike. Mid life crisis in full effect yields a 125 rice pudding skin puller...
Frustrating sort of week but not awful, no real injuries and still getting a reasonable amount of activity in. All academic as surely a couple of days after my CBT i'll be in a full body cast but tiddley-pom.
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STG: more 7b's if poss
MTG: finish Bullworker at Brean Down after falling off top move 3 times in December
LTG: E6, 8a route, surpass previous best of V7/7a+ bouldering
m: work
t: more work
w:even more work
t: rested as was tired from work
f: partners bday
s: can't remember
s: couple of sets on fingerboard, ran to shop for beer
pretty low key week. been very tired mainly due to three day flooring job working till late every night. knees hurt etc. not going to beat myself up about it. heading out climbing this Sunday so looking forwards to that. still surfing the good vibes from last week to be honest!!
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Thanks everyone for the comments regarding suitable 8a's. I'll definintely take the comments on board. Haven't managed to get a partner for tonight so might check out the boulder starts to rattle & hump (I've tried this before whilst a bit tired) and hot fun closing.
Alex, whilst you're helping everyone out with theory. You mention in your ebook that you cycle phases of endurance training but you mentioned that you continue strength training throughout all cycles. Does strength training not also need to be cycled to prevent injury? I'm curious because I've just started a Randall training plan and whilst we identified that I'm very weak for the grade, he's not given me any finger strength activities to do. Granted, he's aware that i'm recovering from a pulley niggle but if what you're saying is true then I see no reason why I couldn't be working my open-hand strength. Just curious of your opinion if you wouldn't mind, of course I can ask Tom too. Cheers.
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If you have two masters you have to lie to one.
Zen shit that
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Alex, whilst you're helping everyone out with theory. You mention in your ebook that you cycle phases of endurance training but you mentioned that you continue strength training throughout all cycles. Does strength training not also need to be cycled to prevent injury? I'm curious because I've just started a Randall training plan and whilst we identified that I'm very weak for the grade, he's not given me any finger strength activities to do. Granted, he's aware that i'm recovering from a pulley niggle but if what you're saying is true then I see no reason why I couldn't be working my open-hand strength. Just curious of your opinion if you wouldn't mind, of course I can ask Tom too. Cheers.
Maybe that's why I spend so much time injured? :lol:
The only time I'm not doing some sort of strength training (bouldering/fingerboarding/whatever) is when I'm on a trip or resting from a trip. Bear in mind that strength is almost invariably the weak link in the chain for me; given that - from what I've read - you're basically a boulderer this is probably not the case for you. Forget about arbitrary strength tests and just think about outdoor stuff - are you better at short hard move things or fitness orientated things (PE/stam routes)? Given the style of 8a you're asking for I presume it's the former, hence why Tom will probably have you doing lots of stuff to level that out somewhat. If it's not the former, then sack off HFC and R&H and just go do crucifixion or something as it's likely to feel about 30 grades easier than the short ones if you're an enduro climber.
Anyway, Tom will no doubt have his reasons for what he's given you, whether it's what I would get you to do or not is another matter; I suspect that if Tom and I both made plans for me to do then mine would err more towards strength work and away from energy systems work compared to what he'd write for me. Just because we agree on a lot of training stuff doesn't mean we'd agree on everything... [Not that I've got him to write me a plan, so I may be presuming wrongly there]
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Chain - if you're paying a coach then just trust them and get on with what they've told you to do. If you start doing a Simon Lee you're wasting your money.
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:agree: If you don't like something about the plan then probably better to ask Tom why it's like that than to ask me, then he can either set your mind at ease or you can negotiate a change in the plan or something.
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STG- O/S F7a, O/S Brit6a
MTG- become a real E4 climber anywhere any rock
LTG- Astroman and Romantic warrior
Not posted for ages.
Continuing to try to become someone that trains, let alone train well.
Despite work really stopping any form of climbing I have O/S my first E4 6a pitch! P4 of Voyage of the Beagle on Creag an dubh loch and I'm :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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Thanks for the reply Alex.
I've been climbing 5.5 years and all my indoor climbing has been bouldering (with the odd bit of PE on the circuit board during route season) and I've route climbed on short vert/slightly off vert limestone for routes (Cheddar gorge, ban-y-gor) during the summer except last year where I skipped routes, hence my endurance is "bad for a boudlerer". I have no idea if I'm naturally good at shorter routes or if that's what I prefer as that's what I've always done. I'm definitely not strong in my fingers. I somehow find bouldering up to 7C ok but I don't know how I put it out of the bag, technique or something?! Tom said my shoulders are strong and I've climbed a lot of compression/sloper problems I suppose.
In all sports I've done over the years I've always been more into more short/powerful roles than endurance (100m sprint, long jump, high jump, striker in football, etc). I used to play football on wing initially (fast runner) and I'd have no endurance until the end of the season!
I'm up for training other energy systems though, perhaps I'll be ok at endurance stuff but I have a goal of climbing 8a before my 30th (mid-August) and I'm just trying to pick one that I'll realistically be able to climb by then, I haven't really got much time to get my endurance on par. Tom's trying to sort that out but looking at the plan I'm not going to be in shape until the start of August and that doesn't give me long to try and RP a more endurancy 8a
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Chain - if you're paying a coach then just trust them and get on with what they've told you to do. If you start doing a Simon Lee you're wasting your money.
Shark has paid for a coach and then not followed the plan?
I'm definitely following the plan at the moment, i'm just not very good at following orders without knowing the reason why. I might get in touch with Tom and ask for a summary of what the plan is doing just to put my mind at ease. I think with a history of pulley injuries, he's trying to get me doing high volume of lower intensity stuff I suspect.
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If you find 7C ok then your fingers are more than strong enough to climb 8as.
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I'm curious because I've just started a Randall training plan and whilst we identified that I'm very weak for the grade, he's not given me any finger strength activities to do.
