UKBouldering.com
the shizzle => diet, training and injuries => Topic started by: cha1n on March 09, 2015, 08:20:15 pm
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I have the issue that my flexor muscles and tendons are pretty strong, I've been climbing approximately 5 years and have always kept the intensity high. No fingerboarding or training during this time but I've always climbed quite finger intensive problems, I've not been swinging around on jugs or anything.
The problem I have is that I can easily pull hard on stuff but my pulleys always give out, even when I'm not using a full crimp, but it happens quicker if I crimp with a thumb. I don't really know what to do. I'd happily drop the intensity and with a more structured fingerboard approach if there was some solid evidence that my pulleys would get stronger but otherwise, I'm worried of the strength loss I'd get dropping the intensity for a significant amount of time. Sometimes I can get away with week of pulling hard crimped/half-crimped, other times it takes a few sessions of pulling hard for my pulleys to get really sore and they always take months to feel better.
I suppose in the long run, it doesn't matter if my muscles and tendons are stronger than my pulleys if I'm going to get injured the second I pull too hard. It's like having a fast car that limited to 50mph, so frustrating.
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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's a duck. Stop climbing so much fingery stuff all the time? I can climb harder than I often do but I don't because it's not worth it. If this is a reoccuring problem then it's likely you'll end up with scar tissue that will take your max speed down to 40mph to use your analogy. Climb more open handed and try and vary your style more to give your body a bit of a rest? You don't have to drop the intensity, go climb some cave problems or something.
If you are getting reoccuring injuries it's a warning sign you need to change something!
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I can see why you would make that assumption but I've spent the last 3 years climbing mostly open-handed due to recurring pulley injuries. I can climb quite hard stuff open handed but it really restricts what you can climb and with limestone season looming I'm looking for a solution.
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You probably don't want to hear this, but both ligaments and tendons get stronger by doing high volume/low intensity training. Alas, they do not get stronger by high intensity (and therefore low volume) training.
This is one of two reasons that every sensible climber put in a block of basic preparation with high volume of climbing, even if they are only doing bouldering/short route.
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but both ligaments and tendons get stronger by doing high volume/low intensity training. Alas, they do not get stronger by high intensity (and therefore low volume) training.
Got any links to this? I've often wondered on how these things adapt but never spent much time trying to look into it..
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2 s of googling should turn up something. It is stated in pretty much every physiology text book with a slant towards training. Lots of research papers as well. Don't have time right now, get back to you on wednesday if you haven't found anything.
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Interesting jwi, I'll look into this. Most training stuff mentioned that ligaments and tendons strengthen slower than muscle (obviously) but had no idea that they don't respond well to high intensity. I was sacking off the time thing as 5 years seems sufficient to me for the pulleys to have got quite strong by now but they haven't.
Maybe a months of repeaters or something would help things along :thumbsdown:
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I googled 'strengthening tendons high volume low intensity'.
The first link I found suggested the best way to strengthen tendons was with high volume low intensity exercise, the second recommended low volume high intensity exercise and the third, and I'm not making this up, said: "...bodybuilding-style training, with repetitions and impact neither too high nor too low, may be the best approach stimulating the growth of tendons."
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When I got back into climbing hard c.6-7 years ago (or something like that) I tweaked my pulleys fairly regularly - but not had much trouble in the last couple of years despite trying harder and re-introducing the crimp into my arsenal (after several years of deliberately avoiding..).
My elbows start to twinge when I'm within a 5m radius of a campus board however....
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So as usual with biological science, nobody has a clue!
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So as usual with biological science, nobody has a clue!
What we really need is a young person to train steadily for climbing for 8 years, and sacrifice a finger every year so it can be dissected and the tendon strength tested properly.. Ideally several volunteers needed on several different training programs - plus repeats
:))
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So as usual with biological science, nobody has a clue!
What we really need is a young person to train steadily for climbing for 8 years, and sacrifice a finger every year so it can be dissected and the tendon strength tested properly.. Ideally several volunteers needed on several different training programs - plus repeats
:))
No, no, no.
We need identical quadruplets.
Training the different methods.
Possibly four sets of Quads.
Each set starting at different ages.
Ensuring of course that they all have the same variety of diets (down to individual meals) and......
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So as usual with biological science, nobody has a clue!