If you have anaerobic stuff bear in mind you'll probably get pretty good strength gains for that too, particularly if you've not done much of that kind of thing before. In my first year with Tom I had loads of anaerobic work with fairly minimal fingerboarding and went from 1 sieged 7B+ to having done 7 7Cs plus plenty of 7B/+ including a couple of 7Cs in a session (on grit though!) within a year.
Regarding the 8a thing, unless you're super-strong you are a lot more likely to succeed by focusing on a longer one. There's basically three flavours of route in the peak, short power tests (e.g. Tor RHS), medium power endurance tests (cornices) or a limited number of aerobic stamina routes (Prow etc.). I often fail to do the moves anywhere near my RP grade in cat. 1 despite getting on fine with the other 2 types. I'm not even a plodder! If you're training with Tom you'll be training energy systems pretty hard anyway so a PE or enduro route will be a good way to see your progression.
One last possible 8a that doesn't fit into any of my nice categories, The Spider. Long but with a very distinct bouldery crux. I've not been on it but a mate did it in a session this year having only really bouldered all winter and said it all came down to the crux rather than stamina. Take this with a pinch of salt but it may be an option and is generally dry.
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If you find 7C ok then your fingers are more than strong enough to climb 8as.
That's the weird thing though, my fingers are really weak. I don't know how I get up hard boulders, I've climbed lots since I've started, so technique is decent but that's about it. I find it easy to try hard too, just refuse to give up type of thing.
If you have anaerobic stuff bear in mind you'll probably get pretty good strength gains for that too, particularly if you've not done much of that kind of thing before. In my first year with Tom I had loads of anaerobic work with fairly minimal fingerboarding and went from 1 sieged 7B+ to having done 7 7Cs plus plenty of 7B/+ including a couple of 7Cs in a session (on grit though!) within a year.
Thanks for the reply Alister, it's good to get some good feedback regarding Tom's training as I've heard one story of it not working recently and someone else not sounding overly positive.
There's not an awful lot of anaerobic stuff in my 12 week plan, only 3 weeks of it prior to my birthday and only 1 training unit per week. Lots of AeroCap and AeroPow though.
I've sent Tom and email with lots of questions though, so hopefully he can clear things up. I'm struggling a bit at the moment as I'm used to trying hard all the time and at the moment most of the week is high volume but mid-low intensity. Don't get me wrong, I'm knackered after a week of training but I'm not doing much climbing, lots of dangling from fingers with stop watches!
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Chain - if you're paying a coach then just trust them and get on with what they've told you to do. If you start doing a Simon Lee you're wasting your money.
Shark has paid for a coach and then not followed the plan?
:shrug:
Tom Randall did set me a plan which I followed a few winters ago but it didn't yield the results I was after.
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Do you do hard fingery boulders or just grit thugging? I could do a number of grit 7Cs when I could barely climb 7A+ at places like Rubicon. The latter is what's relevant when it comes to sport climbing.
it's good to get some good feedback regarding Tom's training as I've heard one story of it not working recently and someone else not sounding overly positive.
Without Tom's knowledge & advice I wouldn't have climbed Era Vella. How's that for feedback ;) I'm intrigued now - who said it "didn't work" and how long did they work with him for? Finding out what works for you isn't an overnight thing, it's a never ending process, whether it's you experimenting on and analysing yourself, or a coach doing it on/for you.
If you're dangling and not climbing I suspect that that's to get your finger fixed, though again I'm reverse engineering logic from a position of having about 2% of the info.
Tom Randall did set me a plan which I followed a few winters ago but it didn't yield the results I was after.
Just out of interest, would you say that you followed the plan that we made up over this winter?
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Fuck me I'm glad I'm not tom, within 5 posts that kind of talk could cost someone their chosen career! If you're unhappy with what you're getting, yet have no idea why you're getting it, you'd do well to speak to your coach first without spraying nonsense all over the net.
And ffs stop saying the problems you're doing at the works are 7b and 7b+ when they're about 6c maybe + and 7a respectively, I've done them in trainers, no I haven't Brian. This may be where you're going wrong grade wise.
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Tom Randall did set me a plan which I followed a few winters ago but it didn't yield the results I was after.
Just out of interest, would you say that you followed the plan that we made up over this winter?
You know the answer to that (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,6407.msg481105.html#msg481105)
I did follow Tom's programme closely. I didn't peak when I was meant to and although I climbed well on long routes at the Tor later in the year I didn't get the early season strength gains I needed for the Oak which was the goal.
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Yeah, for me I think being coached by Tom has worked out really well. Summer of 2013 before starting training with Tom I was trying Powerplant. Probably had about 7 sessions, got very close but always feeling super powered out and basically like it was the living end. Went back as soon as it was dry in 2014 after about 8 months of following Tom's plan, put the clips in, it felt steady and then just redpointed it first go without ever feeling like I was going to fall off. Went on to tick more or less everything I wanted to that summer and often quicker than I'd expected. Seemed to have continued on a more or less linear upwards trajectory since, nothing ground-shattering but then I'm a distinctly average climber. Oh also I can finally recover on jugs on properly steep stuff now, makes you feel like a real sport climber when you go to Europe!
I would say this though, be very careful with your total load. I assume you're on 3 weeks on 1 week off like I am. Generally week 1 feels pretty piss and there's often the temptation to try and sneak more volume in (cheeky extra bouldering pre-training at the wall etc.) This is the path to ruin. I will always find by week 3 I'm feeling pretty beat up without doing any extra stuff (this years base over winter/spring was 4 training sessions, 1 climbing) and really need the rest. The point is that the training load has to be sustainable, as opposed to what most of us do in our earlier self-coached years whereby we thrash ourselves and then end up in a massive over-training hole of poor recovery and performance.
A bit of discipline goes a long way and make sure that your training to climbing ratio is enough to actually keep you happy (no good being fit but unmotivated), for this reason we cut my training to 2/3 sessions over the summer each year so I can actually put the training into practice!
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You know the answer to that
Just wanted to check we were on the same wavelength.
I think I usually manage to peak right for about 75% of my trips. I then have slightly inexplicable peaks and dips around other times too - you can try to get your body to do what you want, but it doesn't always obey.
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I don't think the fingerboarding is because of my finger, I assume it's his preferred method to train AeroCap. My finger has been a bit tweaky lately but it's not that bad. One of the A2 injuries is 5 months old and the other A2 was a bit tweaky whilst I was compensating for the other A2 but has been fine for 3 weeks now.
My 7C's are a mixture I suppose, some crimpy stuff on granite (magic wood, la pedriza, Ailefroide), some slopey stuff (Font, Targasonne). I've only done one peak 7C actually and I've technically not done it because I didn't top out (brass monkeys).
I've not tried much peak lime yet but have done zippy's trav at crag x, a bigger tail, a bigger splash direct, would have done the press if it wasn't for splitting a tip (fell off 3 times trying to match the jug), weedkiller trav, some of the other low 7's at tor. I definitely feel closer to my limit on fingery limestone than I do on other rocktypes when I can abuse my arm/shoulder strength more.
Gareth (peak info) apparently didn't get the results he would have liked from his plan, Andy Morris without saying the words didn't seem too positive about how his training went but appreciate he's had finger issues. I'm not judging Tom on that though, there's also lots of high profile cases (like yourself) where he's done a great job. I'm just trying to make sure that if i'm sacrificing all this time and effort (and not climbing) that I'm on the right path as I'm very aware that my fingers are extremely weak for the grade and when I've read some of your stuff (Alex) and seen the volume of finger strength work you've been doing along-side the endurance stuff, I want to make sure that I shouldn't be doing the same sort of thing.
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You know the answer to that
Just wanted to check we were on the same wavelength.
I think I usually manage to peak right for about 75% of my trips. I then have slightly inexplicable peaks and dips around other times too - you can try to get your body to do what you want, but it doesn't always obey.
I know and I'm not blaming Tom. Everyone reacts differently and maybe mine was a delayed reaction though I do think the plan should have focussed on strength more given my bouldering weakness compared to redpoint grade though that probably puts me in a smallish minority these days.
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I don't think the fingerboarding is because of my finger, I assume it's his preferred method to train AeroCap. My finger has been a bit tweaky lately but it's not that bad. One of the A2 injuries is 5 months old and the other A2 was a bit tweaky whilst I was compensating for the other A2 but has been fine for 3 weeks now.
My 7C's are a mixture I suppose, some crimpy stuff on granite (magic wood, la pedriza, Ailefroide), some slopey stuff (Font, Targasonne). I've only done one peak 7C actually and I've technically not done it because I didn't top out (brass monkeys).
I've not tried much peak lime yet but have done zippy's trav at crag x, a bigger tail, a bigger splash direct, would have done the press if it wasn't for splitting a tip (fell off 3 times trying to match the jug), weedkiller trav, some of the other low 7's at tor. I definitely feel closer to my limit on fingery limestone than I do on other rocktypes when I can abuse my arm/shoulder strength more.
Gareth (peak info) apparently didn't get the results he would have liked from his plan, Andy Morris without saying the words didn't seem too positive about how his training went but appreciate he's had finger issues. I'm not judging Tom on that though, there's also lots of high profile cases (like yourself) where he's done a great job. I'm just trying to make sure that if i'm sacrificing all this time and effort (and not climbing) that I'm on the right path as I'm very aware that my fingers are extremely weak for the grade and when I've read some of your stuff (Alex) and seen the volume of finger strength work you've been doing along-side the endurance stuff, I want to make sure that I shouldn't be doing the same sort of thing.
Get Ben's Roof done (with the kneebar after the start), perfect test of AnCap and probably the most amenable of the higher 7s at the Tor. I don't really get this "didn't get the results" thing. How do people know that their goals weren't just unrealistic?
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Fuck me I'm glad I'm not tom, within 5 posts that kind of talk could cost someone their chosen career! If you're unhappy with what you're getting, yet have no idea why you're getting it, you'd do well to speak to your coach first without spraying nonsense all over the net.
And ffs stop saying the problems you're doing at the works are 7b and 7b+ when they're about 6c maybe + and 7a respectively, I've done them in trainers, no I haven't Brian. This may be where you're going wrong grade wise.
I think you're overreacting a bit there dense. I've not said anything negative about Tom's training? I wouldn't have chosen him out of the vast amount of others in Sheffield if I didn't think he was the man for the job but I don't see why I can't ask others questions on the fitclub thread.
I think I'm fully capable of grading boulder problems relative to what they would get graded outside (regardless of what they'd get as an indoor grade). Perhaps we can meet at the works tonight so you could school me on grading (i've only climbed 150+ boulder problems between 7A and 7C afterall, perhaps I've missed something).
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I don't think the fingerboarding is because of my finger, I assume it's his preferred method to train AeroCap
Gareth (peak info) apparently didn't get the results he would have liked from his plan, Andy Morris without saying the words didn't seem too positive about how his training went but appreciate he's had finger issues. I'm not judging Tom on that though, there's also lots of high profile cases (like yourself) where he's done a great job. I'm just trying to make sure that if i'm sacrificing all this time and effort (and not climbing) that I'm on the right path as I'm very aware that my fingers are extremely weak for the grade and when I've read some of your stuff (Alex) and seen the volume of finger strength work you've been doing along-side the endurance stuff, I want to make sure that I shouldn't be doing the same sort of thing.
I certainly didn't have any fingerboard aerocap prior to injuring my finger.