What we really need is a young person to train steadily for climbing for 8 years, and sacrifice a finger every year so it can be dissected and the tendon strength tested properly.. Ideally several volunteers needed on several different training programs - plus repeats
:))
No, no, no.
We need identical quadruplets.
Training the different methods.
Possibly four sets of Quads.
Each set starting at different ages.
Ensuring of course that they all have the same variety of diets (down to individual meals) and......
no no we need sets of dodecuplets so we have 3 repeats (maybe 4 sets for different ages etc.).
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This is why we should start cloning
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You could focus on crimping less and deliberately seeking out more balance to your climbing diet by getting into compression, slopers and steep cave-style probs, instead of just doing 'finger intensive problems' ...
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When I say finger intensive problems, I mean I climb on holds that would work finger strength, just to emphasise that my fingers should be strong.
I don't think I've climbed a hard crimpy problem for a year or more down to injuries.
This weekend I tried the terrace and Brad pit which are both crimpy on the right hand. Today a pulley on my right hand is sore. I don't find the moves on the problems that hard but I have to hold back how hard I pull because I know I'll get injured. I never had any pain in my right hand before the weekend!
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Regards finger injuries it's always worth baring in mind the basics (apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs). Warm up / down and rest a few mins between attempts, and if you catch the crimper badly or you foot slips don't try to bone it out but let go rest and try again. Looking back all of my finger injuries could have been prevented by following this basic advice.
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Any thoughts on glucosamine as a supplement to aid tendon healing?
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There is a video in the training for climbing thread with an italian sports doctor talking about campus board training concepts. He reiterates the high volume low or mid intensity line.
Im just a single data point but here's my anecdote: I hated low intensity when i started climbing(basically bouldering a lot or trying hard stuff when i did get outdoors) and was constantly having pulley issues anytime i got near a crimp.
Last year I got into trad and did 6 months of low/medium intensity stuff outdoors on lots of (fairly decent sized) crimps followed up by 6 months sport outdoors - Id say mid intensity on the fingers. I'm getting back into bouldering now and my fingers are now stronger and healthier than they've ever been.
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Any thoughts on glucosamine as a supplement to aid tendon healing?
I am a total sucker for anything with even marginal evidence of preventing finger injuries. I dump a large amount of money into placebos.
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I googled last night and couldn't find anything remotely conclusive looking on best intensity...
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I am a total sucker for anything with even marginal evidence of preventing finger injuries. I dump a large amount of money into placebos.
Here you go:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21117902 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21117902)
It's only conclusive if you are a rabbit though... :P
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So as usual with biological science, nobody has a clue!
Thats not true at all. For vast swathes of biology a lot is well established from the rigorous application of the reductionist scientific method. Molecular biology, membrane transportation, evolution by natural selection, neuron function, how muscles actually contract, I could go on and on and on the list is massive, just as it is with other areas of scientific research.
However, the money available to fund research into the optimal strategy for strengthening finger tendons is, I would suggest, not very large because across all of the aspects of biomedical research its a very low priority.
SCIENCE is a very good way of understanding the world around us but it doesn't automatically mean that absolutely every single aspect has been studied and researched in great detail and such knowledge will be readily available for the general public to ask on forums "Whats best?" and get in-depth answers that are unequivocal. In fact a lot of science is done precisely because there is uncertainty about how things work.
If you want to do some research yourself into what has been done with regards to strengthening tendons then I'd suggest starting with buying Dave MacLeods new book as he's spent a lot of time searching the literature and that will give you a good set of starting references to search for further literature. Use Google Scholar and PubMed to look up these papers and see what work they cite and also what subsequent work cites them. Read all of the papers in detail, making sure you understand not just the physiology but also the statistics, strengths and weaknesses of each study and synthesise a systematic review of evidence. The Cochrane Handbook (http://handbook.cochrane.org/) provides a good framework for conducting systematic reviews. Then share your findings here for others to benefit from, you could perhaps even look into writing it up for publication in a peer reviewed journal.
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Though I climb at a lower level than you I have spent years being limited not by finger strength but by finger injuries. I took me a very long time to understand this. I have spent the last year or so doing fingerboarding, but at a level intended to strengthen resistance to injury/soreness rather than to get stronger. Obvs I hope the latter will eventually take over. I didn't realise I was doing this when I started, rather I was commited to fingerboarding at a level that didn't produce niggles rather than fingerboard at a level I thought was appropriate for me based on what my mates could do.