I think you're rather putting words into my mouth there, which I'm not 100% convinced about - if you weren't sure you could have asked. I've not had any opportunity yet to see the benefits in action, because I've missed out on a summer peak due to having bust my finger. That's been motivationally pretty tough, without a doubt, but that's the nature of combining periodization with ill timed finger injuries. I've possibly done more during rehab by virtue of being on a plan than I woukd have done otherwise but I've never had as long term abfinger injury before so that's all hypothetical.
In order to stop all the phantom guesswork about your weak fingers it might help to share the stats. There seem to be a few people here at similar grades so you might be able to get a sample to.compare against.
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I don't think the fingerboarding is because of my finger, I assume it's his preferred method to train AeroCap.
Again, better to ask him, but I doubt it. Why do you assume that? I know a bunch people people who train with Tom, I've never seen any of them doing aero cap on a fingerboard that I can think of (unless they're stuck in the middle of nowhere with only a fingerboard) so I don't think it's a default thing.
Andy's not seemed down on his training when I've chatted to him, though I've not spoken to him for a while. [Edit - he replied] Gareth I don't know, but "not getting the results you'd like" doesn't really mean anything without knowing what the results he'd like were, how long they trained together etc. This shit aint magic, it takes time. [EDIT: what Alistair said too]
Personally, if I were to work with a coach I'd feel like I needed to give them a couple of years before judging the results fully as it'll take them time to get to know how you respond. This is partly why I don't use a coach.
Anyway, you're clearly not happy with the plan so talk to Tom about it.
P.s. How can you fall off the press trying to match the jug? It's a 1a move. Literally, in that it's a shake out. Were you climbing footless? This will make you think I'm a dick, but everyone knows I'm a dick so I'll say it anyway: I'm beginning to get the impression that things you say on the net should be taken with a pinch of salt. No offence.
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I'm not overly happy with the fact that people think I'm putting Tom's training methods down, I'm just trying to make sure I understand where he's going with it. Initially I thought I could get some insight on one aspect from a comment from Alex (which I did) but then it escalated quickly from there.
I apologise if I got the wrong vibe from you Andy and I never said that you commented negatively on your training plan, just that I got the vibe that you weren't where you wanted to be but as I mentioned, I knew you were suffering from a finger injury that stopped things a bit.
Alex, no problem. If you get the impression I'm making things up, perhaps others are as well. What is it in particular that sounds unlikely? Haydn and Seb were there when I fucked up the match several times on the press. Seb was with me when I did zippy's trav recently, Mark20 was spotting when I did weedkiller traverse, etc, etc. I would never lie about anything I've done on rock, what would be the point? It's not like I'm climbing at the cutting edge or anything. :shrug:
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I don't think the fingerboarding is because of my finger, I assume it's his preferred method to train AeroCap.
Again, better to ask him, but I doubt it. Why do you assume that? I know a bunch people people who train with Tom, I've never seen any of them doing aero cap on a fingerboard that I can think of (unless they're stuck in the middle of nowhere with only a fingerboard) so I don't think it's a default thing.
Yeah, only person I know who's done fingerboard AeroCap was my other half when her leg was still too broken to climb. Worth saying actually that Tom managed to write her a broken-leg compatible plan and she managed to make pretty impressive gains throughout that whole ordeal despite it being many, many months before she could climb properly again. All kinds of stopwatch shenanigans on fingerboards and pullup bars but despite being pretty abstract from climbing it seemed to work.
Equally though, you climb at the Works, we climb at the Foundry. We do a lot of our AeroCap and AeroPow on the roped walls (plus bits on the woody) which isn't really an option at the Works so perhaps that's a reason too. Basically, just ask him, he's always had a good answer for any of my questions. One of the things I like about Tom is he actually seems to understand the relevant sports science rather than just trotting out things that have worked for him personally like some coaches. Also, things like the lactate curve and the finger strength benchmarking are about as much science as it's possible to apply to something as woolly as climbing performance which appeals to the scientist in me.
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Yeah, only person I know who's done fingerboard AeroCap was my other half when her leg was still too broken to climb.
That's interesting to read, it never occurred to me that he was changing the way I trained those things because of my finger. There should be a Randall forum where everyone getting trained by him can discuss the various ways they're being trained.
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Alex, no problem. If you get the impression I'm making things up, perhaps others are as well. What is it in particular that sounds unlikely? Haydn and Seb were there when I fucked up the match several times on the press. Seb was with me when I did zippy's trav recently, Mark20 was spotting when I did weedkiller traverse, etc, etc. I would never lie about anything I've done on rock, what would be the point? It's not like I'm climbing at the cutting edge or anything. :shrug:
You weren't being accused of fibbing, just of being crap.
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You weren't being accused of fibbing, just of being crap.
Yeh, I got the bit about being crap, I deserve that for dropping the match on the press (several times in a row) but my understanding of the idiom 'take with a pinch of salt' is that there is some doubt of the validity of someones comment.
I assumed he meant regarding my climbing as the comment came after my failure on the press but if it's in general, then I suppose I should take more time over how I word my posts as it seems somewhere down the line some people have assumed I'm bad mouthing Tom and that's not the case at all.
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Haha, I'm not saying you're lying about doing things, just that the vibe I get is that what you write on the net should be treated with a pinch of salt... Don't worry, it's better than the vibe most people get off 3-9 on the net which is that he should be kicked in the balls really fukcin' hard.
I genuinely don't believe it's possible to fall off matching the jug 3 times. It's literally a rest. Literally, not modern literally, but actually literally. Falling off getting/holding the jug yes, but then that's probably the crux of the problem.
"I never said you commented negatively on your training plan" ..... "Andy Morris without saying the words didn't seem too positive about how his training went" - whilst you'd be fine in a court of law, you used it to infer that exact point.
"I somehow find bouldering up to 7C ok" but sounds like you've not done one since being in Shef?
What dense was saying about shit at the works. Now I now dense is a dumbass, and usually unintelligible, but it's just a general vibe I'm getting...
"I don't think the fingerboarding is because of my finger, I assume it's his preferred method to train AeroCap" - if I didn't already know Tom, and read that, and placed weight on it, I'd assume that his training was totally wack. That's why better not to place too much weight on it.
Anyway, I'm just being a dick, don't worry about it. See you at the tor tonight if you're there.
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:agree: with what Alex said about your inference - Tom uses Ukb and I'm sure he would probably have drawn exactly the inference Alex pointed out from your namecheck of me.
If I wasn't a lurker (and Alex hadn't chipped in) then the impression would not have been the one I'd have wanted to give.
Anyway this is very :offtopic:
In terms of your fingers, are you sure you're being.told you have "weak for 8a" fingers rather than "weak for 7C fingers". Given Tom's assumed level of "weak for the grade" there's likely to be a world.of difference between the two - in Tom's world 8a route climbers can be, well, pretty dammed weak compared with.your average boulderer...
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No worries, I don't mind people getting pissed off at me for saying things I meant to say it's just annoying when I've given the wrong impression and people are getting pissed off about things I didn't mean. Using Andy as an example was, in hindsight, a bad idea as overall climbing pysche in general seems fairly low from his comments on fitclub/facebook mainly linked to finger injury stuff I guess.
True I haven't climbed a 7C since I've been in Sheffield. I was feeling really strong when I first moved here and then one of my A2's went pop which has made climbing hard over the winter difficult. I've climbed a fair few things up to 7B+ (if I dare take 7B+ for Dick Williams) but acknowledged, I wouldn't claim to have an accurate gauge on 7C as a grade at the moment.
(aimed more at dense) 7B/+ I feel more confident on commenting on. I only included grading at the works on my training log so I can gauge the difficulty of the session when looking back, saying I climbed a black on the comp wall is pretty useless. OK, the wasp on the left side of the comp wall may well be easier than 7B, I think I said I was tired when I did it and that it took me a while to figure out the beta for the hard move. The black I said was 7B/+ I was just going by how hard it felt compared to the pink to the left of it and that's easily 7A+ and I did it much faster than the black. Have you really climbed them? Hard to tell from your comment.
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I used to go to the works a fair bit, and I never once saw Dense pull on. I always assumed he went there just to mope around?
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Good to hear your perspective Andy. I thought I was coming across more as a newbie to training and someone unsure of how training works in general, more than not being happy with Tom's plan, so I messed up there somewhere.
The main point is that I haven't taken the time to understand any of the theory, I've just gone to Tom's for an assessment and got him to give me a plan when I really should have got some more background info off of him. I've sent him a fairly long email now and I'm sure he'll sort it out.
I'm assuming he meant weak for 7C then 8a but then again, he was testing me quite open-handed and I'm very weak in that grip (he had not choice, I'm too injured to do max strength tests in a crimped position).
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Oh and probably won't see you at the tor. I had a text from Tom this morning telling me off for picking such fingery routes to try when my dodgy(ish) finger. Think I'm going to have to wait until I can get someone to go to the cornice or something. Might still go and try Kudos though as I don't think it's overly finger. Worst case I'll go and try moffattrocity or something.
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Yes I have done them, and I have done them in my trainers ;)
There you go again, you've been advised not to do something fingery so you're going to try kudos!!! It appears that you don't listen. I'm not interested I couldn't give a flying fuck what you do it's no skin off my nose but you do appear to be one of them people that asks for advice or whatever but you've already made your mind up. That's what weak Alex is referring to as well
I don't go to the works at night, it affects my chest I'm afraid.
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Oh and probably won't see you at the tor. I had a text from Tom this morning telling me off for picking such fingery routes to try when my dodgy(ish) finger. Think I'm going to have to wait until I can get someone to go to the cornice or something. Might still go and try Kudos though as I don't think it's overly finger. Worst case I'll go and try moffattrocity or something.
Roof warrior is easy at 8a and not very crimpy if I remember correctly?
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Or you could go to Kilnsey do something there? The Bulge, Subculture, The Thumb, Urgent Action, Above the Thumb are all not very crimpy. I certainly had a bad finger when I did the bulge and the Thumb and had no probs. Also they're better than their peak equivalents. For someone who's a good boulderer, subculture should be a breeze.
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Good to hear your perspective Andy. I thought I was coming across more as a newbie to training and someone unsure of how training works in general, more than not being happy with Tom's plan, so I messed up there somewhere.
The main point is that I haven't taken the time to understand any of the theory, I've just gone to Tom's for an assessment and got him to give me a plan when I really should have got some more background info off of him. I've sent him a fairly long email now and I'm sure he'll sort it out.
I'm assuming he meant weak for 7C then 8a but then again, he was testing me quite open-handed and I'm very weak in that grip (he had not choice, I'm too injured to do max strength tests in a crimped position).
Worth checking. If you went there with a stg of 8a in 3 months then you might well be being measured against 8a benchmarks and being.given a crash fitness programme as a result - grip type aside I find it very easy to believe that you'd be very strong and totally.unfit as measured against.Tom's benchmarks, especially since.I know I was a less.extreme.version of that diagnosis...
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Don't worry, it's better than the vibe most people get off 3-9 on the net which is that he should be kicked in the balls really fukcin' hard.
He's only given handy info on here to me! Cheers ThreeNine. Whilst I'd love to have a Kilnset project, I don't want to get into something quite that far away at the moment. Trying to keep the stress of a distant project off until I've hit the 8a before 30 target!
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Worth checking. If you went there with a stg of 8a in 3 months then you might well be being measured against 8a benchmarks and being.given a crash fitness programme as a result - grip type aside I find it very easy to believe that you'd be very strong and totally.unfit as measured against.Tom's benchmarks, especially since.I know I was a less.extreme.version of that diagnosis...