I can hang half crimp with bodyweight on a medium campus rung for a while, but not without getting sore fingers after a bit.
I have been doing fingerboarded repeaters on a big rung with scales to take the weight off with the goal to be able to do all hangs and all sets with no soreness during the hang or afterwards. I am not talking about the ok soreness of " I have worked hard" but the specific sore spot in a finger type soreness.
People I climb with find it hard to believe that I fingerboard at such a low level but over time I have really noticed a decrease in finger soreness when climbing fingery problems. And the level I am comfortable at has increased. Slowly.
So, if finger injuries are holding you back, or fear of them, then worrying about losing strength is really missing the point. You are not getting the chance to fully apply this strength at the moment so what are you really going to lose?
Fingerboarding is good because you can be so precise in how you build up the loading.
A key thing for me is to have a varied range of goals so that when I slightly overdo it and feel a micro tweak I can back off and do something else, eg One armer training or what have you so that you can get your training fix without having to push on with the slightly tweaked bit...
I think you can still climb outside at what ever level you want when doing the remedial training but you have to keep backing off when ever you feel that "its not injured or even sore but it is trying to tell me something" feeling.
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What I would give to go back to when I first started climbing and didn't know what a finger injury was. When I used to pull at 100% and not give a second thought to the consequences. Good times.
Think I might start training endurance/power endurance and sack the bouldering season off then (for pulling hard at least). That should give my fingers a break and I'll see if this lower intensity stuff works for healing pulleys and report back.
Thanks for all of the replies.
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A warning - I find PE work the most susceptible to retweaking recovering injuries since
1. You lose form, twist into holds, dig in hard etc
2. You tend to repeat the same moves multiple times thus pull on the same holds repeatedly...
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Fwiw chain my experience is pretty similar to yours, i.e. endless finger tweaks though not just pulleys. My long-term strategy has been maintaining intensity while ensuring I rest much more than I used to, and generally being very aware of how I'm feeling when I train. This definitely works to some extent though I've had more tweaks since. I recently went to a physio who diagnosed me with terrible posture and shoulder stability issues and though that these were definitely contributing to my litany of injuries. I've been working hard on improving my scapular stability since with a variety of exercises. That was about 5 months ago and I haven't had any new tweaks since, not to imply that's conclusive obviously.
The trainingbeta podcast interview with Jared Vagy has some interesting info on antagonistic exercises for injury prevention if you can stand the interviewing style: https://www.trainingbeta.com/media/tbp-014-physical-therapist-jared-vagy-injury-prevention-treatment/ (https://www.trainingbeta.com/media/tbp-014-physical-therapist-jared-vagy-injury-prevention-treatment/)
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Thanks for the heads up Alex. Do you have any advice on pulley rehab that's worked for you?
Seems like it was a good job I brought my snooker cue up from Bristol as it sounds like I'm going to get bugger all climbing done!
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Thanks for the heads up Alex. Do you have any advice on pulley rehab that's worked for you?
Seems like it was a good job I brought my snooker cue up from Bristol as it sounds like I'm going to get bugger all climbing done!
Mixed/Ice climbing. Best pulley cure known to man!
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I'm afraid i can't resist posting yet again with a different slight on things. the below goes for most of the boulderers i have met.
I have had two or three audible pulley fails over 22 or so years of training hard, only one was gunshot loud, the other(s) sounded like i snapped the (plastic) hold off the wall. all of the above caused discolouration, major swelling etc. but i still have most of my pulleys.
My shit and basic advice is as follows:-
1. Are you sure you have had a string of pulley injuries, since if you have had, you wouldn't have a lot of pulley left?
2. Are you sure you have an injury, what led you to that diagnosis?
3. Do you do regular maintenance on your forearms, or even check them when your pulleys are hurty, to see if they (forearms) are the root cause? it is the forearms of the climber that are the only disproportianately strong part, the rest of us is shit weak compared to a gymnast, or any other bodyweight athlete, theuy require a lot of care and attention, unless you're made of titanium (or are a 21 year old, or are a machine like Nibs).
4. Check your forearms, loosen the tight parts, if pain/tenderness are gone in pulleys, then train like a badger and repeat.
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My shit and basic advice is as follows:-
1. Are you sure you have had a string of pulley injuries, since if you have had, you wouldn't have a lot of pulley left? Yes, definitely pulley injuries. I let the pulley heal over 3-9 months before resuming crimping again, presumably this is long enough for the tissues to regenerate?