Cheers Andy, I've been in touch so I'll wait and see what he comes back with.
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Don't worry, it's better than the vibe most people get off 3-9 on the net which is that he should be kicked in the balls really fukcin' hard.
He's only given handy info on here to me! Cheers ThreeNine. Whilst I'd love to have a Kilnset project, I don't want to get into something quite that far away at the moment. Trying to keep the stress of a distant project off until I've hit the 8a before 30 target!
If u can get belays, then http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=70517 is a good bet. Fun, powerful climbing on big holds, and dont think it gets wet. Both Joble and Jordan thought it was good (not just me). Shouldnt hurt your fingers anyway. No very hard moves if you are good with your heels and a nice feet first bit at the end.
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Oh and probably won't see you at the tor. I had a text from Tom this morning telling me off for picking such fingery routes to try when my dodgy(ish) finger. Think I'm going to have to wait until I can get someone to go to the cornice or something. Might still go and try Kudos though as I don't think it's overly finger. Worst case I'll go and try moffattrocity or something.
Roof warrior is easy at 8a and not very crimpy if I remember correctly?
And dry enough to start working by the looks of it. Disclaimer: could crap out again quite easily before august.
Powerplant looks fecking filthy though, you ( cha1n) can't give up on it after one burn in that state, get back there with a brush.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
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A tangent to the "coaching" question thread.
It's been discussed on here before, but worth mentioning again. The reason for going to a coach is that what you're doing isn't getting you where you want to go. There could be a hundered different reasons for this, from motivation to doing the wrong thing. Sometimes a coach doesn't have an answer for you, sometimes people don't want to hear the answer. Pretty much every single time a newish climber asks me about training, I see the second thing happen. Most people don't like to change, and they are doing their current "training" because they like it. When you're asked to do something you don't like, it's hard to make yourself embrace it. This is where I see most people stagnate. Barrows is an endurance wad. I seriously doubt he "likes" fingerboarding, but he LOVES the results and hence has grown to 100% embrace it. I dislike campusing, but I 100% embrace it as I know without any hesitation it helps my climbing.
Chain-you're looking for validation that Tom's training is the right general thing for you. Tom has a generally excelent reputation as a coach. He's gotten backing from the top guys on here that he knows his shit. Have faith. You may not like the training, and that's ok. You may not understand why, and that's also OK. How bad do you wnat that 8a? Bad enough to suck it up and do what's being asked?
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..., sometimes people don't want to hear the answer. Pretty much every single time a newish climber asks me about training, I see the second thing happen.
this.
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I seriously doubt he "likes" fingerboarding
You are wrong there, you have no idea how sad some people are.
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Are you sure?
Barrows: If you were to quit climbing, would you continue fingerboarding?
The internet, FB, instagram, etc are full of sad people. I'm even related to several...
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Good post Sas. :)
I love foot on campusing... I even got quite good at it but it didn't help me climb at all well. I'm a bit hooked on the 'fuck me, that was an effort' feeling it gives. It's a bit rubbish that I've done very little since I saw John Kettle but the priority is to work on the things he picked me up on. I really miss it some weeks.
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Chain-you're looking for validation that Tom's training is the right general thing for you. Tom has a generally excelent reputation as a coach. He's gotten backing from the top guys on here that he knows his shit. Have faith. You may not like the training, and that's ok. You may not understand why, and that's also OK. How bad do you wnat that 8a? Bad enough to suck it up and do what's being asked?
To be fair, this all started from an innocent question where I enquired about Barrows' strength training regime during his endurance phases and all got a bit out of hand.
I'd lying if I said I wasn't a bit curious as to why Tom hadn't given me any strength training to do during my first 12 week block but I certainly didn't think it'd end the way it did. I had a look into a lot of coaches in the Sheffield area before asking Tom and he certainly seems like the best and I like his scientific approach.
I suppose I wanted to put my mind at ease that him not giving me any strength training was perfectly legitimate in my situation and not that he'd got the wrong end of the stick with what I was aiming for. In retrospect, I should have just emailed him, but to be fair, I thought it'd be a low key back and forth between Alex and I for a few posts and that would be the end of it. It didn't occur to me that there'd be a bunch of his clients/ex-client able to wade into the comments.
After discussing some things with some others on his training regime, I think it's just the case that Tom is looking at the bigger picture and my history of finger injuries and trying to establish a good base before trying to get too hardcore. I've requested some clarification of some points, so I assume he'll clear things up when he gets a chance to reply. I'm certainly willing to put the time and effort in, I've been following the plan so far and whilst it's hard because I know nothing about the theory and it's hard to imagine how doing tonnes of easy climbing is going to make me climb harder, I know at the same time that as you put it, he knows his shit and he must have me doing it for a reason. I will say that it's hard to follow a plan when it seems counter-intuitive and you have no idea why you're doing half the stuff. I've learned my lesson though, I've just going to follow it through as planned and hope the expert knows what he's doing!
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Or you could go to Kilnsey do something there? The Bulge, Subculture, The Thumb, Urgent Action, Above the Thumb are all not very crimpy. I certainly had a bad finger when I did the bulge and the Thumb and had no probs. Also they're better than their peak equivalents. For someone who's a good boulderer, subculture should be a breeze.
None of then should feel "crimpy" to a 7C climber - the boulderyest of them (Bulge?) is at most a 6C+ish boulder whilst feeling a bit pumped from a f7b+ (the boulderyest 7c+/8a I have done in Yorkshire is probably Baboo at Malham; Complete Control, if that is the same as over the Thumb, was pretty easy - but you would have to pretty familiar with Wysiwyg). That said, bouldering strength is not route strength. For me, Subculture was power stamina rather than boulder power: hard start, where being a better boulderer would help, but the crux was one of those stop-watch jobs: 60s to the rest-jug, speed not strength the key. Urgent Actiion - again, was a question of milking the rests,one the short sections between were worked.