2. Are you sure you have an injury, what led you to that diagnosis?
Acute pain in the A2 region of the finger when the PIP is flexed, nothing when open handed. My assumption is that the tear usually happens at the insertion point on the bone as it's usually worse off to one side. I've only ever had one audible pop and that was an out of the blue injury with no niggles before hand. The others have started off as niggles and I've pressed on and made them worse.
3. Do you do regular maintenance on your forearms, or even check them when your pulleys are hurty, to see if they (forearms) are the root cause? it is the forearms of the climber that are the only disproportianately strong part, the rest of us is shit weak compared to a gymnast, or any other bodyweight athlete, theuy require a lot of care and attention, unless you're made of titanium (or are a 21 year old, or are a machine like Nibs).
I don't generally get problems in my forearms. I used to get a popping sensation in tendon region of my forearms when pulling hard on middle 2 pockets (I settled on this being nodules sliding past tendon sheaths) but got around this by avoiding that grip type, I rarely have to use it. My front two are stronger anyway.
4. Check your forearms, loosen the tight parts, if pain/tenderness are gone in pulleys, then train like a badger and repeat.
I wouldn't mind some clarification from anyone who understands on this one. I don't really understand how forearm tightness could produce acute pain in the A2 region of my fingers.
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I posted elsewhere a link to a Meta study that fairly conclusively stated that strength training was the single most effective form of injury prevention. I think Slackers put it on the Wiki.
It was a sports wide study and not climbing specific, but given it's global nature I can't imagine this should be any different for fingers.
I've also been looking at the rate of increase issue and I've come to realise I've always ramped it up far too quickly. Looking at the IOC recommendations etc, a figure of 10% increase week on week, seems like an absolute maximum. Anymore means muscle development outstrips tendon/ligament conditioning leading to serious issues.
So if you do, say, 2 sets of repeaters, on each exercise, this week; then whack it up to three sets next week; you've blown right through that 10% increase all the way to 50%.
That was certainly what I would have done.
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There's been a lot of sense on this thread. I can't help with the best way to strengthen your pulleys but I do have an opinion on avoiding injury:
I too found that I was being limited(/was crippled) by finger injuries to the point at which I took a long break from climbing as I was fed up of not being able to try hard. Some point along the way I worked out why this had happened; I'd become a very one dimensional climber (something I'm still struggling to adjust to this day). Not only did I have a 'training' mindset but I'd completely stopped taking part in apsects of climbing other than bouldering (and training for that).
Cha1n - do you only boulder (and if so why)? OK, Peak Sport Climbing is essentially bouldery but less so and you'll be a lot less bored during the summer months if you were to partake (even consider the power of Easy TradTM). Your body would also get some well needed rest.
Finger injuries (for me) seem to fall into two categories:
1) Some kind of 'trauma' - a foot slipping, catching a hold very poorly/akwardly etc.
2) Overuse
and I think its useful to try and look at the patterns which cause these (if you're prone to niggles). My understanding is that the blood supply to tendons lags a long way behind their strength gains which themselves are far behind muscular gains. Thus, training in general is always going to carry a decent risk of hurting yourself (?). We may be sh*t weak compared to gymnasts, but their loads are going through bars and rings rather than A2s. If you take a look at some of the gory photographs in one move too many you'll see just how tiny A2s really are!
1 is harder to deal with/prevent and just requires common sense and an awareness of self-preservation at all times. Doing something indoors doesn't matter*
2 is a bit easier; note, increases in volume, increases in intensity even changes in training (venue perhaps) and try and make them as gradual as possible. Avoid throwing yourself at the same thing every session (it helps to have a few projects scattered around), especially when training.**
If you take a look at the Binney/Randall training stuff you'll see a wave pattern where every fourth week is lower intensity; do you do this? do your fingers ever actually get a break?
Maybe the above will slow you down a bit (it certainly did me) but I'd rather be climbing (in any form) than sat with my fingers in contrast baths.
** - I still make these mistakes even though sometimes they should be blindingly obvious.
* - unless it's a named board problem featured in a prominent cult climbing film
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I did have a stage for a few weeks where I was fingerboarding with 25kg of assistance and I was taking off 1kg per session (max of 3 per week). That was an attempt to rehab a different injured pulley (much worse than the one I tweaked this weekend). It seemed to be going well but I get so bored on a fb (no pun intended).