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It seemed reasonably innocent to me as well when it first started. I thought you were pretty clear that you were looking for help understanding the program/concepts so that you could trust/motivate better, rather than questioning Tom's program, but I can also see how it could be seen that way. As I said before, and JWI seconded - most people new to training struggle to hear what's being said if it doesn't fit their expectation.
My hope was to basically compress everything down into a simple place of - Have faith. AFAIK-He's one of the best coaches around.
Now, to help understand the pattern of what I understand he's got you doing, think of it this way. You've got roughly 8-10 weeks till performance deadline. You're not going to make miraculous jumps in strength in that window. However, if you can build up the finger tolerance while also building a bit of fitness for 3-5 weeks, before moving into a bit more recruitment type FBing for a few weeks, you're less likely to tweak a finger which would ruin the whole thing. Plus if you've built up a bit more work capacity in the first 3-4 weeks, you can both maintain the fitness and do a bit of strength in the next 3-5 week period, which would set up up for a mini peak in August for the goal route.
I don't know what his plan is, but as long as you were clear on goals and had a good strength/weakness assessment, I'd guess it's something along these lines.
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most people new to training struggle to hear what's being said if it doesn't fit their expectation.
Then you get to the moderate stage of better than most, but still a punter. When this happens you are writing everything down as if though it is gold.
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as long as you were clear on goals
"I want to do an 8a".
What could possibly be unclear about that, they're all the same, right?
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They're all the same number of points on the official Rock Climbing League TableTM.
Cha1n - sticking with whatever plan you've got is the hardest part and the key to training/self-coaching. You might or might not do an 8a in August, but either way you'll have gained valuable knowledge if you stick it out with a sensible plan.
If you deviate from a training plan and try short-term experiments based on how you 'feel' (i.e. usually nonobjective short-term feedback) and then do an 8a you'll have learned less to take forward than if you'd stuck with the plan and found yourself falling short.
I'm no coach but I imagine one of the hardest parts of being one is not letting clients day-to-day subjectivity get in the way of seeing through a long-term plan which you know will probably give benefits provided the client sees it through - a bit like physio rehab exercises.
edit: that isn't to say I don't think you should analyze and modify, just the scale is long-term for improvement.
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Anyhoo ...
M - early morning session at Harmers with Will, who just scampers up everything in depressing useful fashion. Get even closer to figuring out the start of my project, which Will can simply reach past. Getting slightly frustrated.
T - bouldering on the board, felt a little stiff and skin sore before I started but it turned into a good session with more signs of progress. We were graced by the presence of guest cranker Adam Lincoln who thankfully didn't quite climb everything
W - furious resting as I realize I'm going to be able to squeeze in one more session at Harmers before 10 day US trip.
T - Harmers, skin sore from the start and slightly muggy but I finally work out how to the start (helped by finding a little new foothold) but can't quite put it together. More frustration but pleased to have it cracked. Leave in a state of high paranoia about it being done while I'm away.
F - fly to Philly
S - epic backyard party/picnic
S - nada of relevance to power club
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Gareth (peak info) apparently didn't get the results he would have liked from his plan, Andy Morris without saying the words didn't seem too positive about how his training went but appreciate he's had finger issues. I'm not judging Tom on that though, there's also lots of high profile cases (like yourself) where he's done a great job. I'm just trying to make sure that if i'm sacrificing all this time and effort (and not climbing) that I'm on the right path as I'm very aware that my fingers are extremely weak for the grade and when I've read some of your stuff (Alex) and seen the volume of finger strength work you've been doing along-side the endurance stuff, I want to make sure that I shouldn't be doing the same sort of thing.
Gonna throw my 10p's worth in here as i'm familiar with both Gareth and AJM (albeit from a distance):
- Gareth's goal was to on-sight continental f7c. Him and Naomi had a sprog in the middle of his training cycle, and then when we went out to Spain to deploy his fitness he had a minging cold - i wasn't in the least bit surprised he didn't perform. He also blew up his elbows going mad on the S&C - adding extra weight to exercises he felt easy
- Andy M changed his goals from being fit for continental style routes to going to Rocklands on honeymoon; pretty much diametrically opposed! He also screwed up a tendon pretty bad.
I've been on the "energy systems" path with Tom on and off for the last few years - going for systematic training over the winter and "just climbing" for the summer.
I've progressed massively;
Continental style; Solid f7b+ & occasional f7c on-sight to solid f7c+ & occasional f8a on-sight.
UK PE redpoint style; scrape up a few 8a (pretty much max in 2010) routes per summer to big volume of >f8a routes each year and max f8b/+
Boulders; gone from thinking short 7B and long 7C was living end to doing short 7C and a bunch of long 8A's
My big goal of climbing f8c still hasn't happened, but if i was realistic i should have listened to Tom from the outset and realised it was too much of a stretch and wasn't going to happen in one winter of training! (I feel like i'm finally on the cusp now if i can just get my ducks in a line and find a route that doesn't tweak my left ring finger, nor right shoulder too much!)
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Gonna throw my 10p's worth in here as i'm familiar with both Gareth and AJM (albeit from a distance):
- Andy M changed his goals from being fit for continental style routes to going to Rocklands on honeymoon; pretty much diametrically opposed! He also screwed up a tendon pretty bad.
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I'm not sure rocklands was ever a.major.change in training.focus - I was never planning.on a.continental sport climbing honeymoon, I was going to learn to kitesurf or something! I was going fairly well on the original plan, of a peak sometime this summer for local sport, until the finger went.
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Thanks everyone for their comments, I've had a reply back from Tom and it was as I suspected. It took me a while for it to click but from what I'm interpreting, he's trying to break my history of cycles of finger injuries (in the past I've had 2+ serious pulley injuries per year) and build on what I have instead.