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4. Check your forearms, loosen the tight parts, if pain/tenderness are gone in pulleys, then train like a badger and repeat.
I wouldn't mind some clarification from anyone who understands on this one. I don't really understand how forearm tightness could produce acute pain in the A2 region of my fingers.
have a root around in your forearm with the other hand, does anything that you do cause the pain to increase/decrease in your pulley when you are doing it. flex and relax the forearm whilst applying preesure to different parts. just bloody try it instead of typing on this thread, if you find nothing interesting, then continue typing on this thread. oh, and be careful not to bruise your forearm whilst rootling around.
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It will never tire me to repeat that the fingerboard is THE tool to safely train the full crimp. As safely as possible, that is. Working in a controlled manner, loading progressively, loading fingers as evenly as possible, etc.
Far better than working a crimpy problem, with the risk of a foot slipping and a sudden load on the fingers, or joints rotations that change the angle of the pull.
If you want strong pulleys, put your boredom aside and slowly build them on a fingerboard.
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If you're sad enough like me then you can convince yourself that you are getting stronger because your fingerboarding is improving even if you are not getting any better at the wall. One day it will all transfer over!
I did my A2 from just hitting it too hard for too long. I had been climbing pretty well and getting better for a while and had just started climbing on a 50 degree board. It wasn't a sudden injury, it was overuse coupled with bloody mindedness.
I would also advocate trying to vary the stuff you climb and not fatiguing your pulleys by repeating the same movements / holds over and over. I have been nursing my A2 for just over 2 months and its getting near to being healed but I am still going to have to be nice to it for at least another 3-4 months before I will be happy its healed properly. In that time I have improved in spite of having to avoid too much crimping so its not necessarily a bad thing having to focus on other styles of climbing.
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I do sport climb as well but I missed the last sport season. I do generally treat sport as bouldering on a rope though and usually just redpoint short power endurance routes. My last 'route' was a fingery 7c+ in Cheddar which caused one of my last serious pulley injuries but it did siege it for 5 sessions in close succession.
I'm keen to get into trad, though slightly concerned as pulling on the grit in the sun on the weekend was hard enough in these temps so not sure how possible it'll be in the summer!
I suppose I don't really give my body a rest. I usually climb hard every session, with the occasional lower intensity one if a new lower grade circuit goes up at the works, so not THAT often. As you say, route season usually gives me a rest to a certain extent. I used to do a lot of volume in the low 7's on routes but I fear there may not be a lot of that up this way?
I think for now I'm going to stop trying to get big numbers (for me) this winter and concentrate on volume at a medium intensity and see how my fingers feel next winter. It suddenly occurred to me that if I wanted to try and get a 8A before i'm 30 that I've only got until mid August to do so and hoped I could get something done on limestone as the grit is going to be too warm soon.
Appreciate everyone's comments on this subject.
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I'm keen to get into trad, though slightly concerned as pulling on the grit in the sun on the weekend was hard enough in these temps so not sure how possible it'll be in the summer!
off topic but as spring arrives lime, mountain and seacliff trad can be one of life's lingering joys at pulley friendly grades
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the grit is going to be too warm soon.
:lol: You've obviously never heard of Toru Nakajima's amazing summer on the grit!
Meshuga, E9 6c, Black rocks, climbed in a slight drizzle
Nocturnal emission, E9 6c
Black out, E9 6c, Burbage south, first ascent, solo
Simba's pride, E8 6b, Burbage south, solo
Elm street, E8 6c, Millstone, solo
Brad Pitt, 7C+, Stanage, Flash
He was 15.
Source (http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67672)
Toru Nakajima - new E9 on Gritstone on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/31425502)
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If you take a look at the Binney/Randall training stuff you'll see a wave pattern where every fourth week is lower intensity; do you do this? do your fingers ever actually get a break?
Where could I find this?
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here (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=15394.100)
Shark posted about it on his blog:
http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=15394.100 (http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=15394.100)
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Also See here: http://ukbouldering.com/media/pdf/principlestraining.pdf (http://ukbouldering.com/media/pdf/principlestraining.pdf) - pages 2-4
and here: http://ukbouldering.com/media/pdf/periodisation.pdf (http://ukbouldering.com/media/pdf/periodisation.pdf) page 3
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Thanks guys! :2thumbsup:
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I'd start factoring rest and lower intensity sessions in your plans, otherwise you'r set to self-destruct!
off topic but as spring arrives lime, mountain and seacliff trad can be one of life's lingering joys at pulley friendly grades
See above, trad doesn't have to mean grit (even if you want to stay local) and if you haven't climbed the classics at the likes of Chee Tor and High Tor then you're missing out.
There's also plenty of (good) sport in the low 7s, especially if Cheedale Cornice dries out.
Essentially what Pete said, on a much much wider scale!
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I googled last night and couldn't find anything remotely conclusive looking on best intensity...
Try a course with them: https://www.bloso.be/Pages/Home.aspx (https://www.bloso.be/Pages/Home.aspx) Trainer A or even B/Sportklimmen should do. But with your training experience, it would just be silly. But there, most trainers seem to agree. Is it science. NO. It is just the small subset of people who practice it, and seem to get results with it. It's also the advice and common sense of the "big books" e.g. the Andersons: Lots of repetitions, less intensity, when the tendons are weak because (and there you can find enough medical information), beacuse they take more time to develop strength than muscle (my personal experience too). Why risk injury with weak tendons/ligaments with heavy intensity, and not just build it up.
To the point. Indeed online, there is not much to find about it, but the statement of jwi has been used for a while by trainers and instructors, and in practice, I've heard of lots of people and experienced for myself it works. Does that mean it is the only theory and works for everybody? Don't think so. I you know that Dave Graham climbed something like 8a or more after just one year (wikipedia). He might have been genetically gifted? Not every bodybuilder who uses the professional training methods actually becomes Mr. Olympia.
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OK, lets stop for a second. Tendons respond somewhat differently to training, and the general consensus seems to be that one of the reasons tendoms recover slower is due to lower blood flow. As such, it seems to me that increasing blood flow is the functional aspect that helps tendons recover at a closer pace to the muscles, hence the need for periods of lower intensity(higher blood flow, lower stress) to allow the tendons to catch up. If you look, you'll see many training programs with a low volume of high intensity work, combined with a high volume of low intensity work. This inherently makes sense to me, as you're using the low intensity work as active recovery to improve the recovery of the tendons. None of this moderate intensity at all.
In my experience the "moderate intensity" is the bane of healthy strength. And this is the most common form of climbing you see. People climbing stuff they can do in a few goes or a short session, and doing it day after day because they can and they're addicted to climbing. As a youth, or even in your 20's, your body can recover from this much better. as you get a bit older, it'll stop doing so.
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Thanks for the heads up Alex. Do you have any advice on pulley rehab that's worked for you?
As has been mentioned, fingerboarding is always the safest, both in initial stages (very easy to be strict open handing) and rehab stages (to break half-crimp and crimp back in and then strengthen it). Sometimes shit just takes a long time. I'm only just getting back to full crimping after 18 months of being injured; it sucks, but it happens. I've missed 2 full seasons of British sport over the last 5 seasons due to being out through finger issues, you just have to find ways to work around it (usually means training for a trip to somewhere with big holds for me!)
RE: trad - grit trad is the poor man's trad. Don't worry about temps going up for trad, embrace it because it means you can climb on proper routes!
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J.B. should be along anytime now . . .
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3. Do you do regular maintenance on your forearms, or even check them when your pulleys are hurty, to see if they (forearms) are the root cause? it is the forearms of the climber that are the only disproportianately strong part, the rest of us is shit weak compared to a gymnast, or any other bodyweight athlete, theuy require a lot of care and attention, unless you're made of titanium (or are a 21 year old, or are a machine like Nibs).
^^^^^^ <<<< This!
Get some accupressure rings from ebay or something, whether its placebo or not I find they speed up recovery from finger soreness brilliantly. Also just the general health from shoulder to tips has been improved from regular massage. You kind of sound like you are at a loose end and self-massage is free (I would buy a lacrosse ball or something similar and get stuck in)
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obviously, any type of strength training cannot be high volume (compared to climbing) and it is also (extremely repetitive compared to climbing), so it may not be the best source for your googling efforts.
Strength endurance training is not the best for improving tendons, obviously.
We know a lot about the tendons of dead rats.