It was difficult for me to see initially as my current goal is to get to 8a by mid-Aug but the training plan is a 6-month one and Tom is looking more at the big picture, rather than my arbitrary 2 months to 8a aspirations. It was really good talking to two others being trained by Randall last night at the crag (pure coincidence) and they've been working with Tom for 2 years and seen steady improvement. What I've tended to achieve under my own guidance (pretty much just doing what I feel like and climbing only) since starting is good improvements followed by serious pulley injuries.
I plan on climbing until I'm physically unable to, so it's got to be worth experimenting a bit. I'm certain that my finger injuries have been due to getting on stuff that my flexor muscles are strong enough for (for whatever reason) but my pulleys, ligaments, etc in my hand are just not used to the loads. I hope to progressively increase their strength in a more controlled environment (fingerboard I guess *sobs*) to stop this happening in the future but who knows what Tom will suggest.
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Oh and on vaguely related news, I got on The Free Monster at the WCJ cornice yesterday evening and it was hard to say for sure because it was fairly wet on key holds but it didn't really seem my style. I'm just not very good at yarding on good holds on really steep ground for a sustained length of time (though don't get me wrong, there are a few small holds at the start/crux).
Think I'd prefer stuff that's steadily steep, sort of powerplant(ish) or less. Still that's another checked out and scrubbed off the list.
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which hand's your injury on?
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Oh and on vaguely related news, I got on The Free Monster at the WCJ cornice yesterday evening and it was hard to say for sure because it was fairly wet on key holds but it didn't really seem my style. I'm just not very good at yarding on good holds on really steep ground for a sustained length of time (though don't get me wrong, there are a few small holds at the start/crux).
Think I'd prefer stuff that's steadily steep, sort of powerplant(ish) or less. Still that's another checked out and scrubbed off the list.
I kind of dont get this - do you want to climb something you find hard, or tick a number? 'Sustained length of time'? One sketches up a slab, stands on ones feet, does a 6Cish boulder to a massive rest, then heel-toes and kneebars ones way to the top, which must be an entire 6meters away?
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which hand's your injury on?
Well my left hand injury is about 6-7 months old but I haven't done a whole lot of half-crimping/crimping since and my right hand more recently has a niggle which flares up every now and then.
I kind of dont get this - do you want to climb something you find hard, or tick a number? 'Sustained length of time'? One sketches up a slab, stands on ones feet, does a 6Cish boulder to a massive rest, then heel-toes and kneebars ones way to the top, which must be an entire 6meters away?
I suppose a bit of both but if I'm going to commit many sessions on a single climb then I want to enjoy the climbing. I don't really like the style of climbing on Free Monster. Whilst I never got a chance to try the moves properly, the style of powerplant is far more appealing to me. Perhaps I'll go back at some point and see how hard you have to pull on the kneebar.
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Just an observation - if you really thought that Freemonster involved anything that might be called 'sustained', it rather suggests that Tom's programme for you is bang smack on the money.
I thought it was a boulder problem pure and simple - accordingly, my training focus is strength.
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Just an observation - if you really thought that Freemonster involved anything that might be called 'sustained', it rather suggests that Tom's programme for you is bang smack on the money.
+1
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Yeh, I probably described my assessment badly. I meant sustained after the crux, which is fairly low down. Which revolves around two small crimps. Not really what I'm looking for.
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Yeh, I probably described my assessment badly. I meant sustained after the crux, which is fairly low down. Which revolves around two small crimps. Not really what I'm looking for.
::) the whole thing is about 30 foot high. Trust Tom, stick with the programme, find a route you like. If you think they're all shit in the Peak (and you'd be right), go to Yorkshire (everyone else does!)
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Maybe give it a couple of weeks for the training effects to become apparent before trying any more otherwise you'll end up labeling them all inappropriate. Try something easier in the meantime, see how you get on with that, brachiation dance is about the easiest 7b+ around and a good yardstick for free monster, or stone the loach is a fairly bouldery and finger friendly 7c with a low crux (6Cish) and a bit of hanging on to finish.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
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Sneaking in late...
Spent less time at work this week, hurrah. Totally knackered from the past month or so however.
Mon: Rest.
Tues: Wall. Campus, short boulder.
Wedns: Rest.
Thurs: Rest.
Fri: Wall. Bouldering, mostly shouldery stuff.
Sat: Wall. More bouldering.
Sun: Wall. Short session - foot on campus / coffee drinking. DOMS from Friday.
This week -
Aim for 4x good RPs/day at the weekend.
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Do people think i should add more sets? ie do 3 sets of 8x1x1, increase the time on the board? i.e. 2 x 8 x 90sec x 90 sec or reduce the rest time more 2 x 8 x 1 x 30 sec.
Just did my first session on this exercise (my aim is to cram some fitness over the next 7 weeks, having been mainly bouldering/long boulder).
I did 2 sets of 1 minute on, 30 seconds off x 10 with a 10 minute rest between the two sets. Moved around slowly, including pausing/shaking out. About equal time across the 3 depths of rungs until the final 3 reps where I really struggled. Mega pumped at the end and felt like an incredibly time-efficient exercise. To me it feels like reducing the rest time will keep it as very high intensity AeroCap (plus reduce boredom threshold), whilst adding another set would help build up greater overall endurance? That's just what it 'feels' like having done it once.
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I have not managed to get climbing so far this week, just eating out and drinking so have not experimented. Alex kind of said the same as you that reducing the rest is the best option, this fits well with me in making the sessions nice an short as well. Will try that from next week.
Sounds like the general consensus is i need to climb slower as well. I dont move between rung types either but will do so, means you have to slow down to move your feet as well. Going to stick to 8 reps rather than 10 for now but try to do 3 sets. Even if i slow my rate down will be getting up to 700 ish moves.
Bizarrely i am quite excited about this.