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I just saw a physio about an unrelated shoulder issue and noticed the exercise form he gave me had a link to a pdf with pulley rehab in the name and here it is:
http://919clinic.co.uk/Downloads/pulley%20rehab.pdf (http://919clinic.co.uk/Downloads/pulley%20rehab.pdf)
Haven't read it yet but will do later. Hopefully it contains useful information.
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Is this in line with Dave MacLeods recommendations in his new book?
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Is this in line with Dave MacLeods recommendations in his new book?
Pretty much. Dave goes into a little more detail in a few areas but essentially they are advocating the same recovery strategy.
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Thanks :beer2:
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I just saw a physio about an unrelated shoulder issue and noticed the exercise form he gave me had a link to a pdf with pulley rehab in the name and here it is:
http://919clinic.co.uk/Downloads/pulley%20rehab.pdf (http://919clinic.co.uk/Downloads/pulley%20rehab.pdf)
Haven't read it yet but will do later. Hopefully it contains useful information.
I've always though(/found) that the timescales quoted in that PDF are very optimistic, is this just me?
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I just saw a physio about an unrelated shoulder issue and noticed the exercise form he gave me had a link to a pdf with pulley rehab in the name and here it is:
http://919clinic.co.uk/Downloads/pulley%20rehab.pdf (http://919clinic.co.uk/Downloads/pulley%20rehab.pdf)
Haven't read it yet but will do later. Hopefully it contains useful information.
I've always though(/found) that the timescales quoted in that PDF are very optimistic, is this just me?
The timescales in that are super optimistic if you have done more than the most minor damage to it. Mine isn't a particularly bad one at all but I'm just over 2 months into my recovery and its not close to being 100%. I can use it at about 90% I reckon but nothing that is dynamically loading it and nothing where I really have to bear down on a small crimp.
If you don't have any setbacks I would be amazed as well. 4 weeks to competing in competitions is just laughable though. I don't think that there is any chance that the person he is referring to had a partial tear at all.
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My A4 tear took 8 months and I think I did a good job of rehabbing that one (for reference).
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What's the word for an injury to a pulley that doesn't result in a tear? Last year I did a huge powerful move pulling from a middle finger mono and felt the classic 'twang/pop' and streak of pain/lightning shoot from finger to elbow, as well as swelling, and had to stop the session there, but within 2 weeks I was back to 100% strength no problem. :ninja:
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What's the word for an injury to a pulley that doesn't result in a tear? Last year I did a huge powerful move pulling from a middle finger mono and felt the classic 'twang/pop' and streak of pain/lightning shoot from finger to elbow, as well as swelling, and had to stop the session there, but within 2 weeks I was back to 100% strength no problem. :ninja:
Pain from finger to elbow sounds much more like a tendon strain than a pulley strain to me. :shrug:
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What's the word for an injury to a pulley that doesn't result in a tear?
Fortunate.
I find it strange that what people do outside of climbing never seems to get a mention in threads like this. Personally, my fingers get used far more at work than they do climbing and whilst that may be with less intensity - it's made a considerable difference to how strong/weak they are in general.
If I spend a day sanding down, then basically, my fingers are in the crimp position for hours on end and it'd seem daft to me, to then try and pull on crimps that evenin., Thirty odd years of using a paint brush have left me with really strong middle fingers but only on the thumb side, which is why I can do mono pullups but the way I hold a brush has also led to having weak index fingers. My back three are as strong as my front three for the same reason.
The only finger injuries I've had have been collateral ones - from a foot slip basically.
All the other stuff we do comes into play but often gets ignored and finger issues get examined within the small sphere of their climbing application. Maybe the troubles start elsewhere...
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:D nice post Kelvin.. I can see it now at the London bouldering walls - after Yoga a sanding and painting session :)
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Maybe that's why the Beastmaker lads have fingers of steel... nowt to do with fingerboarding ;)
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What some other guy putting a piece of wood on a lathe and then a woman using a Dremmel makes their fingers strong? :-\
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You have to vacuum the romance out of everything don't you.
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Dremmels are cheating - it'd be like Nibs taking weight off :o
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Lathe?
You sure?
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:D nice post Kelvin.. I can see it now at the London bouldering walls - after Yoga a sanding and painting session :)
Karate Kid - Wax on Wax off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fULNUr0rvEc#)
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My bad, cnc turning machine :ras:
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:wave:
What some other guy putting a piece of wood on a lathe and then a woman using a Dremmel makes their fingers strong? :-\
It works like those tens type machines that vibrate you strong. ;)